Ten Foot Poll
by Grant on Aug 5, 2008 11:26 AM PDT
68 comments
On June 29th, Jonathan Sanchez pitched seven innings against Oakland, striking out six and walking one. His ERA went down to 3.79, and he was fifth in the National League in strikeouts. Hearts were aflutter over the new complement to Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum. Instead of two of the best young pitchers in the league, the Giants had four. In my everlasting wisdom, I wrote:
Yeah, way to not jump the gun there, genius. Now Sanchez’s ERA is in the high-4s, and it seems that all of his promising starts were bunched up at the beginning of his season. The initial pegging was accurate.
Something to remember: Sanchez’s previous career high in innings pitched was 125 for the A-ball Suns in 2005. Wow. Last year, he only had 75 innings, and the season before that he finished with 95 combined innings. Sanchez is only two innings away from his career high
Another thing to remember: Sanchez has gone through ineffective stretches similar to this already this season. Over one three start stretch, Sanchez was unable to get out of the fourth inning twice, and unable to get out of the fifth inning in the other, while walking 15 in 13 innings.
Yet another thing to remember: Sanchez has averaged three walks a game and a little over five innings per start for most of the season. Maybe the recent struggles aren’t fatigue-related. Maybe the sub-4.00 ERA was always a mirage, and the control problems were bound to catch up with him.
The problem: what to do with Jonathan Sanchez as the season winds down. The solution: we will know shortly, after this blazing display of democracy in action:
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Put him in the bullpen, then make him a starter, then put him back in the bullpen before making him a starter again
I laughed.
by xanthan on Aug 5, 2008 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I cried.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are people voting for it? Is this your idea of a sick joke, people?
by chilibean_3 on Aug 5, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it supposed to be
what we want, or what we think will happen? Because that could explain the votes.
by bondslegend on Aug 5, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if what’s what we want to happen, then Grant didn’t include the option to send Jonathan to Baron’s place between starts. Don’t worry, he’ll come back well fed and with all limbs still attached.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 5, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good thing I like and respect you, Baron
Because something mean popped into my head upon reading your comment.
On the one hand, I would never say it about you (it’s not true, for one thing and it’s mean for another).
On the other, it’s funny and so I must at least mention that I had this funny and mean thought.
Only 864 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Aug 5, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tis all good
I run the risk every time I make a risque comment like that. Although I could have just fed him cookies while we played Wii. YOU DON’T KNOW.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 5, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the new code name for it is “cookies,” then.
Gotcha.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 5, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chocolate chip.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 5, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
... er… I’m not sure what to make of that, but I guess it’s better than oatmeal….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 5, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peanut butter
Only 864 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Aug 5, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fudge….
tasteless? too far?
twss
by lincypoo i wuv u on Aug 6, 2008 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well played
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 5, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I voted to shut him down after tonight. As for other people, my guess is because it’s funny in a, “I laugh so that I don’t cry” sort of way.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say give him at least two more starts and see if he’s up to it. What should the Giants do if they choose to take him out of the rotation? Move to the bullpen? A return to the minors?
by Natto on Aug 5, 2008 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
phony trip to the DL?
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 5, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Sanchez could just a bit unlucky lately. His FIP is still 3.85, xFIP is 4.35. He’s got a .409 BABIP over the last 28 days.
All that said, watching him pitch these days, it’s not really hard to see why he’s being unlucky. He’s still getting a good number of Ks, but it seems like when they do make contact, they make really good contact. My memory is fallible, of course, but I don’t feel like he’s getting beat by a lot of cheap hits. In addition, his command has really gone to shit.
I’m still inclined to think this is just a period of bad luck/dead arm, but I still think I’d shut him down relatively soon.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Aug 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where’s the option to stick him at second base for the rest of the year? Team can’t have too many second basemen, ya know.
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.
by Mike Hawk on Aug 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If his velocity is down tonight,
it could be dead-arm from hitting his ceiling, and perhaps they should shelve him and let one of the AAA arms have his slot as a showcase for the remainder of the season. But if his velocity is OK but he is simply having control problems, I think they should let him run out the season in the rotation. I’ll defer to those of you who know pitching much better than me.
To me, part of his problem is the number of innings he’s pitched, and part of it is the relative inexperience and lack of mental toughness at this level, caused by how they’ve mishandled him. If the guy is still throwing 93-94 tonight but getting the ball up, I’m less concerned than if he is only hitting 89-91 tonight.
Meet my three little friends: Timmy, Dirty, and Cain
by Buck Henry on Aug 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If the guy is still throwing 93-94 tonight but getting the ball up, I’m less concerned than if he is only hitting 89-91 tonight.
Fatigue can sometimes lead to poor mechanics, rather than a loss in velocity. This is probably more dangerous since there is a higher likelihood of injury if his mechanics are altered and he’s fatigued.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
So would it just make more sense to shut him down once he gets past about 140 innings?
Meet my three little friends: Timmy, Dirty, and Cain
by Buck Henry on Aug 5, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would shut him down now, personally, although I wouldn’t be upset if he only got a couple more starts.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy on Sanchez
Last year, the Giants were afraid to wear out Lincecum’s arm in his rookie season, so they shut him down in mid-September after he’d thrown 147 innings. Bochy didn’t rule out a similar plan of action with Sanchez.“We’ll decide as we get a little deeper in this [season],” Bochy said. “If he needs a break or we need to skip him a start or even shut him down, if we feel like that, we will.”
I agree with that. I think they’re going to have to shut him down even if he bounces back to his june form. That is such a large jump innings from last year…it’s just better to be safe than sorry.
by superk1ng on Aug 5, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree too, especially the part about skipping a start.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on Aug 5, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have him skip a start sometime in the near future and see if the extra rest helps. If he still isn’t right, then give his spot in the rotation to an innings eater from AAA and shut him down
by m34josh on Aug 5, 2008 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this is the correct answer
I’ve been thinking all season that they need to be careful with Sanchez, particularly because of the way they mismanaged him last season by jerking him around. skip him tonight or his next start just to give him some rest. It isn’t like the team needs him to go out there in a critical game. If they just keep sending him out there, the risk of injury will increase.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 5, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Also, it’s been apparent all season that he just isn’t capable of going deep into games yet. They need to think of him as a five-inning pitcher for the moment.
by Evan on Aug 5, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No place to skip a start
The Giants are about to start a string of 20 consecutive games without a day off. You’d need to bring someone up to fill Sanchez’ spot in the rotation.
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 5, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen start.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 5, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just lead it off with Walker. That way, we can just concede the game after 2 innings.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinshaw/Espineli/Matos/Romo, two innings each?
We don’t really have anyone for long relief at the moment. I guess Yabu is it when he returns.
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 5, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, what about
Scott Eyre? He’s available if the price is right! Back to the future, Sabes!
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Aug 5, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could we get another Defender ( Broshius or McKae) sighting?
The logic behind a Broshius of McKae is they have 5 ( and 4 years) in pro ball going into this winter and it they don’t do badly it could generate some interest among the more pitching starved clubs. Or even give in house competition for the #5 starter role next spring. Neither seem pivotal to the Giants future so any mess ups would have minimal ramifications down the road. Also I really see no starters in Fresno the inspire me enough to think a MLB glance at them is enorder at this time. Of coarse I’ll bow to greater experts on the later assessment.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 5, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Espineli could prolly go 3 or 4. He did that when Sadowski was called up from AA for a start, and Geno did start 24 games last season.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 5, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes this is what i hope would the flow chart management follows instead of the traditional “How long can I keep my head in this dark cave?” model.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 5, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’d like to see the giants restrict the pitch counts from here on out and move to a 6-man rotation in september. maybe not even pitch lincecum or sanchez for the last couple weeks. hennessey and/or palmer and/or someone from AA can eat a few starts. maybe someone shows something for next year, or maybe builds half an ounce of value as a toss-in for a trade.
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
by jasomack on Aug 5, 2008 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted “other (please explain)”. Should I write on the back of the paper and can the proctor give me extra sheets if I need them?
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Aug 5, 2008 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Shut him down when rosters expand
After tonight, keeping the same rotation, he’d be in line for four more starts before Sept. 1. It’s hard to see where they could just skip a start, since there’s a stretch of 20 games in 20 days in there. So that means calling someone up from AAA; the guys available on the 40-man roster are Hennessey and Misch. Neither of them has been pitching well in Fresno. But in September we could call ‘em both up and maybe stitch them together into some sort of ambidextrous Frankenstein’s starter.
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 5, 2008 12:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Could we just forfeit every fifth day?
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
harsh but fair
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 5, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you look at the Fresno “starters” there just doesn’t seem to be a lot there. Aren’t they going to need to clear some of these guys to make way for some other prospects? Bring them up now, throw them to the wolves and if they can handle it, fine, if not DFA and clear some roster space [in Fresno] for someone new.
If Sanchez is still off tonight, I’d like to see him skip his next start.
I'm not much for the whole pitch count thing. I think I'd rather see a starter throw 130 pitches and then skip his next start. Logistically it probably isn't at all feasible...oh well.by Merope on Aug 5, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I wish I knew what I did to get the funky little box and goofy font… cuz I din’t do that on purpose.
by Merope on Aug 5, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
!?
?
?!
?!?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 5, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walker really sucks
It’s the same whether you box it or not.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on Aug 5, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
September is a long way away. His last start scared me; he was four or five mph off his usual velocity. If he’s not back to normal tonight, I’d hope they give him at least a couple weeks off immediately.
by Evan on Aug 5, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other
Pitch him until September, then shut him down and give his spot in the rotation to (in order of preference): Noah Lowry, Pat Misch, the corpse of Brad Hennessey.
Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...
by tedfordfan on Aug 5, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope it’s the reanimated corpse of Brad Hennessey, at least. I prefer zombies to cadavers when it comes to pitching. That’s just personal preference, though.
Only 864 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Aug 5, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's a cadaver...
All his pitches would be the same speed: 0 MPH. On the other hand, it WOULD make him extremely difficult to hit off.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Aug 5, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Six man rotation. Sanchez isn’t the only one who needs his arm saved. Once the roster expands, there no reason not to. But still, I think now should be the time. I’m just not sure who the sixth starter should be.
by cheno on Aug 5, 2008 3:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
SIx man makes some sense
but who for the sixth? Misch?
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 5, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
not Misch
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 5, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’d prefer Hennessey, maybe?
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 5, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
maybe.
I mean, ultimately it doesn’t matter, and Misch might even help us win (the Strasburg lottery). I just blurt out a knee-jerk “ugh” when I hear Misch’s name.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 5, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowry
Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...
by tedfordfan on Aug 6, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm voting for Dusty Baker:
OTHER. Pitch him until his arm falls off.
by Rusty the Robot on Aug 5, 2008 3:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Treat him the same way the Giants treated Lincecum and Cain
they monitored the innings, check the workload based on the previous seasons. Give plenty of rest. Do not completely shutdown unless injury.
by wilriv21 on Aug 5, 2008 7:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i want the org to apologize to sanchez and the fans
the reason for his skewed innings was thanks to the brilliant idea of converting him into a pen guy…then making him a starter again…then back to the pen
here is what sanchez’ real issue is now and always has been
the kid is an amazing talent, but he looses focus too easily
so send him to a sports psychologist
find out what it is that causes this
even miller noted it tonite
do not shut him down, but be mindful of where it is when he loses concentration…note it and when that occurs is when you send out rags…not 10 pitches and 2 runs later
by bacci40 on Aug 6, 2008 2:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
note it and when that occurs is when you send out rags…not 10 pitches and 2 runs later
And disturb the mid game nap? Now isn’t that a bit like asking the staff to excel an be out of position at the same time? Were did you get such a ridiculous idea from?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 6, 2008 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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