The 2008 San Francisco Giants in Review
In March, optimism is supposed to waft through the air as if it were pollen. Even if you don’t want to inhale it, the optimism dust travels through your nasal cavity, through your sinuses, and into your lungs. After enough optimism, you eventually sneeze out something like, "Hey, you know, if Zito is the Zito of old, and Rowand hits 35 homers, this team could have a shot!" It takes more than a single Kleenex to get that sort of thing clean.
But that wasn’t going around these parts in March. No, no, no sir. There might have been one or two crazy optimists around, but the most you could get out of them would be a vague appeal to "you never know"-isms. The bar for a successful 2008 Giants season had nothing to do with contending. My hopes for the Giants were: a) just one of the semi-prospects establishing themselves, and b) Lincecum and Cain remaining healthy and effective. It was a two-part hope, and neither was particularly unrealistic. Most of y’all probably had a similar set of goals for the team.
Around July, though, it became clear that I was going to get what I wanted. Fred Lewis looked as if he could be a starting corner outfielder for a good team, and Cain and Lincecum were healthy and effective. Heck, Lincecum was blowing away the already optimistic expectations that were set for him. So both of my preseason goals were met! Hooray! Hoo…ray?
Then why, July Grant asked himself as a single tear rolled down his check, did I feel so unfulfilled? Expectations were low, but expectations were met. The Giants were on a righteous path of proper rebuilding. What was my problem? It was hard to single out just one thing. Omar Vizquel was playing every day while the only shortstop prospect in the system rotted on the bench, even though the prospect in question had little business above AA. The Giants went into March with two youngsters who we hoped could establish themselves at the second base position. One was broken, and one failed in his initial trial. If Rich Aurilia wasn’t in the lineup against a left-hander, there was a cavernous hole at both third and first base – which is just a heartbreaking qualifier to type – and there wasn’t anything promising in the upper levels of the system.
I had set the bar too low. If you expect your dog to chew up your wallet, but you also hope that he’ll leave one of your credit cards intact in its stool, don’t expect to do cartwheels when you’re picking out the credit card to rinse off. I was watching a team that lost more than it won, and after a few months of that, it was wearing on me.
So let’s all look back to August 14th, 2008: The Day of Magic. Jose Castillo was gone. Travis Ishikawa was up. It doesn’t sound like much, but after said Day of Magic:
- Emmanuel Burriss hit .366/.458/.437.
- Pablo Sandoval hit .345/.357/.490.
- Travis Ishikawa hit .274/.337/.432 (not great, but stay with me…).
- Eugenio Velez hit .330/.357/.477.
- Nate Schierholtz hit .320/.370/.493.
- Sergio Romo allowed eight baserunners in 17 innings without allowing a run.
- The Giants were 22-19.
Am I cherry-picking my end points by starting with Jose Castillo’s day of reckoning? Yes. Yes, I am. But I’m not trying to say that all of the above players are going to be great short-term options – you can poke holes in almost all of the above numbers if you really want to be a jerk. Not enough walks, not enough power, et cetera, et cetera. The Day of Magic only explains why my mood improved so much toward the end of the season. Young players were playing, and young players were raking. The Giants weren’t great, but they were winning more than they were losing.
This, combined with my original hopes for the season, made me feel like writing a sentence. There was no stopping the sentence, even if it seemed crazy delusional or if it seemed like I was trying to make lemonade out of the sweaty boxer shorts of Chet Lemon. And that sentence is this: The 2008 Giants season was a successful season for a rebuilding team to have.
Comment starter: Do you agree or disagree with the sentence?
1 recs |
86 comments
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Comments
Third!
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
At...
(wait for it)
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 29, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(waits)
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WORST!
(wait, that doesn’t sound right…)
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I wanted to be a cavernous hole! So I guess that leaves Zito unclaimed … alright.
Zito!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wonderin'
If your dog has one of those ID microchips, does the credit card get de-magnetized?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It hasn’t yet. I keep "storing" my wife’s card under the dogs bed at night.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Does This Mean That Keeping Sabean Was The Right Thing To Do?
To me at least the answer is clearly yes. I would also say the same thing for Bochy and his whole coaching staff.
by giantsrainman on Sep 29, 2008 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
The one thing I think we do need to change is to add a coach for walks. He needs to be able to teach the hitters how to take them and the pitchers how to avoid them.
by giantsrainman on Sep 29, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 29, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. You can’t get a grant for that.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A second job for Billy Sadler!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 29, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silly Sadler?
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 29, 2008 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, clearly that follows directly from this line of reasoning.
/shoots self in face
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Wouldn't Know That From All The Still Common Calling For Sabean's Head
by giantsrainman on Sep 29, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
arrrrrrrgh
I wish I hadn’t shot myself in the face a minute ago, so i could do it now.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry delorean, but I just can’t stop laughing at your frustration.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 29, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lawl
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 29, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reason why his head shouldn’t be called for?
/head explodes
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on Sep 29, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rowand signing was bad. The draft was good. Except for that, what did he really do? The Durham trade? Castillo? Bocock? He had an O.K. year, but he (or another GM) could have done better.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 29, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real reason August 14 was magical
is obviously because it was my birthday. Did I not mention I’m buddies with Sabean and Castle’s DFA was my one birthday wish he promised he’d fulfill? You’re welcome, McCoven.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can I vote for modifying "The Sentence" to
“not unsuccessful”
Also, I would like someone to look up the 2008 Zips+ other projections and compare the Giants actual numbers to them. Even cooler would be to use MLEs for the minors.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 29, 2008 3:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t not believe the season was not unsuccessful!
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought it was a fine season
not great, but not binge-drinking-inducingly bad. and i’m so glad we got an extended look at Travis Denker, especially when pretty much the entire 40-man roster was up at the end of this season. oh wait
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
by baetown415 on Sep 29, 2008 3:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to buzz this.
More people need to read that sentence about Chet Lemon.
Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.
by SF Pete on Sep 29, 2008 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They lit the light at the end of the tunnel.
Also, it seems obvious since he’s been so good all year that now we’re used to it….but Lincecum has blown away my expectations for him at the beginning of this year. I knew he could be the best pitcher in the league one day, I just didn’t know it was going to be today.
by hammystyle on Sep 29, 2008 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the winning at the end of the year was nice
but what really sways me are the emergences of burriss and sandoval (on top of flew’s already solid work to start the year). we wanted one marginal prospect to step forward and look like an everyday player or at least a potential everyday player. we got three.
lincecum and cain’s continued awesomeness, romo’s emergence, and wilson’s string of not-quite-blowing it were also quite good to see. Add in the fact that Schierholtz hasn’t failed yet as a prospect (he hasn’t really been given the chance to succeed either) plus a seemingly solid draft minor league season for a lot of guys and I’m pretty happy with the way things worked out.
Of course, moderation in all things, especially when those things are good and we’re talking about the Giants. There were also some major downers over the course of the season:
1) Rowand… please, please, please don’t become Zito-lite
2) Zito
3) Sanchez’s maddening inconsistency + shoulder injury makes me very nervous about his longterm future. I’d dangle him in trades now except I doubt any sane GMs would want him (QUICK! Dial up the Nationals!).
4) Correia doesn’t even really look like a very solid 5th starter anymore… not that him not pitching well is some kind of huge disappointment, but more a statement on the current state of the high minors where we really don’t seem to have any adequate replacements waiting. Basically, if the Giants want to fix the bottom half of the rotation from within the organization, it seems like they’ll just have to wait for Bumgarner and Alderson, which could still take a couple of years.
5) Dave Roberts is still on this team… ugh. nothing against the guy, but he’s got no business on a rebuilding roster.
6) Rumors of Cain trades persist, and I have to think it has something to do with his horrific luck. Look, unless some team offers us the moon, we have to keep the two really good young pitchers we have— if Cain had won 15 games this year (and even last year two) would he really be the object of so many trade rumors? I don’t think many think of it consciously, but I have to believe that his bad luck plays a role in his perceived availability.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 29, 2008 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
7) Castillo
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to take issue with #5… Dave Roberts would be an excellent bunting/baserunning coach on a rebuilding team. Not on the roster, I know….
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 29, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yawn
That’s my final verdict on the season. Bo. Ring. Aside from Timmy starts, I rarely enjoyed watching the team play. I’m not saying it would have been better to trainwreck toward 120 losses or anything, but my primary objectives as a Giants fan are something like 1) Feel what it’s like the moment your favorite team wins a World Series, and 2) enjoy the day in/day out of the season. There was no enjoyment for me. I mean, this team needed a late rally in game 162 to avoid scoring the fewest runs in baseball. Sure, there was a spark of hope in the last 2 months seeing some young(ish) players who might be something someday, but I’m not saving up my pennies to buy an Ishikawa jersey just yet. So I’m going to watch the playoffs, and then take a winter’s dose of football and college hoops to forget this season ever happened. Maybe next year will be more fun.
by Dailey247 on Sep 29, 2008 5:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Spark of in the last 2 months seeing some young plyaers who be something someday?
by Natto on Sep 29, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously a spambot
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 29, 2008 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Productive, but not as productive as it may seem
We were pleasantly surprised by the symbolic honor of winning one more game than last year.
A look at our Pythagorean numbers tells a different story, though:
2007: 77-85
2008: 68-94
Essentially, we subtracted Barry Bonds from the lineup, a few young players picked up a little of the slack but not all of it, and everything else stayed the same.
I’m still happy with the season as a rebuilding season, but we did get worse.
by rotorueter on Sep 29, 2008 5:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rebuilding will make a team worse, but the team is going in the right direction for the first time in a few years.
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What isn’t shown in Pythagoras’ little number projections is that we’re happy about the Lewis/Sandoval/Burris/(et. al.) Giants and not the Castillo/Durham/roberts Giants that are responsible for half of the statistics Pythagoras is using. This is the squad that played .500 ball… and I will be glad to have the team at around .500 next year (and the year after that, watch out – in the NL West anyway).
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 29, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I only wanted to point out that the raw win-loss totals are misleading.
I definitely think that the Giants, as currently constructed and healthy, has the potential to play .500 ball next year.
by rotorueter on Sep 29, 2008 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year, in half a year with SF, even though he had an .800 OPS, bottom line is three home runs, thirty-two RBI… not horrible, but not happy-making on a rebuilding club.
I actually like Ray – for years, my basic take on Ray was that Barry will do what Barry’s gonna do, but as Ray goes, so goes the Giants offense (Not this year, naturally and last year was really bad). Historically, his importance to the Giants’ offense has been huge.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 29, 2008 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of Ellis Burks in that sense
I liked Ellis….I’d have donated my knees if I thought he’d be around for a couple more years
by woomikee on Sep 30, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Counterpoint
o Durham was basically the best hitter on the team for 1/2 the season
o 4 rookies got hot and hit .320++ for 6 weeks
Neither of these things are likely to occur next year.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 30, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't count out the 1st one, He is a FA after all.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 30, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addendum to the Sentence:
‘in the first year of rebuilding’
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 29, 2008 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m still digesting the season. On the one hand, we got a look at some new kids who might be able to contribute. On the other hand, we got a look at some new kids that can’t contribute, but might still show up on next year’s roster anyways (I’m looking at you Eugeni-NO). On another hand (obviously I’m using a non-human species to keep track of my ramblings), we spent too much time with Castillo at the corner – he may have succeeded at not being Pedro Feliz, but he failed at being a decent player. We should scrounge up yet another hand to note that we did find some nice relief pitching in the end, to offset some horrific starting pitching and Tyler Walker (and does anybody even remember Vinnie Chulk? Seems so long ago).
My major pluses for the season:
- Timmy! (‘nuff said)
- Pablo! (’nuff said)
- A last season to enjoy Omar (gonna miss that defensive wizard)
- F-Lew
- DFA of Castillo
- McClain’s first major league HR (the guy deserved the chance, just by sheer determination)
Minuses?
- Rowand proving unworthy of $60 mil (we all suspected this, but he was REALLY not worth it, not just kinda not worth it)
- Bengie batting clean-up (I continue to be frustrated at the front office’s inability to sign a good power hitter, both when Bonds was still on the team and especially now)
- Only 94 HRs for the entire team on the season
- Velez’ defense (ack!)
- Poor Cain having the worst frakkin’ luck of any pitcher on the planet – he pitched much better than his record shows (I’d almost let him get traded just so he can maybe find a team that can score a damn run for him occasionally – he deserves it)
Anyhoo – I’ve got tons more bouncing around in my head. I’ll probably have to actually do something drastic like update my blarg with it as I can set it down in good writing words.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Sep 29, 2008 6:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Too long to read. Sorry.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Sep 29, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say any list of minuses has to include the 93 plate appearances given to a clearly not ready for prime time Brian Bocock.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Sep 30, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…which was easily offset by the positive of all the dick jokes his name provided
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was an awesome positive.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Sep 30, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good season for a rebuilding team, yeah. But I’m still pessimistic about the future, because management doesn’t seem to have learned a thing about how to value major-league talent, or even how to appraise the team’s needs.
by Evan on Sep 29, 2008 7:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I chose the 3rd option. If management takes what they have learned this year & applies it to building next year’s roster, then “Yes”. But if Molina & Winn are starting over Sandoval & Schierholtz on Opening Day, then this year could have been a big waste of our time.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Sep 30, 2008 6:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
If Molina and Winn are starting next season, what does that have to do with this one?
When was the last time you saw youngsters playing for the Giants as much as they did this season? HALF as much as they did this year?
What the heck was the median age for players who played for the Giants this year? About 26?
When was the last time the Giants actually had nine rookies on the field at the same time aside from a fight? When was the last time the Giants had nine rookies on the field at the same time even DURING a fight?
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time the Giants had nine rookies on the field at the same time even DURING a fight?
: Daveinexile gives a standing ovation
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goofus stands up to see over daveinexile to see what all the fuss is about
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was a successful season. Reader-friendly bullet points:
— The Giants acquired some promising young hitters, including Buster Posey, Conor Gillaspie, Rafael Rodriguez, etc.
— The top prospects either held steady or boosted their stock. Bumgarner had a breakout season, Alderson was pretty damn good and Villalona held his own. Noonan got great scouting reviews, even if his numbers weren’t.
— Several young hitters made the majors. Pablo Sandoval and Travis Ishikawa pretty much came out of nowhere. Manny Burriss really came on at the end of the year.
— Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain led the rotation. Jonathan Sanchez maintained a good strikeout rate in a whole season of starting.
by Dan from NM on Sep 29, 2008 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted yes
I thought 2008 was a successful season for a rebuilding team because the Giants got much younger, a few of the youngsters surprised and perhaps most important of all, many of the big guys in the low minors had seasons that indicated they might help out next decade. In addition, the Giants’ draft looks quite good.
Best developments of the year: Madison Bumgarner and Pablo Sandoval. Tim Lincecum I expected.
by sharksrog on Sep 29, 2008 7:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely yes
Started with no horrendous trades over the winter. Continued with an interesting draft. I really hated last year because we weren’t going anywhere with Bonds and I really wanted to get to the other side of the Great Divide, much as I enjoyed watching Barry hit.
Things I didn’t like that haven’t been mentioned — the length of the Bocock-up, the fact that Rowand was never rested (looking at first half numbers, I think that would have helped a lot), Manny on the Dodgers
by NearestNorwich on Sep 29, 2008 8:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rowand not getting rested..
A veteran needs to play through is slump!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 29, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given
Given that Barry played only one position and that the guy who first replaced him was Dave Roberts, what was it about Barry that prevented the Giants from rebuilding? They were able to do so this season with Roberts, Yabu, Vizquel, Durham, Winn and Molina on the roster.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way back when I called it All Year Spring Training...
…I had no idea it would come true!
I really feel bad that Correia regressed , and I’m certain some stathound will point out that Zito sucked worse this year than last – but didn’t he have a couple of masterful performances?
(Granted , that’s a couple dozen too few…)
Here’s hoping that after the league adjusts to Sandoval…Sandoval adjusts back!
And I’m still waiting for whomever posited that catching will preserve his knees to expound on that…
I hope for a longer string of flashes of brilliance next year.
And that we trade Cain so we get the NO RUN SUPPORT monkey off our backs.
Jeez , Matt , you really suck!
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 29, 2008 8:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not worse?
Who is going to tell us that Barry Zito WASN’T worse in 2008 than 2007? Are you going to point to his strong finish this year? He had one in 2007, as well.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, did I coin the term “semi-prospects?” Probably not. But I did start using it without having ever seen it before. It’s just such an apt description…
So as I see it,
Positive:
Lincecum
Cain
Lewis
Bumgarner
Alderson
Burriss
Sandoval
Sanchez (yes, even with the second half)
Winn (a very insignificant positive)
Wilson (regardless of naysayers)
Romo
draft
Negatives:
Hennessey
Misch
Zito
Lowry
Correia
Walker
Chulk
Velez (mostly)
Rowand
Aurilia sticking around
Castillo
Bowker
Frandsen
So, overall, there were more negative seasons than positive ones. But Lincecum/Cain/Bumgarner/Lewis/Sandoval were such good positives that they outweigh the negatives in my mind.
Therefore, this season was a positive one. And, let’s face it, the past several years had been such a waste because of delusions of contention that the modest gains made in this season look fantastic in comparison.
Still, even with being aware of the preceding facts, I’m happy about this season.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Sep 29, 2008 9:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thehavenot is standing
pat on his ass essment
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 29, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pat on his ass
From who?
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Sep 30, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
from whom
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 30, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is kind of embarrassing to admit
but, even as someone who teaches a reading and writing class, I still am a little fuzzy on the rules for who and whom.
However, it is my understanding the who is when speaking of the subject and whom is when speaking of the object. And in this case, the person doing the patting on the ass would be the subject. I believe that is correct…
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Sep 30, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
won’t get fooled again
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case, you’re not dealing with the grammatical structure of the whole sentence but just of the prepositional phrase. It’s the object of the preposition, so it has to be “whom.”
There may be some exceptions, but generally whenever the preceding word is a preposition, you should use “whom.”
by Evan on Sep 30, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Negatives list
Made me wish we could literally bring out cut it off like leg with gangrene.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 30, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! Nice work. The only nit I can pick is Bowker. For a guy that should have spent most of the season in AAA spending it learn a new position at the MLB level and still provided the team with 10% of its HR’s. I am not stoked about him but I view him as a plus this season. He developed and will only be 25 next season.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I put Bowker as a negative because
of how he ended the season, mostly. He’s a very marginal negative, in my mind. I am the resident Bowker backer, after all. I still think Bowker can do well in the majors. But the way he flailed at everything before he was sent down makes him a negative. That’s not to say he will be a negative next season. I haven’t closed the book on most of those negatives (aside from Zito, pretty much).
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Sep 30, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get were your coming from.
I am just looking more at what i thought in March or April vs. what happened.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the early advancement turned velez into a giant newt
but he got better.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 30, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
“The 2008 Giants season was a successful season for a rebuilding team to have.”
I disagree, but it’s definitional quibbling rather than with any of the positives listed above. I think the 2008 season was a successful season for many of the the individual players, but it wasn’t for the team. The random shuffle of players from A-ball finally posted a couple of positives, but the team didn’t make moves special to a “rebuilding” team that would make it a successful season. Plus some sucky things happened this year that balance against the positives many people have been noting. I’ll try to discuss failures at the individual level and team level.
The negatives:
- Position players: At the individual Franny loses a tendon, and a season of development. The team misses out on evaluating him for the 2nd/3rd baseman job, and can’t be sure he will live up to whatever promise he had after missing such a vital year in his learning curve and coming off his end of 2007 success. Also, remember Ortmeier? Rajai Davis? Those two guys we thought might maybe perhaps be something. What now?
- Corriea, Misch, Lowry, and Hennessey all have season dripping in stink, for various reasons, putting them all into the “reclamation project” zone. The Giants’ depth at SP goes in the dumps, with no organizational relief in the pipes for next year. All four have had trade value in the past, and might have brought something back if they had a decent year in 2008. The only one that will be on the team next year for sure is also the only one that may never pitch again (which suck ‘cause he’s a personal fav): Lowry. The others might not even get offered arbitration.
- No trades that brought back prospects we’re excited about. In 2007, Sweeney netted Denker. In 2008, Durham got us Hammond and Ford. Maybe, I’m a bit excited for Ford, and maybe I’m forgetting someone (very possible). Winn did his average, undervalued roll player dance up to the trade deadline then decided to hit .350/450/550 or whatever for the rest of the season. Roberts decided to take a DL vacation. As noted above, potentially trade-worthy pitchers wrecked their value (also see Walker, Chulk, and other relievers.) Now, I don’t blame management and Sabes for not trading Winn, et al – it very well could have been that partners were not offering the snazzy prospects or proper value, and the road taken was the wiser choice. We can’t know for sure. But from a rebuilding team perspective, I want trades “rebuilding” the team. I didn’t see that.
- Bochy. Can we at least see if lefties can hit lefties. If it hurts the kid’s feelings to strikeout three times versus the Old Unit, take them out for ice cream after the game like in little league. Can we see Denk, Rohl, Gill, Burr, play? I’m not convinced he is the guy to lead this team through a rebuilding phase.
2008 saw a strength – middling prospects and cheap young guys filling out the bottom end of the rotation and spots in the bullpen, go to a gapping hole, even as middling prospects emerged in the everyday player roles, and couple of relievers established themselves. Some guys we were excited about at the end of last year are gone or big quiestion marks for next year. Nothing really got done via trades.
All the same, some of the players given a shot this year did well and show promise. The front office, participated in the draft, and scouted Domincan players, and grabbed some exciting guys. Not only did Lincecum and Cain stay healthy and perfrom, but so did MadBum, T2, Noonan, AnVil. But that could have happened for ANY team. The only thing that marks the above as a “rebuilding team” is the 5th pick of Posey, other than that we could be talking about a team that won a lot of games last year, and a bunch of games this year. But at the major league level, the team took a step forward (for the most part, position players) and a step back (pitching + Fran, Ort, Davis). Yeah, Sanchez showed his stuff too, but 4 4th-5th starters (and Lowry was once a top of the rotation guy but not going into 2008) would have given the Giants a foundation from which to deal. For me, losing that is the biggest negative in 2008. For me, the team maybe made a little progress, but has mostly tread water.
Still, from a rebuilding team perspective the season isn’t quite done. Trades could still be made. Winn has had a hot end of the year. He is a solid cog in any lineup and a star in the Giants’, and that makes hims the most obvious target. I think now is the the time to take and make offers.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Sep 30, 2008 7:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a third base prospect
Kevin Frandsen isn’t a third bas prospect. Hopefully he will hit well enough to play second base on a regular basis. Right now I could see him in a semi-platoon with Eugenio Velez (and bring Kevin in for defense as soon as the Giants get ahead! :).
