Tim Lincecum and the Cy Young
Awards, schmawards, right? Why do we need validation from the old vanguard to appreciate Tim Lincecum? He’s a special and incredible pitcher to watch. We all know that. We don’t need a shiny plaque to make us feel warm and fuzzy about this amazing season from Lincecum.
I’d love to believe that, but, hot damn do I want Lincecum to win the Cy Young. A few reasons off the top of my head:
- Jason Schmidt’s loss to Eric Gagne in 2003 still bugs me. Gagne’s season was absolutely silly, and it’s easily one of the best relief seasons of all-time, but he still pitched 120 fewer innings than Schmidt.
- Bruce Bochy’s spiraling descent into pitch-count-ignorer's hell is directly tied to the Cy Young race. If Lincecum doesn’t win, there really wasn’t ever a reason to work him so hard.
- I don’t buy the whole "Ah, Lincecum will get his eventually"-argument. Even if Lincecum has a Hall-of-Fame-career, there are no guarantees that he’ll ever get a Cy Young.
- Lincecum is hella cool, and Brandon Webb is a total weenie.
Actually, I kind of like Webb in theory. Sinkerball pitchers have always fascinated me. At least, the sinkerballers whose names don’t rhyme with "nun tour" have always fascinated me. Maybe I’ll eventually invite Webb to the Society of Guys I Should Hate but Don’t, where he can play snooker and drink gimlets with Jake Peavy. But he shouldn’t win this damnable award because he leads in the stupidest statistic by which a pitcher should be measured.
So what I want to do is compile a list of reasons why Tim Lincecum is a better choice for the Cy Young than Brandon Webb. I’ll gussy it up real nice-like, and post it at the end of the season. Then I’ll e-mail a link or PDF to every BBWAA member with a vote. Maybe the BBWAA voter thinks that Webb should get his vote because Webb pitched for a contending team. On my bullet-pointed list, however, I’ll have something like, "Webb should not be given extra credit for playing on a contending team. He’s 1-2 with a 5.40 ERA against the Dodgers this year. If Webb had been better over his four starts against Los Angeles, it’s possible that his team would have made the playoffs."
Maybe it will change one mind. Doubtful, but it’s not like the effort will cost me any clams. And though I’m sure that agents send out similar literature, I doubt additional efforts would hurt the cause.
So this is an Open Lincecum Deserves Awards, Plaudits, and Shiny Trophies Fact-Compiling Thread. Here, I’ll start:
Stuff like that. And I’m not sure how best to quantify Lincecum’s success in the context of his mostly awful team, so I’m hoping for some help there. As in, "the Giants won X games, and Y number of those were in Lincecum starts. This was the highest percentage since Steve Carlton in 1972," or something like that. I just don’t know how to massage them databases the right way to do my own heavy lifting.
Fly, my little pretties! Fly!
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Good idea
You should post a link to download the PDF so we can all flood the writers’ mailboxes with this stuff. It may be foolish but last year when Bonds was trailing Soriano for the last ASG OF starting spot, I created a facebook group giving people the link to vote 25 times for each email address and got a lot of people to contribute. I’m not taking credit for Bonds getting in but it definitely helped and if we can do the same for Lincecum, it would showcase the power of the fan blog to the rest of the world.
by IVSPORT on Sep 24, 2008 12:41 PM PDT 0 recs
Tim Lincecum’s first name is also the title of an amazing Replacements album.
Brandon Webb shares the same last name as Spud Webb.
What would you rather watch, BBWAA voter, a Replacements gig or a 5’7" guy play for the Atlanta Hawks?
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 24, 2008 1:05 PM PDT 0 recs
Waitress in the Sky
+1 on the Replacements reference. Tim is one of my personal favorites. An excellent reason for Timmy winning the Cy.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on
Sep 24, 2008 2:08 PM PDT
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I saw
the placemats at SDSU touring to support their next album, Pleased To Meet Me. Blew My head clean off with raw good ol’ fashioned American Rawk and Roll, they did
TIM FTW!!!
by SnowLeopard on
Sep 24, 2008 3:42 PM PDT
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I'd love to help, Grant, but...
