McCoven CW

by oldjacket on Aug 6, 2008 8:42 PM PDT Comment 83 comments

I've noticed that while the McCoven argue an awful lot about this or that thing, there does seem to be an awful lot that the McCoven agree upon. THese things may or may not be common to Giants fans, but I thought I would take a stab at defining what seems like the current conventional wisdom as of August on this site. Let me know if you think I've missed something, included something wacky or just plain disagree.

Jose Castillo is a cheap stopgap but should not take at bats from homegrown young players. Perhaps he should not even take that many at bats from grizzled fan favorite Rich Aurilia.
Brian Wilson is a pretty good reliever, and has a reasonably bright future in a late inning role.
While Travis Ishikawa is not a guarantee to be a useful major leaguer, he should be given a shot on the big league team either this year or next.
Nate Schierholtz may not prove to be a better player than Randy Winn, but Winn's value is not such that trading WInn to find out represents a huge risk.
Of all the possible uses of the team finances, money spent signing draft picks is currently the best use.
Matt Cain is not a #3 starter.
Eugenio Velez is not likely to be a major league regular.
Jonathan Sanchez's current struggles do not obliviate the progress he made earlier this season.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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While I am not an upper eschelon member of the McCoven I would like to comment.

Yes, I believe that most of us think that Castillo is what he is ( a guy that could GIDP with no runners on). This unfortunately not in line with how Sabean feels about the human rally killer.

As far as Born Again Brian Wilson goes; I think most of us think he could be a real deal closer with between 35-40 saves a year and a 3era just so long as he comes into only 1 run games.

I would agree with everything else except I would amend one. I think that ( and I think some agree with me) the money should be spent not only on signing draft picks but also scouting Latin America, hiring instructors that can teach the kids how to take a walk and signing our young core long term.

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Aug 6, 2008 8:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t agree with you about Sabean’s perception of Jose Castillo. If he was happy with Castillo, why was he scouting Hank Blalock at the deadline?? He also drafted Gillaspie. Castillo is as good as gone after the season. The only way he stays is as a backup, and I don’t even expect that.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Aug 6, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

upper escelon McCoven member

Does that mean his/her mom let him/her move out of the basement and into the room over the garage?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 6, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

with beads for a door

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Either that, or it means someone furiously typing their comments from a Unabomber-style shack in an undisclosed location in the Montana wilderness.

by jcb9 on Aug 7, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i knew i never should have agreed to meet you people IRL!!!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this IS real life!!!

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.

by S.F. Giangst on Aug 7, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool idea for a post. Perhaps we could add:

-Alex Hinshaw should be given a chance to show that he can be more of a contributor in the 8th inning than Walker or Taschner have been thus far.

-Aaron Rowand, while expensive and a bit redundant due to our number of outfielders, has not been a terrible signing nearly one year into his contract.

Also, I think the jury is still out on Brian WIlson.

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

IAWTC

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 6, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Praise from Caesar

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beware the Ides of Spring Training

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Aug 7, 2008 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So which one of you traitorous bitches is gonna stab me?

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The answer is obvious isn't it?

Et tu, Brutesentiment?

Only 863 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 7, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

irl lol

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 7, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1 on the lol

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

on Rowand

It could have been expected that he’d be a fairly decent player early in the contract and become a waste of money before it expires and that’s part of why it’s a terrible signing (plus he was coming off a career year in a hitter’s yard and positional redundancy).

With regard to his contract, $8 million is a bit much for .279/.344/.425 (OPS+102), which means he’s been about or slightly above average offensively this season. His defense hasn’t been as good as advertised, either. Next year he makes the same and then $12M 2010-2012 (when he reaches age 35).

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 6, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought his offense would take more of an immediate hit due to park factors.

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rowand Splits

Home – .256/.319/.400 (OPS+ 87)
Away – .301/.368/.449 (OPS+ 113)

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 6, 2008 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s spending less time in bandbox parks than he has in his entire career, and yet he is hitting at roughly his career numbers—-I consider that a positive surprise, if a slight one.

You’re right about the whole contract though. What I meant to say was that I was expecting this to be more of a Zito situation, where the player is a disaster from Day One.

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

small sample size alert!

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on Aug 7, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We aren’t talking about 40 at bats here. There are only 7 weeks left in the season.

by rotorueter on Aug 7, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His career year also came on a roster with quite a few other good hitters. How can you blame his production when guys aren’t getting on base ahead of him, and there are ZERO decent hitters behind him? Maybe by the end of his contract the Giants can change that, but if they don’t, I think its incorrect to say it was a “terrible signing.” Andruw Jones’ picture is in the dictionary next to “terrible signing,” Aaron Rowand is far from it

by m34josh on Aug 7, 2008 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for making my point for me. as a role player in Philly he had a career year in a hitter’s yard. That’s what the Giants paid for, i.e., something he wouldn’t duplicate in this park and on this team, which is part of why it was a terrible signing. also, we didn’t need a CF.

The signing wouldn’t be as bad if it was a 3-year deal, but it wasn’t.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He makes $12M per year - $4M bonuses in 08 & 09 to go w/ $8M salary

Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...

by tedfordfan on Aug 7, 2008 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you’re right. forgot about that. He also has a limited no trade clause.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I, for one agree, with the first two. I’m surprised about Brian Wilson, though. His periphereals seem solid.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Aug 7, 2008 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt Cain is a fourth starter.

I don’t think there’s any consensus on Brian Wilson.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 6, 2008 9:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Jose Castillo is a cheap stopgap but should not take at bats from homegrown young players. Perhaps he should not even take that many at bats from grizzled fan favorite Rich Aurilia.
—Rich Aurilia will not be a part of the future at ALL, no matter how much we enjoy watching him redo the velcro on his gloves 10 times per AB. Jose Castillo was a pretty good prospect a couple years ago, and maybe there’s room for improvement.. There’s also not a real strong replacement for him, perhaps Fransden but who knows how he’ll be after the injury..

I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..

by lmaozedong on Aug 6, 2008 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No. A couple of years ago, Jose Castillo was in his third year as a semi-regular for the Padres, and was posting a Feliz-like OBP without even a Feliz-like SLG and striking out three times more than he walked. “Room for improvement?” Based on his age, he should be about in his peak by now, and based on his track record, his play thus far this season is about the best we can hope for.

by jcb9 on Aug 6, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rich Aurilia is what he is, though. There is an extremely small chance that Castillo goes Melvin Mora on us in the near future, and that small chance makes him worth playing as long as he isn’t blocking anyone.

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And while you’re right that Rich Aurilia has no place in the team’s future, he has two advantages over Castillo: first, he has a history of being a good Giant, thus giving him some lingering feelings of fondness from long-time fans, and second, he’s been a better hitter than Castillo, both throughout his career and also this season.

by jcb9 on Aug 6, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

im not normally a fan

of fan favorites. But I am a fan of Aurillia, it could be because he’s not Castillo, I donno.

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Aug 6, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Third

Aurilia leads the league in not Being Jose Castillo.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tied with everyone else else, though.

Only 863 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 7, 2008 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

except for Joe Castle himself

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Aug 7, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is A LOT of room for improvement.

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on Aug 7, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would generally agree

I agree with what you have written for the most part. I don’t want Ishikawa taking away at-bats from Bowker, but “so long as yoah interests don’t conflick wit my interests, god bless.” (Godfather.)

I agree with Camwoody, especially his point about rebuilding a structure of scouting AND teaching in Latin America (and elsewhere, such as Asia, if that proves fertile ground).

I agree with Rotoreuter that Hinshaw should be given a regular gig to see what’s there. I guess the jury is maybe out on Wilson, but is sure is handing notes to the court clerk giving an indication that it’s close to a verdict.

I don’t personally have much expectation that either Schierholtz or Ortmeier are going to pan out for the big club, but would of course be delighted if they would.

What’s conventional McCC wisdom about Kevin Frandsen’s future?

I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 6, 2008 9:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps David Eckstein, without all of the undeserved fanfare?

And as annoying as Eckstein’s defenders are, cheap and young David Eckstein clone would have value for us.

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen – Some were in the far reaches of long shot.

Don’t get me wrong enjoyed The Flying Squirrel a lot but I was unsure of his skill level being high enough to stick in the MLB before he lost the year to an injury. Add to it that Boulder Skull is still going to be making playing time decisions and I don’t think it looks good for him.

Similar odds for Hennessey. I am not sure what went wrong but it seems to be showing few ( to none) signs of being righted soon.

As for Lowry I am very dubious. They already rushed him back so he could be less effective after an injury. I tend to assume they will do it again tell proven otherwise.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

has hennessey’s velocity been down? should be be shut down at this point? has he had a spell of bad luck (which can make a league-average pitcher look… not so good)

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on Aug 7, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sure.

Expect for an impressive outing in Colorado Springs his lines in his last 10 starts have not been encouraging. Yes it’s a hitters league but he is a arm with Mlb experience so that should off set some of that.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 7, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he can't get AAA hitters out

There isn’t much reason to bring him up…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You forgot one very obvious one:

Bruce Bochy is a blundering idiot whose giant head hides a tiny, tiny brain.

by jcb9 on Aug 6, 2008 10:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

THIS!

by rotorueter on Aug 6, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 6, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But man, does he have a LOT of CSF.

He’s the world’s leading CSF donor, in fact.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2008 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be contrarian

After years of watching managers absolutely destroy bullpen arms, it’s very nice to have someone who actually knows how to manage pitchers.

Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...

by tedfordfan on Aug 7, 2008 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

After years of watching managers absolutely destroy bullpen arms, it’s very nice to have someone who actually [kind of] knows how to manage pitchers.

There, I fixed it. Bochy still mishandles the bullpen quite a bit, and while I think he’s more or less been good with the starters, he’s been unnecessarily reckless with Tim, Matt, and Jonathan a few more times than I can really forgive him for.

Plus, didn’t you hear? Tim leads the league in pitches thrown. Matt Cain is second. That doesn’t mean a lot outside of the overall league context, but it sure doesn’t SOUND good.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

All that suggests is they certainly aren’t being overly cautious.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which part? The unnecessarly reckless part or the pitch totals part?

Because I can see plenty of ways to agree with you if you mean the latter, but I can’t possibly reconcile “unnecessary recklessness” with simply not being overly cautious (except in the VERY literal sense that being reckless is literally not being cautious).

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the latter.

Leading the league in pitches says to me they certainly don’t have the kids gloves on.

Whether that is good or bad, I don’t know.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 7, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, then I’m definitely with you there.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Possibly, he just looks incredibly good in juxtaposition to Dusty and Felipe, I’ll grant you. But overall, I’m relatively happy with how he handles pitchers.

Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...

by tedfordfan on Aug 7, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

Has white/blonde lashes on his right eye and black/brown lashes on his left eye. How many other managers can claim that?

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Aug 7, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just figured out what "CW" means

do i get a prize?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 6, 2008 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It’s a crappy channel targeted toward teenyboppers, right?

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Aug 6, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't talk now

watching Gossip Girl

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 6, 2008 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well done, sir!

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Aug 7, 2008 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guy who recorded "Convoy" in, what, 1973 or so?

I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."

by Mayor of 311 on Aug 7, 2008 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

adding

Barry Bonds was one of the greatest (and very possibly THE greatest) hitter(s) of all time.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 6, 2008 11:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

additions to current conventional wisdom:

-The Big Phone is a source of pride and over-priced food (and everyone aside from me seems to know what a cha cha bowl is)

-we definitely know how to draft early round pitchers

-no one has any idea what goes through sabean’s head while he’s sitting in front of a laptop

our moderator is clearly the most clever of all sb nation leaders what other site would have raised a couple hundred bucks to give their blog leader a holiday gift?

-we believe the nasty rumor that dodgers fans eat their young

Dodgers fans eat their young.

by redhornet78 on Aug 7, 2008 1:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs