little talk about bumgarner
by Azmanz on Jul 28, 2008 10:37 PM PDT
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Printover at theprospectcorner.blogspot.com:
"So if Bumgarner compares well to guys like Ankiel and Liriano, what can we expect from him in the future? Each of the 3 pitchers in the comparison chart went on to maintain their A ball stats through AAA, and made their first MLB appearance by the age of 21. Ankiel posted an ERA of 3.50 at the age of 20, Liriano had an ERA of 2.16 at 22, and Sabathia had an ERA of 3.60 at 22. If we apply the same trends to Bumgarner, we can expect him to debut with the Giants by 2011, and post an ERA in the 3.00-3.50 range by 2012."
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I certainly hope he won’t end up like Ankiel and Liriano… although we could get a power hitting CF out of it.
I had no idea that action required a precursor.
Arizona thinks we're Washington which thinks we're Arizona.
by victor frankenstein on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
your right id doesn't
and i also don’t see how it would be much of a motivation to wilson but i’ll do it anyway
I don't think you could say Liriano's "ended up" yet
He’s still only 24 and simply destroying AAA in a way that suggests he’s fully recovered from the surgery. If he hadn’t already had his sensational rookie year he might well be considered the best pitching prospect in the game at this point. I’d still guess he’s got multiple All Star games and Cy Young votes waiting in his future.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
he has lost velocity, though
It may well come back, but it may not.
That said, he may be the worst trade throwin I can remember in a while.
What?
A pitcher plagued by injuries since his professional career start some 6-7 years ago, was supposedly healthy this season before getting injured again, is going to have multiple All-Star games and Cy Young votes in his future?
I cannot recall one pitcher who has overcome an early (and often) history of injuries and physical problems to come back and be a multiple All-Star. I can recall one pitcher who has overcome early and often physical problems to have a long career. I guess he could be the first, but really, a pitcher with arm problems isn’t going to magically get healthy, as it is his arm that he uses extensively to pitch. I think he’s also had shoulder problems as well. Not a good recipe for long-term success.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 29, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Liriano didn’t get injured again this year. The first time he’d pitched in a year and half was in ST and they wisely tried to ease him into the season. He started slowly (as someone recovering from surgery is apt to do) but has gotten his velocity and even the hard bite on the slider back much quicker than one might have suspected.
As for your other statement, drawing such comparisons is difficult in large part because for most of baseball history careers were ended by injuries that might not call for a year’s rehab today (as for instance, living in Boston in the mid-80s, I remember quite well, the Sox team surgeon saying that had Roger Clemens been born twenty years earlier, his career would never have advanced beyond the shoulder surgery that ended his age 22 season in 1985. The next year of course, when he was 23 he came back and won both the Cy Young and MVP).
But one decent comp might be Jim Palmer who made the majors at 19, was moved into the rotation at 20 (becoming the youngest pitcher ever to throw a shutout in the World Series) and then missed the vast majority of this age 21 season and all of his age 22 season with elbow problems. He later missed a good chunk of the season in about his age 27 year, and spent most of his 30s frequently being sidelined by arm, shoulder, and back problems. Despite this he managed to have a fairly lengthy and certainly successful career.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
First post here, still trying to figure everything out
hopefully he ends up more along the lines of Sabathia then the other two
by hornetpowerjd12 on Jul 28, 2008 10:51 PM PDT reply actions
Liriano, Ankiel, Sabathia… That reminds me of an old song they play on Sesame Street all the time. It goes something like “Three of these things are not like the others…”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
Talented no doubt
But he’s still an 18 year old in Low-A ball – lets wait a bit to annoint him, shall we?
And hey, Bumgardner is great, but Hayward may have been just that little bit better. ;)
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
if we’re going to say “time will tell” on one, why not both ;)
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2008 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
0-3 with a K last night
Small sample size FTW!
by AngelWillSaveUs on Jul 29, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
It would impress me more if it wasn’t Lower A. Its better than expected but there’s lots of guys who have low walk rates in the SAL this year.
Party pooper
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Cain walked his share in the SAL
..and that was the last Giants pitcher with velocity carving up the Sallie League at age 18. Yes, Cain walked fewer than he would in double-A and beyond, but nowhere near as few as Bumgarner does now. I’d say the betting money now has Bumgarner, barring injury or flameout, managing to avoid the walksies that have at time plagued Cain’s and other careers.
he is the youngest starting pitcher in the SAL
so the fact that it is “only” Low A ball shouldn’t keep you from being impressed
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn’t say I wasn’t impressed, just that it would be MORE impressive if it wasn’t Lower A. Where there’s a lot of really bad hitters.
I would be more impressed with Barry Bonds if he would have hit 74 homeruns in 2001
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
The SAL is a pretty extreme pitchers league – league OPS of .701.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
unforunate
i thought this was a thread about hamburgers :*(
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
thanks guys
stole it from OptionZero at ye olde sfdugout boards
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
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