Extra Baggs re: Posey
by hitme on Aug 13, 2008 8:23 PM PDT
141 comments
Hopefully this doesn't get deleted like my last post, but Baggarly posted on his blog that Posey is unofficially signed for a major league contract of $7.5 million, which was $1.5 million more than Matt Wieters. I wonder if it will be announced soon or if it will be done late, since that contract is well over slot. Looks like everyone is locked up. Hopefully Sabean doesn't screw up the rookies developments like he has this year.
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I wouldn’t say they purposely screwed up certain player’s development, it was more out of necessity.
Well thank you Captain Obvious. Everyone knew about the lack of foresight for the last 4 years, but that doesn’t take away from the idiocy of being shocked that guys are being rushed up to the majors simply because they lack depth and talent in the upper minors.
I wouldn’t go as far to say that people are idiots just because fans are upset that people who couldn’t hit at A ball are all of the sudden starting SS on Opening Day. There are other organizations out there that had bare farm systems (maybe not as bare), and they weren’t calling up prospects and having them jump 2-3 levels straight to the majors.
it’s not his fault that none of us are as smart as him
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2008 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I would...
...but your two-dimensional mind is simply two shallow to comprehend my various protrusions.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
That’s what she said!
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 13, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait…I think I did that wrong.
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Aug 13, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I want to go for the fourth dimension. Then I’d have one dimension more on all ya!
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Aug 14, 2008 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions
The trouble with having an extra dimension is that the troubles people with less dimensions can inadvertently cause you go up exponentially with each extra dimension.
How do I know? I spend a lot of time being shallow and hard to endure to intellectually "deep".
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
It’s sad and hopeless being the lowly grubs that we are.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 13, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Hobbes’s tone was deserved here…
by haverecords on Aug 13, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
More so endorsing a snarky response to a comment rehashing a tired topic with no little amount of careless exaggeration.
by haverecords on Aug 13, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
you're right, it wasn't intentional
it was just negligent.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 13, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn, I was kind of looking forward to the McCovey over-reactors having a mass heart attack around 8:45 Friday night. Oh well, maybe next year
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2008 8:42 PM PDT reply actions
Lots of money
There goes a spot on the 40-man roster. Hope he signed for many a seasons. Hope he earns every penny because if he turns out to be a Brad Ausmus then a battery of Zito and Posey will be quite expensive.
Dude, what?
Ausmus and Posey have nothing in common.
a battery of Zito and Posey will be quite expensive.
Yeah, because a battery of Zito and anybody is quite expensive. Posey’s contract won’t affect that number hardly at all.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Ausmus is a great defensive catcher who doesn’t hit. If Posey does not hit he then will be a great defensive catcher. Not in favor of giving a draft pick a ML contract. Rather give them an opportunity and they earn the promotion.
Even though it seems like a ton of money, in the great scheme of things draft pick money is some of the most efficient money you can spend as a ball club.
Teams do procure talent in the draft, however, it still is a crapshoot for MLB. Very low numbers of players drafted reached the MLs.
That is taken into account though. The few successes outweigh the many failures to such a strong degree that the money ends up being spent more efficiently than through the free agency.
Replying to my own poooooost
BaseballProspectus did a story on this a year ago or so that was very compelling——that’s essentially what I am basing my claims on.
Which makes sense, when you figure in that once most people even reach FA they have already had their best seasons. It’s always smarter to invest in young talent and building through the draft than in Free Agency. This is true in just about any sport except for Basketball, where the chances of getting a star player in the draft are pretty slim unless you pick in the top 5.
Huh?
Your chances of getting a player that ever makes it to the ML, let alone a star, are much much lower in baseball than basketball…
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 14, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions
the Giants have been telling us they are committed to rebuilding and they wanted to do more investing in amateur talent and less signing of aging veterans to “win now.” Between having what will undoubtedly be the most expensive draft class in MLB and the two high dollar Dominican kids they are really putting their money where their mouth is. (is “putting their money where their mouth is” the worst pun known to man? I think it is)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Sweet!
It’ll be interesting to see what they do with Sandoval, if Posey rises quickly through the ranks. Pablo is no sure thing to be great, or stay at catcher, but if he turns out to be a stud, then I can see them moving him to first eventually. ..Well, one thing is for sure, having depth at catcher, is a problem a lot of teams would like to have…. Posey seems like a guy that could be here on opening day 2010. It sounds like the Giants went 4/4 with their top picks!
No, no
When Pablo turns out to be a stud catcher, Posey shifts back to his natural position of shortstop. Brandon Crawford sells shoes in the mall, Ivan Ochoa goes home and tells his friends that he once played with the legendary Omar Vizquel, and everybody’s happy.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
according to agent chatter, No.5 overall pick Buster Posey is a done deal.
WHO IS AGENT CHATTER??? DOES HE KNOW AGENT NED??
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
By which you mean next year when he wins the new Catcher of the Century award which they’ll invent for him and never give to anybody else, even when there’s a new century because he’s so good, and then even if he never plays again, they’ll still count ridiculous stats in our favor because they know that if he was playing he would be putting up those numbers and we’d always win.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 13, 2008 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
and the Posey statue is erected at 2nd & King after a rookie campaign that places Buster in the HOF winith minutes of the season ending…becoming the first player in the history of mankind to be an active player while in the HOF.
500 home run season, hits .650 all year, wins the World Series singlehandledly, ends world hunger, and saves the planet from an invasion of a belligerent alien race.
Meanwhile Tim Lincecum is sad because all he did was win 30 games strike out 400 batters and post an ERA of 0.00 and he’s still only second banana to Posey.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
500 HR while ONLY hitting .650
Would require, at a minimum 770 AB’s.
That is a lot of extra inning games.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Aug 14, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s Buster Posey. He can bend the rules of time and space.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus I’m guessing we’re turning the lineup over quite few times with that offense. Average of 7 ABs a game?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
We could have Angel Villalona, Nick Noonan, et al in the lineup. Noonan is no masher but I like a guy who can hit in my lineup.
Debating the logistics of such a baseball season is rather silly when the larger issue of solving world hunger is easier to solve. Though that requires a lot of political jabber.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
best Giants day in a long time.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 13, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Ring around the rosey
Pockets full of Posey
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
Wendell Fairley?
Angel Villalona: Rush Fan? Probably.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 14, 2008 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions
This is sorta disappointing. I was starting to look forward to Operation Have-A-Collective-Ulcer-While-At-The-San-Jose-Game on Saturday.
It’s not going to happen, but what if they assigned Posey to SJ before Saturday’s game? I can dream…
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
OMFG
That would rule so hard.
I’ll still be thrilled if we get Gillaspie! (Also unlikely)
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Yeah, I will scream like a 5 year old girl if that happens. I won’t be embarrassed to have done so.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I'll have one for you anyways.
Angel Villalona: Rush Fan? Probably.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 14, 2008 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s a big chunk o’ change if true, but surprisingly I don’t really mind the major league contract. It seems like in the last few years that’s become standard for better players, and the guys at BA seem to think he can be in the major leagues and sticking sooner rather than later. Course, 20-20 blah blah whatever – for now, I’m going to be hopeful that the deal gets done, that he does well and that we get to watch a great player.
Proud new parent of Mr. Buster Posey... you know, if he signs and stuff.
by GiantsFanInExile on Aug 13, 2008 9:17 PM PDT reply actions
I hope that won’t be all the signings…but if it is…!!!!
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Crazy talk ...
I can’t believe anyone is upset at $7.5M for a top prospect.
Put it this way:
6 years of Buster Posey = $7.5M
1 year of Ray Durham = $7.5M
Looks like money well spent to me.
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
since hes on the 40 man
wouldnt that be only 3 years for 7.5 then arbitration? i forget how it works
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
Being on the 40 man roster doesn’t effect his MLB service time clock, that still doesn’t begin until he actually plays in MLB.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
though it might effect his availbie number of options down the road.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
it certainly does effect that
assuming this is a 2009 contract, if he doesn’t make the MLB club out of spring training that’s one option year right there and he will only have 2 more left.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 14, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s actually a really good point. Unless Posey ends up a bust…
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 13, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to illustrate the point a little
Even if he ends up a bust, you can look at the big picture with the draft. If you draft well and sign the guys, even if they cost a lot, some will hit and you’ll end up making it all back. Looking back at the Giants first rounders from 2002-2006:
Cain
Aardsma
Whitaker
Lincecum
Burriss
You’ve got 2 huge hits, 1 miss, and 2 at least serviceable players. We have reduced cost on Cain and Lincecum for what, 12-15 years total? On the free market, their type of talent would cost between 15 and 20 million a year, probably. That type of savings can easily cover a measly $7.5 million bust that is spread over 6 years.
Anyways, we all know that Posey is going to descend, fully formed, and lay waste to the Dodgers.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Lincecum is going year-to-year with his contract, so we might not exactly be getting a discount on him in the near future. Smart play by him actually, since he’ll make a lot of money once he is arbitration eligible.
True, but he’ll still make less in arbitration than on the market. Also, I still think he’ll sign a long term deal; it might not be Evan Longoria great, but it should hopefully lock him up a little longer.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
It is an extremely risky move by Lincecum. Yes it could pay off big but if something doesn’t go right (God forbid!) it could end up being a terrible decision. I agree that he will eventually come around on the idea of signing long term.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Aug 13, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
The longer he waits, the less likely it becomes.
The way he’s pitching now, he could make nearly as much as the entire guaranteed portion of Cain’s contract in his first year of arbitration. If Ryan Howard could get 10M in his first year of arbitration, so could Lincecum (or at least come very close).
Given the promise he’s shown, Lincecum would still be in line to earn millions of dollars even if he suddenly became injury prone. Look at Prior, he’s made 8M the last three seasons, despite has complete inability to perform.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Exactly. And Lincecum would likely get more than 10 million too. Howard plays first base, and pitchers generally get more money on the open market. Shit Gil Meche got 10 million a year and he’s like a 3rd or 4th starter.
Russell Martin is doing the same thing, waiting year to year, and I think he’s arbitration eligible next year or the year after. He’s going to get a lot of money.
That;s just it. Durham earned his monies after being an AS and putting up number in the MLs.
Most of McCoven wanted Justin Smoak with the 5th pick – would you give Smoak a $7.5M ML contract? I wouldn’t.
Who cares about the money? Honestly, does that $7.5 hindered the team? That money was already budgeted for him. It didn’t stop them from overslot paying for their other top picks.
It’s not putting them over the salary ca ….......
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
Believe that the 2008 SF salary total of around $70M from $90M the seasons before was a smart way of moving monies around at ML level so they could have the monies for scouting, development and procurement. If the budget remained at $90M believe they would not have had the draft budget monies they are spending.
Their revenues are much much much higher than when they first lifted payroll into the $90-95 mil range. I’d guess they could pretty easily support $120 mil payroll now and still turn a profit. In fact, one time late last year Ralph asked Sabean if it was even possible that they could sign Arod with Zito on the roster and Sabes coolly replied that if it made baseball sense they had the space to do it in their budget.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
I don't see a lot of people who are upset
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Wait...
I thought $7.5mil was JUST the signing bonus on top of whatever he will make on a yearly basis right? Or am I totally wrong?
Bill Mueller? I expect at least A-Rod type numbers from my son, Conor Gillaspie
He's signing a major league contract
Chances are, about half is the signing bonus and the rest is distributed over several seasons. At least, that’s the way it’s usually done.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I've seen Carter Bell mentioned a few times today
But I know nothing of him. Can y’all fill me in on why we should be excited about him signing/not signing?
On draft day, what I found written and said about him leads me to believe that he’s Nick Noonan v2.0. I might be his most vocal supporter here.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 13, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Posey’s signing would be fantastic news. Over the last few months, there’s been a lot to like:
- Posey, Gillaspie, Kieschnick, Crawford are all taken in a highly rated draft.
- Luis Mateo and Rafael Rodriguez sign out of Latin America.
- Pablo Sandoval, Travis Ishikawa and Madison Bumgarner kick ass in the minors.
- Fred Lewis is all growed up and a big-league outfielder now.
—Lincecum dominates, Cain is pretty damn good and Sanchez shows tons of potential.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Aug 13, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
these are always brilliant btw
Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!
by BrianBokake on Aug 13, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that Sabean acknowledges his own reference with a verbal backslash.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Aug 14, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Update Baggs Blog:
According to industry sources, No.5 overall pick Buster Posey is a done deal. It’s expected to be a major league contract in the neighborhood of $7.5 million. That shatters the biggest amateur bonus in franchise history — by nearly $5 million.We knew Posey was going to get at least $6 million, which is what Georgia Tech catcher Matt Wieters got in the same slot last year. Posey’s bonus is more than the $6.15 million that Tampa Bay gave to the first overall pick, high school shortstop Tim Beckham. It might be the biggest deal that any draft pick signs this year.
The Giants refuse to confirm, though Brian Sabean told me that progress had been made and they might not be forced to sweat to the last hour of Friday’s deadline. I originally heard that Posey just needed to pass a physical, but now I’m told he already had one last week in Scottsdale.
Also, third-rounder Roger Kieschnick got $525,000, which is $40,000 over slot value. And while it hasn’t been announced, their fourth-round pick, UCLA shortstop Brandon Crawford, has signed for $375,000 — $92,000 over slot. Bruins officials were told he’s not coming back next season.
So yes, the Giants be a’spending.
This is so awesome.
This does point out though, once again, that Sabean isn’t a great financial negotiator.
Nah, I don’t think it means that. Posey won the Golden Spikes and led college in BA/OBP/SLG (I think?), so he had a pretty good bargaining position.
He and the others were - at different points this year - expected to go higher than they did. Paying a little extra seems reasonable.
by Dan from NM on Aug 13, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed
it seemed like Posey’s price tag was one of the main reasons he fell to us.
Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!
by BrianBokake on Aug 13, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather....
Spend like this than spend on the next free agent wearing a Michael Tucker mask.
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Aug 14, 2008 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Not a bad thing. No sirree…
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Aug 14, 2008 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Posey's pre-draft demands
apparently the “8 figure bonus” demand was designed to make some of the cheaper teams skip him and ensure he’d be drafted by a team willing to spend. If the team wasn’t willing to spend, it shouldn’t have drafted him.
But it was. I don’t think the money is a big deal. I’m kinda surprised that he got a Major League contract, but it isn’t the first time that’s ever happened either. Andrew Miller got one a few years ago (and a promise to promote him to the majors that same season, which the Tigers did.)
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 13, 2008 10:10 PM PDT reply actions
i'm sure someone else has already pointed this out
but it will be damn awesome to see the majors’ first Golden Spikes battery when Lincecum throws to Posey.
who cares if someone posted it already
after todays shellacking we’ve earned a little premature giddiness.
Rafael Rodriguez: Pretty young!
by BrianBokake on Aug 13, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
2009? 2010? When do we get to dance?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Last thing I want to do...
Is get my hopes up. I don’t think my fragile heart can take it.
Angel Villalona: Rush Fan? Probably.
by AngelintheInfield on Aug 14, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Baseball is the only thing I believe in anymore. Not love, not Jesus, nothing else.
So no pressure or anything.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Well I do believe in my handmade Bailey’s truffles, but that’s not really a diety. Each one is like a tiny, delicious demi-god.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
But that's reality!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
What does unofficially signed mean?
I gotta get an unofficial signature…I’ll never have to pay a credit card bill again.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
I agree.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
this
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 14, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
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