McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Phillies Beat Lowe, Dodgers Bar-right-arrows

Trade Bengie Now?

Harry_canary_tiny by delorean on

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/21/posada-could-be-out-for-the-season/

The URL says it all, of course. Not sure the Yankees need another catcher (and another Molina, no less!), but maybe? Just maybe?

* Disclaimer: I absolutely love Bengie, but he's not part of the next winning Giants team.

Oh, and just to stay on message, we should package Bengie with Brian Wilson, who will take the mantle from Mariano Rivera and become the next great Yankee closer.

Delusional? (The Molina part, not the Wilson part. I mostly just included that to upset FairweatherFan.)

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

1 recs | Comment 84 comments

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

YES, WILL TRADE.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 21, 2008 4:40 PM PDT   0 recs

NOT WILSON

But Molina, fuckit – why not?

Probably actually want something for him however as he will be able to help this team next year.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 4:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Can we trade Molina two months ago?

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 4:42 PM PDT   0 recs

yes please.

Proud father of Eric Surcamp! I sure hope we sign him.

by The Thrill on Jul 21, 2008 4:47 PM PDT   0 recs

Baseball America.com Top 10 Yankees prospects.

Yankees Prospects list.

MinorLeagueBall.com Top 20 Yankees Prospects.

by wilriv21 on Jul 21, 2008 4:49 PM PDT   0 recs

WE HAVE TO TRADE LINCECUM FIRST!!!11!

Without killing anyone
We've won it 3 times

by ChrisHero on Jul 21, 2008 4:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Trade Bengie Then

Unfortunately his trade value has got to have dropped quite a bit since June 1, considering his line since that time: .222/.248/.257

I’m all for trading him but it would have to be for a better package than what Durham brought, and I’m not sure we’re gonna get that.

The All-Father is now a Giant!

by EliminateMe on Jul 21, 2008 4:50 PM PDT   0 recs

I don’t get your logic here. Why would his trade value have dropped?? Everyone knows who Bengie Molina is and what he is capable of. Just because he was hot early it wouldn’t increase his trade value, because everyone knows he’s not a .330 hitter, and just because he’s cold now it won’t decrease his trade value. Everyone knows he hits better than this. It’s not like we’re talking about a kid that nobody knows anything about.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 21, 2008 6:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You're right, Mark

You’re right about Bengie’s being the same player whether he’s hitting .330 or .220, Mark, but when he’s hitting .330, some hope he has improved (as he did in reaching a career high in homers last season) or at least that they would be getting him in a hot year.

At .220, teams could worry that they’re getting him in a down year—or worse, that the end has begun for him.

by sharksrog on Jul 21, 2008 7:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You mean like “his clock is winding down”?

by giants9107 on Jul 21, 2008 7:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t have any fancy stats to back this up or anything, but does anyone else get the impression that Bengie hasn’t been the same since Posey was drafted and Sabeans comments? I mean sure he was bound to trend down, but still.

Am I crazy here?

by Nellieball on Jul 21, 2008 11:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like a Benny Hill chase scene as much as the next guy but Occam’s Razor would say …

Molinia has played in 82 of the Giants 98 games. A bit over 75% ( 687 out of 875 ) of the innings the Giants have logged. He has a history of declining offensive output when heavily played. The poor hitting of the last month plus would be a predictable function of this.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 8:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Because...

...a team trading for someone like Molina at the deadline is a team looking for help getting to the postseason in 2008. Molina having a career year is gonna help them more than Molina having a lousy year, even if he returns to form next season.

If I were a GM looking at Molina’s numbers, and the number of games he’s played, I’d be thinking that either he’s tired or he’s hurt. Neither of those is ideal for helping a team win now.

The All-Father is now a Giant!

by EliminateMe on Jul 22, 2008 2:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Who else is sellin' catchers?

Anyone?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 4:51 PM PDT   0 recs

I think the Rangers have a surplus, no? Also, there have been the Pudge rumors…

by BigO on Jul 21, 2008 4:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 4:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Sabean isn't going to trade Bengie

I’d be the second-most surprised person on earth if we actually traded Molina. I think it would be an okay idea to trade him for good value, but it’s just a near-guarantee that Sabean won’t do it. I believe he’s actually stated he’s not trading him.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jul 21, 2008 4:52 PM PDT   0 recs

There are two problems: first, as mentioned above, his value has likely plummeted as fast as his OPS the last two months. Holy terrible roster management, Bochyman!

Second: who exactly gets Molina’s playing time for the rest of the year? Rushing Sandoval is tempting but unwise. So….Notgardo? Holm? Gee, fun.

With that having been said, I’d trade him in a second. I’d trade almost anyone on our roster.

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 4:53 PM PDT   0 recs

NOTGARDO!!

ftw

I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..

by lmaozedong on Jul 21, 2008 5:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign me up. I have no problem with Holm-ing it up for the rest of the year.

by rotorueter on Jul 21, 2008 4:54 PM PDT   0 recs

I'd want something pretty nice in return for giving them Molina & Wilson.

I’m not against trading either one or even both in the same deal, but I want some combination of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, or Cano

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Jul 21, 2008 4:54 PM PDT   0 recs

and maybe if we include Yabu, they’ll throw in A-Rod and Chien Ming Wang

by rotorueter on Jul 21, 2008 4:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Uhhh

Its pretty obvious we wouldn’t receive any of those players.

by thethrill22 on Jul 22, 2008 8:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Molina & Wilson for Joba alone would be a complete steal.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 4:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cano for those two alone would be a huge steal

Basically anyone not named Kennedy for those two would be a huuuuuge steal, Kennedy is probably just a steal.

by iamawesomer on Jul 21, 2008 5:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This

I love Wilson and all, but…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously...

Yankees would laugh at this like we would at them offering Melky Cabrera for Lincecum.

by kingofthacove on Jul 21, 2008 6:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Let me put it this way

If you were trading Molina & Wilson, who would you want (and realistically expect) to get in return?

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Jul 21, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about

putting this guy at 1B, put Bowker in Left, put Lewis on the DL with his Bunion (oy…that’s gonna be murder on his feet and I’m expecting him to need surgery), trade Winn for something similar to the Durham deal, call up Nate to play RF and call it a day?

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Jul 21, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would do that in an instant. The Yankees wouldn’t though.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about packaging Molina and Winn to the mets. They need help in the outfield and neither of their catches look all that great. We’d probably have to pay for parts of their contracts though.

by superk1ng on Jul 21, 2008 4:59 PM PDT   0 recs

Guerrera

or martinez. but we ain’t getting either.

or that 1b. forgot his name. I’d take any of them but I doubt they’d give them up.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 21, 2008 5:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

mike carp

is who i think you are thinking of

waiting for 2011....

by Osama91w9 on Jul 21, 2008 8:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yes

and then we could call him MAGICARP!

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 21, 2008 10:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseaball America.com Mets Top 10.

MetsToday.com Mets Top Prospects.

MetsGeek.com Top 25 Prospects.

by wilriv21 on Jul 21, 2008 5:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think Molina and Winn would be enough to get all of them.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 5:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like the idea of trading people but once they get traded it’s really not that exciting. I was pumped up to trade Durham but now that we got a Ford and some guy from Vallejo (or Martinez) I’m totally bored. In other words I’m a sucker for Rumors and have fantasies about trading our old guys for something good but it will probably never happen.

Proud father of Eric Surcamp! I sure hope we sign him.

by The Thrill on Jul 21, 2008 6:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Why is everyone so big on trading Wilson?

Fact:

Wilson is young
Wilson is homegrown
Wilson is cheap
Wilson is effective (Except when the game’s not on the line)
Wilson is an All-Star
Wilson is part of the next great Giants team

DON’T TRADE HIM!!! IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE!!!

by Keenlow on Jul 21, 2008 8:06 PM PDT   0 recs

i agree

Proud father of Eric Surcamp! I sure hope we sign him.

by The Thrill on Jul 21, 2008 8:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s got pretty bad control problems and his value could be pumped up by his save totals. I’d move him in the right deal, no problem.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 21, 2008 9:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Anyone should be available for the “right deal” but what does that mean?

by Keenlow on Jul 22, 2008 10:14 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It means that he’s not untouchable like Lincecum or Cain. People have tried to hoist Wilson to those levels, he’s just not there yet.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wilson is a closer. Closers can be sold for a wayyy higher value than they’re worth because ‘saves’ look sexy on paper. Closers are replaceable. Not Joe Nathanish replaceable, but replaceable.

by i wish we were good on Jul 21, 2008 9:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

this

is what i’ve been trying to say.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 9:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you've

been saying it just fine

by Moggeee on Jul 22, 2008 12:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Except for the way those little balls of spit for in the corners of his mouth

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 22, 2008 9:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

Proud father of Eric Surcamp! I sure hope we sign him.

by The Thrill on Jul 21, 2008 10:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

iawtc

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 11:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you would all be wrong then. Check out tonight’s Met game. Billy Wagner is out and the Mets entered the ninth with a 5-2 lead. It’s now 8-5 Phillies. I don’t see anyone in the Giants’ entire organization who would be a better closer than Brian Wilson. The only way is if you made one of the group of Bumgarner, Alderson or Sosa a closer, and that would be an incredible waste.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 22, 2008 7:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

nah

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 22, 2008 7:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 23, 2008 9:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

splunge

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 23, 2008 10:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fact:

Wilson is young (sort of, he’s 26)
Wilson is homegrown (woo-hoo?)
Wilson is cheap (this increases his trade value)
Wilson is effective (Except when the game’s not on the line) (Wilson is effective, except when he’s not)
Wilson is an All-Star (Wilson was a bad all-star choice and that’s not a good measure of skill, but it might increase his trade value)
Wilson is part of the next great Giants team (maybe)

TRADE HIM!!! IT MAKES SENSE!!!

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 22, 2008 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Same shit, different day

No matter what thread gets started here, it somehow winds up degenerating into a “trade Brian Wilson” thread. Fortunately, it’s a waste of time because Wilson isn’t being traded.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 22, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So you're saying ...

there’s a great Giants team coming in the next 5 years (maybe)? Hmm…. mull, mull, mull, ... I’m gonna have to take the “over” on that.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Jul 23, 2008 5:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder whether the Angels would be interested in Mr. Molina. Mathis is getting most of the playing time down there, and he’s not hitting at all.

Hell, they could take Winn, too, and improve their defense by sticking Anderson at DH.

by Dan from NM on Jul 21, 2008 8:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Bengie

Bengie has a ton of friends still on the Angels. That would seem to be a very good fit.

by sharksrog on Jul 21, 2008 11:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds like a good fit to me...

But the Angels have always been hesitant to trade away anything of value at the deadline… and Molina is the one tradeable Giant for which I would expect value back. Seems like an excellent fit though, perhaps we could throw in Winn to get Sean Rodriguez, a AAA SS seemingly stuck behind Macier Izturis and Eric Aybar. He was rated as their #7 prospect by BA this offseason.

Angel Villalona: Treatin' all pitches like fastballs since '07.

by AngelintheInfield on Jul 22, 2008 7:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sexson!

I bet the yanks would trade him for Molina!

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Jul 22, 2008 7:36 AM PDT   0 recs

no

/jponry

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 22, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marlins + Molina?

With the Marlins just a few games out of a playoff spot, I’m guessing that they’re going to try to make a run for it this year. Catcher is a position of extreme need for them, and Bengie is arguably the best catcher available right now. I say Bengie to the Marlins makes a heck of alot of sense for both teams. The Giants and the Marlins have been very trade friendly over the years… but for some reason I just don’t see any Molina trade happening.

I’d love to see Chris Coghlan in Black and Orange, but I don’t know if they’re willing to part with him (their #6 prospect), even though he’s blocked by Uggla.

Angel Villalona: Treatin' all pitches like fastballs since '07.

by AngelintheInfield on Jul 22, 2008 7:53 AM PDT   0 recs

I wanted McPherson until some of the stats guys over here showed what his stats would be like if he played in a normal stadium. Pass.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 22, 2008 6:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This has been said before, but Bengie to the Marlins is not going to happen. The Marlins aren’t going to take on his salary, and he has been too good a performer for the Giants to eat his salary to get rid of him.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 22, 2008 6:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Really?

Seems like he’s been the catching version of Pedro Feliz to me (without the defense).

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Jul 23, 2008 5:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

But it makes no sense to trade him for the sake of it, i’d actually want something decent back. I’m not sure how much any of the possibilities would be willing to give up for Bengie, which might make it difficult. I think it’s highly unlikely he gets traded though & i’d imagine we’d require a lot in return to be willing to trade him!

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on Jul 22, 2008 7:58 AM PDT   0 recs

Contenders who find themselves in need of a closer

Arizona
Los Angeles
Chicago
Milwaukee
St. Louis

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 22, 2008 8:31 AM PDT   0 recs

No L.A.

Hate aside I remember Mark Grant. Never could get it together as a young Giant. Goes to S.D. and wins the Cy young. I looked like we had handed them a key part of their teams for a decade. Lucky the baseball Gawds stepped in to saved us.

Thus , even though L.A. would have the talent to talk me into a Wilson trade the down side, because Wilson is still young, is BIG.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 8:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mark Davis..

Mark Grant was a promising young arm who probably suffered from minor league overuse.
e.g
Age 18 in the midwest league
16- 5 2.36 198.2 IP 139H 60BB 243K

not nearly so good after that

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Mark-Grant.shtml

Pedro Feliz would look great in Dodger Blue.

by irwin on Jul 22, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i sit corrected.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 9:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to mention ...

The Giants got the WAY better end of that deal.

by StickRat on Jul 22, 2008 2:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I am not contending that trade was a bad one. Just saying after the ‘89 season it looked liked the Giants had given them a deadly center piece for a long number of years.

To put I in more current terms what if we trade a youngish Wilson to LA and he turns into the next Gagne? How the heck do you get enough upside to justify that risk? I don’t think you do.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 23, 2008 7:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

After the '89 season

Davis was a FA, and went off to KC to begin the overpriced Zito-esque portion of his career. When the Giants traded him in ‘87, he not only wasn’t a productive closer, he wasn’t a reliever at all. He was a bad (4.71 ERA in ‘87 dollars) starting pitcher, so in your analysis it’s much more like if we traded Kevin Correia to LA, got a future MVP and outstanding SP in return, and Correia happened to have two flukily good seasons as a closer before hitting the FA market—I can live with that just fine.

My boy ain't fat, he's