Nick Swisher...offseason target?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 29, 2008 2:53 PM PDT

I mentioned this briefly in another fanpost, but I wanted to post a more direct approach here. What do you guys think of the Giants going after Nick Swisher this offseason?

For who? Well, Aaron Rowand is beloved by Ken Williams and he tried to sign Rowand last year if memory serves. ROwand is a true CF, unlike Swisher and would instantly upgrade the Sox defense. Both players have similar contracts and I could see this being attractive to both sides. Perhaps the Giants could pick up a little salary here or there, add a Jack Taschner or something, but more or less this doesn't seem too unrealistic.

THE FACTS ON SWISHER:

.219/.332/.410 with 24 homers and mediocre defense in an offensive park. That's ugly any way you slice it, but some consolation:

-Swisher posted the highest LD% of his career at 20.9%, which gives him an expected BABIP of .329, his actual BABIP this year was .249, suggesting he was quite unlucky.

-If you adjust for that "luck" Swisher hits the following line .272/.383/.477 which is a very good line I think we'd all like, even after park adjustment.

-Versatile in OF. Preferably we'd keep him at a corner, but if need be we could even play him at 1B.

I think this would be an amazing deal for us and I'd love for Sabean to pursue it. Thoughts?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I'd sure as hell do it if Williams would

Swisher’s as good as Rowand, younger, and cheaper. He had a bad year but most of that seems to be luck-based. Rowand had an average year which is basically exactly the same as the many other average years he’s put up in the past.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 29, 2008 3:07 PM PDT 0 recs

one ticket

you sum it up nicely.

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by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

But then we would have to give up Rowand

I just don’t think the organization could handle the loss of all that gamerness.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:08 PM PDT 0 recs

Come on

Swisher is white, sort of chunky, and dives into walls too.

He’s at least 90% of the gamer that Rowand is.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 29, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

No broken nose running into a fence……not gamer enough

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, but Frandsen's coming back.

He’s gritty enough to make up the missing 10%.

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by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

SWAGGER > TALENT

Simple science.

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by Mike Hawk on Sep 29, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up 0 recs

I remember he hurt SOMETHING diving into a fence last year

I was at that game. Sprained neck, or hamstring, or something.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 29, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

He ran into a wall in a game in 2005 too. I was at that game and heard the thud he made when he hit the wall, way in my lower box seat behind first base.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 29, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

I would do this one-for-one, if possible, in a heartbeat

I’d even do it if it meant throwing in Correia and Tasch and one of the mediocre middle infielders we have (ok, maybe only Ochoa)

but I doubt Kenny Williams and Brian Sabean even talk about it, much less go through with it.

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by baetown415 on Sep 29, 2008 3:22 PM PDT 0 recs

I agree with the talking, but...

Williams loves him some Rowand. I think the bigger problem would be Sabean doesn’t love him some Swisher

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 29, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up 0 recs

I Like This Idea

But I would play Swisher at 1B with Sandoval at 3B freeing up RF for Schierholtz with Lewis in LF and Winn in CF.

by giantsrainman on Sep 29, 2008 3:24 PM PDT 0 recs

Suddenly this deal got a little better.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic."

by giants9107 on Sep 29, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

I get the feeling that Williams wouldn’t sell low on Swisher after giving up such a big package to acquire him. IIRC one of the big reasons why Williams wanted Swisher so badly was because of his OBP capabilities. Rowand isn’t on his level.

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by Anticon23 on Sep 29, 2008 3:35 PM PDT 0 recs

certainly

however Swisher did have a sh#t year and Rowand is clearly a better defender. Didn’t Williams try to sign Rowand before trading for Swisher? Plus, it’d be a real popular move with Chicago Fans, who could be very upset if the Sox choke out of the post-season today or tomorrow

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 29, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

Swisher is younger, cheaper, and is more versatile. He gets on base better than Rowand does, and he has more power.

Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.

by Anticon23 on Sep 30, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

Am I arguing against that point?

Not really

It’s clear I prefer Swisher, the point is what might KW and the Sox think of him. One thing for sure is Rowand is clearly the better defensive CF and it’s not even a question. Swisher was LAST among AL CF’s according to Dial’s rating at baseball primer. Rowand usually finds himself at the top.

Rowand would be a popular move in ChiTown and would greatly aid the Sox defense. Swisher can’t play RF or CF for them (Quentin and Dye) and 1B is an option, although Konerko, as bad as heis, is even more untradeable with two years left on his contract

I know Swish will bounce back, that’s why I’d love to have him, but there are certainly argument that can be made to justify this deal for CWS. Defense is a BIG part of baseball and Rowand is probably 10 runs better than Swisher on defense. Swisher might be 15-20 runs better on offense (when he’s having a 2006-2007 type years that is), but Swish wasn’t better last year and Rowand has had success at the Cell

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 30, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

I mispoke

He’s not dead last, but he is out of the top 10. I’m sure he rates poorly on other metrics as well, like +/-

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 30, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

make it so

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by The Gene Hackman on Sep 29, 2008 4:16 PM PDT 0 recs

good trade...

…but our main priority should be to clear space in right for Nate Dogg and so I’d love to deal Rowand or Winn for somebody who isn’t an OF. Unfortunately the most likely candidate for that on the Chisox would be Joe Crede and I think we all feel the same way about that guy

"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."

by i did my job on Sep 29, 2008 4:25 PM PDT 0 recs

Crede is going to be a free agent.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
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by Natto on Sep 29, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don’t usually say this about fake trades, but this kinda makes sense.

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by oldjacket on Sep 29, 2008 4:49 PM PDT 0 recs

I like it. Fairly realistic, and makes some sense for both teams. You’ve set the bar very high for trade threads this winter!

by rotorueter on Sep 29, 2008 5:20 PM PDT 0 recs

idgi

Why would they trade their CF for an older, less good CF?

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Sep 29, 2008 5:27 PM PDT 0 recs

well...

a) Defense – Is Swisher actually a CF? He ranked last in Dial’s CF ratings. Rowand might be overrated defensively by the press, but he’s still a very good defensive CF. Sox are pretty set at the corners as well (Dye and Quentin)
b) Williams loves Rowand – tried to sign him before trading for Swisher. Rowand was a great White Sox player and was a fan favorite. The move would be popular at a time where the Sox could become unpopular (if they lose game 163 tomorrow)
c) Rowand was better on both ends this season, especially when you factor for park

To me, the bigger question here is how Williams views Konerko, because swisher could also be their 1B

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 29, 2008 6:50 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yes, Rowand was better this year – but Swisher had the worst season of his career, and there are reasons to believe that he was very unlucky. Swisher is three years younger, and his career numbers are better than Rowand’s.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 3:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

One teeny weeny problem

Rowand has a limited no trade, and you don’t even know if the White Sox are on his list. While Swisher may be an upgrade over Rowand, to me this trade possibility is a big yawner. It doesn’t make the Giants any better.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Sep 29, 2008 7:36 PM PDT 0 recs

I sincerely doubt Rowand would block a trade to the White Sox. It’s where he started his career and still has friends on the team

To me, this is a big step for the Giants because while it’s a slight upgrade, Swisher brings something to the Giants they sorely lack (an above average bat and the ability to walk).

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 29, 2008 8:50 PM PDT up 0 recs

Isn’t the entire reason that Rowand singed here was to be closer to Vegas?

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by xanthan on Sep 30, 2008 5:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

I think it had more to do with

No other team would give him 50 million

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 30, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

60 million, actually.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Sep 30, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

I wouldn't be surprised if no team would give him 50

and Sabes just gave him 60 anyway.

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by iamawesomer on Sep 30, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, I was hearing 4/48

so, same salary but a full year less on the commitment.

I really don’t think Rowand is going to hold up for 5 years.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 30, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

By subtracting Rowand….by definition…..the Giants would be better, just less gamer.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Sep 30, 2008 8:29 AM PDT up 0 recs

fixed

By subtracting Rowand….by definition…..the Giants would be better, just less ~~gamer~~ gamier.

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up 0 recs

sooo

they would taste more like quail?

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by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 30, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

I was thinking more like a mountain goat. They eat scrappy goodness.

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

More Like.....

alligator. You know it tastes “just like chicken” :-)

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by nvsfg on Sep 30, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up 0 recs

buuuuuuuuuuuuurn

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by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up 0 recs

I like it

I haven’t researched it, but off the top I like this trade because it makes the Giants younger and more versatile. And Nick is one switch hitter who, unlike Pablo Sandoval and Neifi Perez, actually hits southpaws a bit better than righties.

Plus he used to go out with the sister of my daughter’s best friend. That’s the real reason I like it. :)

by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

Swisher is kind of a yutz though. His voice bothers me and he says dude too much. Very un-gamer. Although I guess Flannery might like it.

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by Gaahl on Sep 29, 2008 8:26 PM PDT 0 recs

Man, I can’t stand made up trade rumors with no basis in reality, other than we could use this guy and they could use that guy. Are there any rumors that we are discussing Swisher for Rowand with the White Sox? Of course not. Why don’t we discuss Rowand for Feliz while we’re at it?? We need a third baseman, and they love Rowand just like the White Sox do. And isn’t it funny that all the teams that had Rowand think he’s great and would love to have him back, while the team that has him would love to get rid of him?? Actually, I would guess the Giants love him too, but fans over here are just disappointed with his dismal second half. Rowand will be here next year, and hopefully he’ll get over his disappointment about the dimensions of ATT. He sure didn’t have a problem with the dimensions when the Giants’ offered him that big contract.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Sep 30, 2008 4:51 AM PDT 0 recs

Lunatic fringe here

Well, I see Swisher as a poor man’s Adam Dunn, and since I’m on record as not wanting anything to do with Dunn, I certainly don’t want Swisher.

your 2008 SF Giants: this isn’t totally insane, just really stupid

by Lyle on Sep 30, 2008 6:00 AM PDT 0 recs

Counter points.

lifted from cots.

5.3MM for ‘09, 6.75MM for 2010, 9MM for 2011, 10.25MM ( 1MM club buy out option) for 2012.
A grand total of 22.05 MM for 3 years or 30.3MM for 4 years of service. This player would be hitting the free agent market at either age 31 or 32. So if his numbers are good enough qualify as a compensated free agent he would probably get signed by some one.

Instead of
8MM for ‘09, 12 MM for 2010 12MM for 2012. 32MM for 3 years of service. This player will 34 when he would hit the free agent market. If his number were good enough to be compensated how likely some would forfeit the pick for him?

The money difference could be very helpful in either extending Cain and Tim or go towards signing a quality free agent to fill a area of need in the coming years.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

You're understating your own point

There’s no way on God’s green earth Adam Dunn gets 11 million. More like 16.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 30, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Thank you. I try to understate. Keeps my sarcasm and cynicism kind of in check.
Contract #2 is Rowand’s though. Was trying to show the other benefit to the theoretical move.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm curious

I value your opinion as highly as that of anyone here, Lyle. I’m curious as to why you’re down on Adam Dunn.

Incidentally, while Jay Bruce is a more athletic outfielder than his former teammate Dunn, I see a lot of comparisons between them as hitters, although Jay will likely hit a bit higher than Adam while not drawing as many walks. But while many thought when Bruce was called up that he would hit .300, I think he’ll be a 500-homer, lower average hitter such as Adam is.

Two winters ago a guy emailed me from over at John Sickels’ board and asked me if I thought Tim Lincecum or Bruce was the better prospect. I correctly said Tim, but I really undervalued Jay at that time.

I think I’ve got a decent bead on him now though, although if he hits around .300 clearly I am still undervaluing him. Jay finished this season at .254. When he was called up, I predicted .260. When Jay was batting in the .450’s after a couple of weeks up, I was laughing at myself — but still felt confident he would fall back.

The guy’s got good power though, and I believe he’s still just 21. And he DID draw more walks than I expected while striking out about as much as I thought. I would see the improved K/BB ratio as a positive sign for him.

Going into this season, Jay was the consensus #1 prospect, something Tim never achieved — although he should have. That same winter I tried to get Sickels to move Tim above the younger Phil Hughes and Homer Bailey to become John’s top pitching prospect. I failed, but I’ll bet John now wishes he had listened more carefully. :)

by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up 0 recs

Rog

I see that he led the majors in walks this year, so I’ll grant you that his .236 BA isn’t quite as horrendous as it would first appear – but it is pretty bad. I personally don’t like boom-or-bust hitters; he seems to only strikeout, walk, or hit a homerun. Maybe he reminds me of Dave Kingman too much (although I doubt Kong walked that much). Two things come to mind:

1. How un-valuable is a strikeout? That is, how much does it hurt in comparison to other kinds of outs? On the plus side, it avoids most double-plays (although the “strike ’em out, throw ’em out” version remains viable). On the other hand, it fails to advance any possible runners and, more significant to me, it gives no opportunity to the defensive team to make a mistake on an otherwise likely out. Just how large is that potential “gift,” and how does that compare to the avoidance of DP’s?

2. The example of Bonds circa 2001-2007: he walked a lot and hit a lot of homers. I found that more palatable because he also had a good BA – he wasn’t just a good old country boy who swung as hard as he could just in case he hit the ball. But even in Bonds’ case, the walks eventually became a detriment to the Giants offense (in my view), because it took the bat out of his hands. That doesn’t mean I want my 3-4-5 hitters to swing away at anything close, but clearly if you walk Bonds or Pujols you lessen the damage each might do to you. So, as I see it, walks can be very helpful; but they are more helpful (more important) when accrued by non-sluggers. If Burriss walked as much as Dunn, I think we’d all agree we had a highly valuable player. I think that’s because we don’t resent the “missed” hitting opportunity that a walk represents for Manny, because the odds of him getting an extra-base hit were fairly low. It’s like asking “what are we giving up to get this walk?” If we’re giving up XBH, that might not be our ideal option.

And yes, I realize that one reason for so many walks of Dunn (and Bonds previously) was that the pitchers wanted to minimize the damage they might cause – their “reputation” got them many of those walks. But, as I tried to say above, I don’t know that that’s such a great thing for the offense.

I’m not anti-walk. I just wonder what each batter gives up to get that walk.

I’d be happy to read your thoughts on this subject.

your 2008 SF Giants: this isn’t totally insane, just really stupid

by Lyle on Oct 1, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

If Burriss walked as much as Dunn, I think we’d all agree we had a highly valuable player. I think that’s because we don’t resent the "missed" hitting opportunity that a walk represents for Manny, because the odds of him getting an extra-base hit were fairly low. It’s like asking "what are we giving up to get this walk?" If we’re giving up XBH, that might not be our ideal option.

I see your point, but a walk is a walk is a walk. We can’t “punish” Dunn for hitting so many home runs. A Dunn walk helps the team just as much as a Burriss walk (maybe a bit less because of Emanuel’s speed).

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 1, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up 0 recs

Lyle

This very thing was covered in depth in the Zomg, Walks! fanpost.

Walks are nearly always good.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 1, 2008 7:27 PM PDT up 0 recs

3 way trade billy beane special

white sox: rowand
giants: sweeney/gio/de los santos
A’s: swisher

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 30, 2008 10:08 AM PDT 0 recs

now that’s rosterbation!

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 30, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

Rowand had success when batting down in the lineup, after a bunch of good hitters. He’d swing away and get the occassional big RBI. So Sabe/Boch move him to 3, 4, 5 in a weak lineup and a tough stadium. The 60M could have helped so much with the bailout, it’s a shame they threw it at Aaron. cool first name tho.

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by foothillsfan on Sep 30, 2008 1:31 PM PDT 0 recs

God calls him Scott

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

Just to add fuel to this fire

https://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=238582&src=162

See how this develops, I could see Swish asking for a trade.

Watching game 163, with Uribe at 3rd (no faith in Fields?) and Wise at LF over Swisher, I could see this turning bad if the Sox miss the playoffs.

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 30, 2008 5:38 PM PDT 0 recs

NeifiChicken for GM

Neifi did a nice job here of showing why the Giants should want Nick Swisher. Here’s the problem. The Giants’ GM is Brian Sabean. Sabean will look at Nick Swisher and see .219, and that is all he will see. This trade could never happen.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Sep 30, 2008 6:40 PM PDT 0 recs

and under 31.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Oct 1, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up 0 recs