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Argument for trading Matt Cain

To quote Billy Beane, “If you are going to rebuild you don’t just need good players, you need lots of good players.” The Giants problem is they have a few good players coming down the pipeline like Villalona and Posey, but a lot of them wont be in the big leagues until 2010 at the earliest, and even then it will take a couple years of playing time to get good production out of them. And when they do finally make the show there aren’t enough of them coming to fill all the holes the Giants have from years of mortgaging their future on ill-advised trades and keeping veterans with value (like Schmidt) even though the Giants had no hope of contending.

Star-divide

What the Giants really need to do to get better faster is trade Matt Cain.

Also, there are just WAY too many holes in the roster to fill via free agency (an outfield of average bats gets you no further then .500), and even if you bring in a free agent like Teixeira before you know what holes your system has, you risk blocking people like Villalona or hurting your ability to sign players like Lincecum long term in the future due to too much money tied up in Zito like contracts.

What the Giants need to do is get as many good young players as possible, and their best trading chip is Matt Cain. He’s got the potential to be a poor man’s ace or a really good #2 pitcher, his cheap long term contract give him added value and is being waisted on this rebuilding team, and the Giants would be dealing from a position of organizational strength with tons of good prospects like Alderson and Bumgarner waiting to take Cain's place.

When Beane traded Dan Haren, not only did he get a future ace in Brett Anderson, but get got two more middle of the rotation starters in Smith and Eveland, a future all-star center/right fielder in Carlos Gonzalez, one of the best power prospects in the minors in Chris Carter, and an Aaron Rowand clone in Cunningham.

That’s the kind of massive talent infusion the Giants need to their system if they want to compete in 2010, and the only guy with the kind of value to get that haul (and can be replaced with players already in the system) is Matt Cain.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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In before Matt Cain sucks

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That sounds naughty.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He’s a # 3 pitcher at best.

by Big Daddy J on Aug 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's hard to argue.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Aug 20, 2008 11:45 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can we start banning people for these inane, repetitive posts?

Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!

by BrianBokake on Aug 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He looks like an A's fan

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.

by sfgreg on Aug 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am, but I also folow the Giants

It was something I was talking to a friend of mine about. Sorry, I hadn’t noticed it had been beaten to death around here, I just wanted to see what people on this board thought about it.

No need to start banning people for taking an interest in your team, that’s how you loose fans.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Aug 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stating the obvious

The A’s are not the Giants though. The A’s are great for a couple of years and then suck for a couple of years. The Giants are in full rebuilding mode. The Gigantes are set on rebuilding for a couple of years, 08 and 09 and coming through with big years in the 2010-2020 years. In 2010 I thnk Cain is in the last arb year. By then you should have timmy, Madbum, Dirty, Alderson, and zito. You can trade Cain then if you need to.

by Big Daddy J on Aug 20, 2008 12:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry

If this fan post really adds nothing new to the conversation, I can just delete it if that would make the forum police feel better….

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Aug 20, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good point

the A’s have much tighter budgetary restrictions than the Giants do. Thus, the Giants can afford to supplement their rebuilding with some targeted free agent signings and don’t need to develop all 25 guys through the minors.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 20, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey even the “poor A’s” supplement their 40 & 25 man rosters this way.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Obviously

he thinks Gonzalez is a future All-Star and that Eveland and Smith are mid-rotation starters. Ha!

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Alright! It’s been way too long.

by chilibean_3 on Aug 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Im not in favor

of dealing matt, but in the event we do want to go this route. I think we would have to identify a farm system that has that sort of rich bounty of prospects that is in need of the pitching. I cant think of many teams off the top of my head that would give what ARIZONA gave up, or even have the talent in their system that Arizona gave up.

Cain is Able ...

by Norcalfan10 on Aug 20, 2008 11:47 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thank you. nicely put.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Atlanta

but they wouldn’t trade most of their top guys (i.e. Heyward, Schaefer, Gorkys Hernandez, Jones, Teheran, Hanson, Rohrbrough, Jeff Locke or Lillibridge)

or would they?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Aug 20, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Frankly I view Atl farm with a bit a suspicion. Kind like Giants farm Pitchers circa 2000 was buy others. I would not rule out talking with them just the recent track record of position players along with a new Gm is kind got me skeptical of them and what they would trade.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

value and is being waisted on this rebuilding team, and the Giants would be dealing from a position of organizational strength with tons of good prospects like Alderson and Bumgarner waiting to take Cain’s place.

I think our depth is overstated, Bumgarner and Alderson are fantastic prospects but 2-3 levels away from the majors.

That way I see it is that the Giants are set with Cain and Lincecum. Sanchez could be very good if his shoulder is fine, which it sounds like it’s a minor injury at this point. Zito will not add any stability to the rotation. Correia is having problems and I was never high on him to start with. Lowry might never pitch again. Hennessey? Palmer? Misch?

I’m not seeing the depth. Our staff is above average this year, but we don’t have the spare pieces in my opinion to trade parts of it, yet.

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also recent did a post on my site about valuing the starters, for those that don’t read BCB, here’s what I came up with.

Cain is valued at around $15M right now. Even with his pay bump next year, going to $2.3M I believe, if he remains around a 3-win pitcher, he’s really valuable. The Giants could trade him, but they’d want to get similar value in return and with my concerns about pitching depth, I lean towards no right now. But I’m willing to listen to other opinions.

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s the kind of massive talent infusion the Giants need to their system if they want to compete in 2010, and the only guy with the kind of value to get that haul (and can be replaced with players already in the system) is Matt Cain.

And, the Giants have nobody to replace Cain (a 3-win pitcher) with. No body. I might disagree with that statement the most.

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2008 12:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When you put it in chart form, that Zito contract is even more of a kick in the shorts.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, say hello to paying a replacement level pitcher $14.5M ($18.5M next year).

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2008 12:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know what? I’m going to be the first to say it, and I don’t care, but I’m really not a fan of that contract. It was really made with poor foresight.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 20, 2008 12:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know what’s even more amazing? That the Giants might have the best (+$24.4M) and worst (-$14.17M) values in baseball on the same roster in Lincecum and Zito.

That’s almost impressive.

by xanthan on Aug 20, 2008 12:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well we also have the greatest FA signing in baseball history (Bonds in Dec of 92) and the worst FA signing in baseball history in Dec of 06 thanks to Zito.

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GROUPTHINK GROUPTHINK

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 12:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grope stink?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WAR!

What is it good for?

No, really. What is it?

by cheno on Aug 20, 2008 2:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WAR

better than WARP

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/how_to_calculate_war/

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Aug 20, 2008 2:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It ain't nothin' but a heart-breaker

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500

by S.F. Giangst on Aug 21, 2008 6:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GOOD GOD

y’all

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Aug 21, 2008 12:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is a bold, outside-the-box idea and I’m very disappointed that no one has brought it up until now.

by Evan on Aug 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He does have an accurate rifle for an arm, though it is not a cannon.

by rotorueter on Aug 20, 2008 12:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this

is why there’s a box.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 12:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hes athletic. played with steve nash at santa cla…… head explodes

Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!

by BrianBokake on Aug 20, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i've thought of it....

but i didn’t wanna get my mom’s basement burned down

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Aug 20, 2008 2:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it's a basement...

…wouldn’t it burn up rather than down?

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 20, 2008 2:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

at least spell “argument” correctly.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 20, 2008 12:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Any player is avaliable for the right offer

It just needs to be an incredible offer. Really, unbelievably incredible

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2008 12:14 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, J.J. Hardy, and Bob Uecker?

by tyrannoman on Aug 20, 2008 1:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uecker and Kuip in the same booth, that would be awesome!

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:07 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And to sweeten the deal, we’ll send FP Santangelo along with Cain.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 20, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And a Papa to be named later?

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2008 2:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it later enough to say Greg?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 2:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m all for any returen the Giants’ can get for Papa.

I guess someone has to make the cheesey booth joke with Uecker and Kuiper, but I’m not gonna be the one to do it.

by tyrannoman on Aug 21, 2008 7:38 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cain's value

I don’t think it has peaked yet. I’d wait until he gets a bit closer to free agency before even entertaining a trade. Any trade of Cain would have to return an uber stud player.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 20, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stop already...

with this trade Cain talk. Yes you have every right to write what you want and I don’t have to read these inane comments and suggestions, but I was under the assumption that when one posts a comment they have some knowledge of the sport, in this case baseball. There are some who already are suggesting that the FO can trade Pablo and he hasn’t even been here but for a few at bats. And who are they going to trade him for…blah blah blah…
good god people get a life!

by Buzzword on Aug 20, 2008 12:22 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see my job here is done.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 12:32 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, he stated he is finally willing to make some deals this winter

by wilriv21 on Aug 20, 2008 1:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gotcha. I was expecting a “wheeling and dealing” quote, and all confused.

I don’t know why Sabes has to make a trade, now, though. Winn is going to pitch and play 3B utilizing his accurate rifle arm.

by tyrannoman on Aug 20, 2008 1:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beane would trade Lincecum before Cain

see the Dan Haren and Tim Hudson trades as examples. He trades his best pitchers that command the most/best prospects. So why are we even talk about a Cain trade, we should talk about a Lincecum trade. Think about all the prospects we could get for Timmy…

by the way, i would never trade either

by cumball on Aug 20, 2008 1:15 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's with all the balls?

I saw a cornball earlier, and now you- sheesh!

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Aug 20, 2008 1:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As explained here

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 20, 2008 1:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And a seriously niche version of paintball.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd imagine that it was a small niche

Only 850 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 20, 2008 3:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Small, but devoted.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DON'T MAKE ME HATE YOU

oh, and watch out for sharksrog

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Aug 20, 2008 2:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s an idea that has legs, but this is Brian Sabean we’re talking about. I wouldn’t trust him to move Cain in a shrewd deal further than I can throw a truck.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2008 1:45 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t even trust him to move Cain in a shrew deal, which is originally how i read that.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 1:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When Sabean tried to acquire hamsters for his kids, he ended up with a starved wolverine.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2008 1:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish Sabean was my dad

I’d much rather have a wolverine than some stupid hampster.

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he might be. sometimes he just says fuck work and parties. you might be here because of that.

Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!

by BrianBokake on Aug 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is true. When the Giants played in Boston last year he bought my friend and her brother drinks at some bar.

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Before or after it eats your face?

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would train it to eat other people’s faces. Like say Barry Zito’s. If it attacks Randy Johnson’s face I wonder if that would actually be an improvement? It could be like a new version of that reality show, The Swan.

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

greatest post ever?

i’m going with yes

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 3:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i like dramatic hamsters better.

Play Stonehenge!!!

by The Enchanter on Aug 20, 2008 8:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what are you talking about?

we could move Cain + prospects and get Alex Rios!!!!

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 20, 2008 2:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

alex rios humor is still unfunny to me. wayyy to close to a possible (and horrible) reality

Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!

by BrianBokake on Aug 20, 2008 2:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trade packets

Seems the most sensible thing to do is to put Cain, Sanchez, Madbum, and Alderson all out on the market and see what the best offer is for any of them. It should be all about the trade balance. I think it’s silly to limit yourself to a single player to offer if you sit down with another GM.

"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

by achiappanza on Aug 20, 2008 2:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s actually a bad idea. As soon as you announce your putting a guy on the trade market I think it diminishes their value. Especially if they are extremely valuable entities. Ideally you should have people coming to you asking you if you’d be interested in trading your assets. You don’t take your assets to the trash heap and say hey what can I get if I recycle these here?

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 2:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

potentially diminishes

If there is heavy interest in Cain (as there very well should be) from multiple teams that is one way to drive up the price. You just need to be coy with how you put them on the market

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2008 2:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Be coy

Yeah, I think trade value only diminishes when you’re determined to trade someone. If you’re just running it up the flagpole and don’t have to trade, you can get the kind of bounty that Beane’s been getting recently.

Granted, prospect blockbusters are rare, and Sabean may well not be the guy to do it, but we all know big minor league names we’d trade one of ours for. Let’s face it, the Giants need to get some long-term sticks somehow.

"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

by achiappanza on Aug 20, 2008 9:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what you say

“No one is untouchable. Any of our players can be wrought… with the right price.”

But more eloquently

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Aug 20, 2008 2:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok then what Gm is going to offer even half value in developed talent on talented A ball pitcher?
so that rules out Madbum & Alderson.

If you move Cain, Tim or ( to a lesser degree) Sanchez who takes their spot on the 25 man?

Thirdly when was the last time Sabean traded for a prospect? Not just a prospect of even the deal out but as a major part of the trade?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when he traded Ray.....

hahhahaha….

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Aug 20, 2008 2:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or Sweeny?

Don’t get me wrong I like Travis D. Just don’t try and tell me he was aquired with the firm idea he would be manning and holding second base for several years at a good level. And frankly thats the kind of commitment a Gm would need to make the type of trade offerred above.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Aug 20, 2008 2:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And when he traded Morris...

…for hot prospect Rajheeheehee
…for Rajaisnicker
…okay, I can’t keep a straight face.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Aug 20, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have only read the title so far

Booooooo!!!!!

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Aug 20, 2008 2:20 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wrong time

In many ways. The pendulum has swung to GMs now overvaluing prospects. As I think you might be overvaluing the prospects received in the Haren trade. Not all those prospects will reach their potential. Look at how the Yankees wouldn’t trade Hughes or Kennedy for Johann Santana. The Haren trade seems like an exception to the trend in MLB right now. And as Nostocks points out, the value of Cain is still on the way up.

I am not totally against trading Cain, but I would want someone like a Hanley Ramirez for him, and I just don’t see something like that happening.

by marklar on Aug 20, 2008 3:24 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Haren trade still looks good to me

Gonzalez and Anderson are pretty good prospects and Smith and Eveland (although the latter ended poorly) looked like they could be productive in the bigs this year.

That being said, I’d want a 3rd Gonzalez/Anderson type prospect added before I thought about moving Cain, which really shouldn’t happen anyway

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2008 3:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here's what BA said about Anderson

“… profiles as a middle-of-the-rotation innings-eater.” I wouldn’t trade Haren where one of the major pieces is potentially a middle of rotation guy.

And Gonzalez, he was a 21 year old in AA, which is young-ish, but it was not like he dominated there, hitting .806 OPS there. Don’t know how Southern League compares to Eastern League but Bowker .886 in the EL and he barely made the Top 10 in OPS, if I remember right.

OK, MiLB Splits calculates this as his MLE for 2007 and 2008:

2007: .236/.282/.365/.647
2008: .248/.309/.348/.657

Which shows that Gonzalez probably has a lot of work to do before he becomes ready for the majors, unless he is one of those who get a lift when they make the majors because they were kind of slacking previously.

Just because these guys were Arizona’s best prospects don’t mean diddly because their best had already moved up quickly (Drew and Upton) and somebody has to make their Top 10 (much like the Giants during the 1990’s and early 2000’s until Cain made the scene).

This trade seems more and more like when the A’s traded Vida Blue to us for a pocketful of prospects/youngsters who weren’t really that good but at least he got a huge haul for Blue. Except that Haren, I think, was better, or at least on a better career trajectory, at the time of the trade than Blue was.

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Aug 20, 2008 4:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anderson’s year in A+ this year: 9.73 K/9 to 2.19 BB/9 (4.44 K/BB)
at AA: 10.44 K/9 to 2.88 BB/9 (3.63 K/BB)

All at age 20 and left handed. He is 18 months older than Bumgarner and those numbers are probably where Bumgarner will be in two years. In fact, if Bumgarner is putting up those numbers in AA by 2010 I think we will all be quite happy and singing his praises.

You’re kidding yourself if you downplay Anderson, who looks to have an extremely bright future.

