Velez (Reportedly) on way back to SF
by allfrank on Jul 7, 2008 9:15 PM PDT
126 comments
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=22
He will be taking all 75, that is, yes, 75 ABs from Horwitz. 75 ABs, whether including walks or not or maybe it is 75 ABs and 75 chances in the field. At any rate, he is, reportedly, on his way back to town. Well, that is untrue in 75 ways; he is actually on his way to New 75 York. 75 New York 75.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I have no problem with Velez. Hopefully being demoted did him some good. If only he could play 3rd….or SS.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 7, 2008 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or LF, CF, RF, 1B, 2B, C, or P
Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading
by Chulk on Jul 7, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baggs reports the same thing
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/
Baggs is busy – also had (paid members) piece today on international signings
saying we should expect more – they have budget
by melottfan on Jul 7, 2008 9:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So now we have Velez, Durham, Burriss, Vizquel, and Denker all playing two positions?
I just realized that. Awesome.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 7, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Forget to check your media guide?
Velez is an outfielder this month.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 7, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAA?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2008 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he can’t play 2B. In fact I haven’t seen him look completely clueless in the outfield yet.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jul 8, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second Hobbes2d. Manny Burriss! clap clap clap clap clap
by Mr. Clutch on Jul 7, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever time I would like to see Manny AB rather than Vizquel I then get rushed back to reality when Manny plays defense like he did Sunday vs Bums.
by wilriv21 on Jul 7, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny can improve his defense. Omar’s not improving his hitting.
Only 884 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 7, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call him what?
Only 884 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 7, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a SS who needs to improve dramatically if he wants to stay in MLs
by wilriv21 on Jul 7, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we talking about Burriss or Omar?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 7, 2008 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s kinda hard to improve when you’re not playing.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 8, 2008 4:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I drove up for the weekend series, and Burriss’ play on Sunday was one of the b iggest disappointments. He wasn’t just flat, it was like he wasn’t into the game. 2 throwing errors in one inning (altho only one was scored), the really stupid base running mistake, and, in particular, less effort than almost any SS I have seen in trying to drive the runner leading of from 2b back to the bag. He just stood there. I would think, as a rookie, getting a chance, he’d be, if anything, over excitied, trying to do too much.
by allfrank on Jul 8, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t see Sunday’s game because I took a little trip to Atlantic City, (first time I’ve won in years!!) but it seems to me that 3 for 3 and a walk is a pretty nice game. Defensively he ain’t Omar, but he’s a kid and he’s going to get better. I’m just happy when I see his name in the lineup.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 8, 2008 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hits singles
And infield hits. That’s it. His speed also reduces him as a DP threat. Potential #1/2 hitter in my mind.
I think he can hit for a good average / OBP.
Probably no worse than Omar over his career, with a lot more SB’s.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm, 2 errors in one inning and a bad baserunning. Did Velez actually get called up on Sunday and we didn’t know it?
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jul 8, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s as likely to happen as the Giants re-signing Bonds.
by Natto on Jul 7, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know which is very unfortunate. They should DFA Vizquel. Demote Manny to AAA. Bring up Ochoa (who I was not in favor of promoting at all), and put Velez at 2nd. Also demote Denker and let him and Burriss get some development by playing every day in AAA.
Bring back Horwitz for a bench role. Put Matt Downs back at 3rd base in Fresno, so maybe he could be our starting 3rd baseman next season. And Castillo can move to 2nd, if Velez can’t stick there.
Also in between there somewhere would involve trading Durham and Winn somehow.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 7, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Frandsen in that plan for next year
But otherwise, not a bad idea, but you know Vizquel ain’t getting DFA’d. If we actually were good we could DFA him, but it would end his career on a bad note, which the Giants won’t let happen.
by giants9107 on Jul 7, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t forget Frandsen. I just don’t think Frandsen is any better than the other options we will have. Plus he’s going to be coming back from a pretty serious injury. At best he’s probably a bench player.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 7, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they could just decide not to resign him?
I understand that happens from time to time.
NL West TempestTeapot - An ENTIRE DIVISION under .500!
by victor frankenstein on Jul 7, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ivan "16 Errors in AAA" Ochoa?
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching and defense,
Speed and defense
THAT’S what wins ballgames. None of this “being a good hitter” nonsense.
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Jul 8, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good god, man!
You might be right about Omar, but you need to catch up on your Giants knowledge. Jesus hasn’t been on the roster since 1968.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Rosenthal is reporting Brewers interested in Taschner and Durham.
by wilriv21 on Jul 7, 2008 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, that would be too cool.. esp if we get some decent talent back.. even if we dont though, that would be too cool
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 7, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we’re not going to get “decent talent” back, I don’t think it’s cool at all. I can see clearing Durham out to make room for the young guys, but Taschner has value to us. If you’re implying that we have to give them Taschner for them to take Durham without getting value in return, I’d rather not do a deal. Durham’s contract expires this year, so it’s not like we’re dumping a long-term dead weight deal.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
why?
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 7, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Taschner has outpitched their entire bullpen
Durham, though. You would think they would want a better glove man, with the house of horrors that is the Milwaukee infield defense.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durhan is substantially better @ the plate
Than Weeks.
Like, A lot better.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn’t Weeks supposed to be a can’t miss superstar?? When is that going to happen?? And that’s why you will never see me on this board wanting to trade a proven player (Wilson, Cain, Lincecum) for some super prospect. This happens far too often.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 8, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weeks
Drafted #2 overall in 2003. I his 4th real year of ML service.
Career OPS? .749 This Season? .679
He struck out 116 times in 409 AB’s last season.
He is now 25 years old.
Yeah, I’m with you on that.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can suffice to say
That Weeks is worse than Jose Castillo.
Ouch.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Weeks for Durham and Taschner, though
Just saying.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 8, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't see what that accomplishes.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
low-risk opportunity to add talent to the team? it’s not a given that he’ll be good, but you have to try some things.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 8, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I am just saying
I would rather try something else.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just would really like to see the Giants do some buying low, it feels like as long as I’ve been a fan, they’ve done nothing but sell low.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 8, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buying crappy players != buying low
It is a tricky distinction, of course.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buying an extremely talented former top prospect while he’s struggling would indeed be buying low.
Like I said, there’s no guarantee he’ll regain his form but if the price is just something like Taschner/Durham (which I do have some doubts would be possible), I really just don’t see a reason not to give it a shot.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 8, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"While he is struggling"
Is one thing – but the guy has done nothing but struggle at the ML level for 4 years.
At some point it is no longer a struggle and just becomes not a very good player.
Castillo was also a very highly touted prospect at one time, too.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be doing such a better job of selling your point if you didn’t keep overstating things. He’s done nothing but struggle his whole major league career? Did I miss 2007, where he had a 108 OPS+ and tore it up in the second half?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 9, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh I give up :)
His “tearing it up” was essentially an insane jump in his walk rate, up nearly 5% from his career average and over twice his previous year. He still only slugged .433 last year for a total of 43 XBH, which basically made him the 2005 version of Dave Roberts + 8 HR.
He stopped swinging and started walking, a lot – I’m not sure if that is either sustainable (as this year is evidencing) or a valid predictor of future success as it is just as likely to be an outlier as his poor performance thus far this season has been.
You can’t tell me that his sub par performance this season is any less valid than his “quality” performance the last half of last season was. Both are similarly sized samples, and deviate similarly from his career average.
One or the other may be a true indicator – or they may both be flukes. In 2 out of 3 of those situations, the result is he isn’t a very good player.
Not great odds.
My underlying point is not that Rickie Weeks is the worst player ever – it is that, of all the positions on the field that we need to fill, 2b is probably the least devoid of in-house talent. We have some (very) limited trade value to exercise this season, and IMO it would be in our best interest to try to exchange that value for players at positions where we have black holes.
Because, while there is a chance that Weeks turns out to be better than Velez/Denker/Frandsen/Burriss, there is also a significant change he doesn’t. In the latter case, trading for him becomes a waste.
If instead we trade for a player at a position that has less “competition”, then the chances of that player being “good enough” to be better than current options (Castillo/Void@SS/) are much higher, and as a result the chances of improving the team are much higher.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some might think Sabean was actually selling high. Marijuana is to blame for all sorts of stupid things.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reuniting him with his college teammate...
Freddie Lewis is no doubt just the ticket to revitalizing his ba.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jul 8, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging from this article
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/SPOO11KUJD.DTL
The GIants’ front office is something of a cheap date.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 8, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
[Spraying two spritzes of Binaca into mouth, putting on the clean shirt]
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 9, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and heading to the Olive Garden for a nice dinner.
by tyrannoman on Jul 9, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Sabean and the Giants organization were/are with you on that sentiment. This was one of the underlying reasons for giving up a draft pick for Michael Tucker when they didn’t have to. They’d rather spend the money on somebody proven than a draft pick.
Obviously the Giants don’t go to that extreme any more but I think they still hold this general sentiment.
Only 884 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 8, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you see Taschner last night?? Good riddance!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 9, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I already plan on bandwagoning the Brewers—-adding Sugarman and./or Taschner would only make it that much more fun!
by rotorueter on Jul 7, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There should be a fanshot about this.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2008 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A mjolnir?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Jul 8, 2008 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
UR DOIN IT RONG!
It’s especially not funny when you make that joke at Dan Ortmeier’s expense. You’re wasting a perfectly good bad joke!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2008 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a Fan Hammer
Not to be confused with Jan Hammer
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take them, please
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addition by subtraction, except...
...it’s actually subtraction by addition. Like the commutative property.
Velez the Thriller, Mk. II.
Over/under on how long it takes him to garner universal condemnation again?
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 8, 2008 5:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I say in his second game he gets picked off of first by a left handed pitcher. Universal Condemnation.
by paboperfecto on Jul 8, 2008 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather play Twister
nude
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. That wasn’t anywhere near as fun as you told me it would be. Also, I’m pretty sure you’re supposed to play Twister on a big plastic game sheet, not a big satin bed sheet. Also, I’m also pretty sure that wasn’t a regulation Twister spinner. Don’t they usually instruct you to put your hands on colors? Left Hand – Butt Cheek was more awkward than it needed to be.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 8, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather play nude twister with Heidi Klum and Molly Simms, if that’s on the table.
by tyrannoman on Jul 9, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was told there would be no math involved
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they would call up Leone, who not only stayed, but hit 2 homeruns last night. Doesn’t it appear that Bochy and Sabean are not on the same page?? Every move Sabean has made seems to favor the younger players, (which I like) but then they get up here and Bochy continues to play the veterans. I would be surprised if Bochy is around for the final year of his contract.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 8, 2008 6:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Velez is way younger than Leone.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was my point. I think if Bochy was making the decisions it would be Leone or even Scott McClain. Anyway, does anybody think that Velez being called up is a sign that something may be happening soon with Ray Durham?? Take him, Brewers, it puts you over the top!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 8, 2008 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh I see what you were gettin at
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um isn’t some sort of 25/40 man roster considerations? Velez is on it. Leone and McClain ain’t.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on Jul 8, 2008 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew Baggarly of the M-N said they still have a 40-man spot available.
The All-Father is now a Giant!
by EliminateMe on Jul 8, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For anyone interested, I posted Velez’s MLE’s on my site earlier this morning based on his half-season in Fresno.
League BA OBP SLG OPS AAA PCL .308 .371 .503 .874 MLB .283 .329 .428 .757
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll take it.
But, I think that might be a little optimistic – or did Bochy just pull the plug on him too early this season?
I am frankly more worried about him on the bases and in the field than at the plate. I always felt that he would get adjusted to ML pitching.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His BABIP
Failed his xBABIP by 20 points in the 127 PA’s he got in SF this season, so he was a bit unlucky but not dramatically so.
His BABIP in Fresno was a full 115 points higher – so that has got to make you wonder. Obviously, he is having a pretty easy time with MiL pitching this year – but is that because he has learned to take advantage of MiL pitching, or is it because he actually is solid at the plate and suffered a cold streak in his 127 PA’s at the ML level this season?
Probably somewhere in between. The fact remains that the guy was flat raking @ Fresno after being sent down so I really hope he can keep that up in SF.
Of course, that is assuming he plays.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His BABIP in Fresno was a full 115 points higher – so that has got to make you wonder.
I have his BABIP in AAA at .358 and his xBABIP at .360, so it’s right around where it should be. Mostly because he’s hitting a ton of LD’s in AAA right now.
Or did I get my numbers wrong?
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I have for BABIP
I don’t have MiL Ld% for xBABIP but it’s good to know that xBABIP and BABIP line up for him down there.
I think the guy can certainly mash, and combined w/ his speed he is an Xtra base machine. The question for me is really more in the field.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My post might have been unclear.
I mean his BABIP in Fresno is 115 points higher than it was in SF, not than his xBABIP.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mash
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
What do you think it means? I think it means he can hit for power.
Not home run power, but XB power.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he hits balls harder than most people think, so he’s got gap power. His speed helps his power numbers as well since the extra bases he takes show up as additional power.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He actually hits the ball very hard. He however hits a very low % of FB’s (25% in SF this year – not sure w/ Fresno) which IMO takes away from his HR potential.
