McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Phillies Beat Lowe, Dodgers Bar-right-arrows



Tim Lincecum vs. Felix Hernandez


Star-divide

Myself and my friend Chandler were talking about who is better and we have been at a stale-mate. So, I’m going to break down stats, age, injury issues, pitch quality, repertoire, etc. 

Tim Lincecum’s player page:
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=453311
http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/linceti01.shtml

Felix Hernandez:
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=433587
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernafe02.shtml

Age and Years in the Majors

Age:
Lincecum: 24
Hernandez: 22

Years in the Majors:
Lincecum: 2nd year (Played 2/3 of his first season)
Hernandez: 4th year (Played 1/3 of his first season)

Hernandez came into the league at age 19, far before he was ready. His stuff was ready, but he wasn’t ready mentally or physically. Hernandez didn’t have the stamina, injury resistance, or mindset of a major league pitcher when he first came up. He, like many young pitchers, succeeded in the beginning of his career due to lack of scouting reports and unfamiliarity, finishing 2005 with an ERA of 2.67. But in 2006, American League hitters figured him out, and Felix finished 2006 with an ERA of 4.52. Tim Lincecum as well came into the majors with quality pitches, but not quite ready mentally. Unlike Felix, he ended his first season, in 2007, with an ERA of 4.00, but has come back in his second year, vastly improved and tuned, fielding a current ERA of 2.68. In the past two seasons however, Felix has brought his ERA to 3.92 at the end of 2007, and currently is at 3.04. 

Repertoire and Pitch Quality

Tim Lincecum’s best pitches (fastball and curveball) are slightly more dominant than Felix’s, but Felix has a deeper quality in his repertoire. Lincecum has slowly been improving his changeup and if he can perfect it, he will be just as deep as Felix. They both top out around 101 with their fastball, but Lincecum has better movement on his fastball and generally averages around 2-3 MPH faster than Felix, especially since Felix tends to throw his two-seemer more often due to it’s superior movement from his 4-seemer. Felix has a wide-variety of good pitches, but none as dominant as Lincecum’s dynamic duo. Lincecum’s curveball and fastball, may be the filthiest duo of pitcher in the game right now.

Injury Issues

Everyone who hasn’t read Sports Illustrated’s article on Tim Lincecum still questions his durability. To the average eye, a 5’11 170 lb person throwing 101 MPH does not seem normal or good for the body. In fact, throwing a baseball is considered by many as the most violent act on the human body in sports. Yet, Tim Lincecum’s perfect, albeit odd-looking, mechanics have kept him out of health issues his entire career. He never comes to a stop in his motion, which keeps the momentum flowing through his entire windup, taking pressure off the arm. On the other hand, Felix Hernandez had to be placed on the 15-day DL earlier this season with an ankle injury. Both appear to have solid mechanics and neither should sustain any serious injuries throughout their respective careers.

Stats

See the 2nd links under each name at the top of the note for detailed stats. Lincecum currently (2008 season) has a better record, ERA, more Ks, more Ks/9 , less BB/9, better Whip, and less H/9. Tim is statiscally better in almost every category, but not by much. Felix has similar stats, but not quite as good as Lincecum’s. Lincecum has also been unfortunate enough to have the bullpen blow 4 wins for him, and Felix has been no luckier.


Some short stats:

2008:

Tim Lincecum: 12-3, 2.68 ERA, 175 Ks, through 157.7 innings.
Felix Hernandez: 7-7, 3.04 ERA, 127 Ks, through 136 innings.

Last 6 games:

Tim Lincecum: 2-2, 3.86 ERA, 45 Ks, through 42 innings.
Felix Hernandez: 1-2, 3.58 ERA, 36 Ks, through 32.7 innings.

We should also look at the quality of teams they play and how they fair against those teams. Lincecum clearly plays in an easier league and a much easier division, but that appears to be misleading. I looked at how well they preformed against the best hitting teams in their respective leagues. Texas, New York Yankees, Boston and Detroit for the AL and Cubs, St. Louis, Philly, and Colorado for the NL.

Hernandez in 9 games against those AL teams went 2-4 with a 3.53 ERA and 43 K’s.
Lincecum in 9 games against those NL teams went 6-1 with a 2.07 ERA and 65 K’s.

My Final Conclusion

I think both players are incredible pitchers with incredible futures, but with Tim Lincecum’s more sufficient progress, better stats, and his current contention for a Cy Young (in his 2nd year), I give Lincecum the edge.


Now, Chandler and I are both biased to a certain extent on this topic, so I would appreciate hearing other people’s opinions on the matter.

N11519249_35646053_5794_medium

via photos-f.ak.facebook.com

N11519249_35646067_3361_medium

via photos-d.ak.facebook.com



 

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

2 recs | Comment 96 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Tl, DR

j/k. I thought this was going to be another “blah blah” Fanpost, but it looks pretty good. Let me read it and get back to you.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 10:50 AM PDT   0 recs

Okay, now that I have read it

I didn’t realize Tim was throwing 101 MPH?....

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 10:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think either Tim or Felix throw 101. Also, Felix’s mechanics are not solid, from what I’ve read, and most consider him to be a considerable injury risk.

All that said, I would think that Giants fans would rather have Timmy and Mariners fans would rather have Felix. Which is just fine by me.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Timmy and Felix

have both reached 101 before.

Riddle:
I wear blue and white, I arrive to baseball games in the 4th inning, I leave in the 7th inning, my team's home stadium plays movie trailers between innings, I read magazines during the game, I play with beach balls, and I love the wave.

Who am I?

by 25 on Aug 7, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Timmy at UW

I read Felix has, but I don’t know where.

Riddle:
I wear blue and white, I arrive to baseball games in the 4th inning, I leave in the 7th inning, my team's home stadium plays movie trailers between innings, I read magazines during the game, I play with beach balls, and I love the wave.

Who am I?

by 25 on Aug 7, 2008 11:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He hasn’t thrown that hard in the majors IIRC.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 11:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think a lot of Mariners fans would have ALSO liked to have Timmy. But screw them, they can’t have him!!!

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Aug 7, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember watching a game at Mays Field and I swore the gun was running hot on Timmy when it hit 102 MPH

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

102?

My friend Jim was telling me at our great McCovey Chronicles Takes Over McCovey’s Restaurant event that when I took him, my son and another friend to Tim’s debut, the gun read 101 and 102. I certainly recall 100, maybe 101, but I didn’t remember the 102.

But as I mentioned when Tim was pitching for San Jose, Tim HAS hit 101, and it is highway 101 that runs from San Jose to San Francisco.

by sharksrog on Aug 7, 2008 12:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OH, SHARKSROG!

You card, you. :-D

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn’t believe it either. That radar gun can be way off sometimes.

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 7, 2008 1:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I also saw the debut. The stadium gun did indeed read 101 more than once.

I think the gun was rigged to raise the excitement, I hate Shane Victorino.

"Forget it Donny, you're out of you're element"-Walter Sobchak

by icanplaythird on Aug 7, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Travis Ishikawa Didn't Read?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s pronounced Dominic Republican.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 7, 2008 10:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I misread that as Demonic Republican

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 7, 2008 11:04 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought it was Dominican Republican. Thanks for lowering the bar for women in sports media, Amy G!

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 11:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Apparently it was actually even worse than I initially thought.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 7, 2008 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it's is difficult to compare the two.

Tim had the luxury of learning his craft in college while Hernandez was thrown into the fire. I think that difference is significant. Where would Tim be had he been in the league the past 4 seasons? How might Hernandez have developed had he been handled more carefully? Tough to know.

I would take Lincecum but only because I actually think he is less of an injury risk. I am not sure about Hernandez’s motion. It seems fairly violent. However I am not an expert on mechanics so I really shouldn’t talk.

As an aside; Tim throws tops 98. I have never seen any gun that said he throws faster than that. He has even said that he is not sure if he can throw 100mph because he has never tried. Felix can hit 100 from what I hear. I think we have to realize that guys that can hit a legit 100mph are extremely few and far between.

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Aug 7, 2008 10:58 AM PDT   0 recs

I think we have to realize that guys that can hit a legit 100mph are extremely few and far between.

Totally. The difference between 98 mph and 100 mph is huge in terms of what it takes to get there.

I refuse to comment on mechanics and injury risk because I don’t know shit about it, and frankly, I challenge anyone who is not a doctor or a orthopedic expert of some kind to really know anything about it, either. Just because you read some articles on THT doesn’t make you a credible judge of a pitchers mechanics.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There’s some common sense stuff at work with mechanics. For example I don’t think you have to be a doctor or surgeon to know that Rob Nen’s delivery was dangerous to his body.

by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well,

I will just say that I have read at least 2 maybe three articles in which “experts” have said that Felix’s delivery is violent and they are concerned about injuries. Of course, I have read hundreds of articles that have said Timmeh’s arm is going to explode also so… take it for what it’s worth… very little.

Also, do we trust the radar gun at ATT? I know I don’t trust the Gameday gun. I don’t know who to trust anymore.
/Weeps

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Aug 7, 2008 11:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You are my favourite person ever. Academic institutions know almost nothing about structural biomechanics (I did my masters thesis on soft tissue modelling), and it really pisses me off when the word of ‘experts’ who don’t have any background in the field is taken as gospel.

by Graham on Aug 7, 2008 11:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitching Mechanics

I guess I don’t understand what’s so complicated about Pitching Mechanics. An ideal pitching motion is one that allows the pitcher to use the powerful muscles of the legs, butt, and core to generate momentum. Like a catapault or more accurately like a trebuchet.

Attempting to excessively use the arm stresses the relatively weak (compared to the above muscles) muscles of the shoulder and elbow. It’s better to stress the body’s lower half than the upper half.

And anything that interferes in the smooth delivery of momentum generated by the body’s powerhouse muscles represents lost velocity.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I just don’t see how you have to know much about anatomy other than the fact that a man’s legs are generally stronger than his arms; and that hips are a more resilient joint than shoulders and elbows.

by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 11:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There's a huge difference between generally evaluating mechanics

and having any idea whatsoever what it means re: injury risk. There’s not enough information out there on how differing motions exactly stress the ligaments in the elbow (as one example) to make injury prediction any more accurate than tarot reading.

You can talk about having clean versus stressful mechanics, that’s ok.
The minute you move into injury risk territory though, you are just guessing. And it’s not an informed guess.

by Matthew on Aug 7, 2008 11:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You can talk about having clean versus stressful mechanics, that’s ok.
The minute you move into injury risk territory though, you are just guessing. And it’s not an informed guess.

Bingo.

I will also point out that what may look clean, or may look stressful, may not be.

I do know a little bit from lifting weights, and what might at first seem the best or most “clean” way to lift something is not always the best – often it stresses muscles in ways you don’t realize.

Think about the most basic example – picking something up. Gracefully arching the back and bending over to pick it up looks clean and unstressful, but is a fucking horrible idea.

Squatting down into an akward position and using your legs to lift looks a lot less “clean” and downright akward at times, but is much much less stressful on your body.

I think you really need to understand the body and how it all works at a much deeper level than you will ever get reading a few articles on the internet to be able to say anything other than the most obvious statements about pitching mechanics.

I sure as shit don’t know anything.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Weight Lifting

Your picking something up analogy is good for describing Timmy’s mechanics as well. It looks dangerous but when you really think about it, it’s actually the best way to throw, at least for a svelte pitcher. Sidney Ponson would probably bust a kneecap.

by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 12:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Who says?

You? You are decreeing that the way Tim throws is the best way to throw?

Sorry dude, but unless you start coming at me w/ PHD’s in bio mechanics or some other related field, you’re just another dude who read something on the internet.

Which is exactly what I am – and no matter how much I read on the internet, I don’t pretend to know that the way Tim throws is good, or bad.

Or anyone else, for that matter.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 12:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That depends.

How good looking is Mrs. Matthew?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 8:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Since you don't trust stuff on the net

For sports training in general, I suggest the following books:

Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, Mel Cunningham Siff, PhD in Biomechanics. As an introductory text.

For a more advanced treatment, Science of Practice of Strength Training, Vladimir Zatsiorsky, PhD, professor emeritus of kinesiology at Penn State and member of the IOC medical committee on injuries on sports, chief medical officer of the Soviet olympic teams in 1988, among other qualifications

Supertraining, MC Siff. For the most comprehensive one book treatment.

For the lower back specifically, Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance, Stuart McGill, PhD, biomechanics. Among other honours, a member of the editorial board of SPINE, Journal of Applied Biomechanics, has worked with various NBA adn NHL teams.

Also, Neuromechanics of Human Movement, Roger Enoka, PhD biomechanics.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Aug 8, 2008 8:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His analogy unfortunately isn't correct.

AT ALL.

What he calls a “fucking horrible idea”, is one of the MOST FUNDAMENTAL real life human movements.

It is precisely because of the myth that deadlifting is a “fucking horrible idea”, that many people injure their lower backs when lifting up a weight from the floor:

Firstly, they never learn the correct technique to deadlift.

Secondly, their hamstring, ass, and lower back muscles, are woefully weak and underdeveloped.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Aug 8, 2008 8:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagreement

Chris Lincecum disagrees with you. When I ask him about various pitchers, which I do from time to time, he identifies for me what he considers to be injury risk. As a recent example, there is a pitcher he told me in late March should be used in a certain manner. That pitcher was used differently this season and recently suffered an injury.

I agree that no one can likely identify WHEN a pitcher will become injured, but I think there are people who can at least identify their risks.

By the way, I am no mechanics expert, but I did make a comment to prospect expert John Sickels that has turned out well thus far. Two winters ago I tried to convince him that Tim Lincecum was a better prospect than Phil Hughes and Homer Bailey, the two pitching prospect John rated above Tim.

One of the reasons I cited on behalf of Tim was that despite having thrown many more innings than the two younger pitchers, he had never suffered an injury and never even felt the need to ice his arm. I pointed to Tim’s comfortably throwing long toss foul pole to foul pole the day after throwing 146 pitches in his two-hit, 18-strikeout shutout over UCLA. I mentioned that both Hughes and Bailey had missed time due to injury.

In the season and two-thirds since, Tim still hasn’t iced—and I believe both Hughes and Bailey have missed time to injury twice. My guess is that John now considers Tim to be the better prospect, although both Hughes and Bailey are two years younger than Tim and still have time to catch up.

Tim’s motion is designed to take the stress off his arm, which would seem to me to be a very good thing. I would think Tim’s biggest injury risk lies in his core, which contorts wildly, providing torque to drive his motion forward. The good news there is that Tim has the flexibility of a gymnast—and that he has worked to increase the flexibility and strength of his core ever since he began pitching.

Has anyone else here read “Saving the Pitcher” by Will Carroll, who does work for Baseball Prospectus, mlb.com and perhaps SI? I learned a lot from it.

When asked two winters ago which pitcher he would start his franchise with for the next 10 years, he chose Tim Lincecum, even though Tim had yet to throw a major league pitch at that time.

Oh, I mentioned that to John Sickels, too. I bet John wishes now he had listened. :)

by sharksrog on Aug 7, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sure Mr. Lincecum disagree's

He has a remarkable record of 100% success rate.

With 1 sample. That naturally makes him an expert on the subject.

You know better than to nitpick a few samples and try to suggest a trend. One could select 50 young ML pitches at random, declare that they all had problems with their delivery that would lead to injury at some point over the next few years – and most likely be rewarded with at least a 50% success rate. That would, on the surface, seem pretty good.

That is not a demonstration of predictive ability anymore than predicting that oil prices will go up in the next 10 years would be.

My underlying point is, I don’t know shit about pitching mechanics, and neither do you (or anyone else here, for that matter). I see plenty of people “evaluating” pitchers mechanics on the internet, and frankly, I think they are nearly all full of shit. It is typically regurgitation of something someone read somewhere else on the internet, and rarely based in any area of expertise.

reading a book != expertise. People don’t spend 7 years in school to learn something if it could be learned in 20 minutes on the internet.

Tim could go on to never miss an inning due to injury, or could rupture his rotator cuff tomorrow. It would do nothing to prove Chris Lincecum right OR wrong. Small Sample Size™ applies.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 12:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You can choose not to look

But it’s pretty obvious who pitches with good mechanics and who pitches with bad mechanics. It’s just as obvious as when hitters take good swings and when they take bad swings.

by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It is?

Good mechanics = low injury risk
Bad Mechanics = high injury risk

Thats different than a guy who has an inconsistent arm slot and his location suffers (akin to hitters swing). Totally different situation.

We are talking about injury risk, not performance. I challenge you to pick a group of pitchers who you think have “bad mechanics” – and then let history determine if you have an injury rate any higher than a group picked at random. I bet you won’t. I mean, if it’s obvious, you should be near on 100%, right?

If it is so obvious, then why do you scouts, managers, GM’s, etc struggle with this question every day ?

If Lincecum’s mechanics are so obviously beautiful, then why did he drop to #9 because so many professional scouts thought he was a guaranteed injury.

It is amazing how you can have so many professionals disagree on something so obvious, huh?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 12:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm a weightlifter,

have competed in weightlifting and powerlifting. One of my favourite competitive lifts is the deadlift, where you gracefully arch your back and bend down and pick up a VERY HEAVY weight. It is NOT, repeat NOT, a fucking horrible idea.

The key to bending and picking up a weight is keeping your back ARCHED. As long as you keep it arched as much as possible, the stress is going to be on your HAMSTRINGS, ASS, with your spinal muscles: longissimus and illoscostalis, specifically longissimus pars lumborum and illoscostalis par lumborum, working statically. As long as you keep your back arched, the stress is on the muscles, not the ligaments.

Also, rounding your back, at the bottom of the SQUAT, is VERY dangerous, and VERY stressful on your back.

The deadlift, arcing your back and bending over to pick up a weight, is one of the most fundamental sporting, nay, REAL LIFE movements. I suggest you look at the lower back muscular development of some weightlifters and powerlifters. They have huge muscles in their lower back that most people didn’t even know existed.

Also, try watching weightlifting in the upcoming Olympics. In both the Snatch and Clean and Jerk, the lifter arches his / her back, bends over, and picks up a heavy weight, before proceeding to pull the weight to arms’ length above his / her head, or to his / her shoulders.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Aug 8, 2008 8:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i find your ideas intriguing

and would like to sign up for your newsletter.

i

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 8, 2008 8:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you kinda just proved my point

It is “conventional wisdom” that you should lift with your legs, not with your back – and bending your back to pick things up is a bad idea.

I get it all day long in safety meetings at work, my doctor tells me this, etc.

Apparently, you actually know a little more about the specifics, and know it can be done safely and effectively. (trusting you on your word here, who knows…)

So, while the casual observer, armed with conventional wisdom, may judge a pitchers motion as “dangerous,” it may be in fact be far from it – and very safe and effective. (and likewise, a motion that looks “safe” may actually be doing severe damage”.

But we, the casual observer, just don’t know enough about what is really going on to make that judgment. That is my whole point right there – The difference between dangerous mechanics and safe mechanics is FAR from obvious.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 8, 2008 8:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I apologise for being too aggressive

This, deadlifts not safe, is just a pet peeve of mine. For weightlifters and powerlifters, lower back strength is a fundamental part of life. So we obsess about the issue :)

I have no opinion on Lincecum’s / Felix’ mechanics. I have absolutely no knowledge of pitching mechanics.

The problem is that too many doctors, unless they are say, specialists in sports medicine, often get the complex issues involved in back safety wrong. Leading to it seems, huge numbers of people suffering with back problems.

Also, to clarify, when I say arch and bend over, I don’t mean that you keep your legs straight. Your legs should also be flexed. The key is to bend at your hips, and not at your waist, and try as much as possible to stick your ass out backwards, and your chest out forwards.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Aug 8, 2008 9:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have a picture of this, but I read Timmy topped out at 101 at UW

Riddle:
I wear blue and white, I arrive to baseball games in the 4th inning, I leave in the 7th inning, my team's home stadium plays movie trailers between innings, I read magazines during the game, I play with beach balls, and I love the wave.

Who am I?

by 25 on Aug 7, 2008 11:05 AM PDT   0 recs

shopped.