Carlos Gonzalez might be a tad overrated, but he’s always been very young for his levels and BA must like him enough if they deemed him worthy of a coverspot. Let’s also not discount defense, where from what I’ve heard Gonzalez is quite special

www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)

by NeifiChicken on Aug 20, 2008 4:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes but

Many question whether Gonzalez has a desire to play baseball. He supposedly has a very poor work ethic. I think it’s unlikely he ever comes close to his ceiling.

I agree he is downplaying Anderson, but Anderson is seen as a very safe prospect, much like Alderson in that he was very advanced coming out of High School. I think it’s possible he becomes an ace, but its more likely he is a #3 or #2 starter. Which obviously is still very good. Than again Danny Haren pretty much exceeded expectations as a mid-rotation guy and has become an ace.

by Hobbes2d on Aug 20, 2008 10:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hanley Ramirez got the same complaints in the minors wrt work ethic

That one turned out alright I think.

Also its only half as many innings as other CF this year but Gonzalez’s RZR would lead all CF.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's

by iamawesomer on Aug 21, 2008 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow, you disappoint me! The only reason I clicked on this thread was to see where it got hijacked to.

by Merope on Aug 20, 2008 3:28 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Favorite classic arcade game?

Cutest animal?

Favorite Internet meme?

Best (worst) roommate story?

Last time you threw up?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 3:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Centipede

Sea otters (“I swim on my back and do cute little human things with my hands!”)

LOL Cats simply rule everything.

Does my grandmother’s stuff count as roommate stories?

Last time I vomited it was pretty epic. I flew Southwest from SFO to Phoenix last November to cover some Arizona Fall League games. I’m the sort of person who obsesses over things like schedules and itineraries and that to make sure I have all my times and dates and rules down cold. So when I arrived at the gate, stressed, dead-assed tired, and juggling a laptop, backpack, and venti (very hot) latte and saw that our flight was making a stop in San Diego, I was pissed. I get bad motion sickness on takeoffs and landings (as TK can attest to) so adding an unannounced stop to my flight meant more chances for me to hurl.

So I yelled at the clerk lady thing at the counter and she insisted all passengers were told of this DESPITE IT NOT SAYING THAT ON THE TRAVEL ITINERARY I PRINTED OUT THAT MORNING BEFORE I LEFT. After a while I said fuck it, whatever, took a handful of Dramamine, and stewed on the flight down to the desert.

On the way back, they pulled the San Diego shit again! This time I was so angry I just found the nearest lounge to my gate and pounded double shot vodkas…four double shots later I wobbled over to the gate to board the plane, and I was giddy. Very very giddy. After we took off I was barfy. Very very barfy. I puked in the lavatory sink, which was especially foul because of all the half-digested vodka in there.

Stewardess was nice though. She brought me a ginger ale to settle my stomach and kept asking me if I was okay.

Then the bastard airline lost my luggage on the connecting flight. Good god. If I didn’t have such a kickass time in Arizona I would classify it as the worst trip ever.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2008 4:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, it was more like “blarblehurfff…”

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2008 4:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I take it you’re not an afficionado of the game of cumball.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 3:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t know what this game is, but I’m pretty sure I’m not going to like it.

by chilibean_3 on Aug 20, 2008 4:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not part of the niche, I see

Only 850 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Aug 20, 2008 4:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No trades!!

I don’t fucking follow these guys every night in the minor leagues for years to see them traded off to another team. I also think the Giants have enough on the present roster and in the minors to field a contending team in a couple of years. No trades necessary. Possibly a couple of FA signings, but trading away our kids is not only depressing, but something we shouldn’t even consider.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2008 7:08 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who hears that WAH-mbulance coming?

Play Stonehenge!!!

by The Enchanter on Aug 20, 2008 8:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MATT CAIN SHOULD BE TRADED!!!!!

HE CAN’T EVEN WIN A GAME WHEN HE LEAVES WITH A WIN!!! HE SUCKS!!!!!! HE NEEDS TO BE PUT ON TEH TRADINGBLCOK RIGHT NOW!!!!!

by tyrannoman on Aug 21, 2008 1:14 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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