OT Outsidelands Festival Who all is going? I've been pretty excited for this since it was...

I am going Friday and Sunday

Missing Saturday to go to the Giants game re: a Bachelor Party.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 7:16 AM PDT 0 recs

I wanted to go, mostly for Radiohead, but alas, it was not to be. :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 20, 2008 7:43 AM PDT 0 recs

would love to see Radiohead (for the 5th time), Felice Brothers, Bon Iver, and many others.

won’t be going though.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 20, 2008 8:05 AM PDT 0 recs

Jack Johnson headlining over Wilco = shit that’s fuck

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 8:47 AM PDT 0 recs

I'm sorry

But Wilco fucking sucks. I saw them at the BSB a few years ago and they were lame and uninspired.

This Wilco love people have is a personal pet peeve of mine, they are a shitty band.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up 0 recs

Have you ever played music at any level? I mean, not just singing “Kumbaya” with your buddies around the campfire, but really played music seriously? All bands have off nights, and to judge call them “a shitty band” on the basis of one show is ludicrous.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

Actually, I've played in a mildly successful local band for the past 4 years.

So, yes :) We are on Itunes if you are actually interested…

I’ve also heard their recordings and they didn’t change my opinion.

Also in this category: Modest Mouse.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up 0 recs

I can't stand Modest Mouse

But that doesn’t mean they’re shitty.

Tweedy has written some absolutely breathtakingly beautiful music, and Nels Cline is one of the greatest guitarists of his generation. But if you’d rather listen to Widespread Panic, that’s certainly your prerogative.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up 0 recs

I find Panic pretty good

They have their moments. I’ve never seen them live before which is my primary motivation… maybe my opinion will change.

I’ve got a few friends are are retarded about Wilco, and I just don’t see it. I feel like I am pretty objective when It comes to music – I can say positive things about bands even if I don’t like them.

Maybe I will have to give Wilco another try, but what I have heard of them has been boring and cliche. At BSB they were just disjointed and bad, but I do agree with you that one bad show does not a bad band make (but it certainly doesn’t give a good first impression).

The biggest problem with Modest Mouse is that their vocalist cannot sing. I have heard numerous live recordings of them and the guy is off-key as fuck. I suspect a large dose of pitch corrector went into their recordings.

You and I both know that with sufficient use of the pitch-bitch and unlimited takes, nearly anyone can make a decent vocal recording… even me.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up 0 recs

thats really surprising that they were disjointed, one of my favorite things about them is how solid they are. with you on modest mouse for sure

Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!

by BrianBokake on Aug 20, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well, solid in the studio != solid live

I’ve only seen them the one time, so maybe they were just off, but certainly it is much harder to be solid live than in the studio.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up 0 recs

I should also mention that I cannot stand the white stripes live

recorded, they are solid – and I understand why people rave about them (altho I’m not as huge of a fan of Jack White as many are).

However, live – they suck nutsack. Their music sans bass is empty and hollow sounding, lacking any energy or life. Their studio tracks wisely include a bass track which brings it all together – but live guitar + drums sounds like 2/3 of a band.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

I also dislike Ben Harper

The epitome of boring and self indulgent.

I’m sure many others would describe it as “breathtakingly beautiful”

Also, anyone who routinely plays in alternate tunings gets an automatic -1 from me.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up 0 recs

on-key vocals and standard tuning are overrated.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, think outside the box, right?

People need to demonstrate that they are sufficiently limited by the “box” in order to justify stepping outside of it.

Ben Harper has not done this – as such, EADGBE works just fine. Tuning your guitar differently just to be different is retarded.

Same for the goo goo dolls.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up 0 recs

People need to demonstrate that they are sufficiently limited by the "box" in order to justify stepping outside of it.

Could not disagree more strongly.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well clearly that's a personal opinion

But people who do “outside of the box things” that others can do while still remaining in the box, IMO, look dumb.

Like when a guy changes tunings to write a song, but then I can play it back in standard tuning.

Not that I am any great guitar player, but that kinda stuff just makes me think it is being different for the sake of being different, which is inherently lame.

I also dislike Capo’s ;) If you want to change key – play a different voicing. Using a capo is cheating (and stupid, 90% of the time)

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

Capos + Alternate tunings = my favorite way to shed writer’s block.

Like when a guy changes tunings to write a song, but then I can play it back in standard tuning.

When I tune to open G and fingerpick my little brains out, there is absolutely no way to recreate it in standard tuning. Try to play “Little Martha”, for example, in standard tuning.

I also dislike Capo’s ;) If you want to change key – play a different voicing. Using a capo is cheating (and stupid, 90% of the time)

There are a ton of different ways to play a D chord in standard tuning — you could barre it, power chord, standard, moving a C-style chord up to the fifth fret, etc… — but they all have their little differences. Different voicings make for substantial differences in how a song sounds.

by Grant on Aug 20, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

+ eleventy billion

John Fahey is god.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 20, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

Now we are getting into an idealogical debate

There certainly are people and situations for which an alternate tuning or capo is appropriate, maybe I overstated my point. Keller Williams, for example – that guy plays in all sorts of fucked up tunings and frankly, he owns them.

However, mostly what I see is people who take a standard progression (G-D-C) and then put a capo on the 3rd fret and act like they’ve created something new and great. (or tune a guitar open and then just barr up and down the fretboard – hey look ma’, I can play the gee-tar! )

That I find stupid. Ben Harper clearly plays in alternate tunings because he plays slide primarily and that is what makes it easiest for him to do what he does – but I do find it slightly annoying – that is just a personal preference, as he could re-create what he does generally by playing in standard tuning.

ex: George Thurogood. Tunes his gutiar open and uses a slide to get his characteristic sound. IMO, it’s pretty lame because, as a result, all of his songs sound exactly the damn same. What he does anyone could do after playing guitar for 6 months – put the slide on the correct fret and hit any random combo of strings… guaranteed to be in key! If you aren’t on the right fret, just slide up or down to it and you sound like you did it on purpose.

It sounds good, for one song, but it’s fundamentally kinda retarded (like drop D tuning). It’s a shortcut.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

Nothing wrong with shortcuts. In the end, all that matters is the sound that comes out. Makes no difference how you get there.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up 0 recs

Idealogical differences!

I, for example, prefer not to have computers play my instruments for me.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up 0 recs

I listen to music for the notes, not as part of some sort of dexterity exhibition. If you don’t like how computers sound, I totally understand. I had a thing against drum machines for a long time, though I don’t anymore.

But all that matters is the music, man. (That works better if you say it in a stereotypical burnout voice…)

by Grant on Aug 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

I understand what you are saying

But I am somewhat of a purist, if there is such a thing.

I like to be able to hand someone an acoustic guitar, and have them play their song.

If they can’t do it ‘cause they don’t have all of their fancy equipment/capo/alternate tunings, etc – I think that’s pretty lame. Maybe they use a capo when they record because they like the particular sound, etc – but you should be able to perform your song reasonably on a standard acoustic guitar. If you can’t, it makes me wonder…

The main reason I have so much respect for JJ is because of the following: A friend of mine works at a local radio station (which shall remain nameless) and JJ came in to do some promo stuff. My friend recorded him and sent me the recordings.

This was Jack in a room with a guitar and a mic – nothing else. No re-takes, no fancy electronics, no performance aids. The guy sounded absolutely fucking flawless. His articulation was perfect, his vocal tone spot on, everything – sounded as clear and warm and perfect as any of his albums.

You might not like his music, and that is fine – but the guy is an absolutely flawless musician, who can take the most simple of equipment (an acoustic guitar and his voice) and create absolute beauty. I respect that, a lot. I respect anyone who can do that. Dave Matthews is another (as is Regina Spektor, she is awesome!)

I can understand using technology as an enhancement, but far too many musicians use it as a crutch and cannot get by without it.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 21, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up 0 recs

Count me in the minority of indie hipsters who can appreciate Jack Johnson. I’ve always loved “Rodeo Clowns”, and he definitely has his own voice. I can’t listen to more than two songs of his at a time, but I don’t mind him at all.

I can understand using technology as an enhancement, but far too many musicians use it as a crutch and cannot get by without it.

I’m all about the sound that comes out. I can appreciate technical skill, but it ranks somewhere just above wardrobe for reasons to listen to something. I don’t play electric guitar and I don’t futz around with synths/ProTools etc…, so I can definitely hold my own in a room with just a guitar. But I’d still rather listen to Aphex Twin than myself.

by Grant on Aug 21, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up 0 recs

I’m all about the sound that comes out.

Sure, but at some point the line begins to blur about what the origin of that sound is.

If enough sampling + computers + pitch correctors + etc are involved, pretty soon the music becomes faceless and overproduced. Anyone can sound like a superstar with enough technology. (shit, just watch these reality shows… )

I don’t remember who it was, but I went to watch a show not too long ago that featured a “popular” female vocalist. At first, I thought she sounded really good – I was impressed at the quality of her live sound.

Then I realized that she was singing along with a pre-recorded track that included backup vocals and an accompanying male lead vocal.

That isn’t musical performance, that’s Karaoke. In my opinion, that is lame. I guarantee that she couldn’t step up unrehearsed with a mic and a pianist in a bar and sing anything worth a shit.

So where do you draw the line? Would you go to a show were all they did was play the CD and dance on stage? Would that qualify as a “good band”? I wouldn’t think so.

Maybe I’m a dick, but I don’t like that kinda stuff – and I don’t like things that get too close to that. I use my fair share of effects, but for the most part the music I create comes from my fingers to your ears unaltered. I don’t use anything that changes my sound so as that it would be unrecognizable. I can pick up any guitar in any circumstance and play what I like to play. Sure, maybe I alter the approach when I’m playing some rinky dink guitar at a friends house as opposed to shreaking out through my tubescreamer at some show, but overall I can capture the same general vibe, the same feel, regardless of what equipment is available.

That’s important to me – I never want to be someone who can’t perform because I don’t have some toy or trick available. I respect other musicians who share that approach, and I guess I don’t have as much interest in music created in a less organic fashion.

Organic really is a good word to describe it.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 21, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

since when the fuck is tuning the guitar considered fancy?
not everyone’s voice is geared to have E as the lowest note available.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 21, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

haha

From the picture i’ve seen of you, I’m not surprised you would be a fan of drop tuning :)

Dropping a string or something along those lines is not a big deal.

However, playing in open tunings, etc really limits your versatility.

“yeah, I’ll play it – hold on lemme just re tune this guitar for 5 minutes” doesn’t go over too well when your hanging out w/ your buddies.

It’s just personal opinion.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 21, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Wha?

Alternate tunings don’t limit you any more than “standard” tuning does.

Instruments are just tools. You approach the guitar one way, and Thurston Moore does it another way (or 37 different ways). Neither one is any more or less valid or limiting or whatever.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 21, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

I feel that it is limiting in a social situation

Say, at a jam session you hop on to play with the band – but you aren’t familiar with the tuning they are using. As they are launching into their song are you gonna re-tune the guitar real fast? (and if you did, I would sure be pissed when you gave it back to me and it’s in some fucked up tuning)

Or, a couple of guys are screwing around on the beach and your buddy Joe says “hey, i’ve got this song I want to play for you guys” – so you hand him the guitar you brought and he then proceeds to fuck around for 5 minutes trying to get it in some alternate tuning.

And then you have to fuck around with it again when he hands it back so you can play whatever you were going to play.

I guess it’s not a big deal for some people, but it bugs the shit out of me. It’s one thing if you are Tim Reynolds and your creative genius has allowed you to produce a sound in some alternate tuning that could not be captured in standard tuning and thus, you have no choice. I get that.

But more often than not, it’s just some frat guy who figured out if he tuned his guitar different it sounded “cool” and he can strum the only 5 fingerings he knows but not have it sound like his other frat friends.

It’s kinda like playing guitar left handed – In many ways the guitar is a social instrument and it is a major drag to go places where people are playing but not be able to join ‘cause you didn’t bring your own “special” guitar.

I guess if you only ever play in your bedroom or the recording studio it’s not a big deal, but for me one of the most enjoyable parts of playing music is being able to do it with friends and random people you meet. I like being able to walk into a coffee shop with some dudes playing and sit in with them (using their stuff) etc. I’ve had some my most enjoyable musical experiences this way, and if I did the majority of my playing in some alternate tuning or other configuration, that would not have been possible.

Besides, if you play live (which I know you do) You can’t be switching between tunings each song, so you’ve either got to have 3-4 guitars each tuned differently, or you’ve got to write all your songs in the same alternate tuning, which kinda defeats the point of using an alternate tuning in the first place (to get a specific sound).

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 21, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

jesus, it didn't look so long when I was typing it.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 21, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

I guess if you only ever play in your bedroom or the recording studio it’s not a big deal

Bingo. That describes my 17-year guitar career, except for the studio part. I’m the greatest songwriter ever, but none of you WILL EVER KNOW.

/not the greatest songwriter ever

by Grant on Aug 21, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

Now we know!

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Aug 21, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

GOD THESE COMMENTS ARE SO SMALL

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Aug 22, 2008 5:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

/even worse songwriter

I’m good at criticizing other peoples songs, however!

Maybe I should be a producer.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 22, 2008 8:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

I DON'T PLAY IN DROP TUNING.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 21, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

long hair + heavy music

does not equal drop tuning.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 21, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

WTF actually plays a tenor guitar

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 21, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

the Pavaratti model.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 22, 2008 7:41 AM PDT up 0 recs

Pavarotti too.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 22, 2008 7:42 AM PDT up 0 recs

I didn't say you played in it

Just that you might be a fan of it.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 22, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

just to clarify. Drop tuning didn’t start out as a nu metal thing. It was a folk tuning. I’m of the opinion that playing one finger bar chords is as lame as it gets. I like drop tuning in stuff like Cortez the Killer or Albuquerque or a ton of other Neil Young songs that use drop tuning to change the lowest register on the guitar to a D instead of E. I love fingerpicking in open tunings. Getting a alternating bass line going with a higher melody in standard tuning is pretty difficult, but obviously can be done as Fahey did some early material that way. I just think the opposite of you I guess, standard tuning is more limited than the endless possibilities of alternate tunings. But in the end, the only limitations of music are the ones you let your mind impose on you.

ok, I’m done with this thread. Enjoy this show people who are going.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 22, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up 0 recs

re. drop D

is that the

Red House Painters guy?

/forgoes google search

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 22, 2008 9:33 AM PDT up 0 recs

yep

love that dude.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 22, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up 0 recs

dammit

I said I was done here. quit making me come back!

haha.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 22, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

we should start a new thread about alternate tunings.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 22, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up 0 recs

in the key of D

drop D is not a shortcut. it’s just better.

see: Young, Neil

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 20, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up 0 recs

drop A# > drop D

just sayin’

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

7 STRING IBANEZ FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Aug 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

WTF

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

I can't stop

“breathtakingly beautiful” is entirely subjective, so I can understand why we would disagree here.

As far as Cline, I probably don’t have a large enough sample in mind to judge his guitar prowess. However, having a great guitar player doesn’t necessarily make your band or music interesting.

I’ve seen plenty of bands that had amazing musicians perform boring and uninspired (altho perhaps technically difficult) music. Wish I could think of a good example right now (I tend to block out the bad ones).

I could talk about this all goddamn day… lol

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Aug 20, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up 0 recs