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Around SBN: Steve McNair Found Shot to Death

Alive

174246766_ea2fd78204_tiny by Grant on Comment 409 comments

One of the best things about being an amateur baseball know-it-all hack writer is that I can write long missives about what the Giants should do and must do, and what they are idiots for not doing. It can be ridiculous stuff, too.

The Giants – 50 years without a World Series title in San Francisco and counting – are still unwilling to trade for future star Ben Zobrist! Their starting shortstop is sitting there, staring them right in the face. No, they say. We’d rather try out Ivan Ochoa, they say. I’m not sure if they are stupid or just evil Dodger spies for not trading for Ben "Underrated Superstar in Waiting" Zobrist.

Yeah, that’s basically what you can boil this site down to. Note the copious use of italics. And when it’s obvious that I’m spectacularly wrong – if I make, say, the AJ Pierzynski trade of opinion posts – I just forget about it and write something the next day. So it’s easy to write ridiculous things. Any little thing that pops in my head is likely to find its way on this site.

For example, I think the Giants should try Pablo Sandoval at third. He played 21 games there in 2006, so he should be able to pick up the position quickly. The Giants need to stop waging the politics of fear and start making a sandwich of pragmatism! There is no reason that…

…wait. What the heck? The Giants are actually trying Pablo Sandoval at third base? That’s…interesting. There’s a high potential for failure when you move a 22-year-old kid to a position toward the middle of the defensive spectrum with little minor league experience. This move might last a game or two more before it’s exposed as a completely untenable idea.

But, man, how awesome is it that the Giants are trying this? If it doesn’t work, don’t ever speak of it again. Put it in the Bob Brenly column, and slowly back away.

If it does work, though, the Giants have filled a round organizational hole with an exceptionally round peg. The player by which Sandoval should be measured is Garrett Atkins. If Sandoval can’t even approximate Atkins’s defense – and it should be noted that Atkins got his glove stuck in his own zipper as I was writing this – then the experiment is never going to work. Do not pass go, etc.... And to be fair to Sandoval, even though he’s surprisingly agile, this experiment has about a 25% chance of working. But it’s a no-risk, ridiculously high-reward gamble.

A lot of folks have been surprised at Sandoval’s progress with the bat, the organization has been more surprised with his progress on defense. His crazy non-stop, trans-level mashing has given the Giants a ton of options. He could allow the Giants to trade Bengie Molina for a real-live prospect. Sandoval could start at first. Or maybe he’ll prove that he can handle third, which would give the Giants a head start towards a legitimate infield as early as 2009.

When the Giants put Sandoval in the lineup at third, a nasty little voice popped in my head. "Oh, yeah. Fantastic idea. Let’s see, a low-OBP slugger at third base. Yeah, gee, that’s always worked so well in the past." The voice went away – thanks, Woodford Reserve! – but any blanket comparisons to Pedro Feliz are already laughable. All low-walk hitters aren’t created equal. For one, Sandoval just turned 22; there’s a whole heck of a lot of room for growth. And though Sandoval might not take a lot of walks right now, he isn’t a low-contact hacker, either. He can already go with outside pitches, driving them to the opposite field. Pedro Feliz did that once, too. They’re now tied for their careers.

I, for one, welcome our new hot-corner overlord. ¡Viva Sandoval! And ¡viva this crazy unconventional thinking and experimenting!, too. Here’s hoping he sticks and rewards the organization for trying something new.

Poll
Can Pablo stay at third?
Yes
251 votes
No
97 votes

348 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 409 comments

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+109 for "exceptionally round peg"

I <# Pabloooooo!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 10:38 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wtf

i <3 Pablo!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 10:38 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You ice cream waffle cone Pablo???

That doesn’t make any sense.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 10:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I only waffle coned him once, and it was only because i needed the money

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 10:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, well now it makes sense.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 10:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought it was “I cat with wizard’s hat Pabloooooo!”

That still makes more sense than the “I <3 Pablo”, which my brain automatically translates into “I teabag Pablo!”

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and also

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 10:49 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes.

Yes indeed.

Pablo Sandoval wants to rock and roll all night.

by satyricrash on Aug 25, 2008 10:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Love this.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 25, 2008 11:19 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tell Me Again Why

trying Nate Schierholtz at 3B at the MLB would have been such a bad idea?

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 10:49 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His hands are made of stone.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 10:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was tragic, really. He was cursed from the age of 5 as the stone version of King Midas. Then one day, years ago, he clapped at the end of There’s Something About Mary, losing his usual calm sense of self after seeing it opening weekend with a particularly rowdy crowd.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zero Difference

Both moved from 3B in minors because of difficulties handling it. You have zero logical reasons to believe one is more likely to suceed now at 3B then then the other. You just are such a sheep that you can not think outside the box until one of your leaders tells you it is ok to do so.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey

Resorting to name-calling is juvenile and totally uncalled for. Stop it.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 11:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was semi-kidding anyways, I just wanted to say his “hands are made of stone”. Though, I had heard that Nate didn’t have the best hands for third. And, IIRC, Pablo was moved off of third base to “jump start his bat” (whatever that means) and not necessarily because he couldn’t handle the position defensively.

I doubt he’ll stick there long term, because he’s such a big dude, but it’s not totally crazy to try it.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At the risk of taking GRM more seriously than he deserves...

…I’ll also point out that the Giants might have had concerns that Sandoval’s bat would not play at third. His offensive production doesn’t have to be nearly as high to be a league-average catcher. If his defense were equivalent at both positions, he’d be more valuable as a catcher.

Schierholtz, on the other hand, was moved from 3B to RF which is equivalent or higher as far as average offense goes, so the same reasoning could not have applied to him.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 25, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You just are such a sheep that you can not think outside the box until one of your leaders tells you it is ok to do so.

Wow…

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teach me the way, Morpheus, I mean GRM.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey xanthan… I was actually wondering something. I didn’t know how to bring it up before now, but, well…

Oh geez, why is this so hard? ::to self::come on, man, be cool. be cool.

I just… I mean, I was wondering if, you know, if you’re free this Friday – or Saturday! Saturday’s totally cool too, you know, whatever works for you – if you’re free, though, I was wondering if you wanted to, well, take me to your leader.

He’s just, he seems like such a nice guy… and I’ve never been with a n- I mean, been led by a nice guy before.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Geez, rainman, you usually give it at least a few posts before you start throwing around the personal attacks.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on, man. groud doesn’t think. He just does. That’s what makes him so cool.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:15 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anybody who says “think outside the box” isn’t.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:07 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why there’s a box.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 11:08 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But what if the box is full of delicious assorted chocolates? Then I’d like to stay in the box.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But what if all the delicious assorted chocolates have to be taken out of the box for you to even fit in there?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You put the chocolates inside you inside the box!

Did I just blow your mind?

by kaliber on Aug 25, 2008 1:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thinking outside the box

Doesn’t necessarily translate to success in the real world.

/ logic

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 11:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Pablo Sandoval can maybe play third, then Schierholtz MUST be able to play third as well!!! LOGIC!!!!!!!!

Next up: we bring Felix Rodriguez out of retirement as our new catcher. He played there as an amateur he must be able to!!!!!

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:17 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we need a good punter, too. If only any of these base-ball players used to do anything worthwhile with their time like punting….

Now THAT would be an athlete.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:18 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not Saying That

just saying that if trying one at 3B makes sense then why didn’t trying the other earlier make sense? Neither of us (or likely the Giants) have any idea which one is accually more likely to suceed at 3B.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 11:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I suspect the Giants have a better idea than you or I. They do have a scouting department and they watch him play every day.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:36 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The scouting department are sheep!

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 25, 2008 11:47 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree The Giants Have A Better Idea Then You Or I

Just saying that they are taking (and have admitted as much) a shot in the dark with little to go on beyond hope. Seems to me they could have taken a simular shot in dark earlier on Nate and thus gotten rid of Castillo even sooner.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 11:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s sucCeed, and simIlar.

Thank you.

by bondslegend on Aug 25, 2008 12:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's hard to not think outside the box regarding Pablo.

After all, he’s bigger than the damn box!

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!

by BruteSentiment on Aug 25, 2008 4:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just for the record, I was never against trying Schierholtz back at third.

Also just for the record, stop being a jackass.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 11:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't Recall You Ever Being For It Either

My point is that many here (not saying you) can’t be for something until they see that is the direction the group think wind is blowing.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or To Be More Percise

they can not seriously consider the possibilities until they feel they have cover for doing so.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 12:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t think that’s true when it comes to individual personnel decisions.

I will concede that there’s some general anti-Sabes/anti-Bochy groupthink here, though.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why Do You Capitlize Every Word In Your Topic Header?

You Don’t Have To, You Know. I Guess You’re Just So Anti-GroupThink That You Don’t Even Follow Rules Of Grammar And Spelling.

by bondslegend on Aug 25, 2008 12:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Thinking Outside The Box

Duh.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Aug 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be percise

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??

by tobias on Aug 25, 2008 5:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED..........

that perhaps, GRM, that you’re the one who’s off base?

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tell me more of this group think.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I too am interested. Perhaps you have a newsletter we could all subscribe to, en masse?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 12:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Newsletter, probably

Too Groupthinky

Only 849 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 25, 2008 1:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Groupthink©! The corporation for loozers!

by bondslegend on Aug 25, 2008 1:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I IS SHEEPS, YOU READ LETTERS, TELL ME-SHEEP WHAT TO DO, BAAAA

Pablo Sandoval wants to rock and roll all night.

by satyricrash on Aug 25, 2008 1:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ME-SHEEP BAAAA

Molina's gonna test his arm...

by Victorious Secret on Aug 25, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BAA RAM EWE

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Aug 25, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SHEEP BE TRUE

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Aug 25, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what do you want to know?

I believe whatever Grant says.

by Group Think on Aug 26, 2008 1:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butt Pee and Group Think are the same person.

I think that wins for the most unlikely sentence ever written on this site.

by Grant on Aug 26, 2008 2:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have we pushed GRM over the edge?

He isn’t going to go all Full Metal Jacket on us, is he?

Only 849 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 25, 2008 12:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This Is My Keyboard

There Are Many Like It But This One Is Mine. My Keyboard Is My Best Friend. It Is My Life. I Must Master It As I Must Master My Life. Without Me, My Keyboard Is Useless. Without My Keyboard I Am Useless. I Must Type My Keyboard True. I Must Think More Outside The Box Than My Enemy, Who Is Trying To Groupthink Me. I Must Think More Outside The Box Before He Groupthinks Me. I Will. Before God I Swear This Creed: My Keyboard And Myself Are Defenders Of Outside The Box Thinking, We Are The Masters Of Our Groupthinking Enemy, We Are The Saviors Of McCoveyChronicles. So Be It, Until There Is No Enemy And A-Rod Is A Giant, But Peace. Amen.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 25, 2008 1:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butt peace?

Oh wait, I read that wrong.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 1:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butt Peace

that’s what you have afterwards.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 25, 2008 1:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Props On The Capitalization

That’s Not Easy To Do For A Whole Paragraph Like You Just Did There.

by bondslegend on Aug 25, 2008 1:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

inb4 groug

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I give up

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Aug 25, 2008 11:37 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I give up, too. Come on guys, who’s with us?!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What if our Leader engages in outside the box thinking?

and it becomes outside the box groupthinking? Does the Universe implode?

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 25, 2008 1:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What happens when alternative music becomes mainstream music? Clearly, everything ends with it.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 1:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice post!

I haven’t seen him play much at third but he looked like what I imagined; a heavy catcher trying to play third base.

The Giants tracking of prospects to the majors this year has been a tad wacky, converting guys on the fly in the bigs. Moving Pablo to third at the major league level, doing the same with Burriss at second, and sticking Bowker at first (though, that’s not as egregious as the others). The Bocock move still seems like a poor decision, I think we can all agree on that.

Part of me likes Pablo the most at catcher because if he hits, his value will be highest at that position. But, if he can handle third (maybe a big if) that’s not a bad consolation prize, either.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 10:53 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m feeling optimistic this morning, so I think Pablo can totally stick at third.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brenly game

I just checked it out. 8600 attendance and I was there. Neat?

I remember it being a very strange game that we were laughing about at the time because of all the errors and the game winning/tying? home runs.

I like Pablo at 3b. Let him try it out for a while, it’s not likely he will injure himself so let’s see what he can do. I’m already 100% sold that he can hit major league pitching. He looks like the real deal in the box. He’s gonna start mashing bombs soon, too.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 25, 2008 11:05 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was listening to that game on the radio. When he came up in the ninth, I was thinking, “Oh boy, wouldn’t it be cool if he were to precisely undo all the damage he did earlier …” Then he did, and I did my superior dance.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 11:10 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Excellent

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 11:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i loves me the stirrups, as well as most baseball-related hose.

by cornball on Aug 25, 2008 12:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, what’s with Brenly at third, anyway? I was 6 at the time, and I have some memories of the season, but I don’t recall that at all. It’s not like Bob Melvin was so great that they just HAD to find a way to get him in the lineup.

I do like the name of the guy who pinch hit for Melvin, though: Rick Lancellotti! He had a great career, too: 17 games in 1982, 15 in 1986, and 4 in 1990, all for different teams.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just picked Pablo up on 2 of my fantasy teams

I don’t care where he plays as long as he starts. Plus, the team sucks, so why not see if he can play 3b.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 25, 2008 11:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Pablo does work out at third I’d cry tears of joy.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 25, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

….the other

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he can stick at least 3B part-time, it gives Sabes and Bochy a lot more flexibility in creating a roster and managing it.

Having the option to trade Benjie without having to trade Benjie is great.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 11:22 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t get it. Why do we want to move Pablo from catcher?

However, Woodford Reserve = yum.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:23 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to be able to play his bat at the majors in 2009 if we can’t trade Bengie.

Also, for the future, there’s Buster Posey.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 11:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He’s also going to be our closer.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Making Brian Wilson our new Soul Patch Inspector.

A role that he’s much more comfortable/consistent in.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 11:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

return of the limerick!

There once was a closer named Brian
Oft times his pitches went flyin’
But he grew a soul patch
Asked Sabean for big cash
A Benitez-like contract: the fans will be cryin’

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:31 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is a young catcher Pablito
The McCoven all think he is neato
He plays everywhere
Is a big teddy bear
And almost makes us forget about Zito

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 11:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stellar!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 11:42 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He’s 22 and he has something like 50 games above A ball. Have him catch for the Grizzlies for the first half of next season, then trade Bengie at midseason and hand Pablo the keys to the car. And worry about Posey later on.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:42 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Giving him a shot at 3B doesn’t preclude any of this from happening.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True. I don’t object to goofing around for the rest of this season and giving him time everywhere. But long-term, moving him to third would diminish both his offensive value and (probably) his defensive value.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If his bat really is special, I love the idea of giving him two extra defensive spots at which he can rest his knees. If the Giants get a Brent Mayne-type for backup catcher, then they could play Pablo 100 games at C, and 30 or 40 at 1B or 3B.

But you make good points. This post was a little Posey-centric without ever acknowledging it as such.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 11:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, this is a conservative organization. It’s hard to picture them deploying a player that way. And if his bat really is special, you could just put him at first full-time when Posey is ready. It actually makes more sense to me if his bat turns out not to be so special. It would be pretty cool to have a catcher/1b/3b super-utility guy.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s 170 games

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Including spring training?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those don’t count as games, stupid! Grant’s already bought is 2009 post-season tickets!

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But long-term, moving him to third would diminish both his offensive value and (probably) his defensive value.

I agree, but getting him in at 3B keeps his bat in the lineup so we get a more realistic idea of what we’ve got without having to pull Ishi out.

If Pablo works out and the team is unable to deal Benjie for value, we’re still better off than we were with what we saw before August 1st this season.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 11:53 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so we get a more realistic idea of what we’ve got

This seems to be the Giants’ MO with their young players these days, but it worries me, because so many of them are so far from being ready. If Pablo doesn’t work out in his audition this fall, what have we learned? Nothing, in my opinion, because there’s no real reason to expect him to be able to handle the majors yet.

This “drop them in the well and see whether they drown” approach seems to create a situation whereby it’s easier for the front office to make mistakes in its appraisal of its players.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 12:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Pablo doesn’t work out in his audition this fall, what have we learned?

I think we’ll have simply learned that he’s a big cuddly 22-year-old who needs more time in the monir leagues.

If his bat is already big league ready, then the team is smart to potentially be learning that now.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, we’ll have learned that Joe Crede might be our best bet to have a major league ready 3Bman next spring.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 25, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, but I want to watch Pablo play and Fresno’s games aren’t televised :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he can get regular innings at 3B, 1B, and C, he can save his legs and get a lot more ML AB’s next season. It would be neat to have your back up catcher mashing at 3B, then put in…say…Frandensen on a double switch, move Bengie out of the game, and have Pablo catch.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m trying to picture Bochy making a move like this … no, can’t do it.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:53 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, hopefully Bochy won’t be the manager for too much longer.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 25, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The last time the Giants fired a manager: 1985.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoah

Bowling for Soup flashback.

must…stop

58-72

Adopted Giant: Daryl Maday - The roller coaster ride continues - Augusta to Norwich to San Jose, the latter of which has been a success so far. 1.50 ERA.

by rhys on Aug 25, 2008 2:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, that version is a cover of an SR-71 song. It’s not even Bowling for Soup’s song!

Which is the kind of knowledge you get when you own 3 SR-71 albums, including an import.

This is also why I didn’t comment in xanthan’s Giant Music Thread.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 8:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but if some how there was a double switch involved he would be all over it

by CB30 on Aug 25, 2008 2:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, the main arguments are:

(a) more playing time in the short-term
(b) our options at third are, to put it delicately, limited
© if he works out there, it gives us a way to have him and Posey in the same lineup.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I HATE AUTOFORMATTING

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 11:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's as easy as

( a )
( b )
( c )

Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...

by tedfordfan on Aug 25, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I have to use numbers, the terrorists have won.

Also, I forget it does that.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 2:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Woodford Reserve is pretty good. I just picked up a new whiskey (new for me, anyways) called ‘Eagle Rare’ it’s 10 year bourbon, very nice. Probably my favorite bourbon right now.

I’m more of a scotch drinker, though.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haven’t tried that one. Will look around for it. I keep trying to become a scotch snob instead of a bourbon snob, but it just doesn’t take.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Scotch has grown on me and you’ve got to sample a lot of stuff to find what you like (ie: peatyness, smokiness, vanilla flavors, etc.).

What kind of bourbons do you drink? Makers Mark is always a favorite of mine.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Woodford and Basil Hayden, ideally. But I love Maker’s because even the diviest of bars have it these days.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 11:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the travelling Scotch classes that Johnnie Walker used to put on were awesome; maybe they still have them. It was there I learned that I prefer blends to single malt.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That sounds like a lot of fun, I’d love to go to a class on scotches.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I heard they have the classes on tape. Next time you’re in the store, ask if they have…wait for it…Scotch Tape.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Single Malt for me

And it’s usually McCallan or GlenMorangie.

Bourbon – I haven’t yet found one superior to Basil Hayden.

Irish Whiskey – Gotta go with the Jameson. Once I had a bottle that can apparently only be purchased at the factory. VERY good.

I think we need and Open Whisky Thread.

Pedro Feliz would look great in Dodger Blue.

by irwin on Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's all about Bakers

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 25, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like Bakers, but Booker’s is the best bourbon I’ve had. they’re both Jim Beam super premium brands, as is Knob Creek. God Bless the Beam distillery.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 11:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have you tried Bullit Bourbon? It’s really comparable to Knob Creek and lot less expensive. I dig it.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 11:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bullit is my favorite almost-premium brand. (I’d consider all the Maker’s/Knob-types to be almost-premium. The premiums are the single-barrel, aged 41,323 years, $60-$80 ones that I will never be able to afford a sample of.)

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, it’s entirely decent, and it comes in a cool Old West styled bottle.

+1

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which is handy if you’re in a saloon and a brawl breaks out.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I test tasted these

and Knob Creek is way smoother than Bullit. I was shocked because I had been looking for bullit for ages since I found it in PA.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Aug 25, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Knob is nicer, but Bullit is decent for the price.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haven’t tried Bullitt, but I will now.

Unfortunatly, I’m now hooked on Booker’s, which I am forced to blow $50 for a bottle of. I swear, it’s boozie liquid honey. The best.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed. Im not really into brown liquor, but WR is quite good. Has like a vanilla taste to it.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as long as he gets only two chances in two games like he has so far, it should work out fine. Unfortunately, there’s going to be days when he finds out why it’s called the hot corner. I think it’s a great idea, but I’ll be very happily surprised if it works out.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Aug 25, 2008 11:27 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Third base is meaningless...

Who’s the blond from the previous post?!!!

by Rusty the Robot on Aug 25, 2008 11:33 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Michelle McLauglin

Playmate, Miss February 2008

HUGE Giants fan from San Mateo

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 11:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

damn

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

She gets props for wearing the black & orange at Chavez Latrine:

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AWESOME

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can she play CF?

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

/in before Goofus makes up a different meaning for those initials

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can think of some words to go with F, but I just can’t think of a sexual word that starts with a C…

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then you just aren’t a cunning linguist.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can you guys grow up and keep it about baseball?

Man, I’d like to get to 3rd base with her!

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I approve of that cunning stunt!

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 25, 2008 2:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

She has her glove, doesn’t she?

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

….so to speak.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now that’s the true meaning of a Gamer!

by Rusty the Robot on Aug 25, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There’s something different about this picture than the ones I googled… but I can’t put my finger on it….

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe it was the lack of the Giants sweater perhaps?

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 12:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come to think of it, she was wearing a different looking shirt in the pictures I googled.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Flesh colored, I bet.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, it wasn’t nearly so cold weather appropriate.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Easy now. My personal litmus test: What if my boss walked in right now? If a picture gets me in trouble, then it goes.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What would your boss be doing in your mom’s basement anyway?

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 25, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, she DOES own the basement, doesn’t she???

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Basement or not, as long as he’s living under her roof, she’s the boss and she makes the rules.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you have any in Lites?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 1:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By boss, you mean your cat, right?

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you guys could have gotten together and made a combo cat/basement reference, than you would have had it.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WHOA!! I see what you mean.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There’s something different about this picture than the ones I googled… but I can’t put my finger on it….

You’d put your finger on it in a heartbeat if she’d let you

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that’s cuz your fingers weren’t on the picture…

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 25, 2008 4:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can't Google

I’m stuck on ogle

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Aug 25, 2008 5:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah, she’s just shopped

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not as often as Feliz of Castillo.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weird typo… but I’ll allow it.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

needs more boobs

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 25, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two is enough for most women, I think

Only 849 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 25, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Certainly enough for me, but I’m not a woman

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

once you have a chick with 3, you’ll never go back

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 25, 2008 12:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, and the ones with two on the front and two on the back sometimes are handy…

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Sandoval behind the plate..

and trade Bengie!

I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..

by lmaozedong on Aug 25, 2008 12:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can’t trade our leader in RBI’s!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HE’S THE TEAM MVP! YOU CAN’T TRADE THE TEAM MVP!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Team’s MVP over Bonds last year, according to Sabes.

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 12:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bengie has HEART*

.
.
.
.
*Problems because he’s fat. lol.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His heart is 67% bacon and 19% cooking lard.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

..but we can’t have 2 very rotund, very slow players clogging up the basepaths. Speed & defense!

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good, ’cause Pablo is not very slow!

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 12:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Give him time……he will be Molina-like in the speed department in no time.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Imagine when Angel and Pablo are manning the IF corners?

Heavy stuff to ponder.

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Aug 25, 2008 12:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s a weight on my mind.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Aug 25, 2008 12:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fat chance!

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would the baked goods on each base thing still work as a motivator?

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 25, 2008 1:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need to get a football helmet, a rod, some string, and a sandwich….

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would think it would be twice as affective.

Someone better get to bakin’ right now, for 2010.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once we’ve given him time, Molina will be out to pasture.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Aug 25, 2008 12:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

posey at third

i think posey projects to be a much better 3b than sandoval does. he’s much more athletic (read: less fat) and was a ss going into fsu.

by mikejlaz on Aug 25, 2008 12:11 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s a good question: What’s better Gold Glover at C & below-average at 3B, or average at C and above-average at 3B?

And, yeah, I’ve already given Posey a Gold Glove. He wins it the same year as his MVP (2010).

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ll see your optimistic “Gold Glove/MVP in 2010” and raise you a “Gold Glove/MVP in 2009 after a September call up!”

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Aug 25, 2008 12:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gold Glove/MVP/Oscar/Emmy award winning season in 2009, saves the American economy from ruin, takes over as President from John McCain (omg spoilers) and saves a family of ducks crossing the street by stopping an oncoming semi with the power of his mind.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 25, 2008 1:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I read something somewhere suggesting that the range of defensive performance is smaller for catchers than for other positions. So you’d be better off with a poor-fielding catcher and a great-fielding third baseman than the other way around.

by Evan on Aug 25, 2008 1:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ve read the same, mostly because catchers aren’t involved in many plays once the ball is batted into play. Some field bunts better than others, but that’s the only skill I’ve ever heard about that can vary greatly from catcher from catcher.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn’t blocking balls/passed balls and throwing out baserunners count as defensive skills that vary?

by chilibean_3 on Aug 25, 2008 1:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could include passed balls and throwing out baserunners, but the point is that catchers don’t have many chances to field the ball or impact a batted ball in play. That was my point, batted balls in play, throwing out runners and catching that ball don’t occur after a hitter has made contact.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll clean this up...
That was my point, batted balls in play, throwing out runners and catching that ball don’t occur after a hitter has made contact.

That was my point, batted balls in play, throwing out runners and catching the ball don’t occur after a hitter has made contact.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Point now understood.

by chilibean_3 on Aug 25, 2008 1:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They just don’t get many chances to field an actual baseball.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While a third baseman will get many more chances to field a batted ball.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unlike a catcher, which gets fewer chances

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to field a batted ball, that is.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 1:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES.

I’m a little scatterbrained today.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just funnin with ya

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You’re right. I missed the after contact part it seems.

by chilibean_3 on Aug 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What About Throwing Out Basestealers?

and what about calling pitches? I do not think the difference in skills required is a easy to understand as you suggest.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 1:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No study has ever shown that catchers have a tangible, measurable influence in the way that they call a game.

The Mike Matheny effect doesn’t exist.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

flagged, reported as groupthink

I encourage you all to do the same.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 25, 2008 1:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duh, because the effect is an intangible! INTANGIBLES WIN BALLGAMEZ

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 1:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Intangibles = Gamers!

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just Because Nobody Has Figured Out How To Measure It

doen not mean it doesn’t exist. I will grant you that it’s existance has not been proven. But smarter baseball men the you or me believe so I am inclined to believe as well.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 1:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But isn’t that worrying to you? You state that because it hasn’t been proved, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But then you say that because other “baseball men” believe in it’s importance, that you will too?

Isn’t that groupthink?

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 1:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Inclined To Believe

is not the same as not willing to consider the possibility of being wrong. It is the later that is group think.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 2:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It isn’t Groupthink to dismiss something that backed up by no evidence at all. It IS, in fact, Groupthink to say that “the baseball men believe in it, so I do too”. Pretty sure that’s the dictionary definition.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When The Evidence Is Not Conclusive

which is how I see this being, then opinion (or faith if you will) is all we have left to base our position on.

To me groupthink is not being open to ideas outside of a group. I don’t see how you can see my thinking in this light.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that the baseball men you are referring to are practicing the Groupthink. I am always open to new ways of thinking, but there has to be some sort of evidence to back it up. Otherwise, anything that anyone says could be accepted as true.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, it's......

…disagree with Rainman’s insane ideas = Groupthink

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Aug 25, 2008 3:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t you think that if a catcher had a huge effect on a pitcher’s ERA that it would be measurable? You can’t have it both ways. We measure how many runs pitchers give up, so if you say that Catcher A is much, much better at calling games, there should be a difference when Catcher B comes in, right?

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Understand This View And See It Has Merit

But I think the starting catcher effects how the game is called for the backups as well so that the difference between them and the backups without their influence becomes more difficult to measure. I have already admitted that I could be wrong on this. But as stated above I am more inclined to trust the feel of experienced baseball men then I am to trust the stats in this case. I am not saying I see the conventional wisdom of experienced baseball men as being without erro but rather that I have not yet been convienced that they are infact in error in this specific case.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about a platoon situation, or a situation where there isn’t an established starter? CERA isn’t different there, either.

by Grant on Aug 25, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Many Of These Platoons

invole an offensive catcher and a defensive catcher so I would expect the offensive catcher to take his lead from the defensive catcher. I acknowlege that many are also based on righty/lefty matchups but even here I would bet one is the accepted defensive leader more often then not and the other follows his lead.

Yes, I know that my way of thinking about this makes it hard for those of your point of view to “get me to see the light” as it seems I am not being open to your arguements. But, I assure you I am open. I am just not yet convinced and therefore I continue to base my views on my personal experiences from playing the game. It is after all simular experiences from the far more seasoned baseball minds I refered to above that have lead them to this conclusion as well.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What baseball minds are you referring to exactly? I guarantee that Theo Epstein, architect of two WS winning teams in the last 4 years, wouldn’t buy this stuff.

If you can’t provide us with actual evidence, at least provide us with quotes from people who are successful in the field of professional baseball.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

Theo probably would. They gave Veritek a huge contract when he was clearly in decline, and there were many rumors coming from Boston that they were going to sign Mike Matheny in 2005 if they didn’t resign Veritek.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But would either of those signings have had to do with “pitch-calling”?

I would think Matheny would have to do with preventing passed balls (it’s not like the Sox didn’t have a pitcher who might be threat to throw a few hard to handle pitches at the time…). And Veritek,,, well, I don’t really know enough about his current skillset to comment on that.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Word is that both those guys call(ed) great games, are leaders, etc.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I bet it was for Wakefield.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I probably just should have named him directly instead of dancing around it like a… dancing… guy….

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

like a dancing knuckleball?

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Varitek could hit, and remained a good hitter until last year.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And sometimes teams will sign a player because the hometown crowd loves that certain player. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but teams do it.

See: Brynes, Eric.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 25, 2008 2:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Veritek was a good hitter until 2006, since then he’s been fair to middlin’ at best.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2007 he had a 788 OPS as a catcher, and most of that came from a .367 OBP. That’s bloody good for a catcher.

by rotorueter on Aug 25, 2008 2:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

>I continue to base my views on my personal experiences from playing the game.

Which is why I was so careful to say that “at the major league level.”

The thing with these numbers is that they don’t suggest that the difference between game calling doesn’t exist. What they suggest is that, at the major league level, these differences are not significant enough to be worthwhile.

Whether it’s the result of the level of pitching in MLB being so good that it simply overcomes bad pitch-calling, or that the difference between the pitch-calling of the major league elite is so slim that a bad pitch-caller is nearly as good as a good pitch-caller, or that the hitters are so good in MLB that the difference between hitting a well called pitch and a poorly called pitch is negligible, or some combination of the three, everything points to differences in pitch calling at the major league level to be negligible.

At other levels, say the college level, this might clearly not be the case. There are meteoric differences in skill and knowledge at lower levels of competition, getting more and more meteoric the lower you go. But as you get closer to professional, Major League baseball, the numbers bear out that the difference between a well called game and a poorly called game, whether that difference is a difference of pitch-calling, pitching, hitting, or any combination of the three, just isnt big enough to matter.

Nobody should be saying that it doesn’t exist. But it really, almost overwhelmingly does not matter at that level.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Points

Plus, the pitcher can always shake off the catcher. I don’t know how that would figure into a research project like this, were anyone to take it on. I do think there are good and bad pitch callers, but Best Pitch Caller Ever can call for the perfect slider in the perfect count, the pitch is hung, and it’s a home run.

by tyrannoman on Aug 25, 2008 2:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Understand And Agree With This Point

which is why I hang my hat on not just my limited experiences at lower levels but also on the opinions of those with the highest level of experience. Yes, this could be a baseball myth that might of once been true but ain’t anymore. I am just not yet convienced that this is the case.

by giantsrainman on Aug 25, 2008 2:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The problem is that it wouldn’t be that difficult to measure. There’s tons of data on the performances of different pitchers pitching with different catchers (they’re called box-scores). Like, decades worth of data. Enough that any sample size issues would be negligible because the overall sample is so damn large.

So if something should be easy to prove if there is enough data to make a useful study, and that study doesn’t prove it… I mean… really.

If the numbers show that at the major league level the difference in performance for individual pitchers with different catchers is not marked in any significant way, based on an absolute ton of data, then what you’re left trying to prove is pretty much that among the negligible differences, there is variance.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 25, 2008 2:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do think that a genius catcher could function as a sort of coach, helping pitchers learn how to pitch over the long term, even though there might be no consistent & significant benefit from having that particular catcher behind the plate in any given game. But maybe I’ve just seen Bull Durham too many tim