He definitely seems to drill laser beams into the gaps (or, as luck would have it in SF thus far, right at people) with authority, tho.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference of opinion, then
I haven’t seen enough evidence to convince me that he can hit for power. Xanthan’s (excellent) Velez post on BCB translates his PCL performance to a ML SLG of .428, which to ME, doesn’t say “mash.”
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Velez can bootleg mash liquor?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/72199/uncle_jemimas_pure_mash_liquor/
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of my favorite Tracy Morgan moments of all time!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 8, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It turns out I FAIL, too. I just checked my link and the video was pulled.
Damn you copyright issues!
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the kind of line that would be great if he could play any sort of defense.
Velez has more power than we saw in his first go around.
Can he hit breaking pitches though?
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he can't hit breaking pitches
He will kill mistakes. He needs to learn how to take and/or fend off breaking pitches and wait for a mistake. It has been said that a MiL hitter that can hit fastballs (Bowker)
Plenty of very successful mistake hitters in the ML.
I think that line is why the Giants do still consider him a prospect and think there is hope. He’s the kinda player that could go from seemingly useless to awesome with just a little improvement in one or two areas.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s the kinda player that could go from seemingly useless to awesome with just a little improvement in one or two areas.
I like Velez as much as the next guy, but you could say that about most borderline players. That if they improved in just one or two areas - namely hitting and being able to catch a baseball for Velez - that they could be good players.
Velez has one tool, and one tool only, his speed. And he doesn’t even seem to use it well. Whether that’s more of an indictment on his true level of skill or development process, is still to be seen. But he’s 26-years-old and has a very tiny, maybe microscopic, room left to grow and develop.
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, he has two tools. Velez has a good arm. (Which he seems to use better than his speed at this point).
by tyrannoman on Jul 9, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arm:Five tools::Ringo:The Beatles.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Velez has more than one tool
He does hit the ball well. He hasn’t shown it at the ML level and maybe he never will, but the guy is no slouch at the plate.
Also, he is from the DR. That counts as a tool, right?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides when he nuked the SAL as a 24-year-old in ‘06, when has he ever really hit well? I guess you could argue that he’s done well in a mere 41 games this year in Fresno, but I get nervous over sample size issues.
And because of his age, he has very little room left to develop. I’d love to see Velez develop into something good, but he’s got some odds stacked against him. Odds that we shouldn’t just ignore because he’s OMG FAST and XCITING!
by xanthan on Jul 9, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur with the last paragraph.
He has hit well in Fresno this year and in the ML last year.
All small sample sizes, but for the most part his career is all one small sample.
What’s not dependent on sample size is that he can hit the ball hard. That is a skill he has – a “tool” some call it :) If he can utilize that tool or not is the big question.
And as you say, he is running out of time.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually like Ringo, he’s a good drummer. But as a songwriter he’s just….uhh.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 9, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did write that awesome Bond theme song, “Octopussy’s Garden.”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 9, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Octopus’s Garden is a great song >:(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 9, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That line would be good for a SS, or maybe a 2B, but Velez might not have the defense to play either position. If he’s creating marginal positives with his bat and stolen bases (that’s assuming he can steal them at a productive rate) but then is giving back -5 to -10 runs on defense, his overall value is pretty low.
He has to stick at an IF position because he doesn’t have the bat to play in the OF.
by xanthan on Jul 8, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s exactly why I think his ultimate upside is as a Chone Figgins clone. He can pick up 400 PA’s a year bouncing from 3B to 2B to LF to RF, spelling guys and being a late inning base stealing threat. I just don’t think he has the defense to stick anywhere else.
by tyrannoman on Jul 9, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I think his lack of defense prohibits him from being a utility man, because you’ve got to play those positions at least respectably or you won’t get the chance. Do you want Velez in a late game situation where defense might count?
I’m not sure he can play 3rd, he might be a below-to-hopefully-average 2B. So we’re looking at a guy that, at his best, will play 2B/OF. His bat doesn’t hold up for the OF and not to mention, the Giants have 100 better OF’s than Velez. How many teams carry a player for pinch-running? And he could very well be a bad basestealer.
I’d play Horwitz over Velez in the OF, and he’s a singles hitter.
by xanthan on Jul 9, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can live with his poor D
at one position or another for a night. If you bounce him around, he is less likely to hurt you with the glove in the long run. He can play third base on Tuesday, and chances are that he won’t kill you. If he plays third base seven days a week, chances are that he’ll kill you in the long run.
by tyrannoman on Jul 9, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't a question
that Velez has to improve at least two things to become a serviceable player. People will argue about his bat, but these two are a given:
His defense and his base running.
Baserunning should be a pretty easy one at some level (dude, just don’t bother trying to steal against lefties). Ultimately I believe that is the managers fault. If the guy can’t get good reads – it is the job of the manager to put the brakes on. Continuing to give him the green light when he is getting picked again and again is very poor game management.
Defense, I don’t know – seems that it is more mental for him that physical (play is at first, not home – Thats the SS’s ball, etc).
Sometimes, those things can be easy to fix. We will see with him. Like many players, he is absolutely overflowing with raw talent. I really hope the Giants can figure out a way to harness it.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can play third base on Tuesday, and chances are that he won’t kill you. If he plays third base seven days a week, chances are that he’ll kill you in the long run.
That is so completely wrong. He hurts you the exact same amount every game he’s out there – if anything, he’d hurt you less if he’s out there more because the experience would help him develop defensively.
I mean, let’s say we roll a die and if the number comes out 1-5, I give you 2 dollars. If it comes out 6, you give me 20. Just because you have a 80% chance of not losing does not mean you should take that bet.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Jul 9, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has 13 stolen base (and, ouch, nine caught stealings).
what in the hell. I don’t wanna see that stuff tonight.
If my head is full of white hairs by the end of this season.. I blame Brian Wilson. (I'm only 22, dammit!)
by GiNgiNxbOi on Jul 8, 2008 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
let's not forget
That is in the MiL where he may have been working on something specific and as such getting picked off an inordinate number of times.
Frankly, I think he should just chill out on stealing bases against LHP for now.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Pedro Feliz of base-stealing
I saw him in a couple of those Grizzly games.
His baserunning is still bad even when he isn’t stealing. I would set my expectations for improvement at the plate (as the Giants are done trying to remake him into a slap hitter), but continued hilarity on the basepaths.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ps.
this (FWF’s) comment is funny
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 8, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was chuckling as well. “I want you to go out there and get picked off every time you get on base. Yuo’ve been terrible in rundowns.”
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not exactly what I meant.
More like go out there and steal against LHP explicitly because you need to work on that.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 8, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda figgered, but it was the funny the way you typed it out.
“Velez, you need to work on getting picked off. There will come a time when you’re on first and we want to stay out of a double play, so we’ll ask you to get picked off.”
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 8, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t mind the caught stealings as much as the errors though. that one game where he threw home on a grounder instead of to first really pissed me off :D
If my head is full of white hairs by the end of this season.. I blame Brian Wilson. (I'm only 22, dammit!)
by GiNgiNxbOi on Jul 8, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really like Eugenio as an offense-first infielder. And speed can boost an infielder, range and all.
Then I keep remembering the way his minor managers treated him:
he played SS all one year, and then we signed Bocock, sent him to Augusta, and Eugenio DH’d the rest of the yr.
07, promoted to Defenders and makes the allstar team playing 2B. By the time allstar game is played, Eugenio is a regular outfielder, but still owns a 2B glove and plays there.
Guys who watch him play infield a long time…get fed up with watching it. Maybe some kind of infielders boot camp could solve these problems, I really don’t know
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by foothillsfan on Jul 8, 2008 11:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Rotoworld
When asked if he would get a chance to start games, Giants manager Bruce Bochy said “to be honest, no.” He’ll serve mostly as a pinch-runner and hitter in San Francisco.
HA!
by Natto on Jul 9, 2008 1:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Was going to make a fanpost about this, but since you brought it up...
I think this means bad things for Giants fans.
1) Velez needs regular ABs
2) If Velez is the pinch hitter/runner de jour, then what does that make Roberts when he comes back?
We were all pretty much hoping Roberts would take that role. Now it’s possible that he could just become a pinch hitter, but from the way Bochy is talking, I have a strong feeling that Roberts will become a 4 or 5 time a week starter.
Piss.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 9, 2008 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this pisses me off
I mean, we knew this would happen because Bochy will not play a player < 30 unless he has no other option, but it is even more frustrating to see him be so explicit about it.
If you are just going to use him as a PR/PH – then leave fuckin Horowitz up and wait for Roberts.
We wonder why guys like Velez haven’t learned the fundamentals – possibly because they have been moved around so much they don’t know wtf is going on.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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