Suck it Randy Winn haters

Offense isn't everything (that feels dirty to write for some reason).

3 months ago marcello Comment 32 comments 3 recs |

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Offense isn't everything

I’m pretty sure Timmy’s score would be far better than Randy’s.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 3:41 PM PDT 0 recs

Yea..

But Cy Young is for pitchers, MVP should be for batters.

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by WalrusMan on Sep 18, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

OK, I'll bite...

Why? Why couldn’t a pitcher be the league’s most valuable player?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 9:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't think anyone here hates Winn.

Some people would just like to see him traded for some prospects. I’ve always been against trading Randy, but there is a good argmument to do so.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 18, 2008 3:49 PM PDT 0 recs

i'll get to pitchers eventually

still not sure what stats I want to use for starters. WPA? ERA? something fielding-independent like FIP?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

Anything but ERA, please

I’m almost entirely serious.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

i totally understand

ideally i’d use a WPA/zone rating combination, but that doesn’t exist. FIP (or xFIP) is totally context-neutral, which isn’t ideal for MVP, although that’s probably what i’ll do. and FIP-runs above replacement are already available and are park-adjusted.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

I like FIP.
xFIP can suck it.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

why's that?

and what do you think of tRA — statcorner.com?

the HR/FB skill takes a long time to settle down, meaning you should regress heavily over one season. the fact that xFIP is 100% regression isn’t correct, but i’m guessing 100% regression is more accurate than 0% regression (FIP). HR/FB would ideally be park-adjusted, too.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

haven't seen much tRA in action

but it seems sound. FIP is tried and true.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

My reason is prejudice and not reason at all.

Giants pitchers work up in the zone at home, to get more strikeouts/flyouts within AT&T’s generous dimensions. XFIP tends to consistently portend doom for them.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

well, AT&T kills homeruns, so Giants' pitchers have HR/FB rates around 9% instead of league-average 11 or 12%

are they taking advantage of the stadium intentionally or are they overrated by the stadium?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Well,
I don’t really think those two things are mutually exclusive. It is intentional, though. Flyball/strikeout pitching is an organizational philosophy that’s taught way down in the lower minors.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

Well, you’re at a Giants site, so clearly the answer is there is no way they are overrated. Probably underrated. :)

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by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

I like tRA quite a bit.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

Does it measure heart or grit?

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by xanthan on Sep 18, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

both!

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 7:18 PM PDT up 0 recs

It’s how they’re scaled that’s important.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

I’m for trading Randy, for a good package in return. I don’t think that will happen though. The perception of Winn is pretty different from his actual value. Anyways, I too don’t think many people dislike Randy, I just don’t think most realize how valuable he’s been.

BTW, the title is intentionally aggressive, not seriously though.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

I agree with all that.

However, “perception of Randy” isn’t a static thing. The dude has basically gone insane over the last month, and I think that needs to be taken into account.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Static

Very true, and if the Giants can trade him for a nice package this offseason I would be ecstatic (while proofreading this I just realized I unintentionally wrote a shitty pun). Although, and I don’t remember who brought this up, but I liked the idea of the 4 OF for 3 spot platoon that was outlined where Lewis, Rowand, Winn, and Schierholtz all get ~500 ABs. Dammit, back on the wishy-washy fence….

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

The Goofus

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

for a team like the Giants who aren't ready to compete

why would you spend money on a guy like this? fans don’t appreciate him (although they appreciate his wins, i suppose) and you might as well give a young guy the playing time, no? seems like a great trade option.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

I understand, I’m just saying that having the 4 isn’t the worst thing in the world. Really, it’s just a necessary rationalization for what we know is going to happen (not trading Winn).

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 18, 2008 7:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

If the right deal came along, yeah I’d be for it. I just don’t think the kind of return I’d like would be available.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

The haters are out there.

Baseball Prospectus is one of them. Many people on this board refer to Winn as a fourth outfielder, too.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

Randy Winn

better than mark teixieria

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 18, 2008 3:56 PM PDT 0 recs

only considering Teixeira's contributions with Atlanta, naturally

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 18, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Randy FTWn!

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
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by Natto on Sep 18, 2008 4:44 PM PDT 0 recs

i don’t get it

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 18, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up 0 recs