I’m still trying to figure out what sinkerballer rhymes with “nun tour.”
by KCE on Sep 24, 2008 1:06 PM PDT 0 recs
He has the same “first name” as Errant Throwin’.
Adopted Son: Brad Hennessey. Beloved for a stolen base much like Dave Roberts
by AndYourBirdCanSing on
Sep 24, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
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That’s his first name as far as I’m concerned.
Adopted Son: Brad Hennessey. Beloved for a stolen base much like Dave Roberts
by AndYourBirdCanSing on
Sep 24, 2008 4:57 PM PDT
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I got thrown off by the way I pronounce tour. Don’t do it with an “ooh” in it.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on
Sep 24, 2008 1:25 PM PDT
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I’m thrown off by the fact that I pronounce tour as rhyming with bore, and the sinkerballer’s name as rhyming with punter, and punter and bore don’t rhyme with each other.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Sep 24, 2008 1:27 PM PDT
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Not even if you're discussing Darin Erstad?
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on
Sep 24, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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Truth be told, that’s not something I do on a regular basis.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Sep 24, 2008 1:38 PM PDT
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He was a Fresno Grizzly in 08
And he has a career BA of 1.000 and OPS of 3.000.
by ho-hum baby on
Sep 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT
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I just got it
It took me literally hours. I am so ashamed.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on
Sep 24, 2008 3:02 PM PDT
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I’m surprised I didn’t get it more quickly, considering how much I adore the player in question, but I was thinking of Nun as rhyming with a first name and Tour as rhyming with a last name.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Sep 24, 2008 3:35 PM PDT
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Proving once again that Grant is playing GTA4 while the rest of us are playing Zaxxon.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on
Sep 24, 2008 3:44 PM PDT
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I obviously haven’t had enough caffeine. I still haven’t figured it out.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on
Sep 24, 2008 4:36 PM PDT
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It rhymes with Fott Funter
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 24, 2008 4:46 PM PDT
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Bunter Bunter Bo Bunter
Banana fana fo funter, nee ny no nunter…
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on
Sep 24, 2008 5:53 PM PDT
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Oh come on, Grant
“Derek Lowe” doesn’t rhyme with “nun tour”.
by Natto on Sep 24, 2008 1:19 PM PDT 0 recs
Pitching for a historically bad offense should tally bonus points in Tims favor.
Also, 17 wins while only weighing 160 pounds vs. 22 wins and weighing 228 pounds should also count in favor of Tim.
Pound for pound the best pitcher in baseball!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2008 1:20 PM PDT 0 recs
"Lincecum is hella cool, and Brandon Webb is a total weenie. "
I totally agree
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Sep 24, 2008 1:21 PM PDT 0 recs
Grant, I hate to burst your bubble, but
Tim’s shot at the Cy Young ended last night. I’m being a downer here, but I fear that some East Coast scribes were looking for an excuse to vote a different way, and Tim probably gave them that reason last night.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on Sep 24, 2008 1:23 PM PDT 0 recs
I blame Bochy, not Tim.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Sep 24, 2008 1:29 PM PDT
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I blame east coast scribes
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on
Sep 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT
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I blame the pharisees.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Sep 24, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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Don't blame me
I voted for Kodos
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 24, 2008 1:47 PM PDT
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we must go upwards not downwards. forwards not backwards…and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom
Rafael Rodriguez: More tools than Home Depot.
by BrianBokake on
Sep 24, 2008 5:17 PM PDT
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i blame colorado
and their effing mile high stadium.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on
Sep 24, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
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My case
Vote for Lincecum or I’ll come over there and punch you in the throat.
by Natto on Sep 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT 0 recs
Your logic is impeccable.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on
Sep 24, 2008 1:36 PM PDT
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It’s hard to argue with this.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Sep 24, 2008 3:27 PM PDT
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The % of team’s wins doesn’t work:
Tim: 24.3%
Webb: 26.8%
I like the stat of left game with lead and didn’t get the win, something like 5 for Tim, 1 for Webb.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 24, 2008 1:31 PM PDT 0 recs
Oh wait
You’re doing wins in Tim’s starts, not just his wins. That could take some time.
by AngelWillSaveUs on
Sep 24, 2008 1:31 PM PDT
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Tim: 20 wins in his starts + 1 relief win: 21 out of 70=30%
Webb: 23 out of 82=28%
Not a big enough difference to matter.
by AngelWillSaveUs on
Sep 24, 2008 1:36 PM PDT
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Yeah and there have been a bunch of pitchers where wins of games they started have made up much more then 30% of team wins. Just this decade alone, there have been 4 higher then 30%.
Aaron Harang 2007 – 33.33%
Randy Johnson 2004 – 31.37%
David Wells 2000 – 31.33%
Carlos Zambrano 2006 – 30.30%
And unfortunately, while all 4 finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting, none of them won.
Keiichi Yabu: Leading your San Francisco Giants in triple plays induced
by BaysideBaller on
Sep 24, 2008 2:33 PM PDT
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Tim Lincecum is smaller-than-average and amazing, and manages to get underrated.
David Eckstein, however, is smaller-than-average and sucks, and is constantly praised.
I guess you have to be small AND suck to be loved. There is no justice.
by rotorueter on Sep 24, 2008 1:48 PM PDT 0 recs
If it's any consollation...
if he doesn’t win, that might save the Giants a few million when trying to extend him this winter
by NeifiChicken on Sep 24, 2008 2:04 PM PDT 0 recs
Unfortunately,
this is a little like the BCS. If Timmy had had this outing in April, it wouldn’t have made nearly the impact as it does occuring now. It is amazing that, I think, last night was the 1st bad start for Lincecum this whole season.
Juan Marichal and Gaylord Perry never won the Cy Young award for the Giants either.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Sep 24, 2008 2:19 PM PDT 0 recs
a photographic examination and analysis of the two pitchers

Weenie and his weenie friend^

Professional hella cool super badass^
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 24, 2008 2:21 PM PDT 0 recs
I always hated those guitars w/ no headstock...
Just so, like – Rush…
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Sep 24, 2008 2:23 PM PDT
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LOL
that’s a Steinberger Spirit, the shitty import line.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 24, 2008 2:38 PM PDT
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Timmy Sinatra wins. Flawless victory.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Sep 24, 2008 3:27 PM PDT
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Everytime
I see LG, I think “steroids” (i.e. complete career bloom at age 31). And I wonder why BLB is banned from the game, while LG is still held in honor.
by SnowLeopard on
Sep 24, 2008 3:46 PM PDT
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err
BLB isn’t banned from the game.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Sep 24, 2008 4:07 PM PDT
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Neither is Gagne……..and he’s making $10M this year.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on
Sep 24, 2008 4:54 PM PDT
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Send this around...
“If you put Brandon Webb on your ballot, that would be a good ballot- for me to poop on.”
Triumph
by out machine on Sep 24, 2008 2:49 PM PDT 0 recs
Tim looks 12 years old and can’t grow facial hair. When he grows up, he should be throwing 110 mph.
Brandon Webb is old and already declining with bad facial hair.
——
SI Cover Stories profiling his excellence & impact in changing the way we look at pitching mechanics:
- Lincecum: 1
- Webb: 0
SI Cover jinxes avoided:
- Lincecum: 1
- Webb: 0
Even SI can’t derail our boy.
——
Brandon Webb pitched with a young, athletic bunch of fielders behind him.
Tim Lincecum pitched with someone described as a “drunk, gloveless Ben Grimm” behind him.
——
Offensive support:
Webb – the 2006 #1 prospect in all of baseball;
Lincecum – Pedro Feliz would have hit fourth
——
Eliminate games in which they pitched against their opponents’ lineup
Webb vs. Giants: 4 G – 28 IP – 24 H – 9 ER – 8 BB – 22 K
Lincecum vs. DBacks: 4 G – 30.1 IP – 27 H – 9 ER – 5 BB – 35 K
Webb resulting line: 29 G – 192.1 IP – 176 H – 70 ER – 55 BB – 154 K
Liincecum resulting line: 29 G – 189.2 IP – 151 H – 56 ER – 73 BB – 217 K
Analysis: Webb walked 8 Giant hitters, which is almost impossible to do unless it’s intentional. Ergo, he sucks.
——
Nicknames:
- Webb: Spiderman (or something equally lame)
- Lincecum: the Enchanter
Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...
by tedfordfan on Sep 24, 2008 3:12 PM PDT 0 recs
Since wins are actually a team-stat...
Why don’t they look at things differently.
Take all 3 pitchers (Tim, Webb, Johan) and put them on the same, average-hitting team. THEN look at win-loss record and factor it into the decision.
Timmy has pitched more innings (if he goes 5+ in final game) than both
Timmy has WAY more strikeouts than both
Timmy has given up less hits than both
To me, Timmy is the most dominant and most consistent pitcher. And that is what a Cy Young should be decided on.
Plus I heard Johan and Brandon get together and eat shit for breakfast….and that is just disgusting.
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
by BawLa on Sep 24, 2008 3:31 PM PDT 0 recs
Baseball Prospectus already kinda does this
its called Pitcher Expected Win % (min 195 IP)
1. Dempster: .672
2. Santana: .665
3. Lincecum: .663
9. Webb: .604
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on
Sep 24, 2008 3:41 PM PDT
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To be honest
I am less concerned with Timmy winning the CY, than I am with him being fully effective in upcoming seasons. Let Webb have the hardware – I just want Timmy to be, you know, Timmy during the next couple seasons.
I am feeling some foreboding : 220+ IP in his second professional season, most Baseball Prospectus “pitcher abuse points” in the past three seasons, 138 pitches is the most any guy has thrown in years, small frame, couldn’t locate his pitches last night, last night was the lowest game score in his past 47 starts, our last straight-up ACE Jason Schmidt was never the same after being overworked …
I guess what I am really trying to say is that Bochy is a foolish dumb idiot for trying to win Bruce Jenkins He-Man points and trot Lincecum back out there for a few more innnings his last few starts.
by SnowLeopard on Sep 24, 2008 3:59 PM PDT 0 recs
Me too...
Tim’s performance seems to have tailed off since Bochy read the Jenkins article and listened to KNBR and started pitching him like Hoss Radbourne (and, to be fair, since he threw the CG SO in SD).
I’d really like to think (like maybe if he no-hits the Dodgers on Sun.) that the additional pitching (i.e. going deeper into games and getting an extra start when he wasn’t even pitching last year at this time) has had no effect. And I don’t conclude that he can’t take it, or is doomed forever, or whatever. He just looks like he’s running out of gas which shouldn’t be a shock since this is the first time he’s pitched this deep in September. His last start in 07 was on 9/16.
I also hope that there’s not something wrong with him, minor or major… I bet his left index finger still smarts these days. I really don’t want to hear on Oct. 1 that he’s been pitching with something wrong with his wrist or elbow or something.
Sidenote: guess who leads the ML in WP? I did not know that.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
by natteringnabob on
Sep 24, 2008 4:34 PM PDT
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Yeah, a few get away from him now and then.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Sep 24, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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Anagram of "Should Tim Lincecum win the Cy Young?"
WELL HUNG, YUMMY, CHOICEST INDUCTION
Don’t. Doubt. The Anagrammer. Ever.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 24, 2008 4:48 PM PDT 0 recs
Anagram of "Should Brandon Webb win the Cy Young?"
DABBLING EUNUCH, NOBODY NEWSWORTHY
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Sep 24, 2008 4:51 PM PDT
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Why does everyone always ask that?!?!
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on
Sep 24, 2008 5:22 PM PDT
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and The Hung Jury
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on
Sep 24, 2008 5:50 PM PDT
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The only responsible thing to do at this point is suspend the Cy Young campaign until the current financial crisis is resolved. I suggest Brandon Webb cancel his next start and return to Phoenix to work on a bailout solution.
by Evan on Sep 24, 2008 5:57 PM PDT 0 recs
No! Cy Young candidates need to be able to multitask!
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on
Sep 24, 2008 5:58 PM PDT
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