Matt Cain Trade Talk: A Main Page Exclusive!
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 26, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
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PrintIt’s about time to broach a subject that hasn’t been broached before on this site: Trading Matt Cain.
I know, I know, it’s weird that we’ve all been in this fog of collective ignorance, not even daring to think about the kind of returns Cain would bring. He might bring back that Big Bat that is the difference between 90 losses and 90 wins. Forget that even if we kept Cain and added a big bat, the Giants wouldn’t sniff 90 wins in a 262-game season. That’s Daniel Doubter talk. You’re not a Daniel Doubter, are you?
See, the Giants have all sorts of depth in the rotation. They have too many starters, actually. And they need hitting. So, ergo post prompter hoc decisis, it makes sense to trade pitching for hitting. So the first thing the Giants need to do is get…
Wait. Where’s that depth? I know I left it around here somewhere.
*looks under cushions*
Dammit. That depth is always in the last place you look.
*checks pockets of a jacket I haven’t worn in months*
Wow. This is awkward. Apparently, Jonathan Sanchez had a brutal second half, Barry Zito is barely good enough to crack a rotation, Noah Lowry has a bizarre injury that is still hurting him, and Brad Hennessey, Kevin Correia, and Pat Misch all skipped through the terrible aisle at Target and maxed out their credit cards. So the depth of which we spoke is actually:
- Tim Lincecum
- Matt Cain
Oh, my. Awkward.
The free-agent market is pretty well stocked with starters this offseason, and it features a nice mix of ace-types, reclamation projects, and innings eaters. But the Giants should be super-duper wary of investing a whole bunch of money into a starting pitcher. If the Giants were to sign, say, Ben Sheets, the team would have about 1/3rd of their payroll committed to two starting pitchers. That’d be beyond silly.
Last year’s mantra: Trade Noah Lowry or Jonathan Sanchez for a third-baseman! This year’s mantra: For the love of Bonds, just hang on to what we’ve got for a year, and we’ll see where we are at the end of next year. The vaunted starting pitching depth of last offseason? Poof. And seeing as the Giants are probably three good hitters from even an average lineup, this isn’t the time to trade a rotation pillar to fill a single hole.
Erik Bedard was traded with two years left before free agency. He still brought back a sweet return. Patience, Sabes. Hope that Pat Misch figures out a way to continue striking people out while avoiding home runs. Hope that Noah Lowry can come back from a freaky ailment to help recapture some of the depth. Hope Jaime Moyer wants to pitch in a better park for pitchers than Citizen’s Bank and signs a short-term deal. Hope that Madison Bumgarner or Tim Alderson can prove that they’re advanced enough to crowd the rotation sooner rather than later.
I’m glad I was the first one in the history of the site to think this topic through, and I thank you for your time.
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Totally agree that Giants fans have a big tendency to overrate the rotational depth.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
It's totally understandable
The Giants did have depth at the beginning of this season. They were incredibly deep. It’s just hard to pay attention to when things change. Especially when that change comes all gradual and stuff.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Moyer
I barely know ‘er, and I definitely don’t want ’er!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
He’s actually older than you are.
That’s pretty cool.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
>>And seeing as the Giants are probably three good hitters from even an average lineup, this isn’t the time to trade a rotation pillar to fill a single hole.<<
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 26, 2008 12:42 PM PDT reply actions
suffice it to say that I agree with the above
I LOVE RANDOM TEXT FORMATTING!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 26, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Minor correction, and JR Phillips Statement of the Offseason:
The correction:
If the Giants were to sign, say, Ben Sheets, the team would have about 1/3rd of their payroll committed to an awful starter and an always-injured starter.
You’re welcome.
If you think about it, replacing Cain with Sheets would be pretty awesome. Until you consider Sheets is always injured and Cain is not, and Sheets will cost a lot of money, while Cain does not. Then the whole notion of trading Cain for a big league slugger and signing a pitcher in free agency… So you end up overpaying for free agent pitcher, and have to sign big slugger to a new contract for lots of money IF he works out. How many ways can we all spell ‘dumb idea?’
In a situation like the Giants are in, where very good talent is a rare commodity, trading one valuable established major leaguer for ONE other valuable established major leaguer (of approximately equal value) DOES NOT improve this team!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
One finger, two dikes.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 26, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If the last 6 weeks
have done anything, it’s helped firm up their 2009 pitching situation. At this point, Lowry, Correia, Misch, and probably Hennessey don’t figure into the rotation next year. They can really only count on Lincecum, Cain, and Zito, and probably Sanchez next year, although I would be open to dealing Sanchez for help elsewhere in a package in the offseason.
So they have one and perhaps two rotation slots to fill for 2009, on a team that isn’t going to compete unless they get really lucky in picking up a power hitting 3B and 2B in the offseason. If you are going to fill a couple of rotation holes for next season, why not plan to have some of the High A or AA kids audition for the 4th or 5th slot? I’m not thinking of MadBum or Alderson here, but the guys just above them.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
maybe you mean Probably Sanchez.
Possibly Sanchez is from a different part of the island.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
Sign Greg Maddux. Keep Cain. Let Maddux teach our young kids how to hit their spots. Shit make him the pitching coach too.
1) Sign Greg Maddux, let him teach our young kids how to hit their spots.
2) Sign Randy Johnson, let him our young kids how to strike out 11 guys per game.
3) Sign Barry Bonds, let him teach our young kids how to hit more HR’s than anyone, ever.
4) ???
5) Dynasty!
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Another thing to note, if there are a bunch of starters available in free agency (which there are, of many different varieties), then Matt Cain’s trade value will be much lower.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
what we need to do is...
…wait until there’s an actual confirmable Matt Cain Trade Rumor (MCTR) before discussing any MCTRs. Actual MCTRs are not those made up by sportswriters and/or Cardinals’ or Brewers’ or Phillies’ fans. Actual MCTRs are those that involve trade discussions, offers/rejections, negotiations between the Giants GM and another team’s GM.
Otherwise, it’s just a big waste of 1’s and 0’s.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 26, 2008 1:11 PM PDT reply actions
There is one exception to this case. MCTRs may come from Wisconsin media because it seems they have their finger on the pulse of the Giants front office.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Sep 26, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Your opinions intrigue me. How can I get you news letter?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
I begrudgingly agree.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 26, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
It is for the greater good of USC losing because USC is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked, but Oregon State…ew.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 26, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
but that makes Cal look worse
because it makes USC, the only great team in the Pac 10, look shitty. Now Cal looks like they’re playing nobody good.
I guess I don't care
cuz I don’t live on the west coast, therefore I don’t like the pac-10. So it’s really good for me in every way muahahaha. Though I do like the ducks and bears.
im with ya
the pac10 has to look as good as possible to get some respect. Oregon State just took a dump on the “for the greater good” idea
Some vaguely good news for Cal is that Maryland beat #20 ranked Clemson this week.
Maybe that Maryland team is actually, you know, good. It’s not going to make much of a difference in the mainstream opinion of Cal, but it’s redemptive in a sort of backward, extremely minor way.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m only conflicted because USC was the ONLY thing left making the Pac-10 look even remotely good.
On the other hand, I hate them…
Comundrum….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 26, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Comundrum? That’s a funny word.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 26, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that
and I am bummed that the Pac 10 looks like a joke now. Fuck the SEC…
Mr. Boonitez , the SEC would like a word with you.
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 26, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Cain should definitely be traded
Even Buster Olney says so.
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
Prince Fielder and JJ Hardy
Sure, why not?
But, that probly ain’t happening, and the let’s see what we’ve got at the end of next year train looks comfy.
Bah
Peavy’s injury really came from getting thrown out of Dick’s Last Resort after celebrating the victory that night in San Diego. At least that’s what I’ve heard from a few of their employees.
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.
No, but I remember when Peavy cut his hand on the lid of can of peas while taking out the trash. That was funny.
Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
2008 Season in Summary: We haven't had a twenty-first baseman all year. How did that happen? Silly. It's almos.
by Zetsuboushita on Sep 26, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
FIND THE PITCHING DEPTH
I’m pretty sure it’s hidden with the swagger.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
Trade Cain for
a bag of Gamer and a bucket of Swagger
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
We already have Aaron Rowand
Adopted Son: Brad Hennessey. Beloved for a stolen base much like Dave Roberts
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 26, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If we ignore him will he go away?
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 26, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw Aaron Rowand in a bar a week or two ago
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids
by lincysgiants on Sep 27, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
God I Wish
…but apparently he bought drinks for a bunch of people
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids
by lincysgiants on Sep 28, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Or we can be really aggressive
Trade Cain for Fielder, Hardy.
Sign Sheets or A.J. Burnett to replace Cain in rotation.
Trade Alderson and change for another big bat. Preferably 3B. Maybe a young one like Alex Gordon, who they may be willing to part with since Moustakas is on the way and Teahan can move back to 3B in the meantime.
Because Milwaukee is cheap and doesn’t want to shell out 8 figures to extend Prince. And Hardy is due to make money soon as well and they have one of the best SS’s in the minor leagues who is pretty near ML ready? That might be why.
That doesn’t mean I agree with them, but the perception seems to be that one or both will be gone by 2010.
May be true
but there’s still no way they’d trade BOTH of those guys for ONE player. It doesn’t make sense for them. If they want to do a deal, they could trade them individually and probably get more value.
If the Giants were to spend big money (i.e. overpay) on a FA pitcher, and if they decide to trade Cain for an offer they couldn’t refuse (or shouldn’t, but with Sabes you never know), they should probably go after CC, Burnett, and Sheets in that order.
not that i’m endorsing any of the above.
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
As much as I love CC, I’d be deathly afraid of giving him Santana/Zito money + inflation. He’s basically pitching till his arm falls off to get the Brewers a ring this year. Some scouts already think he’s tiring considerably. And CC has had injury problems in the past too. At least with Sheets and Burnett it is such that its a given they will see the DL almost every year and thus their salary will be lower. Burnett seems to like contracts with an opt out clause too, which isn’t a bad thing.
This is kind of what I'm afraid of..
To sign a free agent pitcher, they will be basing themselves off of Zito. “Well Zito is getting 18 million a year, I should get more than that!”
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
Speaking of original ideas
Here’s a totally original joke!
I hope the Giants are not Able to trade Cain!
Get it?
It’s FUNNY
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Note to self: rip this off at a later date….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 26, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I see you are getting sneakier at your joke stealing.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
It’s a constantly evolving game. You should see some of the stuff people like Goofus are doing with rip-offs these days. If I don’t stay on top of the latest trends, I’ll just become a joke-stealing has-been.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 26, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
blah
sign cc sabathia. trade some of our starting pitchers not named tim lincecum for hitters that remember to bring their bats to the game. then somehow come up with enough money to sign a decent hitting infielder.
When was the last time the Giants traded for / signed in free agency a good, ready for prime time pitcher?
I’m afraid they’d trade Matt Cain for… stock in WaMu and a fleet of Hummers.
Thank You
for speaking some sense. Do we really want Prince Naseem and JJ Hardon?
Instead, pleeeaaase find a way to sign Teixeira!
Don't Teix while driving a train.
That is all.
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 26, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh good. I was hoping for another off season of trade rumors for one of our young guns.
Adopted Son: Brad Hennessey. Beloved for a stolen base much like Dave Roberts
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 26, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions
Tim Lincecum for Alex Rios!!!!
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Sep 27, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Not high enough?
Is Matt Cain’s trade value high enough right now to make trading him worthwhile? If not for his little bad stretch prior to his final three starts of the season I might say yes.
Matt wants to play for the Giants — for a long time. He provides them cost certainly for another three seasons or so. He seems to exude potential, but hasn’t quite reached it. If a great deal becomes available, pull the trigger. If not, hold onto him and hope for another hot spell to pump up his value.
If the Giants can get Mad Bum to the point where the Dodgers’ Clayton Kershaw is now, I would consider a deal if the booty were large (sorry about how that sounds). Tim Alderson looks like a solid major leaguer in the making, but he hasn’t generated nearly the buzz Mad Bum has, making Mad Bum a better trade prospect IMO.
But the Giants should probably wait until their young pitchers have ripened before pulling the trigger. They have a nice bounty, and even if they don’t all develop, the Giants’ position of strength seems to be starting pitcher. Let them ripen, make good decisions — and pull a trigger or two (assuming things work out as it appears they will).
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