Offseason Predictions for the San Francisco Giants: The Lineup
Brian Sabean sat down with some of the local media yesterday, and he said about 6,230 things that are worthy of some sort of reaction. I'll start with the point that will shape the context of the entire offseason:
So that leaves 1B, SS, C, LF, CF, and RF as "filled" positions. Sure, if the price for Mark Teixeira suddenly drops from exorbitant to merely crazy crap expensive, maybe all bets are off. And there's an outside chance that Sabean could be blown away with an offer for Bengie Molina, which could give Sandoval a chance at the starting catcher's job, even if that sure doesn't sound like Sabean. All things being equal, though, the Giants are looking to find starters at second base and third base.
They have a host of options at second base, much in the same way that "Band-Aid", "sucking on it", and "hoping it will go away" are a host of options for a wound caused by blunt-force trauma. Maybe one of them could work out...but an unnamed backup plan will probably be the best option. If the Giants were to obtain a legitimate second baseman -- Henry Schulman mentions Dan Uggla -- I doubt there will be too many objections raised about the Giants blocking Kevin Frandsen or Eugenio Velez.
There aren't any palatable internal options for third base at all. Maybe if Sabean trusted Sandoval at the position full-time, things would be different. I would never blame him for not trusting Sandoval at the hot corner, though.
The free-agent market is mostly barren for both positions, and there's also a relevant quote from Sabean on this point:
Maybe the thought of a 35-year-old Casey Blake clonking around excites you. Somehow, I doubt that very much. And the disintegration of Joe Crede has to have turned off even the most ardent of Credeophiles. Free agency is almost a total bust for the Giants' lineup needs this offseason. If the Giants are looking to trade for a third baseman, one has to wonder how many of these guys are realistic trade options. It doesn't seem like a whole bunch would be on the market.
Few free agent options. A need for power. Two open positions, at least. My guess as to what the Giants will do, presented with little comment:
Angel Villalona and Henry Sosa for Dan Uggla
Nate Schierholtz and Eugenio Velez for Adrian Beltre
Two trades with minimal impact on the present, both shoring up different lineup holes. I think this site would burn to the concrete slab underneath if both of those trades were to go through -- especially when Seattle announces they're going to try Schierholtz as a third baseman -- but, again, I'm not advocating. I'm just predicting.
Comment starter: Your predictions on what Sabean will do. Both optimism and pessimism are encouraged.
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I don't know if I make that trade...
I’m in 2011 and although Angel Villalona is still toiling away in San Jose, Henry Sosa is becoming a cornerstone of the rotation and Dan Uggla’s performance really dropped off the table.
Also Nate Schierholtz is outperforming Adrian Beltre so far, and while Beltre is going down Schierholtz is going up. Velez…he’s gone now. (And how about Seattle locking Beltre up for an extra 4 years at 20.5 million a pop!)
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 2:29 PM PDT 0 recs
While you’re there in 2011, can you tell me if Mrs. Goofus got fat?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
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Well...
I’m not supposed to say anything, but the most important thing is, enjoy your left testicle now.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT
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I would have no problem with trading Nate & Velez for Beltre. I don’t either one of those guys is going to have a lsting impact on the Giants future. I would consider them expendable pieces….definitely worth getting a viable major leaguer at a black hole of a position for the Giants.
Not in favor of of the other proposed trade at all. Too much potential for a guy like Uggla.
All that being said, I don’t think Sabean gets anything worthwhile done via trade in the offseason. I have no confidence in Sabean’s ability not to get hosed again.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on Sep 30, 2008 2:40 PM PDT 0 recs
I agree with everything in this comment.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 2:41 PM PDT
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Also
Check this out:
Something you probably didn’t know might explain why Beltre’s defense is so good. He never wears a protective cup.
“I never felt comfortable wearing a cup,” the third baseman said. “I tried when I signed, but I couldn’t use it. I didn’t feel comfortable at all. I couldn’t run, I couldn’t move.”
Say a little prayer for the man.
GAMER
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM PDT
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Adrian “Iron Balls” Beltre
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
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First I say that up there..
Now you go and make an “Iron Balls” joke. Great timing.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT
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Did I ever tell you I worked at the factory that made “Tickle Me Elmo” dolls?
It was my job to give each doll a couple of test tickles before we shipped it out.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 4:57 PM PDT
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Are you at all serious?
I mean just about the working part. Because that would increase your creepiness by 1276-fold.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 6:22 PM PDT
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I think he loses some competitive advantage by “exposing” this kind of information.
by out machine on
Sep 30, 2008 4:09 PM PDT
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shoot, then why not trade timmy for beltre
beltre had one good year in his entire career
what is the love affair with this guy?
by bacci40 on
Oct 1, 2008 12:30 AM PDT
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I wouldn’t say people are in love with Beltre, but he happens to be a good fit for this team. He gives the lineup a legitimate power bat and provides excellent defense. He’d a fill a position that’s weak in the organization beyond the low low minors. He’s not the greatest 3B, but he’s a realistic target for a trade.
by Natto on
Oct 1, 2008 12:35 AM PDT
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3B-some power, great glove, somewhat expendable
Can we trade for that Feliz guy on the Phillies?
by sam23 on
Oct 1, 2008 9:08 PM PDT
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I know I don't make those trades
Too much to give up for one year of Beltre. Maybe if they pick up his salary.
No way on the Uggla trade. He’s going to get expensive and Angel & Sosa have a ton of potential.
It’s funny, I was willing to give Sabean the ‘09 season since our rebuilding has been going fairly well so far. But then I read the Chron today and kept thing to myself “Uh oh”. I don’t like Sabean making decisions on trades. He undervalues young talent and overvalues veteran players. That is about the worst combination I can think of. Which means those trades are somewhat believable scenarios from Sabean.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 30, 2008 2:43 PM PDT 0 recs
You just don’t want to trade Villalona because your name would become more obsolete than “WaitingForBoof”
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 3:33 PM PDT
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What is the word of the Marlins Stadium? Hitters park? Neutral? Just curious cause I’d hate to see Uggla or Cantu walk in here and turn into Aaron Rowand… He of park inflated home run numbers.
by dogdays on Sep 30, 2008 3:02 PM PDT 0 recs
terrible hitter's park
Pro Player is a worse hitter’s park than AT&T
by Dickdrivethiscar on
Sep 30, 2008 3:13 PM PDT
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Overall pitcher’s park, but I think it actually plays differently at different times of the year.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on
Sep 30, 2008 3:14 PM PDT
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Jonathan Sanchez for Garret Atkins, anyone?
The Rockies need pitchers and we need a third baseman with power. Huge red flag: Atkins’ home/road splits are brutal, even by Colorado standards.
I’m not saying I’d make this trade, but I could see Sabean pulling the trigger on it.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT 0 recs
then why not offer to the Red for EE? or the Royals for Teahen and move him back to third?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on
Sep 30, 2008 3:09 PM PDT
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Teahen is not worth Sanchez
he’s only had 1 good year and 2 straight poor ones. But perhaps a move back to 3b would help him mentally. As a lefty, his power would be even worse in AT&T.
But what about a Nate for Teahen swap?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on
Sep 30, 2008 9:23 PM PDT
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Nate would be reasonible from my end. but I have feeling the Royals need arms more then outfielders.
As for why Teahen he did not seem to play him self out of 3rd as much a Gordon just out played him. His glove is solid there unlike EE. It seems they have been looking for a home for Teahen ever since. And the Royals home park is not easy on the left handed power numbers either ( according to first inning +007 2b, -.005 3b -.010 Hrs VS Mays Field of +.014 2b, +.012 3b, -.010 HR ) so Teahen’s batting numbers are less likely to drop after the adjustment period.
I am not in love with the idea but it looks like a sound bet compared to most of the other options for third an no long term contract or strengthening a division rival needed.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on
Oct 1, 2008 8:52 AM PDT
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Rocks won’t trade Atkins to the Giants. And with Helton’s future in doubt, Atkins fits nicely as a 1b and lets Stewart play 3rd.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on
Sep 30, 2008 9:26 PM PDT
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Third base seems like kind of a wasteland in MLB right now.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 30, 2008 3:18 PM PDT 0 recs
3B wasteland, oh yeah, it’s only 3B wasteland
They’re all wasted!
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 3:34 PM PDT
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So am I!
Three Cheers for being wasted!
….wait i gotta take a drink first.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT
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I was at a Pearl Jam show in '93 at the Greek Theater in Berkeley
Telling my friend that he needed to start listening to the Who, and that they had this awesome song with electric violin and shit, and all the sudden, they covered it! They’ve actually covered it many times since, but that was amazing (except for the small portion where Stone Gossard butchered the vocals- leave that to Ed, please!!!)
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
Oct 1, 2008 10:41 AM PDT
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Nate + Velez for Beltre?
“In a heartbeat” is my first reaction. How many years is Beltre under control for?
Also, this should go in your clip reel:
They have a host of options at second base, much in the same way that “Band-Aid”, “sucking on it”, and “hoping it will go away” are a host of options for a wound caused by blunt-force trauma.
So much win.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 3:26 PM PDT 0 recs
also
I am a Credeophobe.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
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So
Your plan is to go with a 35 year old Right Fielder, for whom you have a 25 year old virtual photo copy, with potentially more power and slight drop in defense? I get the whole Randy Winn MVP thing, but why not trade Rowand for Beltre, and keep Winn and Nate then?
Would you trade Rowand+whichever insignificant player for a 3b?
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on
Sep 30, 2008 4:06 PM PDT
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If my 35-yo right fielder is Randy Winn, then hell yes I play him there next year.
Nate =/= Randy Winn. That’s crazy talk.
I’d trade Rowand in a heartbeat if I thought someone would take him, and the Giants wouldn’t have to pay his salary.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 30, 2008 4:10 PM PDT
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I’m not going to prove with stats which one is better or not, I know Randy’s better. Right now. But what about in 2 years? 3? Nate’s numbers should go up, and especially when he has more than 112 ABs in a season.
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on
Sep 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT
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Right, there’s not enough data yet to really interpolate what kind of player Nate is or can be. Over the course of his career, though, I suspect he won’t be as good a player as Winn is. Hopefully (if we keep him) he’ll prove me wrong.
Let’s trade Rowand instead! ;-)
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 30, 2008 4:19 PM PDT
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Yes
At least we agree on one thing! See, I reached across the aisle.
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on
Sep 30, 2008 5:08 PM PDT
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Sadly, Beltre is only under control for 2009. I’d be ok with trading for him, as long as we didn’t give up much since he’ll definitely hit the free agent market with Boras as his agent.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Sep 30, 2008 6:42 PM PDT
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But that brings up another good point: Remember Beltre’s last contract season?
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on
Oct 1, 2008 6:49 AM PDT
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No Way Jose
Beltre is basically Feliz+ at this stage of his career, now that he’s not on roids anymore. What has he done in the last 3 years that leads us to believed he’ll bring us to the promised land?
Uggla can take his 170 strikeouts somewhere else. I think he’s a sell high candidate.
by JesseSeg on Sep 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT 0 recs
A couple of months ago, somone else said Beltre is basically Feliz and my head exploded. I’d just put the last pieces of brain tissue and skull fragments back and was sewing up my scalp…and BOOM
The last three years, Beltre has averaged 29 points more OPS+ than Feliz. 29. Twenty-nine.
Say what you want about not wanting Beltre, but saying he’s “bascially Feliz” is neither fair nor is it grounded in rational thought.
29!
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on
Sep 30, 2008 3:41 PM PDT
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29 at best.
At Best!!!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on
Sep 30, 2008 3:53 PM PDT
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Career numbers:
Feliz: .252/.290/.429, 84 OPS+.
Beltre: .271/.327/.459, 109 OPS+.
Feliz’s defense is better, but there’s no way that makes up for the difference in offense.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT
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Pilling on but no spearing … this time!
Plus Beltre has had a twice as many P.A’s in park the absolutely kills( 1263 P.A’s for a .253/309/414 avg /obp/slg in Safceo vs. career line of 271/327/459) his numbers then the in his break out ‘04 year (651 P.A‘s for 334/388/629). So if anything his batting numbers are currently deflated.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on
Oct 1, 2008 9:06 AM PDT
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Someone needs to just make a permanent website..
www.adrianbeltreisnotpedrofeliz.com
We can all just point people to that website.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 3:57 PM PDT
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Where’s that TimLincecum.com guy?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
Sep 30, 2008 4:43 PM PDT
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LOL no matter how many times people say it, Adrian Beltre is not just a better Pedro Feliz. Unless you mean “significantly better, like waaaaay better.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
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Feliz is basically a league average 3B
Beltre is “league average plus.”
I know this site is reluctant to accept it, but the Phillies’ signing of Feliz for the money they’re paying him was an outright heist. They might not make the playoffs if they’re still running the jank out there that they were playing last season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Sep 30, 2008 7:20 PM PDT
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I think in few more years Pedro will be remembered much more fondly. Its not his fault the team was asking him to try and be a hart of the order bat when it was obvious he did not have the skills for it. I think most here know that but the frustration level is still too high . It needs to wear down some more.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on
Oct 1, 2008 9:11 AM PDT
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I love Pedro
As a person and as a fielder. As a hitter his .290 career OBP leaves me quite cold. He did improve that to .302 this season, but his SLG dropped to only .402. Pedro helps his team in the field, but hurts it at the plate.
TOO MANY OUTS!
by sharksrog on
Oct 1, 2008 9:28 PM PDT
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Overall he is pretty much average, maybe slightly below average. But man, was it painfull to watch him hit.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM PDT
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I am wholeheartedly on board for both those trades, with certain caveats. And I’m a big Villalona fan. Put it this way: Get Uggla. Get as much as you can out of him. Take the draft picks when he leaves for free agency. Get Beltre. Sign him to the same contract he’s on, extending him to a point where he can get one more deal before retirement. You’ll have a top five 2B (even with the awful D) and a top five 3B.
Beltre is the fabulously wealthy man’s Pedro Feliz. He’s the middle class Scott Rolen. I could go on. In any event, he fits Sabean’s defense-first tunnel vision, but he’s a legitimately good hitter to boot. USSMariner explains it in more depth, but I put Beltre behind ARod, Wright, Longoria, Chipper, and maybe Guillen and Zimmerman among MLB 3B, considering his hitting plus defense.
Uggla is a different discussion. I’d love to relive Jeff Kent circa 1999, but given the choice between the two, because of Rowand/Zito killing our budget, I take Beltre.
by David Arnott on Sep 30, 2008 3:48 PM PDT 1 recs
And now I realize that “wholeheartedly on board for both those trades, with certain caveats” is a contradiction. Sort of.
I’m on board. With caveats.
by David Arnott on
Sep 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT
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You always make sense..
50% of the time.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on
Sep 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT
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You're only saying that because we happen to have 5 fingers on each hand.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on
Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
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+1!!1!!!
I for one will no longer submit to the tyranny of the 100% special interests.
From now on, 138% = the whole.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT
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Scott Munter
83% of the time, he gets a ground ball 138% of the time.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
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Aaron Rowand gives 148%
The 8.468372% of the time that he’s not nursing a nagging injury.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on
Sep 30, 2008 4:10 PM PDT
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Hey, you write a blog about a basketball team that tried to eliminate its radio broadcasts. You’re excused for not fully committing to something.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on
Sep 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT
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Belting out Beltre?
Brian Sabean said the Giants weren’t interested in anyone with just a single year left on his contract. Wouldn’t that rule out Beltre, who IMO is Pedro Feliz with more power, anyway?
Uggla is younger, so he might be a possibility.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT 0 recs
//shields self from flying Goofus skull fragments
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT
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Uggla is younger, so he might be a possibility.
ahem. Sabean.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on
Sep 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
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The future
Brian definitely appears to have his focus on the future, with the desire to sign free agents and possibly make deals that help the present but also aid the future.
by sharksrog on
Oct 1, 2008 9:29 PM PDT
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Adrian Beltre is Pedro Feliz with more power. And a better BA. And More BB’s. And better base running. So basically he’s Pedro Feliz, only a lot better at playing baseball. Also, Beltre is only 11 months older than Uggla.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT
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Negative. He’s fairly compensated for his services.
I’ve got him down as 3.7 wins above replacement which is worth about $16M on the free agent market. He’s costing the Mariners $12M this year and next. He’s a good deal for his current salary. He’s a league average or slightly better hitter that played the best defense in the majors this year at third base.
Just wondering why you think he’s overpriced?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 2, 2008 7:10 AM PDT
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Beat me to it
Brian Sabean said the Giants weren’t interested in anyone with just a single year left on his contract. Wouldn’t that rule out Beltre, who IMO is Pedro Feliz with more power, anyway?
Read this this morning, and Beltre immediately came to mind. Of course, Sabean could just be blowing smoke, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m no Beltre fan, either. I’d rather see what Nate can do, as the OF situation below the big leagues isn’t pretty.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on
Sep 30, 2008 4:27 PM PDT
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The 3B situation is worse.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Sep 30, 2008 4:36 PM PDT
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I don't know
Third base. My sense is that the two players who play the hot corner the most for the Giants next season will be Rich Aurilia and Pablo Sandoval.