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well we could end up with a 3 headed third base “beast?” of Frandsen and Pablo seeing some time there and some one like Aurilia. It would not be pretty but its a damn site easier on the eyes and hart then A Joe Castle The Sequal route or An Edgardo Alfonzo the Sequel ( Crede, Blalock) there.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis and Ortmeier
I’m not entirely sure why the Giants gave up on Rajai so quickly. He did get off to a horrible start, so I guess they just lost patience.
As for Dan, he never appeared to be much of a player, anyway. I hope he’s able to bounce back, but I would presume it would be with another organization.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you find yourself thinking they gave up on Davis too early, do what I did and look up his numbers this year.
You’ll feel better about the decision.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 30, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always felt good about that one.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Sep 30, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
If the Giants can’t find a fifth starter from among Correia, Hennessey and Misch (assuming Lowry is out), they’re not trying hard enough IMO. Even Barry Zito was a decent fifth starter this season.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lefties
Fred Lewis, Nate Schierholtz and Emmanuel Burriss have shown they can hit lefties. John Bowker, Travis Ishikawa, Eugenio Velez and even Pablo Sandoval have not. The Giants really need right-handed hitting, which could lead to Rich Aurilia and/or Scott McClain being back.
And the Giants WILL have Kevin Frandsen available from the right side.
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Disappointed
I was disappointed in both Angel Villalona’s and particularly Nick Noonan’s seasons. Both players hit a little but had horrendous K/BB ratios. I certainly wouldn’t give up on them (quite the contrary). I’m just wondering if they are as good as I thought they were.
AnVil was certainly young for the league, but at just one year and 12 days older, Mad Bum dominated it as it hasn’t been dominated in years.
Charlie Culberson was pretty awful at Augusta, as well. So was Jackson Williams, although Williams came on a bit when promoted to San Jose.
Wendell Fairley got off to a slow start in the Rookie League, but he kept raising his average 40 points each month, and he was able to get on base almost from day one. Didn’t show a lick of power, but might he be Freddie Lewis Two and with a higher ceiling?
by sharksrog on Sep 30, 2008 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not bad for a transitional season.
The biggest downer, in my mind, was the end to Sanchez’s year, as he reverted from a good-looking #3 to an intriguing question mark again. Zito was obviously a mess, but I still think he could resurrect himself into a #4. The struggles of guys like Correia, Misch and Hennessey don’t bother me; a solid home-grown fifth starter is a cute luxury, but by no means important. We can sign a couple iffy guys for that slot any time we need to. The bullpen has a few interesting guys in it. Overall, the pitching’s in decent shape, and in actively good shape if Sanchez learns some consistency.
The lineup was gross, but maybe less gross than advertised. Fred Lewis is a guy we can just plug into the lineup and not worry about, which is nice. Winn and Molina made themselves somewhat more desirable trading chips for ‘09. Rowand wasn’t great, but I have trouble regarding his presence as a real problem.
Really, the direction of this franchise comes down to exactly how many real players there are between Ishikawa, Sandoval, Schierholtz and Burriss (and Bowker, Velez and Ochoa, but I’m not seeing much in any of them). I think the safe bet is between one and two. Burriss doesn’t have the exemplary skills you need to be a viable player without any semblance of power. Nate had another good year in the minors and hit better when called up, but the combo of low walks and moderate power isn’t likely to cut it long-term. I believe in Ishikawa more than most — Ortmeier he certainly ain’t — but to project him as anything more than an average platooning first baseman at this point would be wildly premature.
Pablo? I think I believe in Pablo. He got the longest look of any of the four, and did quite well. He walked at an absurdly low rate in the majors, but struck out at an absurdly low rate, too… you can theoretically get by doing that. There are still real growing pains ahead of Pablo, but he seems like he’ll be a real player. Pretty awesome.
Infield problems persist, but the bleeding has stopped. No complaints here.
by onlxn on Sep 30, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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