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The 1B conundrum day 1,432: What do you do?

0711_kantoku14_b_tiny by NeifiChicken on

For years it's been simple. Sabean is a moron that couldn't find a suitable bat to play perhaps the easiest defensive position in baseball. He's a fool and we've suffered, but there was always the chance by sheer randomness Sabean could be tricked by someone in his staff to acquire a good enough bat that could at least have the POTENTIAL. to be league average.

Rich Aurilia, Mark Sweeney, Shea Hillenbrand, and Ryan Klesko (Klesko move I liked though) were all brought in from outside the organization and failed.

Bowker, Niekro, and Ortmeier were all internal "solutions" that failed.

Even JT Snow really wasn't that great for half of his years with us, but since his departure our 1B production has to be in the bottom 5.

 

This season was shaping up just like any other in that regard, until Travis Ishikawa came along. Ishikawa presents an entirely new problem because unlike Niekro, Ortmeier, and in some ways Bowker; Ishikawa actually has the potential to be different.  Ishikawa has always been considered highly talented and has had some very good minor league years in his career. The problem is that those good years were bookends on some Minor League seasons that make Ivan Ochoa look palatable.

Prior to this year, most people (myself included) had probably written Ishikawa off. Yet with the resurgence he has shown this season, he immediately warrants strong consideration for 500 PA's next year as the Giants starting 1B. Yet, because of his inconsistency it is fairly impossible to predict what he will do.

 

 

So I pose to you two questions:

1) How well do you think Ishikawa would do next year if he was handed the 1B job and guaranteed 500+ PA's?

2) With that in mind, what would you do for the 1B hole in 2009?

 

My answers:

1) Impossible to tell. I'd say best case is probably .265/.340/.475 with 20 HR's and good defense. That is nothing spectacular, but how ecstatic would we be if Ishikawa could produce at that line for over 500 PA's? Not quite a league average bat, but with his good glove and the marginal left handed park factor, he'd be close to league average.  I think we'd all love that

2) I'd go with Ishi, but I'd still look into insurance.  McClain should obviously have a bench role on the 09 team to basically take Aurilia's place, but with less PA's. Nick Johnson always intrigues me, and he's at an all time low price, but the problem is he would probably take at bats away from Ishikawa, which defeats the purpose of handing 1B over to him.

How the fates mock me, when Nick Johnson finally has a chance of being acquired for cheap, Travis Ishikawa has to show up and make Johnson seem unappealing.

 

 

 

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Ishi

My crystal ball tells me we could expect something to the tone of .250/.300, 15 HRs. And that would be OK with me while the team is in the extended Lets See What the Youth Have While we Don’t Contend period of time (aka 2009). However, 1B will probably have to be upgraded by the time they are likely to contend, either via Angel Villanolla or FA.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 15, 2008 12:39 PM PDT   0 recs

I think it’s too early to write off Bowker. Now that Ishi and Sandoval are up though, Bowker’s probably back as an OF now.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Sep 15, 2008 12:44 PM PDT   0 recs

Do NOT trade/but/hijack/kidnap/attract in any wayshapeform Adam Dunn.

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 15, 2008 12:44 PM PDT   0 recs

buy

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 15, 2008 12:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why not?

I think he could be had for cheap, and would love his OBP and power. If cheap enough.

Did I mention cheap?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 15, 2008 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm thinkin he won't come cheap..

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Sep 15, 2008 12:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree

He won’t be cheap and AT&T is already in his head.

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 15, 2008 1:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You're probably right about the AT&T part

But I still think he’d come relatively cheap b/c of the ZOMG LOW BAVG. But I might be naive.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 15, 2008 1:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He's failing miserably when the Blanks need him most.

Would he be different for us?

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 15, 2008 1:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Adam Dunn has been hitting .253/.450/.442 with and OPS+ of 131 for the Diamondbacks. His power has dipped, but that’s not failing.

I don’t think he is going to be cheap, so I’m going with a “no” on signing him.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 15, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you are indeed naive. The FA market is crap this year. He’s going to get paid big by somebody.

by Hobbes2d on Sep 15, 2008 1:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Naive is what I use to cut my microwaved chicken.

Can’t get that image of him whiffing yesterday out of my head.

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 15, 2008 1:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I know it was just 1 AB,

but when the D’backs were here last week, Dunn absolutely crushed a ball to right center. It was a magestic towering fly ball that went over 400 feet for a routine out. It might have been only one AB, but I saw it as an empirical indicator that Dunn is not the right guy for our ballpark.

Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.

by marklar on Sep 15, 2008 2:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That being said...

…who let the lummox in last night?
OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Sep 16, 2008 2:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

after his two LOOOONNNGGGG outs that would’ve been homers somewhere else, i think he is going to pull the carlos lee and not come here.

by Big Daddy J on Sep 15, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This applies for

[Insert Power Lefty FA Here]. We should be able to get righty FA’s here though (ala Rowand).

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Sep 15, 2008 2:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Travis Ishikawa

1) He will play very well against RHP and will suffer some growing pains facing LHP. Might start in a semi-platoon but could develop into an everyday starter. Will play solid defense.

2) TI has taken advantage of his opportunity to be given a shot as the everyday 1b in 2009. SF should have a platoon partner, Plan B veteran ready just in case.

John Bowker is an OF.

by wilriv21 on Sep 15, 2008 1:04 PM PDT   0 recs

John Bowker is an OF in Norwich.

I agree.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 15, 2008 1:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why Norwich? He already did well in that league once. What’s wrong with Fresno?

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Sep 15, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

because it's the future

and regression will pick up in the future. everyone knows that.

(i’m just talkin’ smack)

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 15, 2008 4:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Um

Small Sample Size?

Ishikawa has a line of .328/.403/.547.

That is really good.

That is also in 64 AB’s.

For reference, In the same time period, Velez has a line of .354/.358/.554 (65 AB’s).

Lance Niekro had a line of .274/.273/.565 in his first 64 AB’s.

In about the same #, Ortmeier had a line of .254/.284/.493

’tis a little too early to jump on the TI Bandwagon.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 15, 2008 1:20 PM PDT   0 recs

It certainly is, but there are two enormous differences here: Ishi has been a very highly rated prospect at points in his career, and Ishi is walking at a good rate, as he usually does.

He may wash out, he may never be more than a platoon guy… he’s no sure thing. But he merits more optimism than Velez, Niekro, Ortmeier, Bowker or any of the other jokers we’ve had around in the last several years.

by onlxn on Sep 15, 2008 1:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

indeed, the point is that Ishikawa was once thought capable of producing at high levels. Niekro, Velez, and Ortmeier never really showed the promise of Ishikawa

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 15, 2008 1:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, I understand that POV

TI was supposed to be good, but he wasn’t.

Until this year, he has lived up to what he was supposed to be.

My point is just that his performance thus far is encouraging, but not really telling of much.

I will remain skeptical of him, as I am skeptical of Pablo, Velez, and everyone else who is smacking the crap out of the ball in September.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 15, 2008 2:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that Velez line real? Ha! .354/.358!?

Wow.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Sep 15, 2008 2:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Look at Niekros..

.274/.273..

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Sep 15, 2008 2:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that even a walk or was he HBP? (Too lazy to look up)

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 16, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m still dreaming of adding Mark Teixeira. If we don’t/can’t do that, I’m perfectly alright with giving Ishikawa a shot at the starting job.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Sep 15, 2008 1:20 PM PDT   0 recs

Tex is nice, but why invest all that money in a 1B when we have potentially cheap solutions in Ti and Sandoval? Tex is going to require a lot of money to come here and I think it would seriously handicap the team financially.

I’d much rather see if TI or Sandoval can give us some decent (if not better) offensive numbers. Lets say that TI puts up an Adam LaRoche esque line next year. That would give the Giants one nice trading chip to acquire any other help they might need when a player like AnVill comes along (assuming AnVill reaches his potential).

by Squire_Boone on Sep 16, 2008 9:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Ishikawa

For an acceptable comp, I’m thinking he’ll produce like Adam LaRoche.

by Hobbes2d on Sep 15, 2008 1:26 PM PDT   0 recs

+1

Adam LaRoche is a great comp for Ishikawa. The only difference I might see is that TI may not have the annual early season struggles that LaRoche consistently seems to have. But, that is just alright with me.

by Squire_Boone on Sep 16, 2008 9:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

BRING BACK

Damon Minor

by SnowLeopard on Sep 15, 2008 1:52 PM PDT   0 recs

ooohhh

talk about a guy that never got a fair chance

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 15, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

TINY

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 15, 2008 2:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His batting stance will always be with us.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 15, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A man doomed by the very fact of his own last name.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Sep 15, 2008 2:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ishi

I’d like the Giants to do for TI what the Red Sox did for Dustin Pedroia. Tell him he is the everyday 1B guy, and to not worry about a slow start. Just let him play, and see if he produces.

Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.

by marklar on Sep 15, 2008 2:40 PM PDT   0 recs

or...

what most normal teams do with their MLB ready prospects (Wait, I guess I can’t really blame the Giants with that qualifier since they rarely have them)

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 15, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This

would have been helpful plan of action for any number of past Giants rookies – Yorvit, Todd Linden, etc.

One of the worst things about Sabes as a GM, I think, is his impatience : the way rookies better come through in their first 50-300 big leage PAs, or they’re shipped to [ the bench / Frenso / another team / etc ]

by SnowLeopard on Sep 15, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But, really

Has anyone Sabean/Giants has “given up on” turned out for anyone else?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 15, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitchers, yes, a bunch. Position players, obviously, not so much. Yorvit – kinda.

Anyway, I think that baseball d00dz have a finite window of development. And I refuse to believe that someone can have a year like Linden had in 2005 at age 25, and not have it translate into some degree of MLB success (at least more then Linden’s had). But that’s only with the right coaching, advising, and handling by the organization.

As we all know, the Giants in the Sabean era have shown no facility with producing productive major league position players (Yorvit, Happy Pete and Mighty Marvin as [very] partial exceptions). Part of that, obviously, has been the sub-world-beating raw materials that they’ve been working with, but a lot of it, I think, has been a faulty system. And one big part of that faulty system has been bringing guys up, giving them 100 PAs, dropping them once a hot start cools off, bouncing them around minor league levels, having them ride the pine for weeks on end, and basically showing little patience for or trust in rookie players. And, I think that that can’t help but thwart their development.

by SnowLeopard on Sep 15, 2008 6:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Trading someone doesn't count as "giving up"

So I am really curious to know who the Giants, in the last 10 years, have called up, given up on – and then gotten rid of only to have that player later attain success with another club.

I can’t really think of a single one. Yorvit was traded for Randy Winn, value was given up for value.

Accardo was traded for Hillenbrand, and while that trade didn’t turn out great for us – I would not look at it as the organization “giving up” on Accardo.

Even Raj Davis, who we all thought hadn’t been given a fair shake this season…

He’s putting up a .260/.289/.375 line for Oakland – not exactly making us regret that decision. Linden, Niekro, etc have all disappeared.

I don’t usually support the Sabean administration, but in this case the evidence suggests that they have been pretty prudent with their decisions.

It doesn’t always take AB’s to figure out that a player has huge flaws. Managers (one would hope) can see these things in practice. If they are reinforced on the field, that might be all it takes.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 15, 2008 6:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly - It Is Call Scouting

Scouting unlike stats does not require a large sample size.

by giantsrainman on Sep 15, 2008 6:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

WTF?

Players are humans. They have good days and bad days. A scout watching a player on a good day will likely view the player differently from a player having a bad day.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 15, 2008 11:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

devil's advocate

I do think there are certain things a scout can notice in a day regardless of bad or good. If the scout is focusing on results, well obviously that’s no different than looking at a box score for a single game, which can be random, but obviously if a pitcher has RIDICULOUS stuff there is not one day where that will be a fluke. Kirk Rueter doesn’t have fluke days where he throws like the Big Unit. He can have a good day where he pitches a shutout like the Unit, but he won’t have the nasty stuff no matter what.

Same with swings, a small sample size is probably enough for a scout to see the kind of swing a player has as well as his bat speed, which is plenty important and can’t be faked.

I’m obviously not advocating making decisions on players based on short viewings, especially not professional ballplayers, I’m just pointing out there are some things that don’t require a large sample size

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 16, 2008 9:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Another weakness of Sabean’s, IMO, is that he develops grudges against players for end-of-season/post-season failures (Jose Cruz Jr, Cody Ransom, Dustan Mohr). And yeah I think that Sabes gave up on Joe Nathan (and his excellent 2003 regular season) partially on a grudge, because of his 81.00 ERA / 15.00 WHIP / one game lost against the Fish in the 03 playoffs. So, there’s one player that yes Sabes gave up on and then yes bloomed elsewhere (to put it mildly).

Many pitchers have of course had some fine seasons after leaving the Giants (Linebrink, Foulke, ROrtiz, Livan, Jason Grilli, etc), but none of them fit the simple narrative of Giants try young player, tossing them aside for nothing, and then other teams finding them useful.

Anyway, my main hypothesis is not that that Sabes got rid of Todd Linden and that Linden then magically did great for the Fish / Elephants / Tribe / whoever. It’s more that the Sabes administration irrevocably fucked up Linden’s development by giving him a few PAs, then having him ride the pine, then then sending him back down, giving him another 75 PAs to try to prove himself again – jerking him around like a yo-yo. Be more patient at the plater, no swing away more, pull more, go the other way. Of course he hasn’t had (much) success in any other organization – I assert that the Giants irrevocably fucked up his development at one of its key junctions.

Of course they gave up on him. Of course he hasn’t established himself elsewhere. They fucked him up and then spit him out.

What should they have done differently? Well first off, I think that the Sabean Giants have had an organizational philosophy of aggressive hitting (aka hacking at slop nightly). For a take-and-rake guy like Linden (81 BB in his first professional season), that’s has to have been the wrong coaching and messed with his rhythms. He still managed to put together a more-than-ready-for-the-major-leagues 1.119 OPS in 2005.

So, my main point is to agree with what marklar said. After Linden’s 2005, the Giants should have “what the Red Sox did for Dustin Pedroia. They should have told him he is the everyday [RF] guy, and to not worry about a slow start. Just let him play, [give him half-a-season-to-a-full-season] and see if he produces”. I feel that the Giants failure to show confidence in and commitment to a young player (and going with the 41-year-old Steve Finley to partner up with Bonds and Winn instead) derailed Linden’s success, clipping his wings at the exact moment that he was ready to take off.

by SnowLeopard on Sep 16, 2008 12:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And this season

I’ve watched them do the same impatient jerking around with Ortimer and Bowker.

You want a young guy to develop? Then give him 300 PAs without the pressure to stay productive the whole time. Let him play through his first slump.

Just like the org had no plan for what to do if dreamy started the season on the DL, they seem like they are desperately casting about with these young 1B/OF types. They seem to throw them against the wall, one after another, to see if they’ll stick. That’s not the way to develop young players, and I figger it’s gotta fuck with their heads sumpin fierce.

by SnowLeopard on Sep 16, 2008 12:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So true

This, I believe, is a key fault of the current administration. (and you can intepret that either way…)

Well said, SnowLeopard!

your 2008 SF Giants: this isn’t totally insane, just really stupid

by Lyle on Sep 16, 2008 6:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OKay, I'll buy it

I do agree that sending a guy up and down on and off the bench is probably a poor choice.

I would much rather watch a guy get ~ 300 consecutive AB’s and make a decision based on that.

But I guess I do have SOME faith in the management team’s ability to scout the players and make some decisions based on that, too.

If a player has a huge hole in his swing, for instance, and can’t lay off the low-and-away slider – the team doesn’t need 300 AB’s to figure that out. If the guy can’t adjust to that in ~100 Ab’s, then maybe it’s time to move him along.

I think they gave Bowker a fair shot this season. It is my impression that he has tried to adjust his hitting style too much to be able to contact more pitches, and as a result has lost his power.

He is still a 25% LD hitter however, so I still think he has been really unlucky.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Sep 16, 2008 8:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed on Bowker

He did get 300+ PAs this year and they stuck with him through an early slump. Ortmeier, on the other hand, was treated badly – essentially named the starter and then never actually given a chance to start.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 16, 2008 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I can.
Anyone can have a good year in Fresno.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.

by oldjacket on Sep 16, 2008 8:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

1B is all based on what you want for next year. you want to win and take a shot, go after Tex or trade for someone. If you want rebuilding, its all about Ishi and Pablo.

by Big Daddy J on Sep 15, 2008 2:57 PM PDT   0 recs

Best Case .265/.340/.475?

Really? This is your best case for a $1M bonus baby that clearly found himself this year in the minors? I could see this as you gut shot guess at what he will do. But, to say he has no upside above this is just wrong.

by giantsrainman on Sep 15, 2008 3:21 PM PDT   0 recs

well in my defense

I wasn’t talking about his peak career value, just best case for next year. I think you’d find it hard to justify him doing any better than that next year over 500+ PA’s.

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 15, 2008 3:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

1) .260/.330/.410 – I have a hard (read: impossible) time picturing any Giants unproven farmhand having an OPS over .800 with full-season AB numbers (actually anything over .700 is difficult to type)

2.) Throw an ass-load of money at Teixeira so Zito doesn’t have to continue slumming with low-pay gamer douches.

by RotoHead on Sep 15, 2008 3:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

1)Same guess as yours for Ishi
2) McClain and a cheap young semi-prospect (Harper?) battle for backup 1B job.

by DesertFox on Sep 15, 2008 3:36 PM PDT   0 recs

My guess would be about 13 HR, .260 AVG and about .320 OBP.

Honestly I think Bowker could put up better power numbers, but not as good of an OBP.. Both can hit for about the same sorry batting average.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 15, 2008 3:36 PM PDT   0 recs

No McClain please

Aurilia is a better choice for bench role/1B insurance. McClain is just as old and less versatile (since Aurilia also has middle infield experience). And if the Giants value veteran clubhouse presence (as they obviously do), Aurilia over McClain means one fewer “clubhouse guy” needed elsewhere on the roster.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 15, 2008 3:58 PM PDT   0 recs

Aurilia? MI?

I have to disagree. Sure he’s got experience there, but I’ve got experience golfing and I’m no good at that either. There’s a reason why Bocock was up to begin the season, because Aurilia (as well as Velez and Castillo) couldn’t cut it as SS. Aurilia played 3 innings of 2B this year, last year he played 21 games at 2B and SS versus 77 games at the corners. Only 9 of those games were at SS.

He hasn’t been a SS since his days in Seattle in 2004, and a 2B since his first year in Cincinnati.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 15, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey!

Looked it up and Scott McClain has Ss experience too! A few innings for Sacramento and he played it in his mid 20s too!

Actually, Justin Leone is the answer. He’s played smatterings of SS and 2B throughout his career and was playing in the OF too in Fresno. Look Sabes! I can play CF!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 15, 2008 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not saying he should be starting at second.

However, versatility is valuable in a bench player, and I would rather send Richie out to man 2B than McClain.

Unlike McClain (or Leone), Aurilia has actually demonstrated that he can hit major league pitching.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 15, 2008 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"McClain is just as old and less versatile (since Aurilia also has middle infield experience). "

Aurilia didn’t utilize his middle infield experience and likely wouldn’t utilize it if he were on the team next year.

“Aurilia is a better choice for bench role/1B insurance.”

McClain likely has more power and has far more experience at the positions we’d need him at compared to Aurilia.
Plus McClain is worth less than Aurilia (if a few million really matters).
And you can also send him down if he turns out to be completely useless.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 15, 2008 4:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed, he probably would not be needed at MI (especially since we have eleventy-two second basemen), but as I said above, versatility is always valuable in a bench player.

“You can send him down if he’s useless” is a really bad argument for picking one player over another. If Aurilia is completely useless you can DFA him. Same difference. The money difference isn’t enough to matter.

McClain’s MLE projection from his 2008 Fresno stats, .251/.344/.431, is pretty close to Aurilia’s actual 2008 line of .285/.332/.425. That’s not a significant difference in power.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 15, 2008 4:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm for McClain

a) Not using this as a plus for McClain, but MLE’s have plenty of flaws and in truth it’s very hard to know what McClain would do with playing time.

b) Aurilia’s defense at MI isn’t worth discussing and as you pointed out we have a plethora of MI options on this team

c) There is a financial difference

d) McClain sends a message to the fans. Sure, at 36, not a youth movement message but a message that we are going to approach the way in which we acquire players differently. Aurilia is a representation of past thinking, where Sabean would go with veteran proof over upside. McClain doesn’t have upside in the traditional sense, but he does at least have the upside of showing power and possibly exceeding RIchie’s production. If Richie even repeated his 2008, I think that would be considered a major victory for him

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Sep 15, 2008 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, I'll bite

Why would it be a major victory for Aurilia to repeat 2008 but anything less than that for McClain to do so? Granted MLEs are flawed but we have nothing less flawed that suggests McClain would be better. Both will be 37 next year and can be expected to be about the same place on their career-decline curve. Scott McClain’s power display consists, so far, of 2 (two) major league homers.

As far as messages sent to the fans, here’s how I parse them:

Aurilia: “Sure there are lots of faces you don’t recognize, but we’ve still got that guy you liked back in 2001.”
McClain: “We’re so cheap even our grizzled vets are dudes you never heard of.”

I just don’t see how Scott McClain on the 2009 roster sends any kind of positive message to anyone other than Scott McClain, his immediate family, and other overage ex-prospects toiling in our farm system.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 15, 2008 5:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs