Take a swig of whiskey and bite down on something, this (rebuilding) is gonna hurt.
I felt compelled to write this post after the .420 Kevin Fransden bashing rant yesterday. Although this isn't designed to be a pro-Frandsen support piece, I do want to say that I went to high school with Kevin, and if he wasn't hurt he'd be giving us everything he had on the field. The kid has had good (if not great) minor league numbers (better than Ishikawa, who everyone is clammoring for) and only 73 more major league at bats than Bowker. Oh yeah, he's only a year older too (25). So, lets let the guy come back from injury and show us what he has. He may never be an all star infielder, but I know the guy can play.
Now, the reason that I'm writing this is in response to all of the people who think we "should" be good right now. I've been a Giants fan longer than I can remember (I'm named after Matt Nokes... long story), and these three years are some of the worst that I can recall. However, EVERY TEAM has these stretches, and it's up to the fans to just grin and bear it.
The problem with the Giants, however, is that we (both the fans and the org) have been so used to the grand hullaballo of homeruns and pennant chases that we became a little spoiled. I'ts not easy going from the most feared lineup in the NL to the oldest bunch of has-beens in the MLB. However, it HAD to happen, and I think we're on the right track to recovery (Posey, Noonan, Villalona, Bumgarner, Alderson, Gillaspie, et al)... albeit a slower, more painful one than necessary.
Although I like some of the things that the Giants have done recently, that's not to say that I support all of the decisions that the organization has made, in fact, I flat out disagree with most of the things they've done 2006-Present. I don't believe that there is much to this team that will contribute to the next great Giants team (Lincecum, Cain, and Wilson for sure, Lewis and Burriss maybe, Bowker possibly), but the fact that we are opening up some positions is reason to be somewhat optimistic.
That being said, I don't think were doing enough, and rebuilding shouldn't have to hurt this much. Who's tha main problem? I think many of us can agreee it's Sabean. I don't fault the guy for trying to build a winner, because that's what expected of him. The problem is, he's never had to build a winner around complete crap. He's always had something to add to. He's a good GM for a good team who needs to get great, and an ok GM for a moderate team who wants to get good. He's not the kind of GM that the Giants need right now. You cant add a few pieces to this team to make it compete, it needs a complete makeover.
I know I'm not the only one who was pissed after the trade deadline. However, I was even more furious when I heard him say that Molina and Winn weren't traded due to the fact that they were important to our chances in 2009. There is no way, barring instant Villalona explosion and Posey moving to shortstop and hittin 1,000,000 homeruns, that we will win next year. Molina was one of the hottest names at the deadline, there is no question that he should have been traded.
So, yes, rebuilding will hurt. But it shouldn't hurt this much. We as fans need to accept the process for what it is... and Sabean needs to go. My master plan?Management has got to get rid of Sabean. His replacement? How about trying to pry Andy Friedman away from the Rays by offering him an ownership stake (Think Beane, Billy). He's exactly the type of GM that the Giants need (drafts well, willing to make a risky trade, signs his young players), and he would make this process a lot more bearable. I know that's sort of a pipe dream, but in a time like this, thats kinda all we have.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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65 comments
Comments
First off
I want to say that your girlfriend is hot. Sorry, but that is what I identify your screen name with now :)
Secondly, I agree with you whole heatedly.
I went to College w/ Kevin Frandsen – but I didn’t know it at the time :)
Does that count for anything?
This team, and it’s fanbase, is spoiled. We don’t have the balls to really suck it up and lose big for a few seasons, so as a result – we kinda put a band-aid (Aurilia, Durham, Winn, Molina) on it and play poorly indefinitely.
Molina should have been Traded, Winn may not have received enough interest – but he should then be benched. We need to see the “young” guys for the entirety of this season and quite likely the next if we ever want to pull out of this 65-70 win rut.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 8:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I’m gonna have to get to the Shane Company soon before she figures out how much she’s slumming it.
Angel Villalona: Waiting for fastballs since '07.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 7, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
You and me both.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiosity, how do you know his girlfriend?
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Aug 7, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe here?
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Aug 7, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebuilding does hurt, will hurt andtends to hurt more then a person intially figures. Never buckling down and starting rebuild hurts much, much worse. ( yes Sabean I am looking at you. 4 years should be long enough to either start crapping or get off the pot.)
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 8:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are there people who think we should be good now? :-/
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 8:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No
But there are people who think that having guys like Molina and Winn around to keep this team from having 105 losses is good.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's crazy
I guess I don’t personally kow any Giants FANS who think it’s important to win 75 games as opposed to 65. OTOH, I could see Giants management arguing that they need to put a “watchable” product on the field in order to guarantee asses is seats.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Benjie, benching Randy
As I see it, the only cut and dried case is that Omar should have played a lot less. As fans, we don’t know enough about Benjie’s relationship to the young pitchers to fully assess his value to the team’s development next year (not to say he shouldn’t have been traded but perhaps that he shouldn’t have been traded just to dump salary—who knows what we were offered). As for Randy, I wouldn’t be upset to see him sitting more and a rookie getting some at bats, but he’s pretty clearly the best ballplayer we can put out there at the moment. All the posts demanding that he be treated like shit seem to assume the young players and other players around the league are too dumb to see themselves in how others are treated. The more the players are treated like completely expendable meat, the less likely free agents are likely to be to want to come here and the more likely the young players are to bolt at the first chance they get at free agency.
by NearestNorwich on Aug 7, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It is perfectly reasonable
To have Winn sit 50% of the games right now to “rest” for the remainder of the season. No disrespect to him, just managing the assets properly.
Winn does us even less good next year if he gets hurt playing in a meaningless game this season. Same with Bengie.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OoOoOo predicting a Mr. Robert’s ‘08 year for Winn next year?
sorry for putting words in your mouth but the fact remains even a semi healthy Roberts would have blocked Lewis in his brake out year. The D.L. is the only was Boulder Skull does roster development.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the 50% solution
I don’t think we’re far apart. My complaint is with folks who rant about dumping or DFA’ing every vet so the people being “blocked” can play full time in the majors. That smacks more of amateur hour than rebuilding. I think we need to put the best 9 players on the field for the most part when we are playing division leaders and contenders, which at the moment usually means Winn in right in situations like the upcoming Dodger series.. And I suspect that’s what the players themselves want for the team. Things change in Sept., when the players know vets are going to sit to give teams time to look at the Sept. call-ups. On the injury point, I think the risks of a position player getting an injury this season that knocks them out of next season are low enough that it shouldn’t enter into decisions on how much to play them.
by NearestNorwich on Aug 7, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina
I’d like to see him here, if for no other reason than to help Pablito learn catching at the big league level. That said, I’d prefer to see Molina playing no more than 3 out of every 5 games anyway to help keep him rested.
Might as well rest Randy and even Aaron some more, too.
by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I completely Agree.
Altho I’m not all that convinced Molina is one of the games great catchers. I think he mostly skates along on being able to hit a little.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine and all, but as soon as someone tries to tell me that the rebuild is almost over, I will punch them in the face.
by xanthan on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/ has vision of xanthan going American History X on the guy. ” Kiss the curb !” Of coarse xanthan looks like Kent Tekulve in this vision makeing it all the better.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey xanthan, the rebuild is almost over.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on Aug 8, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bite my wallet
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Aug 7, 2008 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
go bells!
-class of ‘86
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 7, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ah, the always classy Saint Francis lancers
if i recall that’s a pretty good school on the penisula.
i mean, it’s not in the same league as Bellarmine, but, still, a pretty ok school :-)
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 7, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
But as a graduate of LOHS (public school FTW!) we always thought bellboys were pretty gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"pretty gay"
...the best smack-talk the public school system can muster.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 7, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
That is safe for this blog :)
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dang it’s gonna be hard to work today half drunk with a cracked tooth
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Aug 7, 2008 9:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about foothills...
but after I bit down on the whiskey bottle, I couldn’t bring myself to drink the bullet.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Aug 7, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With All Due Respect......
If you are named after Matt Nokes then you are too young to really understand “GIANTS” pain. I am 43 years old and have suffered far too long….Having said that, I enjoyed the run the team recently had and I like the direction the team is now taking.Sabean was late in getting this team turned around but I think that it was more of the fault of team ownership than Mr Sabean…..I don’t think the rebuilding stage will be as long as you might think…I think we will be extremely competitive in 2010….Hang in there Matt and enjoy the kids play….It will only get better!!
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Aug 7, 2008 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In no way did I mean disrespect...
And I love watching the kids play! I just hate the “Molina is a part of our winning team in 2009” talk. This is the worst stretch I remember, I said that.
Angel Villalona: Waiting for fastballs since '07.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 7, 2008 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think my biggest problem is
Even if “Molina is a part of our winning team in 2009” (which, theoretically, could happen – and prematurely ruling that out is probably a bad idea) why is he playing now?
I guess this applies more to Winn, Omar, and Roberts than Molina, but I just don’t see the point of playing these old guys. They aren’t going to get any better, and are only going to get worn down or injured. Regardless of whether or not you think having these guys is important for next season, essentially shutting them down NOW is the best choice, on either count.
We need to get Winn on the bench and either Velez in RF or TI up and Bowker in RF.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
might i add – Or if Lewis needs surgary then do it now so he can play more of next seson.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am another non informed medical opinion saying Fred, if you got to do the surgery, get it over with. Already proven your point for 08, you are a major leaguer. We got guys we can look at/showcase now and early 09, no pennant race is involved either way. Horwitz and Ishikawa are on the 40 man and are suspects. Nate too. Winn still available to anchor the lineup.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Aug 7, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hear hear!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis has been quoted as saying
He is afraid if he takes too much time off for the bunion, he will lose his starting job (to Roberts).
I don’t blame him. Imagine if Fred stops playing now to get that taken care of and Roberts puts together a hot 6 week stretch?
Dave Roberts, The starting LF for YOUR 2009 San Francisco Giants.
If you don’t think this is the way Bochy would handle it, you are deluding yourself. Clearly even the players know this.
One more example of this situation being fucked. It’s supposed to be the Old guy who is afraid to take time off to lose his position to a young kid – not the other way around.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Veteran Savvy
DFA Lewis!
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Aug 7, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn your irrefutable logic and facts.
I am really hoping the Giants part ways with Boulder Skull. If Sabeane need an old skewl guy to be comfortable with a rebuild go find Art Howe.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not ruling it out...
But all signs point to no way jose.
Angel Villalona: Waiting for fastballs since '07.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 7, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of TI at 1B and Bowker in Left or Right depending on Lewis’ health. That would solve the whole argument of whether the Giants should be playing TI or Bowker right now.
by Change Up on Aug 7, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina should be playing because Steve Holm has all the qualities of a very good backup catcher. I think it’s too early for Sandoval to be called up, and Benjie is the best option for a number of reasons. And, please, for the love of jebus, don’t play Velez everyday in RF. I don’t know if I could watch that. I have a feeling he would make Glenallen Hill look Clemente-ian by comparison.
by tyrannoman on Aug 7, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he is young and has played 2nd. So of coarse Bluoder Skull needs to give him a tour of the O.F. look how well that worked with Frandsen last year.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, No shit.
They should just try to trade Velez, because I am convinced they don’t think he can play.
Amazing what 140 ML AB’s can or can’t do for your career.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s just the AB’s in Eugenio’s case. He has an appaling lack of feel for the game. I don’t know how else to put it. I was his biggest fan after his audition last September, but the mistakes he’s made this season have been so elementary, it’s depressing. I think I would throw him all around the diamond hoping to sneak by with his defense for a day or two at each position, but not let him play every day.
by tyrannoman on Aug 7, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who thinks we are supposed to be good now? Nevertheless...
I wasn’t aware anyone around here thought the team was supposed to be good this year, and not many (even casual fans) think it will be much better next year.
But I’m a season ticketholder, a commitment of both heart and money, and I’m not exactly rolling in either one. I am willing to do it (or else I would not do it), but I expect certain things in return. Mainly, I expect that the team will be managed intelligently and that if we are bad this year, then the roster will be managed so as to test drive and educate the young guys, clear out the old guys in ways that help us, and so forth. In other words, I expect to see progress, or at least preparation for a better future, and not just running in place. I am not a very satisfied customer this year. Vizquel was starting too long into the season; too much Aurilia; and on and on, all complaints well covered on McCC.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 7, 2008 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This
I’ve stopped buying tickets to games for the same reason. Not because the team sucks, but because I disagree with the way the team is being managed.
I will gladly pay to watch the young guys lose. More so than to watch the old guys sometimes win, even.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too much Aurilia? Maybe at first. Too much Castillo.
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
by jasomack on Aug 7, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that, too. Too much Castillo.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Aug 7, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT Just Curious:
The Giants have sucked for longer than I’ve been reading McCC/Boof. What’s it like around here when we’re good? Did everyone just sit at their desks and stare blankly at the monitor? Did the collective all wait for Russ Davis to pop out with a runner on 3rd and one out so they could start a diary about how many superior 3rd basemen existed in the league?
I guess I’m just sayin that even when the rants about how much the Giants fail epically start to get old, it helps to at least have somewhere to go rant.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Aug 7, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, something about collective misery is amusing in its utter depressing glory.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know!
I’ve been reading for two years, posting for one, and looking back I recall finding this blog because the Giants were heading down a long road of suck and I wanted to find people who could share in the suffering and bounce ideas for rebuilding the trainwreck. Anyway, that’s all.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Aug 7, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not the oldest of old timers...
...but my experience with ELM OBM and MCC has been that it’s always a good time to freak-out and jump to conclusions. If the alarm bells aren’t ringing, it probably isn’t a local baseball blog.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 7, 2008 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the gene hackman is fully
reply-fail compliant
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 7, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebuilding only hurts if you look solely at wins and losses
kinda like sabean
but if you can look at a young team who improves with every month…then it doesnt hurt so much….it feels good
it feels good because watching kids is fun
sabean doesnt get that
bochy definitely doesnt get that
neither does baer
send the unholy trinity packing
OUT SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by bacci40 on Aug 7, 2008 10:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but remember
kids don’t stay kids. Blink twice and suddenly they’ve turned into teenagers—and there’s nothing fun about watching teenagers!
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Aug 8, 2008 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. Before you know it they’re telling you to go fornicate with yourself and they’re stealing your car.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 8, 2008 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rebuilding is like masturbation; if you do it right it feels good.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on Aug 8, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want to tell Sabean he’s doin it rong with the uh…er…
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so is that why he is carrying a fork arround?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 8, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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