Is that he thinks his only (long)shot to make it at this point is if he can somehow revive himself as a switch hitting 4th OF.

I don’t know if those types of team would be obsolete in to days ball.

What i do know is the Giants INF has been mired at the bottom of MLB for production on either sides of the ball. So reeking for the next 1-2 seasons is already a foregone conclusion. We don’t have any large amount of obviously superior talent ready to infuse into the Inf so any “upgrades ” will be gradual and partial. As long as those “upgrades” are not under contract for multiple years and are under 30 ( so Botchy will bench them when appropriate) we are as close to golden as we are going to get.

I like the comparison of Manny Burriss to Ramon Martinez as a utility infielder—as far as quality may be concerned. I see Ramon as the better hitter; Manny as the better fielder and of course runner. Ramon’s bat made him a little less of a liability at the corners, but Manny’s defense plays well up the middle.

May I respectfully disagree with your thought that Manny Burriss hasn’t looked as if is hitting over his head? The last I looked, a third of Manny’s hits were infield hits or bunts, he was hitting very, very few balls deep - which means outfields will begin bunching him in more and more - and his line drive rate of 12.5% was about two-thirds the average for a major leaguer.

I do like that Manny has actually cut down his strikeout rate from the minor leagues, but that may be due in great part to his batting from his stronger right side a much higher percentage of the time than when he was playing everyday in the minors.

Very small sample and not very meaningful, but how would you say Manny is hitting since he began playing every day?

you make a decent point, but these so called experts are often wrong.

Absolutely… anybody who projects the potential of baseball players is going to be a wrong a lot. But “these so called experts” are going to be right a lot more often than the collective McCoven brain trust. Can we agree on that?

What round was Brian Wilson picked in again??

The 24th. But I’m not talking about draft position… I’m talking about projection once these guys are actually playing minor-league ball. (This would also be a more salient point if Brian Wilson was a great, special player… the idea that he’s an elite reliever is more proof of this site’s tendency to overrate Giants, not a repudiation of the “so called experts”. He’s been decent, and there’s reason to be enthused, but he’s not a great reliever right now. I thought we all knew better than to fall in love with big save numbers.)

How many teams passed on Tim Lincecum??

Nine, for a variety of reasons. One team took Evan Longoria; another team took Kershaw; other teams took guys like Andrew Miller and Brandon Morrow, who are far behind Lincecum but could still excel. Billy Rowell could still be somebody. Other teams were trying to save money.

But the reason Lincecum slipped to tenth - which is still pretty damn high - is that teams worried if he’d hold up health-wise. The thinking on Lincecum was, pretty universally, “he’ll be great IF he can stay healthy.” The thinking on Frandsen, pretty universally, is “there’s no real reason to think this guy will ever be a good or even solid major leaguer.” Pretty big difference there.

Alot of fans on this board are always saying we should get prospects like Andy Marte and Ben Zobrist who have great minor league numbers, but have been just awful in the majors. How come we seem to love other team’s suspects, but hate our own actual prospects??

Because those fans aren’t falling in love with numbers. They’re falling in love with the idea that baseball people in the know see, or have seen, star potential in Marte and Zobrist. Nobody sees star potential in Frandsen. It has nothing to do with numbers… minor league numbers don’t mean much if they’re not accompanied by projection.

Nate Schierholtz is another example of this.

He absolutely is… he’s another guy who probably won’t be a good major leaguer. You can’t find a single baseball pundit - we’re talking about people who do this for a living, people who understand the game far better than any of us - who doesn’t think Nate Schierholtz is a AAAA player. To which the McCoven responds, “But he hits .300 in the minors, with power!” Yes, he does. They know that. They still don’t think he can hack it in the bigs, and I think they’re probably right.

I pointed out how well Kevin did in the minors, the fall league, and the majors last September especially. What does the guy have to do for you to think the scouts might be wrong here??

Frandsen did well in the minors, primarily by hitting for high averages. That skill usually doesn’t survive to the majors. He wasn’t very good in the majors last season, at age 25. Not awful—there are many players who start in the majors who are as bad as Kevin Frandsen was. But that doesn’t mean he was solid… he was solidly below-average. And, fall league? Really?

Look at it like this. The scouts say, “Kevin Frandsen doesn’t have much potential as a major leaguer.” Your response is, “He posted a .710 OPS at age 25.” Their response would be, “exactly.” He’s not young, and he was below average. Doesn’t that prove their point, not yours?