FTW?
by Grant on Sep 2, 2008 11:37 AM PDT
96 comments
June/July: "Randy Winn has two hits in his past 80 at-bats. His shattered maple bats will one day impale an orphan. No one is going to want his contract."
August: "Randy Winn has 53 hits in his last 52 at-bats. He's hitting .306/.361/.433 with 25 steals in 27 attempts for the season. He plays a great right field, can play a good center, and teams will be lining up to acquire him this offseason."
Has it already been a week since our last Randy Winn trade post? Man, it feels like it's been over eight days, at least. The streakiest player in baseball is usually good for a different opinion piece every time, though. This week's thesis:
Randy Winn should be a sought-after player after the season ends. When the only option for a comparable player on the free-agent market is Bobby Abreu for three or four years and several millions, the $8.25M owed to Randy Winn starts to seem like a bargain. And even though the Giants have Nate Schierholtz waiting for at-bats, the Giants certainly don't have to give Winn away for a clump of mascot fur. They can afford to hold out for a real return.
I think this was the "May thesis", too. The "July thesis" -- you can make a pretty good broth from mascot fur -- might resurface in September.
Teams with at least one less-than-ideal outfield spot:
Yankees
Wait, I don't have the patience to list them all
Like, basically all of them
Totally
The best part of Winn for a lot of these teams: no commitment. Some of the better free-agent outfield free agents this offseason are Manny Ramirez, Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell, and Adam Dunn. Next year's list includes Jason Bay, Carl Crawford, Matt Holliday, Rick Ankiel, and Vladimir Guerrero. The better long-term solutions seem to reside with the latter bunch.
If I were running a competitive team like, say, the Phillies, and I were faced with a defecting Pat Burrell, a wretched Geoff Jenkins, and a thin system at the upper levels, I would definitely explore a relatively cheap solution like Winn. Trade a prospect for him, get a year of above-average production, and collect a draft pick after the year is up. But what do the Giants consider a clump of mascot fur, and what do they consider a fair return? The Phillies are a good test franchise for a question like this. They have an upper-minors shortstop prospect performing well in the Eastern League (Jason Donald), a guy who is doing well but is a little too old for Rookie ball, and the usual assortment of interesting arms.
Maybe the Phillies laugh if the Giants ask for Donald. Maybe the Giants turn their nose up at anything less than an established prospect, as there's a good chance that Winn will garner a supplemental pick in the 2010 draft. This dance applies to every team that would be interested in Winn, and this leads to our comment starter....
Comment starter: What should the Giants expect back for Winn, and what will they expect?
Alternate comment starter: They're so not even looking to trade Winn, and I'm just belching into the breeze, aren't I?
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ACS: Yes
Or no. They’re not going to move Winn.
I can’t really get excited about the idea either way (unless Nate goes completely insane in the 30-odd ABs he’ll likely get this month).
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 2, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn has been a really nice value this year. His home park adjusted wOBA is .356 and he is defending really well in RF. Dewan’s plus/minus has him at + 16. Only Brian Giles (+ 21) and Franklin Guiterez (+ 19) are better in the field.
Winn is making $8M this year and he’s about a 3-win player above replacement, making his market value around $12.6M. He’s +$4.6M value for the Giants.
I think a B-level prospect for Winn is a fair deal for his age and contract. The Giants really like the guy and I’m not sure they’ll be open to moving him, but I think they should test the waters. I think my biggest question is how do other teams value Winn because a lot of his value comes from the fact that he’s a great defender in the corners and I’m not sure that’s a skillset that’s valued too much in the corner OF position.
Teams seem more likely to play defensively challenged mashers in the corner OF spots (Carlos Lee, Manny, Adam Dunn) than more defensive-oriented corner OF players like Randy Winn. Because Winn doesn’t hit 25+ HR’s in the corner, I think his value might be lowered. It’ll be interesting to see if a team contacts the Giants about Winn.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Have you noticed that the wOBA numbers at FirstInning.com are a lot lower than the ones at StatCorner.com (even without the park adjustment)? For example, according to FirstInning, Winn’s wOBA is only .341. What’s up with that?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 2, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure why, they both have Winn having the same amount of PA’s. Interesting, I’ll shoot the StatCorner guys an email and ask them if they have any ideas. They’re really nice guys.
I would run Winn’s numbers through my wOBA Spreadsheet if I had access to it.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I just noticed that Winn has 5 fewer PA’s on StatCorner as opposed to First Inning. It has to be some difference in the way that each site is defining the PA.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the ones at SC are the correct ones, the ones at FI are just too low. Ichiro, who’s hitting .311/.362./384/.746, has a wOBA of .315…
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 2, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s the email I got back from Matthew Carruth.
I am aware that FirstInning and SC differ in their wOBA scores but I cannot provide an adequate explanation why. Our 2007 and 2008 totals are slightly off at the moment (working on fixing that) because it’s missing a handful of plate appearances here and there. However, that alone is not enough to cause such differences. Yes, I am using the formula that Tango provided.
Thanks for the e-mail,
Matthew Carruth
Like I figured, it’s partially because of the PA but the scores are pretty different. Interesting. I tried to email FI a few weeks ago but their contact page was busted.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
win(n) value
Winn is making $8M this year and he’s about a 3-win player above replacement,
This plus Lewis and Rowand also in the 2-3 Win category, +lincecum and cain (8?) left me wondering how could the rest of the team be so bad as to counter this +14 (not even including Wilson).
Then I remember that a replacement level team is about 65-97, not 81-81.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 2, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+16
Can somebody explain to me, being at least a little bit specific, how Randy Winn’s defense ranks so high? I’m not a huge stat guy. When I watch Winn, what I see is a smart RF who has good range and a poor arm. Am I missing something?
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Sep 2, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple
Good range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good arm
Alot of people (scouts, fans, interested bystanders) get a “gee whiz” feeling when they see a right fielder with a good arm and assume that the spectacular throws are the same as good defense. In actuality, there are relatively few plays that require a good throw, and even in those cases, accuracy is generally more important than velocity.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
I get that. So then, since range is weighted so much more, can we get into that? How is Winn’s range measured versus other RFs? It can’t be based purely on footspeed, can it? Perhaps there’s a link I could left-click where this could be explained to me.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Sep 2, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Measuring range is pretty much the holy grail of defensive stats
If you could figure out a way to do it accurately, you’ll be a very rich man. There are some system out that that do a passable job, but nothing spectacular. Not that we’d know, what is there is judge them against? You can’t just go by whether the stats match what your eye tell you, because the whole point of using stats it to check where your eyes are mistaken.
And yes, it’s alot more than pure foot speed. Positioning and how quickly and accurately you break on a batted ball are at least as important as how fast you run. Of course, positioning and break are usually things that happen before the player comes into camera view (or even before a person in attendance looks at the fielder), so most people don’t notice it.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pure foot speed comment...
Barry Bonds in his older years didn’t have the pure foot speed of his younger years (until you got him up to speed, that is) but his defense didn’t suffer terribly. He was such a good baseball player, such a good studier of the game that he could position himself where the ball was going, by determining the type of hitter at bat, the type of pitch the pitcher was going to throw, and the location of that pitch. If Zito was throwing a slow inside curveball to a righty pull happy hitter he would position himself along the line. If Cain was throwing a hard outside fastball to a well balanced lefty hitter, he would position himself along the line as well.
I don’t think Winn quite does this, but he is a smart outfielder and can position himself fairly well and use ATT Park to his advantage by knowing the types of wall coverings, the angles, etc.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 2, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the problem
Most of the defensive metrics people site aren’t that precise. A lot of them are measurements involving how many plays a player makes above average.
Let’s say 300 balls are hit to RF in a given year and Winn makes a play on 240 of them. The league average for a RF per 300 balls might be 225, meanign Winn made +15 plays above average. It doesn’t actually factor how Winn made those plays, but assumes elements like speed, breaks, positioning, etc. play a factor in a player making the extra plays. Say a coach is responsible for great positioning, perhaps putting a great range player with that coach would make him a great defender, but currently there is no way to isolate it (once again, by currently I mean to the public).
Others are a bit more complicated, but most of the defensive metrics avaliable to the public are very crude and shouldn’t be taken as absolute truth. Are they better than other public ways of measuring? Certainly. Are they as provable and absolute as the offensive stats out to the public? Not even close.
Defensive stats at this stage are more of an effort than fact. They are going in the right direction and are certainly better than making assumptions off of webgems, etc. but shouldn’t be taken as absolute truth
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Best headline of the summer.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Sep 2, 2008 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that Sabean wants to keep Winn, no other team is going to offer enough to change his mind, and they’ll trade Schierholtz instead.
by Evan on Sep 2, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, this. Winn is just the kind of player who Sabean always overvalues.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Sep 2, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s probably the unlikely combination of the Giants valuing Winn greatly (possibly for the wrong reasons) and the market not valuing him enough.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Winn be a type A after 2009? And if so, what’s better – whatever we can get for him, or 2 draft picks?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 2, 2008 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn is a borderline type A right now.
http://tigers-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/08/projected-elias-rankings.html
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, I’d say he would be a A after ’09 if he has his usual year.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point. On the other hand, he’s also turning 35 next season, so a significant decline in his production wouldn’t be shocking
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Sep 2, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, not at all, it could happen but I think Winn’s player-type generally ages well. He might have some drop off but he probably won’t completely crash.
/knocks on wood
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, I’d say he would be a A after ’09 if he has his usual year
That’s bold, but I can’t see Beane signing a guy like Winn while they rebuild.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Goofus knew what he meant
unless I’m completely overestimating his intelligence.
by Natto on Sep 2, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can Molina have a higher score than Winn? Winn is a better hitter, better fielder and a better base runner. He also plays more games and is more likely to age well.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 2, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s based on position. So, Molina is compared to other catchers and not other positions.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Winn, compared to other RF’s, is a better hitter, fielder and base runner then Molina is compared to other C’s.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 2, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
Molina is much better, compared to his peers.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 2, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 3, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does it really matter what type he is?
The smallest arbitration award he could get is 6.6M (80% of his previous year’s salary). Unless he puts together a really stellar 2009, it will be tough for a 36 year old to beat that salary on the FA market.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A very good point
Although I could see it happening. Another solid year like this, and he could get a 2 year/14 million dollar deal quite reasonably I feel. Maybe not though
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have a bad enough year...
To deserve 6.6 million from 8.25 million then you may be looking for a contract along the lines of 2/10 or 3/12 instead of 1/6.6. If your production keeps on dropping you won’t make up that extra 3.4-5.4 million if you play a few more years even.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 2, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The comment to make Grant like me
Winn to the Rays for Ben Zobrist!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 2, 2008 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait, Grant likes Ben Zobrist? Since WHEN???
by rotorueter on Sep 2, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said...
Winn for Efrem Zimalist Jr!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 2, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alfred FTW!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 2, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Winn and 1/2 draft picks really
That’s what we’re trading.
I’d ship him to ATL for Lillibridge and Chuck James. Two prospects whose value has plummeted recently but could be very useful for SF. Lillilbridge gives us an athletic SS that could prove to be a nice league average player (which no SS in our system really has the potential of saying) and Chuck James can enter our rotation and possibly rebound into a very nice #3 like he was originally projected to be.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a fan of James. He’s had injury concerns for 2 seasons now. I still like Lillibridge for some reason.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is definitely a lot of cause of alarm
However, I think it’s a reasonable guy to take a flyer on. We are a team that can afford to take gambles, and if James is able to stay healthy for one year and pitch to his abilities, he could turn into quite a valuable property.
Lillibridge is one of those guys who I’ve always felt was overrated, but now that he’s brought himself into the underrated stratosphere he becomes more attractive to me. ATL has a SS in Escobar in place for years to come so I could definitely see him becoming available.
James carries plenty of risk, but also many potential rewards. This deal would just be rolling the dice in a way. If both rebound and pay off, we make off like huge bandits. If one pays off, we’re still ahead. If neither pay off, well, we gave up a good player and two picks for nothing.
Problem is, it’s hard to make a distinction out of which of those 3 scenarios is most likely
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a risk, but I just don’t like hearing “torn rotator cuff” and pitchers in the same sentence.
Placed on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to March 21, with a slightly torn rotator cuff in his left shoulder.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t see a mention of any pitchers in that sentence.
by cornball on Sep 2, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree with you, though: rotator cuff injuries are a scary proposition for pitchers. Giving up our most tradeable asset (God, that’s sad to say out loud) for a rotator-cuff injury doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
by cornball on Sep 2, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's not the only part
A possible league avg SS isn’t too shabby either, considering our need
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think that we could find another pitcher to pair with Lillibridge, that’s all. No, I don’t have any other ideas, but I don’t like the idea of trading for James.
by cornball on Sep 2, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
Although I prefer to gamble on ability. If James can bounce back healthy, we can always trade him, and it would be at a higher value than Winn
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly though. That’s not as bad as totally.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 2, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noah Lowry without the good years
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 2, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but....
a better minor league track record
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say that I agree with those saying that Winn is a valuable player and should fetch a decent return on the open market, but as he doesn’t do any one thing extremely well (except for field, and he’s not really a flashy sort of defender, so he doesn’t get much attention for that) and there’s nothing that really jumps out about his statline, he’s probably undervalued by the rest of baseball.
He’s definitely too good of a player (not to mention the draft picks) to just trade him for nothing, as much as I’d like to see Nate Schierholtz starting every day. So I guess I will only be angry if Sabean makes no visible effort to trade Winn this offseason. If he does make an effort and finds the offers lacking, I’d be completely fine holding on to him for one more year.
As for a possible return, I’d probably be happy with some sort of package built around a B-type prospect.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 2, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I side with the jponry faction
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 2, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GROUPTHINK
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 2, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read this as “jponry fiction”. I like you people but not enough to read stories about yourselves.
by Natto on Sep 2, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might not want to check your e-mail, then… I already sent you a copy of my latest Skaldheim/Dan from NM adventure.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 2, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what exactly is a visible effort?
Someone get Damon Minor's agent on the phone stat!
by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 2, 2008 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
53 hits in 52 ABs?
I’ll take that any day. If he keeps up that pace, he’s untouchable. If he comes back to earth though and ends up batting less than 1.000, I say we trade him for JJ Hardy and Manny Parra.
by IVSPORT on Sep 2, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn and Molina
Won’t be traded in the off season. Regardless of their actual baseball value, who among GMs will value their crunchy vet’r’n goodness more than Sabes?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 2, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn brings just the kind of experience these youngster need
How to deal with never, ever making the playoffs.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OR...
how to get traded for a coach. Nearly twice.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 2, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But is he as experienced as Obama or Palin?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many pregnant daughters does he have?
Also, how many people has he tried to illegally fire?
Was he a mayor of a podunk town two years ago?
by positiveuphemism on Sep 2, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IS HE A SECESSIONIST?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 2, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, all his children were delivered vaginally.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a big history buff but I believe this may be one of the greatest political gaffes ever.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 2, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
just because Randy Winn once played a little Vice President back in high school and then that one game in which Bochy ran out of catchers does NOT mean he’d be a good VP.
.
.
.
but didn’t Nate Schierholtz used to be a vice president?
by ExcuseMeSwing on Sep 2, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Winn is buddies with Steve Nash who is Canadian. Canada is near Russia so Randy Winn has international relations experience.
Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.
by SF Pete on Sep 2, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Mike Cervenak
was once known as the “Mayor of Norwich”…
Winn/Cervenak ’08
by ExcuseMeSwing on Sep 2, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NATE SCHIERHOLTZ HASN’T BEEN A VICE PRESIDENT SINCE THE LOW MINORS AND HE WAS MOVED TO SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR BECAUSE HE SUCKED AT IT JESUS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 2, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dyin’
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 2, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your brazen dismissiveness about his experience there clearly reflects sexist undertones.
your platform of “rebuilding” now lacks all credibility.
by ExcuseMeSwing on Sep 2, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Winn definitely has value and Sabes shouldn’t settle for mascot fur. Winn is an ideal outfielder for a good team, especially one with question marks in the OF.
- He can play all three OF positions well
- He’s a switch-hitter with good splits
- He can bat in a lot of different places in the lineup
- His contract is a relative bargain
He gives a GM lots of flexibility in filling out other OF roster spots and he gives a manager day-to-day flexibility when filling out a lineup card.
As I’ve said before, if we can’t get enough value back, I’d prefer keeping him around next season (and collecting the extra picks) as a high-usage 4th OF where he can spell any of the 3 other OFs depending on matchups.
Still not a believer? Well, what are you going to do if Nate flops, huh smartass? Or better yet, what if Lewis hasn’t fully recovered from bunion surgery next season?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 3:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We are still stuck with Roberts. That gives us 4 major league outfielders (using the term loosely) even if Winn is gone.
by rotorueter on Sep 2, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Nate flops?
hasn’t he already flopped?
by positiveuphemism on Sep 2, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any inadequacies-past, present or future-in Nate's game are mitigated by this fact:
he runs motherfuckers over.
by ExcuseMeSwing on Sep 2, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't argue with that...
…but how many innocent catchers will he injure to get to those dastardly motherfuckers?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in post 9/11 baseball...
There are no “innocent catchers.”
You’re either with Nate Schierholtz, or you’re against him.
by ExcuseMeSwing on Sep 2, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
and I would add:
- As a guy that can play CF, he is a defensive asset playing RF with all that extra space at AT&T.
- Though lacking a strong arm, like BB, he gets the ball back into the IF quickly, mitigating his lack of a cannon.
I think the problem for the Giants though, is that he is kind of a roll player. He would be more valuable to a team that had better players around him in the lineup than the Giants do, like the Red Sox., Cubs, …or,… well, just about anyone really.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Sep 2, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn is getting tonight off
Lf Roberts
Rf schierholtz
Cf winn
C Molina
3b sandoval
1b ishikawa
2b burriss
Ss vizquel
P Lincecum
Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.
by sfgreg on Sep 2, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ummm
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 2, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting the night off you say? Hitting third you tell me.
by cornball on Sep 2, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh Sorry, I saw Nate in Right and got a little excited…Sorry, Rowand with the night off.
Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.
by sfgreg on Sep 2, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was a typo and you meant to say Winn is getting off tonight…although I don’t know how you’d know that.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d think it’s just a plain old-fashioned safe bet.
Just think of it this way: On the one hand, he could get off tonight. And on the other hand, he could do the same.
Granted, he could go ahead and use both hands at once, too, but that sounds like playing with fire to me.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 2, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about instead of trading Winn...
we trade Rowand? Winn can move back to CF, and Schierholtz gets RF.
Rowand only has a limited no-trade clause after this season (has a full no trade for this year) and I think he only has 5 teams that he can veto a trade to if I remember correctly. I mean does anyone honestly think Rowand is going to keep his value over the remaining 4 years of his deal? Especially at the salary he will be making? I say no. And Rowand would probably get you slightly better value since he is a CF, and he has more power. Also is younger etc etc. I even wonder if Seattle would trade Beltre for Rowand straight up? Sounds fair to me.
Then we can have Beltre and Winn off the books after 09, and have a shitload of money to spend in FA or to resign Timmy, Cain and whoever else. Holliday also becomes a FA after 09. Molina, Winn, Roberts, and Beltre would free up what like 40 mill? Not to mention what you would save getting rid of Rowand.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 2, 2008 5:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Since we were the high bidders in the recent Rowand sweepstakes, I’m not sure that teams would be lining up to take make a play for him. Seattle might be a good fit, but I don’t think it’s been established that their in “dump Beltre’s salary” mode at this point.
Also, after all the talk about Dr. Gamer Von Gamerstain’s overall gamerness, I can’t see them throwing in the towel on Rowand so soon.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 2, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no no no
You have to wait for Rowand to hit .300 for the year before he will be shiny, shiny enough to trade.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 2, 2008 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade a .300 hitter?
Blasphemy!
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 2, 2008 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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