Bullpain
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 12:33 PM PDT
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PrintMy disconnect:
a. The Giants have several young and exciting arms pitching in relief throughout the organization. This should make me excited for the future. A few of them are up in the majors, so that should make me interested in the present.
b. The Giants’ current bullpen is a soul-consuming debacle, and it will consume your child’s soul in a debacleous fashion the second you let your guard down.
I would look forward to watching this bullpen next season:
- Brian Wilson
- Sergio Romo
- Alexander Hinshaw
- Geno Espineli
- Jack Taschner (not in a set-up role…)
- Justin Hedrick, or some dude who has a good spring training, or a free agent (Juan Cruz? The sure-to-be-overpaid Scott Downs? There are a few options…)
Maybe I’m jumping the gun on Hedrick, though. If you look at his minor league numbers, you’ll see the Giants have some pretty specific plans for him. Only after three years in AAA (combined ERA for those three seasons: 0.30), will Hedrick be able to be considered for the possibility of a potential promotion. You wouldn’t want to fast-track the guy, now. If there’s one thing the Giants don’t stand for, it’s rushing players to the majors who haven’t proven their worth in the minors.
But that list is more or less the current Giants bullpen, less Tyler Walker and Keiichi Yabu. Yabu has been just fine, for the most part, so my plan for a watchable bullpen is:
1. Get rid of Tyler Walker
2. Don’t even think about Billy Sadler until he makes major strides with his control
3. …
4. … uh…
5. …
6. …
7. …
My seven-point plan is pretty flawless, if I don’t say so myself. I like Espineli, though I'm not sure why. I like Hinshaw, though I don't think he knows where the ball is going half of the time. I like Romo, though he throws strikes, which is totally weird and non-conforming. I can live with Taschner in the middle or back of a bullpen.
Comment starter: Your plans for next year's bullpen, if you would.
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So that’s what happened to my child’s soul! I was wondering…
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
Anyone want to guess the odds that Sabean picks up a reliever, moderate-to-high priced, on the FA market over the offseason? The bullpen ranks dead last in ERA in the National League. K-Rod will be entering the market. I’m a tad nervous. Or do you think he’s still scarred by the Benitez signing?
Terrible signings don’t frighten Sabean.
by chilibean_3 on Aug 15, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I would have thought so a year ago, but Sabean was faced with the same temptation before this season and didn’t give in (Linebrink, Coco Cordero, etc).
There are quite a few options this year, though. That scares me.
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
K-Rod would be a waste of cash.
Until we have a higher percentage of Insurmountable leads , what’s the point?
Arizona thinks we're Washington which thinks we're Arizona.
by victor frankenstein on Aug 15, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think we'll sign a closer
something like the Linebrink signing for the ChiSox seems like a possibility, though.
you can't block the Bocock
Bill Neukom factor
If Nuekom stays to his word, we won’t be seeing any big free agent signings this offseason. He seems more in favor of building through the farm system and making trades rather than going after high priced FA.
I think it’s smart of Neukom to vow off the high-priced FAs, especially in the pen. Bullpen arms are so volatile that it’s not usually worth spending for them. However, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to pick up a couple, three veteran castoffs (especially of the left-handed variety) just to see if one of them might pan out. Ideally, these guys wouldn’t even be type Bs, so no worries about draft compensation.
+1
totally down for this.
Bullpen arms are seriously so up and down that its not worth blowing 4 mil a year and being disappointed. I’d rather pick up a Yabu or two and just destroy their arms in mop up and so on.
by Giant Voodoo on Aug 15, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
2 quotes from Neukom
The change at the top may signal a different direction. Under Magowan, the Giants spent freely on aging free agents, a tactic that some critics claim has led to their recent downfall. Under Neukom, expect the Giants to continue building the farm system.
“I don’t pitch or field or hit,” Neukom said. “My job is to work with professionals on the baseball side to make sure we have the talent that shows skills on the field. That means we’ve got to keep building our farm system and our coaches, because those are the people who teach so the kids can play the game in the Major Leagues at the highest level.”
“I think the Giants are on the right trajectory,” he said. “We are going to continue to invest in our farm system and our development system, finding the right talent to make us better. I think that’s what we should be doing. All of those things we’re making progress in. Those have been the bright spots this year. The trajectory is the right one.”
He also hasn’t publicly committed to Sabean, so even if Sabes wants to go after a K-rod type, I would think that Nuekom would block the move.
I think Sabean will stick around. Nuekom has been a major shareholder for a long time now and Sabean was given an extension last year. So it’s not like he wasn’t on board with such a decision. You can really only do what your allowed to do by your bosses. You really think Brian Cashman thought Richie Sexson was a good acquisition? I doubt it. Just as I doubt Sabean really wanted to pay Zito or make some of the other dumb moves he has made or at least been credited with making…
Agreed on both counts. I really hope Valdez can come back, he looked very sharp early this season.
The All-Father is now...umm...a Grizzly. But he was a Giant for a while.
by EliminateMe on Aug 15, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
And what do people think of Pichardo? His walks are a lot higher than one would like (imagine that in a Giants reliever!), but his ERA is hovering around 2.50 and he’s striking out about a hitter per inning pitched.
When does this blog break away from SB Nation and become a division of Zooperstars™? I have the over/under as 3:47pm this afternoon.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
Update
Buzz on the street has it that negotiations have stalled. Grant is holding out for a $5.7M signing bonus and a date with Mia Hammster.
The All-Father is now...umm...a Grizzly. But he was a Giant for a while.
The Giants’ current bullpen is a soul-consuming debacle
well, if it isn’t a soul-consuming debacle, it’ll do ’til the soul-consuming debacle gets here.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 15, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions
Reminds me of one of my fave Damon Runyon lines
“Personally, I always claim Cecil Earl is a little screwy, or if he is not screwy that he will do very well as a pinch-hitter until a screwy guy comes up to bat.”
The All-Father is now...umm...a Grizzly. But he was a Giant for a while.
Grant..
You forgot Hennessey in your plans.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
So what's the deal with Hedrick?
Srsly, as they say in cat.
Does he not have good stuff? Does he throw the ball real slow? It seems that we should have seen him by now, which I know was your point, but I’m just wondering if anyone has a clue why we haven’t.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
Zito as long reliever
until he gets his shit together, which may never happen. Just don’t want him starting for the next 5 years.
Great idea
That way we get to watch him four or five times per week instead of one or two!
Hector Sanchez: really getting tired of playing baseball in foreign countries...
I missed the end of yesterday's game.
What happened?
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
“AAAAAH! THE FLAMES ARE SPREADING! AIEEEEEE!”
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
“Give me your hand! GIVE ME YOUR HAND!”
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
“NO! YOU’RE GOING TO MAKE IT! JUST GIVE ME YOUR H….NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!”
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
looks shopped
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Aug 15, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I can tell from some of the whiskers and from seeing quite a few hydrogen-filled manatees in my time.
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 15, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You missed the real news!
Cody Ransom called up by the Yankees!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 15, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions
i still haven't stopped laughing
I can’t decide what’s more desperate and fail-y: releaseing Sexson or calling up Ransom.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Not a huge fan of Espinelli
Idk, why. I guess he could be valuable in the Mike Myers (pitch against one LHB then come out) type of role. But him pitching the other night to I think it was Wigginton was scaring the shit out of me. Especially when every ball he hit foul was hit hard.
Craig Whitaker seems like he could be perfect for the Giants in a year or two. He has command issues, formerly had injury problems but he strikes people out. He also gets ground balls.
Dan Griffin seems like another possibility in the future. That’s one thing I won’t worry about with the Giants, we have plenty of bullpen arms in the minors. The question is if they can be any good in a set role in the Majors.
I’m guessing Jared Cranston got hurt (hasn’t pitched this year) and he had some really nice numbers last year at Salem-Kaizer, granted as a starter but he seems likely for a reliever role down the road.
Also I’m all for signing really low key bullpen arms to minor league deals to bring them to spring training like Yabu. Maybe they can surprise and be effective again. The rate attrition for most relievers is pretty high. So many of them year to year are very streaky. That includes closers of course, except for the freaks like Rivera or Hoffman (until this year).
definitely not a lineup i woulda ever imagined at the beginning of the year
by stealth snail on Aug 15, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
My plan for bullpen
Wilson
Hinshaw
Taschner
and some combination of
Romo
Matos
Espinelli
Sadler
Valdez
Zito
Lowry
Hennessey
Misch
Correia
Probably in that order, too.
Only 855 games until the end of Zito's contract
question
Does Taschner still have crazy reverse-split numbers against righties?
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
They're not crazy
But they are there.
RHH OPS against: .763
LHH OPS against: .707 (represent! [sorry, that’s my area code])
Only 855 games until the end of Zito's contract
The only thing I know about hyphy is that it describes my wifey.
Only 855 games until the end of Zito's contract
Isn’t this the same crap that they’ve rolled out her this year. If they sucked this year, you can count on them sucking again next year……but without the excuse that they’re rookies.
Seriously, outside of Wilson, Hinshaw and perhaps Valdez & Taschner, the rest of them are just not ready to pitch in the bigs yet. I don’t see why the Giants don’t try to pick up some veteran relievers….just as long as they don’t sign them to ridiculous long term contracts.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
I wouldn't be totally opposed to cheap to decent relievers fromt free agency
But I do not feel that I can count on them sucking next year. None of them has pitched a whole lot, besides Wilson and Taschner. Sure, they’ve had their struggles. But they have also looked good, too.
As for individuals: I believe in Wilson and Hinshaw. Taschner is what he is, which is serviceable. I think Romo and Matos will be decent, but this is not guaranteed. Sadler, is a big question mark because of his control. Valdez is a big question mark because of his injury history. Espinelli is probably a LOOGY. The rest are last resorts/long-shots/surprises.
Only 855 games until the end of Zito's contract
I like to play jr. GM as much as the next guy
But I have to admit I have no idea how to build a good ML bullpen.
What do you need? 300 innings of good stuff, maybe 100 of that superlative. The rest, who cares?
Any studies on this?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
OT
Washburn was also waiting for Boof…
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/08/washburn_its_frustrating.html
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
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