Yesterday's game, Lincecum thoughts, Scalper lessons, etc.
First, a lesson for all would-be Giants game attenders:
I went to the game on Saturday after a long dry spell. A friend came up to the city and we walked over to the park and decided to buy from scalpers. After lengthy deliberations with an upstanding young fellow, we exchanged 80$ cash for two tickets in section 208. Now, this was not the first time I've bought tickets from a scalper and I've learned a few lessons along the way. I learned a new one Saturday night and I thought I would share it with you all. I'm sure you all know to check the date - these guys can be sneaky trying to sell you yesterday's game. But what this guy did was show us two tickets in section 208 - argue w/ us about the price, and then finally "give in". In the process what he did was switch the two in section 208 for one in 208 and one in 237.
We didn't notice until later (and it turned out to not be a problem, we just sat in 208 anyway) but the fucker sold us two individual tickets 'cause he didn't want to break up his pair for that price (he originally showed us the pair, for $100). Lesson learned, check the tickets (section, date, seat #'s) AGAIN as you are handing over cash.
So anyway - yesterday's game:
After having my guts torn out and pissed on by Bruce Bochy via. Tyler Walker on Saturday, I was pretty burnt out on Giants baseball. I haven't missed many games on either TV or radio this season, but I elected to skip out on the Dodger series because I just didn't think I could handle it. I made it about 1 hour.
I was over at the neighbors, talkin' S and drinking Jeager when I just had to check the score on my cellphone. 7-0? What? This is the Giants, right... I didn't accidentally click on the Red Sox v. Mariners or something? (As you may know, finding a score other than Red Sox or Yankees on MLB.com via cellphone is a daunting challenge in of itself).
And a Correia start, nonetheless? Alright, fuckit - I decided (with my jeager imbibing neighbors) to go in and watch the game.
Well, I'll admit - I did it. No sooner had we sat down and I had commented on how it was amazing Correia was 1 hitting the Dodgers - the wheels started to come off.
Between Jose Castillo trying to throw the runner out @ the 1st base coach and, well, Jose Castillo forgetting he was supposed to cover 1st on a bunt (You guys ripped Velez for being clueless out there...) I was about to pull my damn hair out. Not only were the Giants going to lose this fucking game - but Correia was having a excellent effort (for which he is long overdue) ripped out from under him by a little league infield.
I think Correia did a pretty good job, however - given that his defense gave the other team 2 or 3 (Omar probably should have gotten that one) extra outs. The fact that he didn't walk anyone, kept the ball in the yard, and was pitching to contact (with a goddamn 7 run lead that is what you are supposed to do) was great. I would like to figure out what his FIP for that game was. I like Kevin again.
I also like that Walker came out to pitch the 7th. He's a good pitcher, sometimes. He has been effective more than he has been ineffective - it's just that when he's bad - he's really bad.The Kent HR-in-any-other-part-of-the-yard flyball non withstanding, I think he had a good performance. I don't blame Walker for Saturday's disaster.
I also loved Wilson. I was a little nervous (I'm not going to lie) after Saturday's game that the impending implosion of Brian Wilson would coincide with the apparent implosion with the rest of the team. The fact that he then proceeded to retire the side in order w/ 14 pitches (10 of which were strikes, catching Berroa looking and Jones swinging) gave me a glimpse of what a dominant closer Wilson can be if he can get his walks down. Most players just can't hit his fastball: Paul Ozuna didn't even look like he even wanted to swing up there.
Lastly, I want to talk about Bruce Bochy and god damn Tyler Walker. Tyler Walker is about as bipolar of a pitcher as I have seen in a while. He is either pretty good, or REALLY bad. I think Ralph missed the point (imagine that) when he went on his 4 hour tirade yesterday in that the fuckup on Saturday's game was not pulling Lincecum (there are plenty of good reasons for that, altho I also think leaving him in would have been acceptable) but it was failing to pull Walker. Walker doesn't walk guys (very often, 3.19 BB/9). However, in order to accomplish this, I belive that when his control suffers he compensates by coming into the zone w/ meatballs.
That's good - I prefer that to walking guys any day. Meatballs go for outs infinitely more often than walks do. However - when Walker gives up hits (especially line drives) it is a clear indication that he is not locating his out pitches the way he wants to, and is compensating by coming into the zone w/ fastballs.
If it's a close game, that is NOT GOOD. GET HIM THE FUCK OUT OF THERE. Give him a slap on that prodigious ass and say "you don't have your best stuff today kid, it's okay - we'll get 'em tomorrow" and send him back to the bench.
Leaving him out there after a leadoff double (of the line drive variety) and then a defensive fuckup (oh Bowker, could you please pick a less meaningful time to remind us you haven't ever played first base before?) is essentially garaunteeing the outcome that we got.
Is it too much to ask for Bochy to understand this about his pitcher, and to warm someone up WITH him in close games? If Walker goes out there, struggles in the count, and gives up a leadoff line drive - it's probably a good idea to put Hinshaw/Romo/Matos/Espinelli/ etc out to clean things up.
One last thing: Has anyone else noticed that Lincecum throws the ball about 100 miles an hour on his pickoff moves? I appreciate that you want to get the guy out - but Tim, If he's picked off, he's picked off - and getting the ball there a split second faster isn't likely to make much difference. However, when you throw a 100 mph sinking fastball in the dirt to first, it makes it much more difficult on your converted RF first baseman than is probably necessary.
So, please share nuggets of wisdom re: Scalpers, hatred for Jose Castillo's defense @ 2nd, celebration of Correia, Manlove for Brian Wilson, and most of all - frustration and dissapointment in Bochy's mismanagement of our limited bullpen assets.
75 75 75.
Whew. My fingers are tired.
Oh yeah, Casey Blake: You're a tool. In the National League, when you swing at a pitch and miss - that's called a strike. Get used to it.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
1 recs |
59 comments
Comments
I was overjoyed when Blake got tossed last night
What really steamed me last night was that Bochy didn’t even have anyone up in the ‘pen until it was like 7-5. That is simply inexcusable. He’s a boulder-skulled halfwit.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
I forgot to touch on that.
Interesting point re: Blake;
Who would you rather have up w/ 2 out and a 1 run ballgame in the bottom of the 9th? Casey Blake (120 OPS+) or Paul Ozuna (68 OPS+)
Good job Blake! Way to get tossed and screw your team.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas
Scalpers are scum.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 29, 2008 8:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How So?
Buying someones unused season tickets below face – how does that translate to scum?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BECAUSE!
Capitalism is evil! God forbid the free market dictate prices!! One can only imagine the kind of chaos that would ensue if these people would be allowed to sell tickets they don’t want/can’t go to.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
Didn’t you just use a couple hundred words in your post explaining why they are scum?
They’re called scalpers not philanthorpists. Nevertheless, I don’t mind buying from them, I just think they are often rude for no good reason.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Jul 29, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The greater question
Why are Phil and Thor pissed?
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Jul 29, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not how I read it
He wrote that he got burned by a scalper.
If I get a horrible haircut, that doesn’t necessarily mean that all barbers are dicks—just that I should go to a different barber next time.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't cut your hair.
you’re in a band and all…
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Jul 29, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m rocking a pretty sweet mullet at the moment… Williamsburg, here I come!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru Dat
I think the honest and trustworthy scalpers are on 2nd and Townsend.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.
by Woody Wins on Jul 29, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They bought them as speculators, and speculation is not inherently good for any and every market.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 29, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
Tell that to wall street.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
arbitrage makes markets more efficient.
Scalpers are like taco trucks. THey can be a good deal, but you’ve got to give what you’re buying a little extra scrutiny.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 29, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"unused tickets"
Most scalpers don’t buy their tickets because they plan to use them, do they?
by sfgfan on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The buy them from people who initially planned to use them
I would never pay over face for a ticket. I will, however, pay under face for a ticket that would otherwise go unused.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a secondary market like any other secondary market.
Some are unethical (just like in primary markets, in case you haven’t noticed any economic headlines in the last several years), and some are ok. I don’t especially like their methods, but then again, I don’t especially like the methods of a lot of people in business, but still do biz with them.
Reselling tickets is an efficient way of getting tickets that would go to waste into the hands of people who would like to use them. That transfer is a service of some value, and that value should be paid for (in the case of ticket scalping, the initial owner takes a lower than market price for them in exchange for the convenience of not having to deal with the tix any further; the eventual buyer pays what the market will bear, which is sometimes more than other alternatives if only that person had access to those other alternatives).
What’s the big deal? It’s better that those seats sit empty and the original ticket buyer has to eat 100% of that ticket price? That’s more “pure”?
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently some feel that way?
Beats me.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scalpers aren't playing the game the right way
They should be more gritty and gamery
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should scalp the right way. That’s the problem with today’s scalpers, they don’t do the little things that matter, like wearing eyeblack and running into walls.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see any dirt on their authentic jerseys.
by Nellieball on Jul 29, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
scalped tickets are great ;) but I mostly get bleacher tickets. they’re like 10 bucks a piece, and it doesn’t really matter what section you get, cause nobody cares about bleacher seats for some reason… can’t tell you how many times i’ve gone to a game w/bleacher tickets and someone’s sitting in our row & section. So I just don’t care anymore, sit where you like. crap. i’d like to talk more but i gotta go. :D
If my head is full of white hairs by the end of this season.. I blame Brian Wilson. (I'm only 22, dammit!)
by GiNgiNxbOi on Jul 29, 2008 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Manlove for Wilson!!
Jeez he throws hard, I dont know if the radar gun was accurate, but at one point it got up to 101 mph. Keep in mind, I live in LA (enemy territory) and I usually do not get to watch the gigantes. Hopefully we will be good by 2010 so Ill have a reason to buy mlb extra innings.
On a side note, the Yankees must be desperate for a catcher. Reunite the Molina brothers, get er done Sabes. Well even throw in Randy. haha
by krazybalr on Jul 29, 2008 9:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Same thing happened to me
..... at a Phillies game
please dont hurt me
I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..
by lmaozedong on Jul 29, 2008 9:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blake swung, but..
Greg Gibson..god, I hate that guy. What a smarmy, arrogant little prick.
by Bitter Fan on Jul 29, 2008 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
asst reactions
I definitely agree about Corriea. It’s a lot harder to get 6 outs.
Ralph is completely off the rails about Lincecum.
We now know the answer to the question as to whether Castillo can play 2nd any better than 3rd.
The thing that irked me about Bochy last night was that he only used Hinshaw for 1 batter in a game where the bullpen had to come in early. Do we really need the platoon advantage to get Angel Effing Berroa out?
Casey Blake, welcome to L.A. You fit right in. And your tears taste delicious.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 29, 2008 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The thing that irked me about Bochy last night was that he only used Hinshaw for 1 batter in a game where the bullpen had to come in early. Do we really need the platoon advantage to get Angel Effing Berroa out?
Yes. This. Not only was it Angel Berroa, but it was Alex Hinshaw. Hinshaw has been pretty darn good in the majors this year. Why the heck couldn’t Bochy manage like that with Tyler Walker? That’s a guy that should get pulled after one batter if he doesn’t have it.
Only 868 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 29, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
!. Correia is a great back of the rotation guy. He won’t command a ton of money and he can be fairly dominant.
2. I, too, missed the bottom of the 1st until right before the meltdown last night. I turned on the TV after going to downtown walnut creek and saw 7-0. I naturally started poking fun at my LA-native roommate. Then I’m pretty sure the Little Giants came out to play defense because I saw a defensive abortion on the field. Luckily we held on.
3. Walker is totally bipolar with runs, just once i’d like to see him have a meltdown and just give up 1 run to lower our lead by 2 runs. Not 7 and the opposing team starts sending out gramma because it’s been her lifelong dream to hit one out of the park.
4. I’m glad Casey Blake took his douche regimen with jeff kent. It’s hard to let Kent violate your ass while singing the canadian national anthem and giving a handjob to Lasorda. It’s like treasure hunting with all the fat and suck built up around his body.
3. Joe Castle is as advertised. crappy scrappy GIDP.
18. Lincecum could use different pick off moves. I had several as well. But you are right that if he throws any harder he might “pick off the first baseman”.
7. Bochy doesn’t make the est decisions out there and wit hthis crew that we plan on having I really wish we would have gotten Manny Acta. Oh well, at least he isn’t falling asleep?
-4. Amy G looked good with glasses on, she needs to wear them more often.
by Giant Voodoo on Jul 29, 2008 10:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
-4. Amy G looked good with glasses on, she needs to wear them more often.
This was a topic of conversation with my buddies. We agreed the Eiffel tower could potentially be in effect.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BVCE, your thoughts?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casey Blake looked like a 11 year old, only child, on the traveling team with $1K worth of gear, spoiled brat, Dodger last night. (OK OK, I’ll admit there were ONE OR TWO of these little pricks on my son’s all star team this year and I am channeling the resentment they caused me at Casey Blake, but fuck him, he’s a Dodger now.)
But Castillo? FUCK. It is funny though that this morning I reviewed the Game Day thread from last night that he was getting some love when he drove in runs in the 4th. Funny, cause I knew already what he was going to do later.
Bully for Kevin Correia!! I love that he did that vs. the Dodgers. I mean I hope he has turned a corner and will be dialed for a while, but even if it is only for one night then I am very happy for him.
by toofruss on Jul 29, 2008 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post, FF
I have to admit I missed most of the weekend series against the Douchebags and missed ALL of the abomination which was Saturday night’s late innings. Thank goodness, because this team has already taken years off my life.
But I have to comment about Ralph’s Lincecum rant yesterday, which might have pushed me from “I endure listening to KNBR because I need sports talk to occupy my ears while driving” right into “Ralph Barbieri Needs to Die in a Fire Right Now”.
First off, Ralph completely missed the point, which is that whether Timmy could have/should have come out to pitch the 8th has more determining factors than “he’s pitching one of the greatest games in Giants history” (as Ralph put it…a debatable point at best for a game played by a 4th-place team on July 26). No, it was largely a function of Big Head Bochy’s horrific mishandling of Lincecum in the previous start—you know, when he took a guy coming off a bout with the flu and made him throw 121 pitches and an extra inning when everyone on this board knew he was gassed. So Bochy’s at least partially responsible for whether Timmy could continue.
Second, as Dave Flemming said in defending himself from Ralph’s caustic rant, what are the Giants supposed to do, run every starter out there for 8 innings and hope they have a lead for Brian Wilson in the 9th? We’re already talking about protecting Lincecum from throwing too many innings this season, and now they’re supposed to keep him in for a few extra pitches because they have no faith in Tyler Walker? Guess what, the problem then is Tyler Walker and/or Bochy not quick enough to give him the hook (as Fairweather points out, why not have someone else warming up in case Walker doesn’t have it?).
I’m sure I would have been apoplectic on Saturday if I watched/listened to the game and experienced Lincecum’s gem wasted because our bullpen can’t hold leads. But if you want to see this kid pitch another 5, 10 or 15 years, you use a certain amount of precaution and you look at the bigger picture. The Giants are not in contention this year. Blowing a game to the division leaders sucks, but it’s not, as Ralph implied, the moral equivalent of the My Lai massacre.
And by the way, I know I’m the one with the problem and should just listen to NPR or jazz and lower my blood pressure.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Jul 29, 2008 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One of the big problems with Ralph right now is that Tom is gone. Both are pretty awful when they’re without the other, but Tom does a good job of shutting Ralph up and Ralph does a good job of keeping Tom intelligible… which makes them perfectly sufferable to listen to.
I agree, as well, Ralph was completely off-base yesterday, and was impossible to listen to.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Ralph has been pretty naive and out to lunch on this whole “gang signs” thing, too. I do enjoy their show typically, but he has been kinda annoying lately.
Mostly I just listen these last few days for the callers and or guests who make him sound dumb. Dave Flemming was even getting into it w/ him on the face off – and rightly so. Ralph clearly understands very little about the finer points of baseball.
I listen to way too much KNBR because, frankly, It’s better than the crap on TV. I enjoy all of the hosts but they all tend to get on these rants that are just completely stupid now and then.
In some ways, I applaud Ralph for this one only because I share his general sense of frustration w/ the Giants and Bochy. We have different reasons, but the end goal is the same. When I bitch about it on a msg board no one cares, but at least when he makes a huge stink on 50,000 watts – people listen.
If I could just convince him that the real problem was not pulling Lincecum, but failing to understand how to use Walker effectively things would be great.
And his assertion that Wilson is the only one in the bullpen you can count on is asinine. I have Manlove for Brian Wilson, but I have faith in Hinshaw and Romo to not let the situation get out of control, either. (Probably more so than I do Wilson to throw a 6 out save)
Wait a second – given the apparent unrestrained love for Tim Lincecum Ralph exhibited, has anyone seen him and Sharksrog in the same place?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Dave Fleming made alph sound pretty dumb. I want Fleming to be our new assistant GM.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i <3 this
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 29, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd definitely listen more
if it were the “ALF & Mr. T Show“
by Jakespaar on Jul 29, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“I pity da foo who eats my cat.”
“Aw, you don’t mean that, big guy!”
by Natto on Jul 29, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a roll today...
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kate: Don’t break that remote.
ALF: Kate, have I ever broken anything?
[Kate stares at him]
ALF: Well, lately?
[pause]
ALF: This week?
[pause]
ALF: Today?
[pause]
ALF: Since breakfast?
by Jakespaar on Jul 29, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ralph was completely off-base yesterday, and was impossible to listen to.
as opposed to every other day, where listening to him is just excruciating.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand how the whiny voice, 150 word questions, lack of general knowledge, or the constant self promotion could possibly be a turn-off for ANYone.
by toofruss on Jul 29, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy's Smart Use of the Pen
For maybe the first time in 2 years, Bochy used the pen wisely last night, at least after the 6th. Instead of waiting for the 8th to use Walker he used him with 3 righties coming up and Walker is murder on righties (.180/.520 OPS) and awful against lefties (.365/1.145). Then in the 8th with 2 lefties coming up he went with Taschner (.185/.503 on lefties; .290/.831 on righties). While these splits get overblown a lot and changing pitchers within an inning just for righty-lefty reasons often leads to big innings, I think it would be wise to use Walker almost exclusively against righties for the rest of the season, regardless of whether its the 6th, 7th or 8th. Of course, it gets more complicated towards the bottom of the line-up where they can pinch-hit to throw this plan off.
by mark30perq3 on Jul 29, 2008 11:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Other than the Hinshaw cameo, I’d agree with you.
by Natto on Jul 29, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that didn't really bother me
I don’t buy into the whole matchup thingie, but i was cool with the quick hook on Alex Omar.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree less w/ the quick hook
Than I do w/ using him in the first place. In a close game, yanking someone who shows a lack of control (IE, doesn’t have it today) I am okay with. (aforementioned: Tyler Walker). You can’t afford, in a 1 run game (well I guess it was 2 runs at that point), to let Hinshaw see if he can find the strike zone. If he doesn’t come out throwing strikes – not his day.
But that was not Bochy’s motivation. I would rather see him just use Romo for the whole inning.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
s'a good point
unless the splits are really pronounces (i have no idea what they are), then just bring out the Stache.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 29, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering how the bar codes on tickets are so often voided (when donated, sold through DPW or forwarded through ticket relay), I would NEVER trust a scalper with my money.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sucking at replies again, I see.
I’ve never had a problem w/ a scalped ticket.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 29, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was replying to you inital post
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on Jul 29, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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