Draft Position Update (so far)
by haverecords on Sep 12, 2008 3:25 AM PDT
42 comments
I figured it was a good time to post an update of the current standings, as far as draft position goes. Keep in mind that Washington will will have the 9th pick, and it is entirely possible that Hosmer and Alvarez will be available for this draft, with the 3rd pick being Pitt, and the 4th being KC.
Washington 56 90 .384
San Diego 57 90 .388
Seattle 57 88 .393
Pittsburgh 60 86 .411
Kansas City 62 83 .428
Atlanta 65 82 .442
San Francisco 65 81 .445
Cincinnati 66 80 .452
Colorado 67 80 .456
Oakland 67 79 .459
Detroit 70 76 .479
The Giants would currently be 7th, but that could turn into 10th depending on the Hosmer and Alvarez situation. I'm hoping that the Giants end up with a top 5 pick, as it is some what frustrating to go through a season like this, and not get a top 5 pick, and the talent level (as far as we currently know it) isn't deep this year.
It seems that Was, SD, Sea, and Pitt will be battling for the top 4 (though KC could be a factor for the 4th). Atl or SF might 'overtake' KC for 5th, but that seems to be about as high as the Giants could end up--and they may well finish out of the top 10 altogether.
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So...
The draft could come out this way?
Washington
San Diego
Seattle
Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh
Kansas city
Kansas city
Atlanta
San Francisco
- pick? Jeez….
I know this is sort of OT…but has anything happened with Alvarez and Hosmer?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 12, 2008 5:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it might help that Pitt and KC probably wouldn’t be willing to take two people asking for top dollar. They’d probably have to take a value pick with at least one of those.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Sep 12, 2008 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they likely wouldn’t draft Hosmer and Alvarez (unless the teams switch).
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 12, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hosmer and KC could happen again. After all, they both seemed to want it to happen the first time. KC could probably even do the same exact contract (or with slightly more cash) right after the draft without drawing much ire from the Commissioners Office for going over slot.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 13, 2008 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first arbitration hearing was yesterday, and this is expected to take a couple of months to play out. Which means Pdero Alvarez is going to be delayed at least a year before hitting FA, not to even speak about the lost devolpment time, and what an A-Hole he’s doing to end up looking like. All this for $200K, when he’s already agreed to $6 mil? Boras is an A-Hole for pushiing his client throught this mess.
by tyrannoman on Sep 12, 2008 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he going to play indy ball? That’s probably between A and AA, right? It isn’t as if he’s going to lose a lot of development time. The major risk is getting hurt without having signed the big contract.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 12, 2008 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if this sentiment has been beat into the ground already in the plethora of REBUILD IN 2010, CONTEND IN 2009/11 threads, since I’ve sorta been skipping them, but if the Giants are too be any good in the short term (2009-2011), they need the current crop of prospects and former prospects to be have some good in them. Even Velez. If the young bullpen doesn’t blow games, Henn pitches into the 90s again, Juggernate hits another HR or two and draws another walk or three, and the Giants keep winning themselves out of a top pick, we’ll have to console ourselves with the hope that September wasn’t a fluke for these guys and they can help the next good Giants team be good in under 5 years.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Sep 12, 2008 6:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That.
String together all those flashes of brilliance. How many AA players did we see? Ignorant positivity concerning ongoing big league experience
"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott
by victor frankenstein on Sep 12, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the other!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 12, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s still difficult to fathom that there’s a team worse than the Giants, much less six of them.
by Natto on Sep 12, 2008 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How do Pittsburgh fans..
Put up with it for so long? I mean, we thought the team sucked when it was winning 95-100 games, now look how much we think they suck.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 12, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Seattle is the dark horse winner in this race to the bottom.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 12, 2008 7:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Remember how people were predicting that the AL West would be a battle between Seattle and Anaheim Los Angeles? Good times.
by Natto on Sep 12, 2008 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember howpeopleidiotic tv analysts were predicting that the AL West would be a battle between Seattle and Anaheim Los Angeles? Good times
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 12, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say something like that, but I was feeling nice this morning.
by Natto on Sep 12, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be bad cop!
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 12, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no bad cop. There’s good cap and Batman.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 12, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hosmer won't be available, I don't think
Alvarez? Maybe.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 12, 2008 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
but if one is, they both are, right? Both teams went past the midnight deadline, and Homser has been pulled from his rookie league team pending the outcome of the inquiry.
by tyrannoman on Sep 12, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a gut feeling. I’m fully prepared to be wrong.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 12, 2008 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hosmer had a commitment to Arizona State n’est-ce pas? If I were in his shoes I’d see if I could get back on that and go to ASU for two years. It sure beats sitting around while his agent Asshole McGillicuddy beats this idiocy into the ground and causes Hosmer to lose development time. I can’t say that Hosmer would go as high in the draft after his junior season like he did this year. But it’s a bed made lie situation now so that doesn’t mean diddly.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 12, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure that as he played one or two games for one of KC’s minor league affiliates, he cannot go back to play ball in college anymore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 12, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah zot. I didn’t realize he had already played games as a pro. That would keep him from enrolling at ASU for sure.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 12, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure if that’s true or not — I can see an arbitrator being necessary on this issue as well. While he has played in a couple of pro games — he himself has retroactively not yet signed a pro contract. So the situation seems to me that he was incorrectly allowed to participate as an amateur in a pro game. Whether the NCAA (as capricious a power arbiter as there’s ever been) would see it that way or not is beyond me. But they have traditionally allowed players who were pros in one sport to compete as a college amateur in another (think Danny Ainge or John Elway).
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Sep 12, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about hiring an agent? You hear about that all the time with basketball players coming out of college early. Once they sign an agent they can’t withdraw from the draft and go back to school.
Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.
by SF Pete on Sep 12, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dennis Dixon formerly of the Oregon Ducks also played in the Braves system. But is that allowed because Dixon and the others did not play on the varsity team for their professional sport? Such as Dixon playing football and not baseball at UO?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 12, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, he may be better off going to an independent league and playing for a year rather than commiting 2 years to ASU. Hard to say for sure. I just can’t believe the stink that Boras is raising over this. I know he doesn’t care what his (or his clients) reputation is, but how can this be good? Let’s just say, for arguments sake, that the Pirates are forced to pay the extra $200K. Baseball $$ aside, any chance of local endorsements for Pedro in the Pittsburg area are set back years by this stunt. I just don’t get it. Boras has to be pretty sure that Alverez will be declared a free agent, otherwise none of this works at all.
by tyrannoman on Sep 12, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance...
this stunt is because Alvarez doesn’t want to play in Puttzburgh? I mean 200k is pretty insignificant when your bonus is like 6million. If so, can’t say as I blame him.
I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.
by camwoody on Sep 12, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it could be, but then why not just tell Pittsburg that before the draft, or just not sign the contract?
by tyrannoman on Sep 12, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe he got cold feet. Maybe he got a better understanding of the org through his dealings with them over the months. It’s too bad really. It was like the 1st good pick for Pitt in a while, or at least since McCutchen.
I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.
by camwoody on Sep 12, 2008 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I’ve read is that this is really a pissing match between Boras and MLB and Alvarez is really just a proxy.
What a mess. Though remember back in the 90s, when a whole bunch of teams, including the Giants, lost their rights to their draft picks because of some loophole in how their contract offers were written? That was even worse. Of course, the Giants drafted Matt White, whose career was quickly derailed by injuries, so maybe they dodged a bullet in hindsight.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Sep 12, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does suck that the Pirates finally make a splash in the draft and sign a truly talented player, then get stuck in this mess.
by tyrannoman on Sep 12, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to think, once this is done, Boras is going to lose a fair amount of " face" and reputation here. I just don’t see an end game for this were he doesn’t.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 12, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he pulls this kind of crap all the time and he keeps getting to represent the top talent. i’m pretty sure he’ll do alright…
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Sep 12, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is messing with another team not directly in the contract. A guy can make only so many enemies before he runs out of people that will make deals with him. Need an example look at Barry Bonds case. He sits and Sexson get a second job this season? Sure Boras is in no danger of being in the poor house but piss enough of the owners off and they just will not deal much with you.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 12, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the Yanks and Red Sox always will. and they always will have money.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 12, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hating on Pittsburgh
That could be it. But then, why agree to the deal in the first place (even if it was barely past the deadline?)
In my estimation, Alvarez (and/thru Boras) should be arguing that his contract is legit and tell the union to back off. He did agree to it.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 12, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can’t really do that now.
For one, the complaint was not filed on behalf of Alvarez, against an apparent breach of the CBA that undercut the leverage of players. Boras could try to call of the dogs here, but the dogs aren’t his to call. It is in the union’s interest to the press the case, as it gives them leverage against the owners for the next CBA—particularly when you consider that the owners were likely going to push for a slotted pay scale for the draft. At the very least, their pressing this case will likely make the deadline a true deadline (unless the ruling is just a slap of the wrist that upholds the contracts; and if that is the case the union would like to know that, and would likely consider a completely different approach for the next CBA).
The three possible outcomes (in general, not the particular):
1. Contracts Upheld with either A) a slap on the wrist, or B) stern warning; though if it is a stern warning it would likely propose severe penalties for similar future action.
2. Unilateral action on the part of the Commissioner’s office is considered null and void, thus the deadline had passed. The players are eligible for the next draft. Penalties then would be separately considered for the breach of the CBA.
3. The Unilateral action on the part of the Commissioner’s Office constitutes a breach of the CBA specifically targeted against these players harmed them in such a way as to allow them to be Free Agents.
1A and 3 are unlikely. 1B and 2 are for more likely. Outcome #2 makes the most sense legally but that doesn’t mean the arbitrator will rule that way.
Only the very unlikely 1a is bad for the union, and that outcome would be the same as if no complaint was ever filed.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 13, 2008 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It worked for Luke Hochevar! lulz! Although to be fair dude got paid, so does it really matter to him that he’s not that good?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 12, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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