Offseason Predictions for the San Francisco Giants: The Lineup
by Grant on Sep 30, 2008 2:20 PM PDT
147 comments
Brian Sabean sat down with some of the local media yesterday, and he said about 6,230 things that are worthy of some sort of reaction. I'll start with the point that will shape the context of the entire offseason:
So that leaves 1B, SS, C, LF, CF, and RF as "filled" positions. Sure, if the price for Mark Teixeira suddenly drops from exorbitant to merely crazy crap expensive, maybe all bets are off. And there's an outside chance that Sabean could be blown away with an offer for Bengie Molina, which could give Sandoval a chance at the starting catcher's job, even if that sure doesn't sound like Sabean. All things being equal, though, the Giants are looking to find starters at second base and third base.
They have a host of options at second base, much in the same way that "Band-Aid", "sucking on it", and "hoping it will go away" are a host of options for a wound caused by blunt-force trauma. Maybe one of them could work out...but an unnamed backup plan will probably be the best option. If the Giants were to obtain a legitimate second baseman -- Henry Schulman mentions Dan Uggla -- I doubt there will be too many objections raised about the Giants blocking Kevin Frandsen or Eugenio Velez.
There aren't any palatable internal options for third base at all. Maybe if Sabean trusted Sandoval at the position full-time, things would be different. I would never blame him for not trusting Sandoval at the hot corner, though.
The free-agent market is mostly barren for both positions, and there's also a relevant quote from Sabean on this point:
Maybe the thought of a 35-year-old Casey Blake clonking around excites you. Somehow, I doubt that very much. And the disintegration of Joe Crede has to have turned off even the most ardent of Credeophiles. Free agency is almost a total bust for the Giants' lineup needs this offseason. If the Giants are looking to trade for a third baseman, one has to wonder how many of these guys are realistic trade options. It doesn't seem like a whole bunch would be on the market.
Few free agent options. A need for power. Two open positions, at least. My guess as to what the Giants will do, presented with little comment:
Angel Villalona and Henry Sosa for Dan Uggla
Nate Schierholtz and Eugenio Velez for Adrian Beltre
Two trades with minimal impact on the present, both shoring up different lineup holes. I think this site would burn to the concrete slab underneath if both of those trades were to go through -- especially when Seattle announces they're going to try Schierholtz as a third baseman -- but, again, I'm not advocating. I'm just predicting.
Comment starter: Your predictions on what Sabean will do. Both optimism and pessimism are encouraged.
0 recs |
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I don't know if I make that trade...
I’m in 2011 and although Angel Villalona is still toiling away in San Jose, Henry Sosa is becoming a cornerstone of the rotation and Dan Uggla’s performance really dropped off the table.
Also Nate Schierholtz is outperforming Adrian Beltre so far, and while Beltre is going down Schierholtz is going up. Velez…he’s gone now. (And how about Seattle locking Beltre up for an extra 4 years at 20.5 million a pop!)
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
While you’re there in 2011, can you tell me if Mrs. Goofus got fat?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I’m not supposed to say anything, but the most important thing is, enjoy your left testicle now.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have no problem with trading Nate & Velez for Beltre. I don’t either one of those guys is going to have a lsting impact on the Giants future. I would consider them expendable pieces….definitely worth getting a viable major leaguer at a black hole of a position for the Giants.
Not in favor of of the other proposed trade at all. Too much potential for a guy like Uggla.
All that being said, I don’t think Sabean gets anything worthwhile done via trade in the offseason. I have no confidence in Sabean’s ability not to get hosed again.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on Sep 30, 2008 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything in this comment.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Check this out:
Something you probably didn’t know might explain why Beltre’s defense is so good. He never wears a protective cup.
“I never felt comfortable wearing a cup,” the third baseman said. “I tried when I signed, but I couldn’t use it. I didn’t feel comfortable at all. I couldn’t run, I couldn’t move.”
Say a little prayer for the man.
GAMER
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adrian “Iron Balls” Beltre
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First I say that up there..
Now you go and make an “Iron Balls” joke. Great timing.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I ever tell you I worked at the factory that made “Tickle Me Elmo” dolls?
It was my job to give each doll a couple of test tickles before we shipped it out.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you at all serious?
I mean just about the working part. Because that would increase your creepiness by 1276-fold.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he loses some competitive advantage by “exposing” this kind of information.
by out machine on Sep 30, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
shoot, then why not trade timmy for beltre
beltre had one good year in his entire career
what is the love affair with this guy?
by bacci40 on Oct 1, 2008 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say people are in love with Beltre, but he happens to be a good fit for this team. He gives the lineup a legitimate power bat and provides excellent defense. He’d a fill a position that’s weak in the organization beyond the low low minors. He’s not the greatest 3B, but he’s a realistic target for a trade.
by Natto on Oct 1, 2008 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3B-some power, great glove, somewhat expendable
Can we trade for that Feliz guy on the Phillies?
by sam23 on Oct 1, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I don't make those trades
Too much to give up for one year of Beltre. Maybe if they pick up his salary.
