with soy milk. kthx.

Also, I fear the latter but secretly hope against hope for the former.

lots of sugar.
Please.

im scared we are in #2..

if we do trade bengie, does pablo get a call up? who hits clean up?
if we do trade winn with nate in the olympics.. does bowker go to the OF and we bring up TI? i like this scenario, except against lefties

Vente Drip – Black and make sure that you leave about an eighth of an inch between the coffee and the rim, and make sure the hole in the lid is on the opposite side of the cup from the seam, I’m wearing a white shirt today OKAY!!! Let me know how much I have left on this card will you?

If it is #2 (coincidence?) I feel the fear is unfounded. What will turn fans away is the type of shit we had here on Saturday night!!!!! I was not in the Boulder-Head hater camp until then, but I feel that I must invest in the t-shirt now.

Let me see if I can do a quick mockup of the plan approaching the trade deadline:

1. Listen to all offers
2. Flatly reject any offer for Molina and/or Winn
3. If someone wants Aurilia, Tasch, etc. it’s going to be for a HOHJTTG player. Negotiations not necessary.

It’s hard to imagine the Giants really believe any of their fans come to see Winn and/or Molina specifically, but perhaps that’s giving far too much credit to the brain trust.

Regarding ticket sales, they’re actually remarkably stable considering the team’s record, especially at home. They’re still on pace to draw just below 3 million, no? Or is that because of the deal they foisted on season ticket holders last year. Didn’t you have to buy tix for ‘08 to get ‘07 season tickets and ASG tickets? Maybe the Giants are worried that without the 50 year anniversary promotions, a roster full of youngsters, and no obligated ST-holders, they’ll only draw 1.5 million in 2009. Seems a bit alarmist of a prediction, though.

I think it’s #1 with Winn for sure, because we do have a capable replacement.

For Bengie, it’s #2. As you mention, the gap between Bengie and who we have to replace him is too wide for them to part with. I also think they consider Bengie valuable to help bring the young pitchers along.

My guess is that Winn and Aurilia are gone by the deadline, Bengie stays.

but I think it’s more like 1.5. It seems to me that the Giants are actually trying to move Winn but not going to move Bengie unless an absolutely ridiculous offer comes in. I don’t see either actually being moved, unless we pay a large portion of Winn’s contract because no one really wants him due to his lack of power.

As for Richie/Tash/Anyone over 30 I say HOHJTTG all the way.

I think it’s a hybrid of #2, that the Giants don’t believe that Winn and Molina should be on the market because they are so valuable to the Giants. In fact, I think Sabean himself is extremely high on Molina because last year he essentially called him the team MVP even though Bonds’ offensive numbers dwarfed everyone else.

I’m counting it as poor evaluation.

Sorry, I fell asleep while reading your post.

Hanging onto benji unless absolutely bowled over is the wise play. Pablo isnt ready this year and there still isnt any reason to believe he is going to be a fulltime catcher for us. Keeping Benji and allowing Pablo to spell him and platoon at 1st during his eventual call-up makes the most sense. Then depending on what we see, a trade in the off season.

Randy has to go. I dont particular hate Winn, but it just doesnt make sense to keep a guy who at least has a chance of being a league average power corner outfielder in AAA when we clearly need a power upgrade in the worst way. Im not sold on Nate making a solid transition, but I was also bullish on Lewis and have been proven wrong thus far. Even if we have to eat half his salary, dealing winn shouldbe the right play.

Aurilia … take care partner.

Seriously, to lose 110 games, the Giants would have to go 9-49 (.155 winning %) the rest of the way. You could switch their roster with that of the Connecticut Defenders and I have to believe they would still end up better than that.

And even to lose 100 games, the Giants would have to go 19-39 (.328 winning ), which is a WHOLE LOT worse than their current .413 W.

To me, this is all about making sure we’re in a good spot next year. The way to do that is not to keep Winn and Molina. The way to do that is to a) get the kids some experience, and b) find out which kids are worth playing. If you can increase your quantity of kids by casting off veterans, now is the time to do it.

But here’s something that’s bothering me that I haven’t seen talked about: Fred Lewis is obviously at least somewhat for real. He’s proven that this year. So if his bunions really are a problem that only surgery can cure, with something like an 8-month recovery time, why the hell even play him for the rest of this season? Seriously, does it make any sense to not do the surgery now? It’s not like they’re playing for a pennant. On the other hand, if they’re NOT a big deal, then why play Roberts instead? Personally, I think that they are just gaming things a bit in order to “showcase” Roberts right now, but if it really is a medical concern, they should get Lewis the surgery right away so he can be on schedule come next season. I mean, if this is the Lewis that plays with bunions, imagine what a bunion-free Lewis could be!

Bengie gets traded this week, does that help/hinder/have no effect on the Giants and their negotiations with Buster Posey? I’d kinda think it might give Posey extra leverage, although I suppose he’s already named his price and isn’t about to raise it…

What could we reasonably get back for Molina? Unless we get back a legit prospect I don’t see the point. Winn, yes … Let’s see Nate, but Benji better bring back something good.

And as for losing enough games to get a high pick, well, we’ve already finished playing the Nationals, so that’s taken care of.

I like my coffee like I like my men; strong and dark.

Wait what are we talking about?

“What is this “Trade Deadline” you speak of?”
Giants management

I still think there should be a way for the Giants to be able to trade Bonds.

Someone is bound to fall for it (I’m looking at you, Ned Coletti).

September 6 vs. Pittsburgh – 6:05 PM

Bengie Molina Bobblehead giveaway

It depends on whether the Giants believe that the .726 OPS Winn currently carries represent his net future value or the .766 career OPS or .798 OPS he has compiled as a Giants player. If you think he is done (the .726 OPS), then you try to dump him now, throwing cash out and playing Schierholtz. Think of it this way, nobody thought of this earlier in the season when he was hitting better, only when he has been slumping recently, and yet the only real difference between then and now is that Winn is slumping right now. Unless you think he suddenly lost it, there is no reason to think he’s not still the roughly .800 OPS hitter he has been for us the past few years. And if you think it’s the .798 OPS, then you hold onto Winn because of his better defense and veteran experience, because then he has Nate beat on three counts, offensive, defensive, and intangible leadership.

BTW, that is the trade scenario that Ted Robinson discussed while on Ralph’s and Tom’s show the other day when he suggested that Winn was horribly overpaid since we could get equivalent production by playing Schierholtz (nevermind the fact that players of his offensive abilties are getting that much and more – hello Gary Mathews Jr. – on the open free agent market). He admonished the Giants for not trading Winn when we got an equivalent or better player (and much younger and cheaper) sitting in AAA.

It also depends on whether you believe that Schierholtz is actually the .778 MLE OPS from this season or the .787 MLE OPS is his 2007 suggests, or if the holes in his swing that scouts and observers have noted about him would expose him in the majors as a AAAA hitter, much like Todd Linden’s 2005 .904 MLE OPS didn’t really portend anything close to that in the majors. That MLE hasn’t really materialized yet, has it?

Not to jinx him, but MLE is not a guarantee, it is an approximation that, while nice for giving you a ballpark estimate of his MLB abilities, is still only a very rough estimate, with a wide bell curve, and sometimes your prospect falls behind the curve, much like the Cards discovered recently with Anthony Reyes, who was their Tim Linceucm/Matt Cain a couple of years ago, but they just recently gave up and traded him away for nothing much, at least I didn’t recognize the name.

I love Nate, else I wouldn’t quote him in my sig, and wish him well, but as good as he is hitting, he is only 29th in OPS in the PCL. Unless you think there are going to be 30 players coming up from the PCL over the next year and not only start but hit nearly .800 OPS as a regular starter, you have to admit that there are many of these players out of that 30 who are going to eventually go to the majors and majorly suck. If you know that Nate is not going to be one of them, then you deserve a job as a fortune teller, because there isn’t anybody who knows that for certain, there are levels of belief and possibilities.

It also depends regarding the Giants deadline plans. Typically, Sabean and the Giants pronouncements are much like Horton The Elephant, “he says what he means, he means what he says,” and what he last said was that the team is in transition and they are listening to offers for any veterans. Now, how much they accept in trade is another question, but A.J. notwithstanding, the Sabean regime has been pretty good when trading with other teams, we tend to come out ahead of the deal, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot. Even in the cases of the names Grant notes, most of the time, the other team didn’t get much either.

I think that no team will wow the Giants for Molina, which is what that would take because we have nobody who can take over right now, unless we get their lame-o catcher back in return – and at least get a good enough defensive catcher – along with a good prospect. In this case, getting their catcher would clear the way towards the other team being OK taking on Molina’s 2009 contract. I think it would take the loss of the starting catcher for the season while leading the division to get the team to be that desperate for Molina, but then you don’t get the lame-o catcher in return, so that’s a catch-22. So losing Molina is unlikely in my opinion.

I think Aurilia will probably be gone after the trade deadline, because he can still hit well (road OPS .791; 34 AB/HR or about 20 HR in 680 AB season, good HR power; mashes lefties with .893 OPS) and can play 1B, 3B adequately and SS, 2B in a pinch, can come off the bench for power and driving in RISP. His contract is also pocket change at that point.

After because he’s not a difference maker – Durham can make a huge difference if he continues to hit well while Weeks sucks – since he can’t hit RHP that well and not great defensively, so a team would want to acquire him to help them get over the top as the season nears ending and it is clearer what the team’s chances are for winning it all. He may or may not make the playoff roster (not if after August 31st), again because he’s not a difference maker UNLESS the other team lost a starter for the season and has no adequate replacement. He could be a supplemental acquisition, like how we picked up Bill Mueller one September past.

Winn is not a difference maker either, but is much more valuable than Aurilia because he hits so consistently throughout his career and plays good defense at all three OF positions. He would also represent speed off the bench, along with a touch of double-digit power. Given his 2009 contract, I think it would again take a situation like I described above for Molina for Winn to be traded. He’s a nice player, a complementary player, and it would probably take an injury to an OF late in the season where the team still has a good chance to get into the playoffs for a team to be desperate enough to trade for a Winn now, plus perhaps the chance of losing an OF as a free agent. Otherwise, I don’t see another team taking on Winn’s contract until the off-season and the musical chairs music ends, and a team finds that they need to get a decent OF in trade. I think we can probably get a failed prospect, much like we got for Durham, plus a prospect with flawed but decent potential (probably a lot of speed too), again much like Durham’s trade.

Front office is deep in #2 mode. So careful which way the wind is blowing. I just hope they don’t add to the pile soon. Its mostly a forlorn hope.

Just black on the coffee please. I can always get tea if want something weaker. Perhaps I can trade it for some Rule 5 infielder to use next season? Please ?

anyone explain the rule 5 draft for me?

Winn has been a solid player for the Giants, but I must say, I’ve never really been a fan. I wasn’t a fan of trading for him in 2005, because I thought trading for veterans was the wrong thing to do for a team that wasn’t really in contention. Waste of resources and that. I wasn’t a fan of re-signing him after 2006 because I thought they substantially overpaid them on the basis of a fluke hot stretch after the trade. The only justification for the contract was that he was a center fielder, and thus more valuable, and then the Giants decided he wasn’t a center fielder, and went out and overpaid two MORE center fielders in two seasons.

I do think he has some value. He’s a solid, reliable player who brings a good OBP to the top of your lineup, and he can play all three outfield positions. That he’s a starting corner outfielder and a #3 hitter for us is pretty much a joke, but he could be a very useful cog for the right team. They won’t get a top prospect for him, but I do believe they could get more return than they got for Durham. If so, why not trade him? Move Bowker to the outfield and give Ishikawa a shot to show he can hit at the major league level. We’re not contenders now, we probably won’t be next year, and even if we are, Randy Winn won’t make the difference between us winning a pennant and losing a pennant – so even if the guy who gets Winn’s playing time is a flop, and even if whomever we get in return in a trade doesn’t pan out, what do we have to lose, really? Exploring trade options with your veterans and giving young players a chance to prove themselves is what rebuilding years are SUPPOSED to be about. Sadly, the front office doesn’t seem to understand this.

It’s possible the Tigers are also in the mix for Tejada. They are among many teams scouting the Astros (the Nationals, Mets, Rangers, and Giants are others).

Hehe… #2