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOLZ

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Aug 7, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, you can see some pixels around the “photo by Merkin” stuff. That was totally added later.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2008 1:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No, I was there

And that part is real.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 1:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus

Who’s gonna fall for that? Snatchwig a photographer? Puhleeeeease.

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Aug 7, 2008 3:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember that game

I think it did read as high as 101 at one point, not that it matters that much.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Aug 7, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The stadium gun could've been hot

but back to original question: I’d take Felix overall

He has amazing strikeout stuff, in 08 has the highest avg for fastballs (95 mph), is a top groundball pitcher, and is 22 freaking years old!

You can’t go wrong either way. but I’ll take Felix

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 7, 2008 11:14 AM PDT   0 recs

Let's talk a little about Radar Guns and speed readings.

A Radar gun works VIA the Doppler effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect

As such, it is extremely dependent on the angle of measurement relative to the direction of motion of the object who’s speed is being measured. Measuring speed perpendicular to a moving object will give you a reading of essentially 0, whereas measuring it inline with the object will give you as close as possible to the true speed.

Additionally, when you are measuring the difference in wavelength of two radio waves, it’s not very big. The difference in wavelength of a a wave reflected off a ball going 101 mph and one going 98 mpg is like – infinitesimal. All sorts of things, like AD converter resolution, noisy signal, other sources of RF interference, etc can throw this measurement off.

Add in that really what you are measuring is the velocity of the fastest thing in the gun’s “sights” (which should be the ball, but could also be some other part of the pitchers body in his motion, even after he releases the ball) and you get a measurement that isn’t very accurate.

Something as simple as what side of the rubber the pitcher is throwing off of could easily effect the reading on the gun by a mph or two. (by changing the angle of measurement, for example)

I wouldn’t feel confident that the gun was accurate to more than +- 2.5 mph w/o a serious effort at validation. On top of that, I wouldn’t really trust the gun to have a precision higher than +- 1mph.

So Timmys 100 MPH at ATT could EASILY be ~97 MPH somewhere else, and the same pitch measured twice could EASILY give you 100 mph or 98 mph depending on how the variables changed between pitches. Move the gun, get a different value. Change the arm slot, get a different value.

So I try not to get tooo worked up over radar gun readings. It would be interesting to see what efforts MLB have put in place (if any) to try to eliminate some of this inherent variability.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:21 AM PDT   0 recs

Don't forget the PR aspect

Of having your star pitcher touch, or top, the magic # of 100 MPH.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

/Brian Wilson throws 159mph

by xanthan on Aug 7, 2008 11:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

/ with a 109mph change up.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 11:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Or

Or at least 159 kilometers per hour. :)

by sharksrog on Aug 7, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Gameday is extremely accurate these days.

They’ve put a lot of correction into the system.

by Matthew on Aug 7, 2008 11:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That doesn't surprise me

But is interesting to know.

I wonder when it comes to the park guns, however.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Some park guns use gameday

some do not. And even the ones that do can choose to use a different point along the pitch path to report.

Gameday’s initial velo reported is either at 50 or 55 feet from home plate, I cannot recall which, but they use a consistent approach.

by Matthew on Aug 7, 2008 5:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't doubt he can throw 101

But he usually doesn’t. I would guess it’s easier to locate the ball if he takes a little off of it, which would explain why he averages 96 or so. Also, I’m pretty sure he only throws a 2-seamer. Felix is great and all, but Lincecum is more polished and already accomplishing more than Felix has. Also, Lincecum is a smaller injury risk. I think Lincecum has the edge, although that doesn’t mean both aren’t supremely talented.

by boonitez on Aug 7, 2008 12:02 PM PDT   0 recs

After looking at the normal and Sabremetric stats

I would say that it is pretty much a stale-mate and that both pitchers are among the best of their generation and will have great careers. Just thought I’d spark up the discussion.

Riddle:
I wear blue and white, I arrive to baseball games in the 4th inning, I leave in the 7th inning, my team's home stadium plays movie trailers between innings, I read magazines during the game, I play with beach balls, and I love the wave.

Who am I?

by 25 on