No way on the Uggla trade. He’s going to get expensive and Angel & Sosa have a ton of potential.
It’s funny, I was willing to give Sabean the ‘09 season since our rebuilding has been going fairly well so far. But then I read the Chron today and kept thing to myself “Uh oh”. I don’t like Sabean making decisions on trades. He undervalues young talent and overvalues veteran players. That is about the worst combination I can think of. Which means those trades are somewhat believable scenarios from Sabean.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 30, 2008 2:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You just don’t want to trade Villalona because your name would become more obsolete than “WaitingForBoof”
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the word of the Marlins Stadium? Hitters park? Neutral? Just curious cause I’d hate to see Uggla or Cantu walk in here and turn into Aaron Rowand… He of park inflated home run numbers.
by dogdays on Sep 30, 2008 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
terrible hitter's park
Pro Player is a worse hitter’s park than AT&T
by Dickdrivethiscar on Sep 30, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overall pitcher’s park, but I think it actually plays differently at different times of the year.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 30, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jonathan Sanchez for Garret Atkins, anyone?
The Rockies need pitchers and we need a third baseman with power. Huge red flag: Atkins’ home/road splits are brutal, even by Colorado standards.
I’m not saying I’d make this trade, but I could see Sabean pulling the trigger on it.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 30, 2008 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
then why not offer to the Red for EE? or the Royals for Teahen and move him back to third?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teahen is not worth Sanchez
he’s only had 1 good year and 2 straight poor ones. But perhaps a move back to 3b would help him mentally. As a lefty, his power would be even worse in AT&T.
But what about a Nate for Teahen swap?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 30, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate would be reasonible from my end. but I have feeling the Royals need arms more then outfielders.
As for why Teahen he did not seem to play him self out of 3rd as much a Gordon just out played him. His glove is solid there unlike EE. It seems they have been looking for a home for Teahen ever since. And the Royals home park is not easy on the left handed power numbers either ( according to first inning +007 2b, -.005 3b -.010 Hrs VS Mays Field of +.014 2b, +.012 3b, -.010 HR ) so Teahen’s batting numbers are less likely to drop after the adjustment period.
I am not in love with the idea but it looks like a sound bet compared to most of the other options for third an no long term contract or strengthening a division rival needed.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atkins’ defense sucks too. I’d rather not.
by rotorueter on Sep 30, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rocks won’t trade Atkins to the Giants. And with Helton’s future in doubt, Atkins fits nicely as a 1b and lets Stewart play 3rd.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 30, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third base seems like kind of a wasteland in MLB right now.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 30, 2008 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
3B wasteland, oh yeah, it’s only 3B wasteland
They’re all wasted!
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So am I!
Three Cheers for being wasted!
….wait i gotta take a drink first.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at a Pearl Jam show in '93 at the Greek Theater in Berkeley
Telling my friend that he needed to start listening to the Who, and that they had this awesome song with electric violin and shit, and all the sudden, they covered it! They’ve actually covered it many times since, but that was amazing (except for the small portion where Stone Gossard butchered the vocals- leave that to Ed, please!!!)
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Oct 1, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate + Velez for Beltre?
“In a heartbeat” is my first reaction. How many years is Beltre under control for?
Also, this should go in your clip reel:
They have a host of options at second base, much in the same way that “Band-Aid”, “sucking on it”, and “hoping it will go away” are a host of options for a wound caused by blunt-force trauma.
So much win.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 3:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So
Your plan is to go with a 35 year old Right Fielder, for whom you have a 25 year old virtual photo copy, with potentially more power and slight drop in defense? I get the whole Randy Winn MVP thing, but why not trade Rowand for Beltre, and keep Winn and Nate then?
Would you trade Rowand+whichever insignificant player for a 3b?
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on Sep 30, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If my 35-yo right fielder is Randy Winn, then hell yes I play him there next year.
Nate =/= Randy Winn. That’s crazy talk.
I’d trade Rowand in a heartbeat if I thought someone would take him, and the Giants wouldn’t have to pay his salary.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not going to prove with stats which one is better or not, I know Randy’s better. Right now. But what about in 2 years? 3? Nate’s numbers should go up, and especially when he has more than 112 ABs in a season.
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on Sep 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, there’s not enough data yet to really interpolate what kind of player Nate is or can be. Over the course of his career, though, I suspect he won’t be as good a player as Winn is. Hopefully (if we keep him) he’ll prove me wrong.
Let’s trade Rowand instead! ;-)
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
At least we agree on one thing! See, I reached across the aisle.
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on Sep 30, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, Beltre is only under control for 2009. I’d be ok with trading for him, as long as we didn’t give up much since he’ll definitely hit the free agent market with Boras as his agent.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 30, 2008 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that brings up another good point: Remember Beltre’s last contract season?
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Oct 1, 2008 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Way Jose
Beltre is basically Feliz+ at this stage of his career, now that he’s not on roids anymore. What has he done in the last 3 years that leads us to believed he’ll bring us to the promised land?
Uggla can take his 170 strikeouts somewhere else. I think he’s a sell high candidate.
by JesseSeg on Sep 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A couple of months ago, somone else said Beltre is basically Feliz and my head exploded. I’d just put the last pieces of brain tissue and skull fragments back and was sewing up my scalp…and BOOM
The last three years, Beltre has averaged 29 points more OPS+ than Feliz. 29. Twenty-nine.
Say what you want about not wanting Beltre, but saying he’s “bascially Feliz” is neither fair nor is it grounded in rational thought.
29!
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
29 at best.
At Best!!!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 30, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Career numbers:
Feliz: .252/.290/.429, 84 OPS+.
Beltre: .271/.327/.459, 109 OPS+.
Feliz’s defense is better, but there’s no way that makes up for the difference in offense.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pilling on but no spearing … this time!
Plus Beltre has had a twice as many P.A’s in park the absolutely kills( 1263 P.A’s for a .253/309/414 avg /obp/slg in Safceo vs. career line of 271/327/459) his numbers then the in his break out ‘04 year (651 P.A‘s for 334/388/629). So if anything his batting numbers are currently deflated.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone needs to just make a permanent website..
www.adrianbeltreisnotpedrofeliz.com
We can all just point people to that website.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s that TimLincecum.com guy?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 30, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL no matter how many times people say it, Adrian Beltre is not just a better Pedro Feliz. Unless you mean “significantly better, like waaaaay better.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz is basically a league average 3B
Beltre is “league average plus.”
I know this site is reluctant to accept it, but the Phillies’ signing of Feliz for the money they’re paying him was an outright heist. They might not make the playoffs if they’re still running the jank out there that they were playing last season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 30, 2008 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think in few more years Pedro will be remembered much more fondly. Its not his fault the team was asking him to try and be a hart of the order bat when it was obvious he did not have the skills for it. I think most here know that but the frustration level is still too high . It needs to wear down some more.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Pedro
As a person and as a fielder. As a hitter his .290 career OBP leaves me quite cold. He did improve that to .302 this season, but his SLG dropped to only .402. Pedro helps his team in the field, but hurts it at the plate.
TOO MANY OUTS!
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overall he is pretty much average, maybe slightly below average. But man, was it painfull to watch him hit.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am wholeheartedly on board for both those trades, with certain caveats. And I’m a big Villalona fan. Put it this way: Get Uggla. Get as much as you can out of him. Take the draft picks when he leaves for free agency. Get Beltre. Sign him to the same contract he’s on, extending him to a point where he can get one more deal before retirement. You’ll have a top five 2B (even with the awful D) and a top five 3B.
Beltre is the fabulously wealthy man’s Pedro Feliz. He’s the middle class Scott Rolen. I could go on. In any event, he fits Sabean’s defense-first tunnel vision, but he’s a legitimately good hitter to boot. USSMariner explains it in more depth, but I put Beltre behind ARod, Wright, Longoria, Chipper, and maybe Guillen and Zimmerman among MLB 3B, considering his hitting plus defense.
Uggla is a different discussion. I’d love to relive Jeff Kent circa 1999, but given the choice between the two, because of Rowand/Zito killing our budget, I take Beltre.
by David Arnott on Sep 30, 2008 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And now I realize that “wholeheartedly on board for both those trades, with certain caveats” is a contradiction. Sort of.
I’m on board. With caveats.
by David Arnott on Sep 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You always make sense..
50% of the time.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're only saying that because we happen to have 5 fingers on each hand.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1!!1!!!
I for one will no longer submit to the tyranny of the 100% special interests.
From now on, 138% = the whole.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Munter
83% of the time, he gets a ground ball 138% of the time.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Rowand gives 148%
The 8.468372% of the time that he’s not nursing a nagging injury.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 30, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, you write a blog about a basketball team that tried to eliminate its radio broadcasts. You’re excused for not fully committing to something.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Belting out Beltre?
Brian Sabean said the Giants weren’t interested in anyone with just a single year left on his contract. Wouldn’t that rule out Beltre, who IMO is Pedro Feliz with more power, anyway?
Uggla is younger, so he might be a possibility.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
//shields self from flying Goofus skull fragments
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla is younger, so he might be a possibility.
ahem. Sabean.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The future
Brian definitely appears to have his focus on the future, with the desire to sign free agents and possibly make deals that help the present but also aid the future.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adrian Beltre is Pedro Feliz with more power. And a better BA. And More BB’s. And better base running. So basically he’s Pedro Feliz, only a lot better at playing baseball. Also, Beltre is only 11 months older than Uggla.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overpriced
Adrian Beltre is overpriced IMO.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative. He’s fairly compensated for his services.
I’ve got him down as 3.7 wins above replacement which is worth about $16M on the free agent market. He’s costing the Mariners $12M this year and next. He’s a good deal for his current salary. He’s a league average or slightly better hitter that played the best defense in the majors this year at third base.
Just wondering why you think he’s overpriced?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Oct 2, 2008 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it
Brian Sabean said the Giants weren’t interested in anyone with just a single year left on his contract. Wouldn’t that rule out Beltre, who IMO is Pedro Feliz with more power, anyway?
Read this this morning, and Beltre immediately came to mind. Of course, Sabean could just be blowing smoke, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m no Beltre fan, either. I’d rather see what Nate can do, as the OF situation below the big leagues isn’t pretty.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 30, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 3B situation is worse.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Third base. My sense is that the two players who play the hot corner the most for the Giants next season will be Rich Aurilia and Pablo Sandoval.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre, who IMO is Pedro Feliz with more power
I really do expect better from you. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Sep 30, 2008 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d get pretty nervous about trading Villalona under any circumstances. Uggla wouldn’t be a bad player to get though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Sep 30, 2008 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Uggla
Let’s be careful about coveting players who have a 1.350 OPS against the team they’d be joining. “He kills us, so he must kill everyone” is not a good trading philosophy, Mr. Sabean.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 30, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously you don’t remember the Steve Finley signing.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 30, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, trust me, I do.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 30, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't a signing
We traded Edgardo for him.
by Natto on Sep 30, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attempted signing
Didn’t he take less money to sign w/ the Angels?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 30, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Portugal.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Oct 3, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is better than his "let's sign pitchers we had big moments again" strategy
See: Kline, Benitez, etc. (probably more but not off the top of my head)
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 30, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than the “lets give away anyone who had a bad/acquire anyone who had a good playoff series” strategy.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 30, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can make it through the offseason...
And refrain from trading Bumgarner, Alderson, Villalona, Cain or Lincecum, I’m not going to be angry. I might not be happy, but I won’t be pissed off.
Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...
by tedfordfan on Sep 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Villanola
should not be given up
by MeTaLLiCs0naTaS on Sep 30, 2008 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
K/BB ratio
You’re not bothered by Angel Villalona’s horrid K/BB ratio this past season? I see him as Ryan Howard, which is very good, but with many fewer walks, which is not.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he made the majors, Ryan Howard was seven years older than Villalona. I don’t think anyone knows what to make of Villalona right now except that he has great skills for a teenager in full-season ball. Fixing on K/BB numbers for Villalona right now isn’t really productive. Jose Reyes, just to name one player off the top of my head, had something like a 80/10 K/BB ration when he was in the SAL at a similar age.
by Grant on Oct 1, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he played in the SAL, Ryan Howard was five years older than Villalona, and he hit for less power and struck out more …
Villalona’s ceiling is still unlimited, but it’s not too early to be worry about his plate discipline. The vast majority of players with k/w numbers like his, even very young and very talented players, never really overcome the problem. Let’s hope the Giants’ hitting coaches are focusing on it.
by Evan on Oct 2, 2008 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s hope the Giants’ hitting coaches are focusing on it.
Hint: They’re not.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
somebody tell me if this is at all realistic...
Boston, from what I can tell, has need of catchers. the Giants have one to spare. Boston also happens to possess an extra young, middle infield type who’s probably much better off as a 2b than ss, something the Giants could use. this leads me to postulate a possible trade of:
Molina+Henry Sosa to the Red Sox
for
Jed Lowrie and maybe a C type prospect to the Giants
I think it’s a trade the Red Sox could consider because Pedroia has 2b locked up for the long term, and I think Theo will probably look to do a little better than Lowrie’s defense at short. Of course, the Red Sox haven’t been a team of late that’s willing to trade youth for veterans straight up unless the vet in question is a truly top tier talent (a la the Santana rumors last offseason) which is why Henry Sosa gets thrown in so that the Sox have some possible long term return out of the deal. The Giants, meanwhile, can maybe afford to lose Sosa given Bumgarner’s and Alderson’s presence at roughly the same level in the minors.
Sandoval moves to catcher, Ishikawa gets a chance to play 1b (maybe they could try and teach Nate the position in the offseason too?), and our middle infield is set possibly for the long term with Lowrie and Burriss at 2b and ss, respectively. now all that needs to happen is for the Giants to pull a competent 3b out of a hat and suddenly the offense is maybe reasonably competent, if not overly threatening.
Anyway, would something like that be doable from the Sox’s perspective? As I Giants fan, I think it would be tempting at least.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 30, 2008 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched Lowrie pretty close this year. He’s meh. Definitely not worth B-Money and Sosa.. Pedroia & Youkilis would be the only I guys I would trade for.
Boston is definitely in need of a backup 3rd basemen, bullpen arms, and a number 5 starter. Somehow I see Boston winning the Sabathia sweepstakes next season.
Can we trade for David Wright?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bear in mind it’s 1 year of B. Money and Sosa… I realize Lowrie’s numbers weren’t terrific this season (and am also willing to admit that part of my motivation behind this trade could be a pro-Stanford bias), but I like that he seems to have a pretty good eye and has seemed pretty sound defensively when i’ve seen him. I think he could develop into a good gap hitter who can take a walk— a nice formula for success at AT&T. his ability to switch hit, along with Sandoval, Burriss and Winn, also intrigues me (Lowrie’s splits were a lot more balanced in the minors, leading me to believe he could develop that same capability in the bigs).
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 30, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get me wrong, Lowrie would be a great fit for the Giants. Just whom to give up for him, is a little sketchy to me. He’s not a superstar, but he is a consistent and I see him as the everyday SS / backup 3B for Boston. The Sox and the Giants have the same needs at this point, which makes it a little difficult to get fair trade value.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s going to do something stupid. i can feel it.
by serrapadre716 on Sep 30, 2008 5:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well it is Sabean we are talking about. Rain is wet. jope Cstle knows GiDP’s. Bears crap in the woods ec. etc. etc.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
Brian Sabean has never spoken as he did at the end of this season. He also has made decent moves beginning with the drafting and signing of Tim Lincecum over two years ago. You may feel that Brian is going to do something stupid, but I don’t see it.
Maybe someone can HEAR something to break this logjam. ;)
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't use Lincecum's draft day as any kind of stupidity inflection point
They’ve signed Rowand and Zito (and very nearly Pierre and Matthews) since drafting the Chosen One.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While the Uggla trade proposed above would be good for the Giants,
it’s also wildly unrealistic. A couple of B-grade prospects is not going to get you 3 years of a top-tier slugger.
Take that package and add Alderson and you might get the Marlins to pick up the phone.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 30, 2008 7:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Villalona and Sosa
are both among the top 5 prospects in our system, aren’t they? Our now-respectable system. Am I missing something here? Aren’t they A-grade prospects?
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Sep 30, 2008 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont know about grade A
AnVil might be,, but i wouldn’t think Sosa would be considered an A prospect.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 30, 2008 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Villalona and Sosa are top prospects...
Villalona was given an $2 million bonus – as a 16 year old (only Tim Lincecum, Rafael Rodriguez, and Buster Posey have ever received more formt he Giants).
I don’t see how the Giants can give up that much money to a player with such a high ceiling at such a young age.
This year, in the SAL, he hit .263/.312/.435/.747, with 29 2B, and 17 HR – and he is still only 17!
Next year, he will be in High A ball, at 18 years of age.
I just can’t see how they would trade him.
by kar120c on Oct 1, 2008 4:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More importantly
His numbers were on a consistant rise all year long…
by dogdays on Oct 1, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still not sure I can accept Uggla as a top-tier slugger. He uses up an awful lot of outs to get his 30 home runs a year, his career OBP is .341, and he costs you runs in the field. And he’s not young.
I’d make a Villalona+Sosa for Uggla swap if the Giants had a good shot at contending next year. Villalona, Sosa, and Alderson? Never.
by Evan on Sep 30, 2008 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why trade for someone with a career OBP of .327? And a guy who hasn’t gone over .328 in the past four years?
"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."
by giants9107 on Sep 30, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we’d be giving up a half prospect and a quarter prospect (Schierholtz and Velez), not two of our top 10. And Beltre is also a fantastic fielder.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Oct 1, 2008 2:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just read this post, got to the end...
and then died a little inside.
Angel Villalona: Not good enough to be called up.
by AngelintheInfield on Sep 30, 2008 8:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As mentioned above, Beltre would seemingly be out the running due to his having only one year left on his deal….but I could see a sign and trade type thing. I’d certainly hope that any trade for him would be based on his willingness to sign an extension or a new deal once here. He’s still only 29 and would be a significant upgrade over what he have at 3rd now (though, I still think Pablo could play there.)
Also, I’m totally opposed to trading Villalona. His value is not anywhere near its max. He’s also the biggest power bat in our system.
I’m also opposed to trying to acquire Uggla. His defense is absolutely brutal and we have plenty of 2b.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 30, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ditto to being against any trade involving villalona. we need to hang onto our top prospects— AnVil, MadBum, Alderson and Posey (who’s untradeable anyway) should all be only slightly more available than Lincecum or Cain. Which is to say that unless it’s a prospect for prospect type deal, a la Volquez for Hamilton last season, I wouldn’t do it.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 30, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is what i was looking for! One ticket please.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travis Denker will be out OBPing Dan Uggla before his 23rd birthday.
The proposed Beltre trade, I’m okay with. It even sorta makes sense for Seattle.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .
by oldjacket on Oct 1, 2008 7:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
why people don’t consider Travis Denker to be a real prospect. He walks a ton, has a little pop, and plays 2B.. I guess I’m not a scout but his numbers look pretty nice to me… PLUS he’s young for his level
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Oct 1, 2008 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/offers lmaozedong a seat on the Denker bus.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .
by oldjacket on Oct 1, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overlooked
If Travis Denker is truly a good prospect, he is being overlooked by the Giants, who didn’t even call him up in September. I see him as a bench player, which makes his not being able to play shortstop a bigger liability.
I prefer Kevin Frandsen, who more or less does everything as well or better than Travis with the exception of walk. Travis probably has a little more pop, as well.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but WHY
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Oct 5, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an exiled fan in the Northwest
I must say, despite the obvious dropoff at the plate, Beltre is fun to watch in the field. We stopped expecting the spectacular play once per game because there were, like, 6 per game, and we demanded one per inning.
And the scary thing is, he delivered. At some point this season, he made all three putouts with that ridiculous charging barehand of a slow roller.
by woomikee on Oct 1, 2008 8:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Best I've ever seen
I think third basemen as a whole have gotten VERY good at charging, fielding and throwing the slow roller, but Adrian Beltre has taken it to yet another level. Unbelievable!
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why
What is wrong with everyone wanting to trade Schierholtz? He is one of the best, young, MLB ready players we have. Isn’t that what everyone has been waiting for?
Furthermore, why trade the future of Villalona and Sosa for a band aid in Uggla? He won’t be the fix all, and you just gave away the depth in the Minor League that makes us promising for the future.
I know people want to win now, but it isn’t going to happen, whether or not these trades go through.
by The MLBeat on Oct 1, 2008 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
in the minority...
i say try to trade winn or rowand.
and sign c.c.
by travis j bagdad on Oct 1, 2008 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
I agree with trading either Winn (trade value up) but probably not Rowand (trade value down). I doubt the Giants can afford CC Sabathia. They already gave his money to Barry Zito.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Beltre trade would be a steal for us. I don’t love the Uggla trade, but I agree that Sabean might consider something like it.
It’s disappointing that Ishikawa isn’t currently in their plans for ‘09. I get why — Pablo is the priority, and if he can’t hang at third, first is the only option — but I think Ishi has a better shot of being a viable major-leaguer than most of our young ’uns. Certainly a better shot than Burriss.
by onlxn on Oct 1, 2008 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Burriss better
Emmanuel Burriss came to the majors as a guy who flat-out couldn’t hit right-handed pitching. Working with Carney Lansford, he learned very quickly to do so.
Travis Ishikawa can’t hit lefties — and he plays a position that demands a huge bat. Unless Travis can make the same improvement against southpaws that Emmanuel did against righties, I don’t see him as more than a platoon player.
I prefer Manny to Travis.
by sharksrog on Oct 1, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could make the same criticisms of Sandoval.
Actually, Ishikawa’s minor league platoon splits were .868 R/.776 L, much better than Sandoval’s .850 R/.691L. As for 1B demanding a huge bat, I couldn’t agree more. I just don’t see a player with Sandoval’s complete lack of discipline as providing that bat. He’d have to hit .320 or better to be a passable offensive 1B.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My first post, so have mercy on me
I read most, but not all of these posts. I did not realize there is a 24 hour cooling off period after you sign up before you can post your first comment, so if I missed a thread, sorry.
Anyhow, as a lifelong Giants fan, (yes I had to move to another NL city for work and take abuse from the locals for wearing my "true colors") it is hard to be objective as far as trade deals are concerned. (Though not as shell shocked as the post-Nathan debacle Sabes) My thought is since we will be bringing up at LEAST one starter in the next 2-3 years (Bumgarner, Alderson, et al) why not think about signing CC, packaging Rowand and Cain (hate to move him, but he has some kind of run support repellant in his DNA and although he has a favorable contract for the short term, at some point he is going to get paid) to get the power hitting corner in/outfielder that the team so desperately needs and so richly deserves? Who that is, I don’t think I want to speculate, but with what is being offered, we should be able to target the player the team wants. By making this move, the numbers aren’t too bad, as you lose the $$$ that Rowand makes, and I am counting on a small home town discount from CC, as well as the decrease/elimination of deferred money owed. Also, with the potential glut of starters in the near future, it should provide the GM, whoever that may be at the time, quality trading chips to make more fine tuning moves so that I can experience a WS win in SF before I leave this planet. Of course, I might be full of horse droppings, but a guy can dream, can’t he?
by scooter3024 on Oct 2, 2008 2:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot can good dreadfully wrong with that. I’ll just the most obvious and biggest sticking point.
So in 2 winters you have about 40MM committed to Zito & CC ( or Tex if that’s your poison of choice). If payroll remains the same you have about 45 MM to pay every one else with. The new power hitter and Tim would probably run another 30 MM/year( giving us the benefit of the doubt for it could easily be more). So now the that leaves about 15 MM to staff 21 other roster slots. The MLB minimum almost .5MM so we get see a lot of G. Rod and Ochoa type players. It turns into Bonds and the 7 dwarfs all over again.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 2, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the financial commitment will be larger, at least in the the near term, but the only way the Giants to field a team to contend for a WS is to spend now. IMO, the Giants will be fielding a team made up of many younger players short of arbitration eligibility. Thus they will have more talent for less salary for the short term. I purposely did not name a particular positiion player to acquire in the trade, as the knee jerk reaction is that it has to be either Teixiera or someone of that ilk, salary-wise. The point of including Cain is twofold. First, you have to offer quality to get back quality. Secondly, because you are offering quality, you hopefully can wrest away a player that has both the talent needed (in this case power) and a more friendly salary level. As I have never asked the front office to provide me with all of their scouting reports, I am again not specifying any particular player. However, there has to be a deal that will work. I am not trying to be overly obtuse here. The team has already stated that they were a bit under their internal cap in ’08. Well, pony up the bucks and get a winner now. If they have to spend $100+ mil to get there, so be it. They are putting on the “good face”, but management is not too thrilled that they did not draw over 3 million this year at the park. No matter how entertaining the kids are and will be in ’09, attendance will continue to drop off. As a native San Franciscan, I am ashamed to admit that we support our teams at the box office only when they are either winning, or are giving off the appearance of winning. For that reason Bonds was signed for the last two contract extensions. (or whatever you would like to call them) He drew fans that paid for tickets, emerald nuts, expensive beer, and garlic fries. If nothing else has been proven in SF, you got to win to make money with a franchise, and only a winner draws. After the fact, you can pull a Huizenga and sell of your players if the salary level gets above the income/outgo level.
Of course I am selfish, as I seriously want to win a WS before I die. I was too young in ’62 and the last two were far too painful, especially ’89, losing to that little league bunch from Smoketown. (Yes, I blame Dusty for the loss to the current “The Angels Angels of Anaheim”.)
Sorry for any spelling errors, but I am tired and in dire need of an adult beverage.
by scooter3024 on Oct 2, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the team needs some clarity on what they have on the farm and what they intend to do with the players. We already are having the hot stove debate about Bengie blocking Pedro so he HAS to play 1B, which blocks Ishi, which takes a potential power guy (not a monster power hitter, but maybe 20-25 dingers a year) and sits him. Heck, you can move Bengie for “cap” relief to help out. I can live with Pedro behind the plate and whoever backing him up with Posey coming along in 1-2 years. i want to avoid what has happened with the current outfield situation at the other positions. I say, move Rowand, put Winn in center, get a HR hitting RF, sit Roberts, as no one will take him, Lewis in LF, maybe a FA/trade 3B with some power for a couple of years, as it looks like we are committed to Gillaspie, Burris/Frandsen/Velez/etc up the middle. The Giants will never be easily able to get out from under the Zito contract. I, for one, do not want to wait for all those years until we can be free of it to try and contend. And that is another thread, what is going to be the order for the starters next year? I have read some theories that Zito will be the #4, as we open against the Brew crew and they own Zito. I say we go Lincecum, Cain/CC, someone, as I would love to move Sanchez for a hitter/Zito and Lowry, with any luck. Move Correia, trade Yabu for some broken bats, put Hennessey in the pen and put the spirit of Rod Beck into Walker.
by scooter3024 on Oct 2, 2008 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scooter why spend massively now? Seriously. This squad is in no position to stack the deck towards the short term. No power hitters, only a couple guys that will get on base at a decent, or better , clip. The infield defense is terrible though if the young ones are played it should trend towards average this coming season. The Outfield defense is O.K but does not look to be getting much better then it is. In short it way too soon to start going all in. The young ones have to be played more so they sort themselves out. Then the front office can start trying to bringing in the pieces that fit correctly. Not more moves like Rowand or Roberts.
As for spending 100MM per year I think they would do that eventually. But to not to become the Mariners or the O’s of this most of this decade were the payroll is 100MM but the team barely sniffs 500. So first this team needs to get a lot closer to 80 wins with it current payroll before the front office will consider pilling dead presidents on so as to squeeze out 5-10 more wins because then you are looking at a possible play off team.
The Zito contract is bad. But this team can still survive and compete one of those. Hell the Rays are spending less then 45 MM for the entire team so it can be done. A second Huge contract now will sink this team. Even if the player is Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds rolled into one .
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 3, 2008 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love for the team to have a payroll of $45M and be in the playoffs, but as this team is currently configured, for any chance at serious post season success, unless you can find a team that wants to pick up Zito, $100M here we come. I think that the team can afford to spend some more money. They seem to be fairly profitable.
I still remember most of the ‘80s sitting in section 21 in the upper deck of the stick with no one else around, Now that we play in the best ballpark in the majors, why not put up some championship banners for decoration. I clearly know that I am wishing beyond reality, but I really think that if we do not get some HR hitters and pitchers that win games (which are probably not mutually exclusive), well, i just do not want to have to defend the 17th year of rebuilding to fans of other teams. Especially Dodger fans, as I hate them with every fiber of my being. I hope that wasn’t too harsh.
by scooter3024 on Oct 4, 2008 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not saying they can’t spend more then the 80-90MM. That as been our pay roll range for most of this decade. What I am saying I don’t think they increase pay roll that tell the squad is close to playing 500 ball for a season. Big difference.
If they just go ahead and raise the budget by 20MM right now you buy a 80 win team. Does us no good. No play offs. Don’t get the better draft picks to get better. Don’t get enough of a fan bump to encourage ownership to spend yet another 20MM ( which then is a 50% pay roll increase over current) to get into the play offs.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 4, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have CC on the Giants, but I don’t think that hometown discount will be significantly lower than if he signed elsewhere. Having so much of the payroll tied up in two pitchers is crazy.
by Natto on Oct 4, 2008 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A question:
What do the Giants do, when, if all goes right for them, they have to pay Lincecum, Cain, Alderson and Bumgardner. I am not comparing this to thinking about pickng up CC right now, but it begs the same question in regards to percentage of payroll to pitchers. In this case four pitchers, but they very well may be responsible for the bulk of the team’s payroll if everything goes well for the team. (actually you could say that with Zito, Lincecum, Cain and CC it would have about the same collective payroll effect now, vis-a-vis four pitchers total pay v. total team payroll…of course this is again all speculative) My partial thought on the answer would be trading off some of the players, which is pretty much the same scenario I see post 2009 with the Giants, if they do pull the string and make some big ticket moves. With the glut of OF on the team, keeping Rowand does not seem to be in the teams best interest. I would guess that PHL would love to have him back. I keep hearing the same commercial in my head..“Pay me now, or pay me later”.
by scooter3024 on Oct 4, 2008 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many questions....
Q. Does Sandoval have enough pop to play 1B? & Is Posey going to be ready at C when Molina’s deal expires?
A. If the answer is yes Cain/Fielder is a bad deal. If the answer is no then we need to sack up and trade Matty. We need an 1B that can hit 30+ otherwise we will be hitting less than 100 hr for the next decade.
Q. Winn 9MM, Roberts 6.5MM, Molina 6.5MM expires end of ’09? Can we afford to let them all go to FA?
A. Hopefully thats 20MM to invest in Lincecum & Co. Lewis, Schierholtz, Bowker, Posey, Sandoval better step it up
Q. Do we wait for a 2011 rotation of Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Alderson, Sosa?
A. YES! Cuz then we will have Posey, Sandi, Gillaspie, Villanoa, Burriss as our key hitter too!
by cazzuno on Oct 2, 2008 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My Q1 answer is I agree with your answer except that I am very scared of any player that has a uniform big enough to hide the national debt, so i am not a big Fielder fan. In a perfect world, having a 1B that can hit for a high average is great. On the team the Giants will field next year, you have GOT to have some power and 1B is one of the positions that should provide that power. (However, I do enjoy watching Sandoval play and I think he is good for the team, but behind the plate.)
Q2 answer: When you say you are buying the drinks, at some point, you got to pay the tab. I totally agree with you. Lincecum and the other “kids” will be re-upping or going through arbitration around the same time period as those contracts expire. I would try to dump as many as i could as soon as possible. Will the team be THAT much worse without those players???
Q3: Again in a perfect world what you say is my perect storm of Giants nirvana. From experience, someone always screws it up. Not to drop a dime on ol’ Sabes, but we might have another Orlando Cepeda situation by 2011. I am also not sold on Villalona and some of the others. The pitching rotation, priceless, as long as they stay healthy and get over the pain of 90 loss seasons between then and now.
Would you accept Zito as bullpen coach in 2011? (I am joking)
by scooter3024 on Oct 3, 2008 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you define power? Hr’s only? Or extra base hits?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 3, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need more HRS! below are three reasons:
1) In 2008 we were top ten in 2B & 3B and dead last in HR by 17
2) Molina had 16 jacks; our entire outfield (lewis, winn, rowand) had 32 hrs our corner infielders (Ishi, Sandi, Aurilia, Castillo, Bowker) had about 32 hrs. Thats 80 HR for 6 Power Hitting Positions
3) In MLB this year there were 9 outfielders that singlehandedly out homer’ed our enitre OF and 10 corner infielders that outproduced our 1B/3B combined
by cazzuno on Oct 3, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were also pretty poor in base running for the first half of the season so we were not taking the extra 90 feet. Station to station will not get things done. Better OBP would help as well. Fixing either will be a lot easier and more likely to happen then finding a pair of30 HR+ a year mashers.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 3, 2008 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yes you need a at least a Pair of 30 Hr mashers for the model your proposing.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 3, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dave-Please find us some 3 run homer game winning walk off high fiving plate stomping average to above average glove guys for a fair price and I will salute you from every watering hole from here to Cooperstown.
by scooter3024 on Oct 4, 2008 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scooter if I ahd that kind of power it would have been done decades again. And the Dodgers would never win more then 60 games a season.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Oct 4, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest worry about Sandoval isn't power.
At least he’s shown some of that in his career. His plate discipline, OTOH, is utterly non-existent. Power may be the team’s #1 problem, but inability to reach base is only a hair’s breadth behind.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 3, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Almost Agree
I don’t see Beltre though. I see us trading the same four guys all to Florida for Cantu as well as Uggla.
LineUp:
Winn RF
Lewis LF
Sandoval 1B
Uggla 2B
Molina C
Cantu 3B
Rowand CF
Burriss SS
Bench:
Holms C
McClain 1B/3B
Frandsen 2B/SS
Roberts OF
Bowker 1B/OF
by giantsrainman on Oct 3, 2008 6:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What did Natto say when the Giants back up catcher fell on him?
Yo, get offa me Holms!
:)
by scooter3024 on Oct 4, 2008 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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