Quickly....

by Grant on Jul 8, 2008 12:52 PM PDT Comment 72 comments

Illness prevented me from writing a coherent post today, but I was trying to write a piece about the Mercury News article today. A key quote:

"With a veteran, especially a free agent, you have to be open-minded," Sabean said. "Arguably, is it worth more to give a younger player a chance and also get something tangible back (in trade)?"

Yes. Yes, it is.

I had a lot more on this article, but I just can't think right now. Open Trade Thread.

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Comments

First!

Cain for Crede!

Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!

by UnleashTheGore on Jul 8, 2008 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum for Bill Hall!!!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The quotes about Randy Winn in this article make me apprehensive. Will Sabes trade for Randy Winn Part 2: Electric Boogalo?

The difference is that Schueler had pitchers who were impending free agents. Sabean’s pitchers are either young (Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Jonathan Sanchez) or carrying a $126 million contract (Barry Zito), making them highly unlikely to be traded.
Sabean sees his situation as more closely related to 2005, when the Giants were 13 games under .500 – yet just 5 1/2 games out of first place – on July 31. They acquired outfielder Randy Winn from Seattle for pitcher Jesse Foppert and catcher Yorvit Torrealba.

Sabean will look for a similar deal in an effort to support the club’s bid to compete, but he is realistic about his chances.

So, we trade for marginal-ish player, who goes crazy over the remainder of the season, and then we extend him for years to come!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The trade itself was pretty good

The extension, not so much.

Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!

by UnleashTheGore on Jul 8, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In all seriousness

I think the Randy Winn trade was a good one in a vacuum.

Yorvit is pretty much akin to the sort of MiL scrubs we have fighting for positions now. Randy has been a much better player over the last 3 years than Yorvit has and they will both probably be out of baseball at the same time, and since Foppert was garbage I think the Giants came out well ahead.

Extending Winn like we did was probably a mistake however.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Extending Winn like we did was probably a mistake however.

Yes.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

your assuming we could have used that money to a better end

you forget that it would be sabean spending it. chalk up a few extra mil for Barry Zito.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jul 8, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not so much spending the money

As it is that now we have a Pretty good outfielder we would like to trade, but he has too big of a contract.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but he has too big of a contract.

You can say that about the majority of veteran OF’s though. Look at Adam Dunn. Just wait till the Angels try to unload Torri Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr. Or the Mets Beltran etc.

Winn is less overpaid then a lot of other people are.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Beltran overpaid right now? I’d say no. Dunn is pretty good, too.

The Hunter deal wasn’t great and GMJ was a terrible deal.

Point is, most of those guys are better than Winn.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except no.

Beltran is making 18.5 million over the next 4 years (that’s including this season). Including a shitload of deferred salary. With his propensity for injury and inconsistencies at the plate, I don’t see how he isn’t overpaid at nearly 19 million a year over the next 3 seasons. Not to mention he gets 8.5 million a year from 08-11 in deferments. Ask the Mets if they feel like they’ve gotten their money’s worth. Or if the fans have felt that way.

Dunn is making 13 mill this year to hit .228. Yes he is still hitting HR’s and getting on base, but the Reds probably can’t even trade him since he has a full no trade clause. And he’s an adventure out in LF.

Hunter’s making 16 mill this year, 17.5 next year and 18 a year over the final 3 years of his deal. Is he twice the player Winn is? No.

So case in point, Randy Winn at 8.25 mill in 08 and 09 = bargain compared to what some of his peers are making, and also compared to the production they are putting up or aren’t putting up.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Find the sarcasm!

OK, you’ve convinced me Hobbes2d, Randy Winn is better than Carlos Beltran and Adam Dunn.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the internets, I do not possess my sarchasm meter.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't see the contract being a huge issue

The Giants could just eat some of the money. I think they’re under budget right now, so it won’t really be a big deal.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 8, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and by your, i mean you’re. we could really use an edit option for those dumb grammar mistakes i always notice a second after i hit “post”

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe we could have use the extra cash to bring in another CF like Dave Rober…..

n/m.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roberts was and is a LF. I think you mean Steve Finley…

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finley gave us way more

than Alfonso would have. That was a pretty good trade, IMHO

Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!

by UnleashTheGore on Jul 8, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steve Finley is Steve Finley, therefore it was not that good of a trade.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 8, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember when he got all whiny because he was starting to get benched after it was super clear that he was baked as a player?

Yeah, I don’t like Finley either.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda like Marvin Benard.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have rather just DFA’d Alfonzo, tbh.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 8, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

last year when the Giants played the Rockies Kruk and Kuip were discussing the fact that with Finley now playing for the Rockies he has played for every team in the NL West. Kruk, referencing his legendary Giant-killer status, said “and everywhere he has been he has killed the Giants” to which I replied “yeah, especially the year he played for the Giants.” I was quite proud of it, but much like most of my best jokes it came with me watching TV alone on my couch with nobody to appreciate it. Too bad I hadn’t discovered the Gameday Threads back then

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 9, 2008 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you black out the 91 games he played in center for us last year? I know I did.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of last year is a big black out. Other than some of Cain and Lincecum’s starts.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was it really that big of a mistake? Especially given we wouldn’t have been able to find a RF who would have produced the way Winn has. Don’t even say Schierholtz either, since he at best would put up Winn like numbers, sans the SB’s and lesser defense.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We really had no reason to extend Winn, he was on the books for the rest of ‘05 and all of ‘06. Sabean immediately extended him after his HOMERFEST of ‘05, which wasn’t really the true Randy Winn. I sometimes wonder how much HOMERFEST ‘05 influenced Brian’s decision making on Winn.

Winn isn’t a terrible option in CF, so maybe I secretly hate Dave Roberts as well. But we had no reason to extend him the way we did.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you bitching just to bitch about something? I mean honestly what’s the problem?

I must say I don’t like the money he was extended for, but Randy Winn has been pretty damn reliable, and at the money he is making, relative to other OF’s of his experience level he comes at a fucking bargain. And he’s outperforming most of these other guys, at a lower cost.

Rowand will likely be in that same boat for the next few years. I didn’t like the amount of money he got, but relative to what other CF’s are likely to get over the next few years when they become FA eligible, he’s going to look like a bargain.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you bitching just to bitch about something? I mean honestly what’s the problem?

Yes, whats the deal with airplane food!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Xanthan’s a bitch. I also agree that Winn’s extension wasn’t that big a deal. He and Kotsay signed nearly identical deals aat about the same time and obviously Winn did a better job of earning his money than Kotsay.

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Xanthan’s a bitch.

Harsh!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bitch, please

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talk to the hand.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

“But we’ve completely changed our tune. We’re not interested in the year-to-year planning we’ve done in the past. While you’d like to add a bat to the lineup, we’re not going to add (an impending) free agent.

This out of Sabeans mouth is at least encouraging. Might have to give him some more credit than we have thus far.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

“But we’ve completely changed our tune. We’re not interested in the year-to-year planning we’ve done in the past. While you’d like to add a bat to the lineup, we’re not going to add (an impending) free agent.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In addition

"But we’ve completely changed our tune. We’re not interested in the year-to-year planning we’ve done in the past. While you’d like to add a bat to the lineup, we’re not going to add (an impending) free agent.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 8, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

109

“But we’ve completely changed our tune. We’re not interested in the year-to-year planning we’ve done in the past. While you’d like to add a bat to the lineup, we’re not going to add (an impending) free agent.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 8, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to play devil's advocate

"But we’ve completely changed our tune. We’re not interested in the year-to-year planning we’ve done in the past. While you’d like to add a bat to the lineup, we’re not going to add (an impending) free agent.

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blame this damn blog software

Not me ;)

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You did your job…

Where the relative merits of Joe Paterson and Daniel Otero are hashed out over knife fights and tea.

by RougeGorrila on Jul 9, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Sabean sending up a balloon?

Address the infield.

by wilriv21 on Jul 8, 2008 1:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

http://www.theinfield.com

Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!

by UnleashTheGore on Jul 8, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

personally, I prefer The Outfield

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 9, 2008 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sanchez for jack wilson!!

or, more seriously, some pitching (of the non lincecum, cain, sanchez, alderson, bumgarner variety) to take a chance on the oft injured Hank Blalock.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jul 8, 2008 1:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bocock and Blalock FTW!

Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!

by UnleashTheGore on Jul 8, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

when did Jack Wilson turn old?

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jul 8, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Passes age 30 this year!

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 8, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not THAT old, maybe...

but not that good either. OPS numbers in the .600s for the 05, 06, and 08 seasons.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jul 8, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i didn’t mean the comment snarky. i had just realized the day before that Wilson wasn’t a “young guy” prospect that could grow into a consistent OPS 800 guy at short, but rather an guy sneaking past his peak years but the still the subject of much trade talk.

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jul 9, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we should trade Grant for a fearless leader who can stay healthy. He’s the freakin’ Moises Alou of bloggers with a Zito-esque contract. Face it, this site is screwed, handcuffed and hamstrung for years to come.

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, really, Grant is always blowing a hammy when he tries to update the site. His days of being productive are long gone.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who’s this Hammy guy? Can he play 3rd base?

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh lord I laughed hard at that one.

Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.

by Andy from DC on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, don’t encourage the Goofus!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amazing, well done sir. I almost lost it in the middle of a meeting.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 9, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sell! Sell! Sell!

by Hobbes2d on Jul 8, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still want to see what Wilson would fetch

plus the other usual suspects (everyone not named Lincecum) .

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

YOU CAN’T TRADE WILSON, HE HAS SAVES! SAVES!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wilson Saves!

Jesus has got nuthin’ on him!

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think Jesus would walk less hitters?

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but they would walk on water.

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mostly tennis balls, some sticks.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 8, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shoes

Wilson is also the dog in the Southwest Airlines commercial who trashes the house while the owner is gone for the day. He seems to have a fondness for shoes.

2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!

by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

me, too

Contending teams probably looking for closers:

Tampa Bay (if the PRICE is right?)
Detroit (maybe, but they don’t have much left in the system)
Atlanta
Florida
Milwaukee (still got some nice prospects left)
Chicago White Sox (if Jenks goes down)

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 8, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs