Why the Cards covet Matt Cain on Viva el birdos

by Sblantonus2002 on Sep 23, 2008 1:56 PM PDT Comment 58 comments

Our counterpart for the Cardinals fan site, Viva el birdos, has an intersting chat about Matt Cain. Those of us who are thinking of dealing him might find instructive to note that according to this site Cain's numbers are similar to Josh Beckett's at comparable stages in their careers. It's also interesting to see it from another angle: getting Cain would make their off season.

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/9/23/620039/what-price-matt-cain

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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hmm

First off, this should be a fanshot.

Second, while it’s a nice, long post that is fairly well-written, there are some critical flaws:

1) Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum are the reason why people tune in to Giants games. Translation: probably not going anywhere, at least not unless it’s for people that would be a guaranteed draw (i.e. not unproven prospects)

2) We have no need for a centerfielder (ha ha ha) nor a minor league pitcher. As in, we could use help just about everywhere else before those.

3) What the hell am I thinking? Matt Cain is total crap. Mods, please delete this comment.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Sep 23, 2008 2:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah, forgot #4

Pablo Sandoval- he solves all our problems, so we need not additions.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Sep 23, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

PUJOLS 4 CAIN

I don’t think the Cards and Giants are all that compatible as trade partners. The Card would probably give up outfielders, of which the Giants have a surplus. Pass.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear | McFAQ

by Natto on Sep 23, 2008 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wanted to post Pujols for Cain on their site but damn the one day comment restriction

Pac Bell, SBC, AT&T, 2010=???

by jt_7241 on Sep 23, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

but in the comments they mentioned taking Zito and half his salary along with Matt Cain. Very interesting, why not just go with a 3 man rotation with Tim Lincecum, Sanchez, and Chris Lincecum. That old dude throws 86, Instant Zito.

"Forget it Donny, you're out of you're element"-Walter Sobchak

by icanplaythird on Sep 23, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

THEN WE CAN SIGN CC!!

I highly doubt any team would take on Zito just to get someone like Cain.

by Natto on Sep 23, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Cards,

Not yours.

Love,

jponry

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 23, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

I don't have photoshop skills, but you can imagine if I did

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 23, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I made one of these for Tim once.

A Cain one will probably be more useful this offseason.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Sep 23, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well done

That is awesome.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 23, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ridiculous Trade Proposals Confuse Matt Cain

Rafael Rodriguez: More tools than Home Depot.

by BrianBokake on Sep 23, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoa

Matt Cain gots the herpes

Brad Hennessey: the next Kevin Correia
Kevin Correia: the next Brad Hennessey

by stealth snail on Sep 23, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Cards,

Not yours.

Love,

jponry

nah

Fixed (you have a reputation to uphold here)

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Sep 23, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alternate version

Dear Cards:

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Sep 23, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cookie Monster sure gets antagonistic when he hasn’t had his fix.

by Natto on Sep 23, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cokie Monster!

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 23, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tell me you aren't a bit edgy when you're running low on the stuff

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 23, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

This.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 23, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats hilarious

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 24, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Posts like this on other sites make me fearful that Sabean really could be THAT dumb. I mean, sure, if the Cards were talking Wallace (who’s not tradeable yet anyway) and Rasmus plus another prospect/young player for Cain, that might be hard to turn down. One sure thing corner bat, a possible five tool CF, and another piece would at least make you think about it. But Ludwick? Freese? Todd? Get away Cardinals.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Sep 23, 2008 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This is funny

Do they really think we would want Ludwick? Ya a flash in the pants OF who’s numbers will bomb in SF. Don’t trade Cain unless you get back an amazing group of talent. Im talking like 2 or 3 mlb proven everyday players.

by FutureGiantsGm24 on Sep 23, 2008 4:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Flash in the pants

Is that even possible?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 23, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Just ask GOofus.

by Natto on Sep 23, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

rasmus a hanley ramirez type prospect?

whoa cardinals…. drop the punch and put down the home hooking.

Rafael Rodriguez: More tools than Home Depot.

by BrianBokake on Sep 23, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The man hit 29 HR in AA before he was old enough to drink legally

Colby Rasmus is a really frigging good prospect.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 23, 2008 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

granted

but I’m really not sure of anyone with the raw talent of hanley

Rafael Rodriguez: More tools than Home Depot.

by BrianBokake on Sep 23, 2008 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanley in the minors: .297/.352/.430
Rasmus in the minors: .277/.367/.486

Hanley was a tools guy who never put it together, until he was dropped into the majors.
Rasmus is a tools guy who has put it together every year, except for some early struggles this year.

Rasmus is a beast.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 23, 2008 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Position

Hanley was is a SS.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 23, 2008 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rasmus is a CF

and probably a better one than Hanley is SS (defensively). Not arguing against Hanley — obviously he’s on the shortest of short lists for best players in the majors, but Rasmus certainly represents an impact bat at a premium defensive position, which is always a hyper-valuable commodity.

Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!

by Roger on Sep 24, 2008 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know Rasmus is a CF

SS is still more valuable than CF; especially since Hanley is a speedy athletic SS: if his D at SS is indeed not salvageable, which it might not be the, various metrics indicate that he’s been about average this season; he can be switched to CF.

I’m not arguing that Rasmus is not valuable; simply that comparing their respective statlines in the minors isn’t enough.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 24, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would trade

Cain for Pujols, straight up.

In fact, I was going to post this on Viva, but I have to wait 2 days.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 23, 2008 5:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

pre-elbow surgery?

really?

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Sep 23, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols:

4th best SLG all time.

AT BEST

Cain is a great player, and I likes him, but if Pujols was hit by a truck tomorrow, they’d probably put him in the HOF, waiving the 10 year rule.

Also wouldn’t you think he’d get better after his surgery?

Contract status might be a problem. I’d want at least 3 years out of AP

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 24, 2008 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

but if Pujols was hit by a truck tomorrow, they’d probably put him in the HOF

I hardly think past performance is going to help this team much.

I have some serious concerns about Pujols’ longevity given his apparent elbow problems.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 24, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols has a 184 OPS+

this season, elbow problems or not. And he’s a slugger, not a pitcher, elbow problems for him are not the huge red flag they would be for a pitcher.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 24, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A joke?

There’s no way the Cardinals deal Pujols unless they have inside information that his elbow is about to explode and end his career. Pujols is the face of the franchise and trading him would do to Cardinal fans what trading Lincecum would do to Giants fans. I would strongly consider Colby Rasmus and Chris Duncan for Matt Cain.

by IVSPORT on Sep 24, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey

I didn’t say the Cardinals would go for it. I mean, why would we make a fair trade?

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 24, 2008 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

If Pujols was hit by a truck tomorrow, I think they’d put him in the hospital or the morgue, depending on the outcome.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but I don’t think they would waive the ten year rule for either of those.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Cain and Zito for Duncan, with half of Zito’s contract still here.

2. If I am the Giants, I am trading Cain and Zito at once (much like the Lowell Becket deal). For a Cardinal team short on starters heading into 2009, Zito would be a fine project for Duncan to fill in at the back of the rotation if Carpenter is not ready to go (rotation of Wainwright, Cain, Welly, Pineiro, Zito with a possible addition of Carpenter). That said, Zito’s contract is awful. Signed through 2013, with salaries of $18.5M each year in 2009, 2010 and 2011 and $19M in 2012 and $20M in 2013. The deal includes a team option for 2014 worth $18M or a $7M buyout. I wonder how much the Cards would need to take on to make a deal work for the Giants? With Zito in the deal and the Cards taking on half the value of the contract, maybe the deal could get done with something like Duncan, Freese and another pitcher.

When another vilely scrawny field is silly, some arena toward an instinct can be profound to a sincere jail.

by giants9107 on Sep 23, 2008 5:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fielder/Hardy looked better than most of these scrub proposals. Any Cards fan who thinks they can get Cain without giving up Colby Rasmus and then some is kidding himself

…I hope

"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."

by i did my job on Sep 23, 2008 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Everyone overrates their teams prospects

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Sep 24, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I tune in to Giant games because they're the Giants.

Without Caincecum they’d still be the Giants. I’d still tune in.

Considering the Phoenix alternatives , that’s a no – brainer. In more ways than one.

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 23, 2008 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Where does the size or scope of this no-brainer rank in the history of mankind?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 24, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

3rd

AT BEST!

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 24, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

CC + BrewCrew

If we can get Prince Fielder and JJ Hardy for Cain and somehow sign CC, I think that makes us instant contenders in the West. That should be a no-brainer deal. Only problem is if we tie up too much money in CC and Zeets that we don’t have enough to sign Lincecum to a long term deal.

CC > Cain
CC + Prince + JJ >>>>> Cain

by joebirdie3 on Sep 24, 2008 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs