Pablito..
by NorCalGiant on Aug 18, 2008 4:33 PM PDT
87 comments
Looks very good for this young man...I was looking into putting him on my 12 team mixed 25 man keeper league team and translated all his AA stats into a 163 game MLE (hey, it's possible...).
654 AB
.287/.312/.452
22HR, 36 2B, 3 3B, 84 R, 107 RBI
21/81 BB/K, 13% K
Those are pretty solid #'s, almost certainly ROY consideration type #'s. Just another great addition to look forward to with our SF Giants.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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small sample size. not enough ABs in AA to run any kind of reliable projections.
that said, I love the guy and think he can be a star.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 18, 2008 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's obviously catching our attention
but I still have my doubts. Keep him in AAA next year and let’s see what we have. If he does it again next year in AAA, I am officially on board to the Pablo bandwagon.
Then we could play him at catcher late 09 and all thru 2010, then trade him to another team at absurdly high value to make room for Posey.
Just think of the value a 24 year old catcher, 5 years from FA that hits .290/.325/.475 with 20 HR’s…We could definitely get an elite young hitting prospect at a more need based position for that
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 18, 2008 4:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or we can just keep him. There is no guarantee that Ishikawa or Villalona will be ML 1B. If Pablo really is legit, it would be stupid to trade him just to make room for Posey. Hopefully these kids all do pan out and someone or more than one will have to get dealt, but that would be a great problem to have to say the least.
by Hobbes2d on Aug 18, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed! Plus there’s something inherently cool about your backup catcher being your starting first baseman.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 18, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
open up a roster spot
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Aug 18, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it bugs me when people say to trade our stud prospects, even when they might be right. I follow these guys for years and when they finally make it, the last thing I want is for them to be traded elsewhere.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Aug 18, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one ticket please!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 18, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pablo @ 1B = kills his value
Assuming he continues his success and it translates to the bigs, Pablo is only an above average player at Catcher. He has the type of bat to make him an all-star caliber catcher actually which has great market value.
However, at 1B Pablo simply becomes average. Even if he hits .300/.330/.475 where does that put him on the 1B scale? Right around Mike Jacobs?
If Pablo can p[rove himself at AAA in 09 and have a great 2010 as a mlb starter, we could probably trade him for a very good blocked 1B from another organization.
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would still be better OBP then Jacobs. And it would be real hard to be as poor with the glove as Jacobs.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 19, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, but still...
Being better than Mike Jacobs is hardly a worthy accomplishment. There are probably 20 1B’s that can make that claim. We want a guy who can compare with Adrian Gonzalez
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree being better then Jacobs is nothing to hang your hat on. But it is also a bit of damning with faint praise. It would have to be far above average first baseman of comparable age for me to bite.
Things not taken into account is by retaining Pablo ( in this scenario):
1)You slump proof 2 positions.
2)You extend the productive window of two catchers. ( This means you don’t have to go back to replacing them as fast and your window for a favorable trade gets much larger).
3) MLB average over all game from a 25 year old is no faint praise in my book.
4) roster flexibility. On so many teams your back up catcher is a black hole. Possibly usable as a productive pinch hitter- some times – but other wise they basically are a temporary spare for when the main catcher develops a flat. Why settle for that level of production?
In the NL west were a road trip could be 10 games in Coors, Houston and Cincy with no days off this can’t be over stated. Or say Coors, Philly, Milwaukee. Well you get my point and its not unusual for the Giants draw 1-2 of those a year. So being able to add an arm to cover those trips or carry a fringe guy who fills a need at other position is a real nice luxury to have.
I agree its not Choice 1A but I have no qualms with naming it choice 1B and using it.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 19, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree it'd have to be a damn good 1B
Or OF or SS.
It’s just that classic case of finding a team with depth at a spot we don’t have and shallow at our strength (in this case, above average catchers). I just used 1B as an example, we obviously have plenty of bigger holes.
Say Elvis Andrus or something (since Michael Young seems locked up for awhile) if Saltamacchia didn’t work out. It’s more the premise than anything, right now it’s way too early to know where Pablo stands or where we stand, but the general idea should be to play Pablo until Posey is ready, and once Posey is ready, ship Pablo out for a position of need
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this might be picky but i would re- write the end of your last sentance to -
and once Posey is ready, let other teams try and talk us out of Pablo out for a position of need.
I look at the depth he could provide ( under that scenario if it came to pass) and production boost from what is normally a back up cather as being a huge advantage if a team is trying to win a division. An Advantage that I can’t quite figure how wrap up in a nice easy to see number or stat.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 19, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a) yes, coming to us is fine
b) The effect Pablo would have over the 100-125 at-bats he would get a backup catcher might equal 3/4-1 win as opposed to a backup catcher, but that is a best case scenario. It’s probably more like 1/2 a win. Whereas if you trade him for a good hitter at another position, you could be looking at a 3-5 win addition
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For my own education -
How does the figure account for a fresher first string catcher? Or being able to make a not great first baseman better be splitting time? Not just trying to be a smart ass at this point just not seeing it.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 19, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 150 P.A’s though would be an average back up catcher. And it also presumes league average production from first base not named Pablo, correct? And what about P.A.’s from back up first baseman?
I have been trying to think of recent baseball parallels were a player is good enough with the bat to be moved out from behind the plate while still healthy enough to play there so I can get a rough idea usage. All I am come up with Biggo ( an H.O.F type player so kind of dangerous ground) and Inge in ‘04 when he got 240 P.A.s at third splitting time with Munson resting Pudge. Any other possibilities?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Aug 19, 2008 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy with an average 1B at this point.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but
If we can trade Pablo as a catcher for an above average 1B, wouldn’t you rather have that?
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But I’d rather trade Sanchez for an above average 1B/3B
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and then you keep Pablo,
one of the few good hitters the team has. With the team’s lack of hitting, I’d be very hesitant to trade a good hitter for a good hitter.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why
If it’s a position based.
If we trade Sanchez for a hitter, we are opening up a hole in the rotation. We DO NOT have viable replacements close to the bigs to replace Sanchez. Presumably, if all works out well, we would have a viable Pablo replacement in Posey, a guy who for all intents and purposes should be better than Pablo.
So if we have two above average catchers, valuable commodities mind you, why not trade Pablo for value?
A young catcher that can post a .800 OPS could net us a young 1B capable of posting a .875 OPS (or a young OF of similar of similar offensive capability).
However, if you take that same .800 OPS and move it to 1B or 3B, the value of that player has suddenly fallen greatly.
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally see your point, but I wouldn’t dare trade Pablo until we know for sure that Buster has established as a MLB hitter.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 19, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Pablo might not even be an established MLB hitter either. This is all speculation.
I’m assuming Pablo does well in AAA in 09, gets a callup, and has a nice 2010. Meanwhile Buster develops and is ready to take over the job by 2011. A lot could happen to both players by then making all of this pure speculation, but assuming everything goes right, Pablo would have to go
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as the rotation goes...
If you assume Bumgarner and Alderson will be in the bigs in a couple years (which I think is a safe assumption), then the hole is minimized with the loss of Sanchez. Sure, Sanchez would be a nice 5th starter, but unless they start drafting like fiends or land a FA, this team has a lot of holes to fill and it would really help to trade the value that they have a lot of — pitching. I’m a bit concerned about Sanchez’ durability, and trading next year may be trading high on him, assuming he plays well. Next year they may not have many viable replacements close to the bigs, but they will in a few years, which is the time frame I thought we were discussing.
All this really depends on the development of Posey, Gillaspie, and Big V. If one of these does not pan out, it would be nice to have Sandoval as a replacement, as he could reasonably fill out any of those positions. However, if all these players turn out to be studs, then yeah, I can see Sandoval being expendable.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
In that case we could trade Sanchez AND Pablo to fill holes
I too have my Sanchez concerns
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for some odd reason I read that as “I’d be happy with an overage 1B at this point”. I though you wanted J.T. back.
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is arguement to be made
That if he performs well through the end of this year as well as in ST, he might be worth calling up for good in 2009.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 18, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like
I like that many of the Giants’ position prospects can play more than one position, offering platoon opportunities, the chance to mix and match lineups and the opportunity to play both Buster Posey and Pablo Sandoval at catcher and other positions so as not to burn out the knees of either.
by sharksrog on Aug 19, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless there is an injury, the only two players I want catching for the Giants for 2009 are Pablo Sandoval and Steve Holm.
by rotorueter on Aug 18, 2008 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With Old Man Molina looking down from above
Like Simba in the Lion King.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 18, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Mufasa? Unless you mean Simba from The Lion King II.
by Natto on Aug 18, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever the hell
the lion, Darth Vader, and James Earl Jones doing the CNN promoz.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 18, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interupting “Bleeding Gums” Murphy
by chilibean_3 on Aug 18, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is CNN
Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!
by BrianBokake on Aug 18, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i make that mistake every time this movie is talked about
…which is a lot, surprisingly. It’s on ice, you know
by theghostofjasonellison on Aug 18, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took a child to see Disney on Ice once, it wasn’t half bad. Meaning I didn’t want to die during the performance.
by chilibean_3 on Aug 18, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Lion King” the Broadway was one of the most magical things I’ve ever seen. Very African influenced music and dance and unbelievable costumes.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 18, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I so want to see that show. It looks so beautiful and well done.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 19, 2008 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved the lake to open the second act. That was brilliant.
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spoiler alert
The opening scene when the big animals come down through the audience and the big scene where Mufasa’s face appears in the sky to talk to Simba were my favorite scenes
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 19, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In case there’s anyone who’s not familiar with how they adapted an animated film into a live show and maybe thinking “Disney? Broadway? Sounds lame.”, this little clip captures some of how cool it really is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV7i0IPomMA&feature=related
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 19, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it on DVD? I’ve never seen a stage performance of it and I doubt I’d have the means to anytime in the near future.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 19, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think so.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 19, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was so shocked when Scar turned out to be evil. I mean, who would expect a lion named SCAR to be the bad guy! Come on!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Aug 18, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scar had to have been a nickname, though, right?
I mean, I’m sure his parents didn’t give him the name Scar. His name probably was Ed, for all we know.
Actually, it was probably something African sounding.
Speaking of which, I find it a little odd that Mufasa and his wife decided to name their son “Lion.” That’s like someone naming their kid Human.
Only 850 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Aug 18, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They named him Simba.
Ed was the retard hyena
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Aug 18, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simba is swahili for lion
Only 850 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Aug 19, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait… you’re saying Scar was evil?
Man, I’ve been interpreting this movie wrong for YEARS.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2008 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that was Scar, and he’s clearly a Dodger fan.
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LIES
Scar was voiced by Jeremy Irons and Jeremy Irons would never be a Dodger fan.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Aug 19, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Iron’s isn’t a Dodger fan, but I mantain Scar is. Who but a Dodger fan would starve his own tribe just to be King?
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we sure that’s not Sabean?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 19, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Irons was in the Dungeons and Dragons movie.
Thus, he should be killed with a fork.
by xanthan on Aug 19, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He probably still lives in his mother’s basement, too.
The All-Father is now...umm...a Grizzly. But he was a Giant for a while.
by EliminateMe on Aug 19, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE WAS THE BEST PART OF THAT AWFUL MOVIE BECAUSE HE WAS SO CLEARLY DOIN’ IT FOR THE LULZ.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Aug 19, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG SPOILERS!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2008 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about making that joke, but then I thought “That one’s predictable and stupid.”
So, another howtheyscored joke from howtheyscored!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Aug 19, 2008 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who’s joking? Lion King 2 was totally coming up on my NetFlix, right between Teeth and Nightmare on Elm Street.
But now what’s the point?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2008 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Aboard!
The All-Father is now...umm...a Grizzly. But he was a Giant for a while.
by EliminateMe on Aug 18, 2008 5:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i added him on my team
we need 2 catchers and its keeper, so i thought id take a flier.. if he keeps hitting 300+, he’d be a great asset to my team
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Aug 18, 2008 5:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
An argument could be made for trading high on him in the next year or two
But trading away good hitting prospects on the Giants does not compute in my supercomputer. For some reason it doesn’t think the Giants have many of them, and trading away any good hitters would be “FAIL”, whatever that means.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
.312 translated OBP. Be still my beating heart.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Aug 19, 2008 8:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if that .312 OBP comes with the other stats from a 22 year old catcher, I’m all in.
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it's Feliz-land OBP...
but it’s his rookie season, and he’s still developing, hell he’s only 22, and he’s only seen about a 1/4 season in the upper minors, plenty of time to work on plate discipline and converting a few more of those 2B into HR and iron out his some of his defense..
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on Aug 19, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the average lines for catcher are:
.259/.324/.392 – AL
.255/.328/.389 – NL
So, while his OBP would be a bit below average, his slugging would be way above average and overall he would be an above average offensive catcher who is cheap and young. Be still my beating heart indeed.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 19, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, I am not saying Pablito is bad
But how low can you go when it’s like “Booyah! Adequacy!”
\*Caveat: He’s 22 and that’s good.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Aug 19, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how low can you go when it’s like "Booyah! Adequacy!"
Been watching the Giants long?
by xanthan on Aug 19, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, at this point he would be pretty ok. But the potential is there and he’s cheap. So champagne for all.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Aug 19, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade sanchez for a 3B, keep pablo at catcher once he’s ready, and move buster posey to SS, bam infield solved!
by lincypoo i wuv u on Aug 19, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
just how good of a SS is Posey?
People keep bringing it up, but did he really play THAT much where he could be considered a viable MLB SS? Or is this just wishful Nate-for-3B talk?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Aug 19, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean...
Nate can’t play 3B?
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on Aug 19, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't listen to them.
Randy Winn cannot play third base. Randy Winn cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz, Giants 3B of the future! Randy Winn cannot play third base.
by groud on Aug 19, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2008/08/17/will-aurilia-be-a-giant-next-season/#comment-601
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Aug 19, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm talkin about!
Randy Winn cannot play third base. Randy Winn cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz, Giants 3B of the future! Randy Winn cannot play third base.
by groud on Aug 19, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure Nate can ply 3B and a solid inside linebacker (after seeing his Olympic exploits)
by tyrannoman on Aug 19, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
UNLESS YOU PLAYED FOOTBALL YOU COULD NEVER KNOW THAT!
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Aug 19, 2008 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was an Freshman All-American at SS, just like Brandon Crawford. He’s considered fairly athletic. He can’t exactly be a butcher at SS.
by Hobbes2d on Aug 19, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
C Sandoval
1b Ishikawa
2b Frandsen
3b Villalona
SS Posey
by wilriv21 on Aug 19, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and pray no one hits it to the left side of the infield?
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Aug 19, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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