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Who to trade?

Sbc_park_tiny by baetown415 on

First day of the off season (for us Giants fans anyway) and I think the time's right for inane (and not so crazy but probably unlikely) roster moves. Normally, I don't think this does much good, aside from giving me fantasies about getting rid of people, but I think this might be a good way to release pent-up frustration that we've had throughout this season.

Star-divide

I'll start with a highly unlikely and partially stupid, and possibly incredibly rash decision:

Trade Aaron Rowand.

Now, I think no team would take him after the season he had, but if I had to choose one team that MIGHT possibly take him, I'd guess the White Sox. The problem here is that, well, the Sox don't exactly have any good prospects outside of Aaron Poreda (who I think Kenny Williams would deem "untouchable" right now) and they're probably extremely reluctant to trade any of their everyday guys for just Rowand. So I guess I fail.

 

What about you people?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Matt Cain

in all seriousness, though, don’t sell low on Rowand.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 11:04 AM PDT   0 recs

He was godawful

but you’ve gotta believe he wasn’t whole

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 1:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Randy Winn

If we’re shopping an outfielder, let’s sell high rather than sell low. Winn is coming off a second consecutive solid season.

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 11:16 AM PDT   0 recs

Winn and Molina make the most sense

But I could also be persuaded that both should be kept. Nice position to be in- only take a deal if it’s really NAHSS!

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Sep 29, 2008 2:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Problem is....

…you can’t sell high on Winn if nobody wants him. That seems to be the general consensus around baseball. Giants offered him around and there were no takers.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Sep 29, 2008 5:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Grab some lunch, meat

If we can’t sell Winn high, we must make every effort to sell him medium.

Or, slice him thin and pass him around the league as coldcuts.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe

Rowand faded so horribly because by this time he’d already crashed into a wall or fought a moose or something gamery and spent some time on the DL

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 29, 2008 11:19 AM PDT   0 recs

Winn — I think a decent prospect could be had. Even a higher level pitching prospect may not be a bad idea, to strengthen our ill-perceived “depth”

Roberts — Just get rid of the guy. I’d take a single-A failed prospect or an oft-injured former-prospect, or any kind of project. Anything, really.

Molina — I wouldn’t mind if he wasn’t traded, but he had a solid season, has value attached to his name, and I think he could fetch a decent prospect. I’d be very comfortable with Pablo/Holm holding the reigns until Posey comes around.

Wilson – 41 shiny saves! Again, I’d be happy to keep him but I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to shop him and see if anyone feels like overpaying for a closer, as many have been known to do. Romo could certainly hold the “closer” role if need be.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 11:37 AM PDT   0 recs

Wilson?

If one were to trade Wilson, with whom would you replace him?

I just cannot get past the 5 years of futility we have suffered through up till ’08 since Nen went down. While Wilson is not Nen, he is leaps and bounds better than Worrell, Hermandson, Herges, Walker, and Benitez comibined. Not to mention any of the other incapable names we have suffered with during this period.

So, I respectfully disagree with trading Wilson.

by toofruss on Sep 29, 2008 12:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Romo

And I don’t think there’s any way one could say that he was better this year than Worrell was in 2003. Worrell had a pretty damn good season in 2003.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 29, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This isn’t necessarily saying that I think we should trade Wilson at all costs, but to label him untouchable would be a huge mistake.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 29, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually I think it would be a huge mistake. Keep Romo off the block as well. With both of them on the roster there is still room for improvement in the ‘pen and as frustrated as we have been in recent years over that area, I don’t think trading what is good to improve the offense is the way to go.

That’s all I’m sayin!!

Especially since we will have money to spend through FA while we wait for all of that wonderful position talent we have in Low A ball to develop.

by toofruss on Sep 29, 2008 1:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You've got to give to gain

When you trade to improve the offense, you are trading something good to make something else good.

The idea, of course, is to trade something good from an area of relative strength to help repair an area of utter weakness. The bullpen is not elite, but it is higher on the foodchain than our underfed offense.

I do see your argument that both areas are weak, so such a trade could create as big a weakness as it potentially solves.

But a word of caution: Sabean has for years now been a dunce when he dances in the FA market.

And Giant fans who rely on the farm system will learn to regret it. We seem to be high in the cycle now, but it has more often been a Dustbowl than a Horn of Plenty.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So you would rather have Sabean pulling the trade trigger than the FA trigger?

Personally I’m a bit more happy with his FA record than his trade record to tell you the truth, and now that he has real money to spend and not forced to build around ticket sales using a thin budget margin I’d be interested to see what happens.

by toofruss on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Trades are rare, but Sabean has crippled the Giants with his recent FAs

How about just two? — $30 million-plus ( 1/3 of your payroll) a year for Zito and Rowand for the next four years, and then Zito at $20 million for a fifth year.

Those signings alone would earn many GMs their walking papers.

But I stated below I think Sabean — now VERY conservative because of his FA foray failures — stands pat with his young talent and PRAYS more is forthcoming from the farm.

Even marginal continued success with his minor league strategy is likely to keep him employed — his ultimate goal.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn’t say crippled. We aren’t going to get value from those contracts but we are going to get SOME production. Youth is VERY cheap. So those contracts are not going to put us in too much trouble. Especially when Winn, Molina, and Roberts all come off after next season.

The new managing general partner will not allow Sabean to stand pat I’m afraid. We are going to make some moves this off season so that Newcome can start to put his fingerprint on the team.

I just would HATE to see us trade either of the two solid building blocks in the ’pen when this part of the team has been the most damaging to our record for the longest period of time.

by toofruss on Sep 29, 2008 3:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There is some minimal value to Zito and Rowand,

but you don’t build winners with wildly expensive, marginal contributors such as these. In fact, you destroy franchises.

It’s a crippler, in that our GM is now FORCED to go with a minor league strategy. He’s effectively cut himself off from a formerly valuable source of talent — the FA market.

Sabean’s bum FA deals have stripped him of his confidence, and his wallet.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 4:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, my point is that he is not cut off. He has about 40M per year WITH Zito and Rowand on the payroll. Make that about 50M+ next year. So I respectfully disagree.

by toofruss on Sep 29, 2008 5:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Neither!

The free agent market this year is like Huge Chinese finger puzzle with many sharp edges for the Giants. The more they struggle and mess with it the more trouble they will be getting in. The Inf help list is real small and extremely suspect.

The only help that might be there would be a cheep end of the rotation starter for 1 year or two contract that will produce better then the 110 IP of dreck Correia gave the team. There could be a talented reliever but I really hate seeing a team not named the Dodgers spend much on middle relief help. It such a freaking crap shut.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 30, 2008 10:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But Wilson is under our control, which means a lot.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 12:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

so is Romo

and if he’s traded, the other team would recognize that controlling him would mean giving up more value. His being controlled could be a benefit either way.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 12:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My point was that Wilson’s 2008 was more significant than Worrell’s because he did it at younger age while under control.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 3:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like how 2008

is not considered futile.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 29, 2008 12:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it’s a bit too soon to start pilling wood on the "Trade Wilson" fire.

If the Giants had 3 good arms they can reasonable expect to be competent out of the pen I would be a lot more in the "shop him" camp. Right now I feel the Giants only have 2. I don’t think the Giants will get a WOW! Type offer at this point for him. And frankly if there is interest in a reliever that has some MLB experience in December it will be there tell July or that reliever totally blows up.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If you don’t get a ridiculous offer, you don’t trade him. That’s pretty simple.

Teams who are looking for a closer are gonna take a look at K-Rod’s demands, and suddenly Wilson will start to look awful shiny. Like I say, unless you get better than fair return on WIlson, you don’t move him.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

exactly what I was thinking.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 12:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

BFFs?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 12:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Best Friend Forevers?

And here I thought you were literate.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 29, 2008 1:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

sure, baby.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 2:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’ve always thought you two would be cute together

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 3:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

UnleashTheDelorean

I like the sound of that.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marty McPenisButter

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have no problem with that. Just it seems the more a name is batted around like this the quicker he goes form " Make me an offer I can’t refuse’ to "take him please !" around these parts. And I am currently staunchly against the last camp.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I actually think

Wilson’s trade value is likely to go UP in 2009 if he rachets off another 35+ SV. So it would have to be an amazing offer for me to trade him now. His peripherals are not great, but I don’t really expect him to pitch better next year, just rack up another bunch of saves for a badish team.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 29, 2008 12:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes. I don’t think GMs are so seduced by the shininess of saves that they really consider Wilson a proven closer yet. But if he has the same year again in 2009, they will.

by Evan on Sep 29, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That’s a fair point. I wonder if he’ll get 35 saves though. I think he probably will, but there’s a part of me that worries that he won’t.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 1:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't trade Rowand...

…simply put, we should trade who we can replace. Please don’t replace him yet.

Trade Winn. We have Nate just about ready to go, and who simply did nothing to embarrass himself again this season. We’re wasting time with him. Focus on a trade of him and one of the pitching prospects to the Mets for Daniel Murphy. Murphy really increased his value with a late call-up, but he’s a third baseman blocked by Wright, and playing bad ball in left field (if he’d qualified in the stats, he’d have been last in fielding percentage, and in the bottom half with ZR and RF. The Mets need a consistent offensive presence in the outfield, and Winn would be a better corner outfielder by far than anyone else they have right now. There are a lot of options in free agency, but also a lot of competition, and Winn would allow them to get a star at the other corner and give the team a competitive, team player that the Mets could use right now.

That’s my opinion, anyway.

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!

by BruteSentiment on Sep 29, 2008 11:47 AM PDT   0 recs

But why isn’t moving Winn to center and slotting Nate into right replacing Rowand? You replace his bat with Nate and his glove with Winn. Nate would look to have as much power as Rowand if not more, and no matter what you say about his bat his range and arm issues in center are certain to get worse (and arms tend to get worse in a hurry—he could easily be Johnny Damon out there before this contract is up). That seems like a decent replacement plan to me; an upgrade even.

Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!

by Roger on Sep 29, 2008 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

selling high on winn makes some sense

i don’t know if the mets would be the best target, but it’s possible. that said, does anyone really expect sabean to do it? for whatever reason, it seems like he’s focused in on molina as the vet we can trade now. i wonder if, perhaps, a team like the red sox would be interested in bengie… in a number of ways he’d be a really nice short term fit for them, and their farm system is fairly stacked, so we could conceivably get some decent prospects back for him.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Sep 29, 2008 12:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about a Cain+Winn+Prospect for David Wright then… aim high

by lincysgiants on Sep 29, 2008 2:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

heh

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do not trade Rowand. He’s not as bad as he was in the second half this year and trading him now would be pretty much the ultimate example of selling low.

I really do think they ought to trade Winn, but as has been said a million times before, I don’t think it makes sense to trade him for the sake of trading him.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 29, 2008 11:54 AM PDT   0 recs

And I’d definitely dangle Molina out there and see what sort of offers we can get for him.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 29, 2008 11:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

that might prove to be a challenge, dangling that big guy.

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 29, 2008 12:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You could strain an oblique trying that.

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 12:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As a “big guy” myself, I can confirm that I usually get all kinds of offers when I dangle out there.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 12:27 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

too far?

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 29, 2008 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

if youre not getting any offers youre just not dangling far enough

by lincypoo i wuv u on Sep 30, 2008 2:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wilson

Unsustainable save rate. Shiny shiny save stat. All Star. Best chance to get a position player w/o decimating the rotation.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 12:13 PM PDT   0 recs

Pretty much a textbook case of when to sell high.

by rotorueter on Sep 29, 2008 12:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

(looks both ways, slips roto and del a folded note)

CHECK!

-anonymous

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Beane makes this trade yesterday

But Sabean, who paid approximately $8 million a year for NO REAL CLOSER between 2003 and 2007, will make this trade when it is MUCH TOO LATE.

Wilson is cheap, and allows Sabean to make his gross contract errors elsewhere. That’s comforting to our GM.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 1:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

unsustainable?

OK, so he saved 87%. If he was a more league average 80, it would be 37.6 SV. And we can (hopefully) assume his saves will get easier as the Giants offense gets better.

Furthermore, anyone who is smart enough to look at SAVE RATE is smart enough to realize that sv/sv rate/all-star is badly overvaluing BW.

If he was the weak link an an otherwise solid bullpen, I would me more inclined to deal him now, rather than wait a year, but the bullpen wasn’t great, and replacing Wilson with waiver-wire fodder + next least bad guy in AAA doesn’t really seem like a division winning strategy.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 29, 2008 2:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I dunno

There are fewer sucker GMs now than there were a year ago (tips 40 for Dave Littlefield), but people still make bad deals.

Like I said, if you don’t get a monster return for WIlson, you don’t move him. But he’s not untouchable either (IMO).

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This...

…is why I’m not thrilled with the idea of trading Wilson. If you do and move Romo into the closer roll, now you’ve got yourself a big Romo-sized hole (a “holmo”?) in the 8th. Romo.

I suppose if Valdez comes back healthy, he could fill Romo’s hole, but I wouldn’t count on that.

I like the idea of Wilson/Romo/Hinshaw/Valdez meaning we don’t have to worry about the bullpen for years.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm on a crusade

We in the bay area have seen enough Holmoes to last a lifetime.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 3:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Steve Holmosexual?

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he could fill Romo’s hole

This Romosexual thing has gone too far.

by Evan on Sep 29, 2008 3:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Romholes and Holmoes.

I’m leaving this town.

by Moggeee on Sep 29, 2008 3:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Promises, promises

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Sep 29, 2008 4:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds like the Folsom Street Fair to me

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 29, 2008 4:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

outside of cain/cumster/maybe wilson

the giants dont have many marketable players

could trade sanchez but his season was a bit underwhelming towards the end
the contracts with winn/rowand are issues

henn/orreia i guess could be DFA candidates

some say trade wilson, but who replaces him. back to not having a decent closer

the giants have option of trading pitching depth or getting those bats via free agency

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 29, 2008 12:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Cumster?

Let’s put that to rest right here and now, shall we?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 29, 2008 12:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nickname Graveyard

Cumster

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 29, 2008 1:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cumster Johnson

Best porn name….EVER!

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How is Winn’s contract an issue? It has one year left at a relative bargain $8.25M. I’d say that makes him more attractive.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 29, 2008 12:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd say..

$8.25M isn’t actually a bargain, but fair money. But for fair money, you’re not going to get much.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 29, 2008 12:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it's a Winn/Winn situation, really.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 12:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

FWIW

Using the WAR calculator, Winn was worth about 12.5m$ in 2008, maybe a bit more (I put him at 5 defensive runs above average, but he might be closer to 10). We should expect some decline in 2009, though.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Sep 29, 2008 2:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That may be so, but also people and general managers look at him and say, “Randy Winn? 8.25 million? Really?”

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 29, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I still think

that Hennessy/Correia would be decent 5th starters on this team. They are pretty cheap and are pretty OK for injury replacements.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 29, 2008 12:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs