Lobster Harmonicas

by Grant on Jul 21, 2008 12:36 PM PDT Comment 161 comments

Ray Durham: Good Giant. He struggled with injuries in his first couple of seasons with the team, though he still managed over 400 at-bats, and he struggled with crippling suck last season, but he was a good Giant. There was a chance that the suck would leach into 2008, as was incorrectly forecast in this masterpiece of misplaced cynicism.

It didn’t, and the Giants were able to get actual players back for Durham. The organization is surprisingly thin with emergency starter-types after Pat Misch, and Steve Hammond gives a little bit more depth for the next couple of seasons. The organization is unsurprisingly thick with speedy, no-hit centerfield-types, and they’ll just add Darren Ford to the pile. For the next few seasons, the Giants will plunk a quarter in the organizational machine, move the claw around, and hope that they finally grab a speedy centerfield-type who starts to hit. It's better than nothing, though someone with just a touch of power would have made more sense.

Now we move on to the less-than-thrilling debate of What Now?: Second-Base Edition. The contenders:

Travis Denker

Pro:
He actually has a little power. Most of it is doubles power, but his isolated power numbers are still good. After 74 wretched AA at-bats, he’s hit wherever the Giants have stuck him, including the majors.

Con:
He wasn’t supposed to be in the majors this season, and he really isn’t a good enough prospect to rush past AAA. More at-bats in Fresno are what Denker needs. And it’s almost impossible to find someone who isn’t an improvement on Durham’s defense, but here he is. I mean, it’s like a million-to-one shot that one of the next players in line for the job would be just as bad. There’s no way that the Giants could find another player who is actually a downgrade to Durham, and….

Eugenio Velez

Pro:
Oh. Well, Velez brings blazing speed in addition to his fast times from home-to-first and first-to-third, and he wraps it all up with a certain je ne sai quick that is clinically proven to be 34% fastier than store-brand fast. And, don’t look now, but this speed demon was actually hitting in Fresno after his demotion. It would have been easy to pout in those circumstances, so bully for Eugenio.

Con:
He was a disaster in the bigs this year. Defensively, offensively, and on the basepaths, the guy was like the protagonist of some classic Greek myth that explains how the gods gave headaches to the world.

Jose Castillo

Pro:
404 not found.

Con:
Really, I can deal with the guy as a stopgap at third, as the Giants really don’t have a more appealing option, but putting Castillo at second just gets more at-bats for Rich Aurilia. That does nothing much for the present roster, modest power spike aside, and that does nothing for the evaluation of future rosters.

Manny Burriss

Pro:
It’s an absolute travesty that the Giants aren’t letting him get at-bats at any level. Pick an organization from Augusta to San Francisco, put him in the lineup, and let him face professional pitching. The way the Giants have mishandled Burriss and Bocock is worthy of a Bob Woodward exposé. Heck, it’s worthy of a Kitty Kelley exposé, as I’m sure that pill-popping had something to do with it all. Putting Burriss at second will get him some at-bats.

Con:
Burriss at second means Vizquel at short, which means zero home runs from 25% of the lineup. Like, a literal big fat zero. Power isn’t everything, but Vizquel and (probably) Burriss will also be in over their heads in every other offensive aspect. And this is all done to get Vizquel in the lineup? Vizquel has had 150+ at-bats of sub-Lincecum production with no signs of improvement. It’s amazing that he’s still a factor.

Ivan Ochoa

Pro:
Eh.

Con:
I dunno. Sure, he was having a nice season in Fresno, and he’s younger than Eugenio, but he’s still a career .255/.338/.324 hitter in the minors.

Give me a side of Eugenio at second, with a main course of more Burriss at short. I’m tempted to go with Denker, but Velez’s performance in AAA swings the vote his direction.

Poll

Well?

Denker

125 votes

Eugenio

186 votes

Burriss

130 votes

Castillol

5 votes

Ochoa

16 votes

I'm such an inconoclastic genius that I'll choose "other", and y'all will just have to guess at my brilliant and non-obvious solution.

62 votes

524 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 161 comments

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Comments

I’ll take Travis, Denker very much.

Actually, that was just fun to say. I’m just glad that it will be any of those guys.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Denker, definitely

Put Ochoa (“mini Vizquel”, as someone was calling him) at SS, and send Burriss back to the minors, please. I like Burriss, but I never expected to see him this early, and he needs to learn how to hit the ball a little harder, which will probably be easier against minor league pitching.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d like to see either Denker or Velez at second and Manny at short. If you held a gun to my head, I guess I’d choose Denker.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I pretty much agree with this except if someone puts a gum to jponry’s head, I’d say, “You don’t have the guts to pull the trigger!”

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If someone puts a gum to my head, it’ll just get in my hair. :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can get it out with peanut butter.

Just avoid Goofus’ other kind of butter.

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 21, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

To people who don't get this reference,

Don’t ask. Please.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

404 not found

gave me a good lol.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Jul 21, 2008 12:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+ also

I also would have accepted:

400 Bad Player Request

500 Internal Organizational Error

501 Management Not Implemented

or the ever-popular File Contains No Data

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

for 2008 2B should be Velez or Denker ...

... whichever of the two happens to be hitting better.

But, this is all with the understanding that Kevin Frandsen still has the potential to emulate his hero, Robby Thompson, next season. Start Burriss more at shortstop and keep Castillo at third until we can find a bigger better bat for third.

by Persiflage on Jul 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would hope that Frandsen can stick at 3B next year and Denker can win the 2B job.

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate Velez.

There, I said it.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I have a feeling we could put together a really, really big support group for that.

I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."

by Mayor of 311 on Jul 21, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yah that damn throw to third base yesterday

is exactly why i cant watch the guy

Someone get Damon Minor's agent on the phone stat!

by fanofvanlandingham on Jul 21, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

By now, I’m pretty much convinced he’s not the answer. But, as long as he’s up here, he might as well get some more playing time just to make sure.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jul 21, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that

masterpiece of misplace cynicism was me portending that the Giants infield could be one of the worst of ALL-TIME (offensively).

But it wasn’t. However, they are still horrible, even with Durham actually hitting his way out of here, their sOPS+ (OPS of infield compared to other ML infields) is 82. Compared to last years 81. Compared to 1985s 80. Which is all around 25th worst all time, so hey, not that bad amirite?

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Jul 21, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Eugenio vs. Travis

Key test: “Velez, I just met her”.

I rest my case.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Jul 21, 2008 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Velez, I guess, with Ochoa at short. Best case, maybe Eugenio has overcome his all-encompassing awfulness. Worst case, we move up in the Strasburg lottery.

But then there’s this guy, whom I’m all sharksroggy over and who just got DFA’d again. He can’t hit much, but he’s a genius with the glove. Worst case, he shores up the terrible infield defense. Best case, he develops into Mark Ellis.

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

SLG. .176

He’ll fit right in! (j/k)

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and also, actually

it looks like they DFAed him so he could qualify for the Olympic team. It would be pretty shady for someone to poach the kid now.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080719&content_id=3156954&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shady is Brian Sabean’s middle name.

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah

i’m pretty sure it’s “Shitty”

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 21, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, my projection in that preseason thread was frighteningly brilliant, even for me. Even so, I still understated how much Ray would trade slugging for OBP. And I got the NL Central team he was traded to wrong. Oh well.

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Speedy McF*ckup now, Denker later

Ochoa seems to get a bad case of Eugenio when he plays second, and while Velez’s offense is frustrating. it’s frustrating because it has unrealized potential. Let’s just say that Ochoa doesn’t have much unrealize.

Let Denker have a go at it later this season.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This

while Velez’s offense is frustrating. it’s frustrating because it has unrealized potential

If he could just get it together, he could be really good.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's Eugenio's Job to lose.

Of the available Candidates, Velez has outperformed all of them at the Minor League Level. He started off this season with a horrible performance which put a bad taste it a lot of peoples mouths, but the #’s suggest that he is not as bad as he looked. He got DAS BOOT after only ~ 120 AB’s, which is an impossibly small sample size. (and he still managed to flash some XB power and difference making speed in that short opportunity)

I am 100% behind giving Velez the rest of this season to determine if he has a career in professional baseball or not.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Focus on the positive

Velez has yet to be picked off 1st base since he returned to the majors!

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Jul 21, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO that actually is a positive.

I have yet to catch a game w/ him playing at second tho to evaluate his defense.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s sub-par.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

More like butchery.

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 21, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it’s still bad

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bad we can deal with

It was atrocious that was the deal breaker.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another thing to point out.

Is if you look at his history, his performance in the first 120 AB’s of this year is a serious outlier. Nothing in his MiL performance suggests that he is anywhere near that bad.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you seem to have some sort of pro Velez bias...

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Jul 21, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Duh.

But I also have a numbers oriented unbias, and that part of me suggests that Velez is not a .200/.250/<.400 hitter.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't you start that anti-Velez thread that I posted in?

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh, I say Burriss, only because I want to see him play regularly. I feel like he’s the Kevin Frandsen of 2008—a decent player who might actually get into a nice groove at the plate and in the field if they only gave him some goddamnmotherfucking playing time.

I’ve made my peace with Vizquel starting at SS every day the rest of the season. There’s actually an upside to it: it’s a daily advertisement for this organization’s incompetence in failing to develop an adequate backup for a 41-year old position player, and it’s a daily advertisement for Bochy’s moronic preference for veterans over young’uns during what should be a “rebuilding” year.

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Jul 21, 2008 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Problem With Buriss:

Is he is, IMO, a low upside player. AT BEST he is probably a ~.280 singles hitter with 30 SBs.

I believe Velez to be higher upside because of his XBH power. Velez is probably more of a wild card however.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You might be right

I may have been scarred by Velez’ defense (especially the poor communication with the outfielders on those 50/50 balls) during his first go-round. He certainly has more power than Burriss, though.

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Jul 21, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I voted for Burriss

only because I have accepted that fact that stupd head Bochy won’t take Vizquel out. It should be Burris as SS and Velez/Denker battle for 2nd.

by jhiat00 on Jul 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bochy/Sabean Logic

Castillo at 2B, Richie at 3B.

Sign Durham to a 4 year deal in the offseason.

Without killing anyone
We've won it 3 times

by ChrisHero on Jul 21, 2008 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

don't say things like that

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ideally, I’d like to see Denker at second and Burriss at short. But since Bochy has made it clear he won’t bench Vizquel even if someone kidnapped his family and threatened to kill him unless he does so, that’s not going to happen. So either Burriss or Denker would be okay with me.

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

There actually is one upside for starting Castillo at 2nd

That means Aurilia plays 3rd regularly. The trade deadline is just a week and a half away. If Aurilia can string some hits together and show some productivity, we might be able to get rid of him, too. Then we can move Castillo back to 3rd and Ochoa/Velez/Burriss to 2nd more regularly.

by boonitez on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Aurilia has been playing pretty regularly already until he got sick. This arrangement just means more Jose Castillo at bats. is that what you want? Is it?

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

howtheyscored is going to yell at me for that sentence

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Am not!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why not? it's grammatically horrifying

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was actually hoping to settle it with fisticuffs. Either those or your preferred form of cuffs.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

fingercuffs

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then meet me behind the park at 5:30 tomorrow, and bring your fingercuffs! We’ll straighten this grammer crap out if it’s the last thing you do.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If oldjacket’s post was a Chasing Amy reference like I think it was, you’re in for a surprise.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 21, 2008 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, not anymore he isn't

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

:D

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, I’m not surprised I didn’t catch a Chasing Amy reference. I’m not a huge fan of that movie. Give me Dogma any day of the week, even with the awful Linda Fiorentino acting.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I prefer Mallrat.s

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mallrats is cool and all, but I can almost never watch the whole thing in one sitting. It’s more of a nibbling kind of movie for me.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mallrats has about five funny moments, but that’s about it. It would be the worst Kevin Smith movie ever except for Jersey Girl.

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do not endorse Chasing Amy. Or Dogma.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back sucked.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has Kevin Smith done anything remotely clever

besides Clerks?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he craps all over Donnie Darko in the commentary track for that movie. I enjoyed that.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I frankly enjoy the entire body of his work.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dogma?

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose Dogma could be considered remotely clever. But he really needs to work with a real screenwriter. The guy’s scripts are trainwrecks.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Dogma is far more than remotely clever. “Buddy Jesus” and “make with the love” belong in the movie hall of fame.

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"It's a nice way of saying boning"

And it was Buddy Christ.

I like Kevin Smith’s films a great deal. Might help that I lived in Central Jersey for a number of years as a kid.

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

also a big fan. also might help having spent a couple formative years in central jersey. hell, i even lived in the tritown/city. red bank was the next town over. i went to his comic book store when i was little.

by cornball on Jul 21, 2008 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

And while I can appreciate the obstacles that Clerks went through to be mildly amusing on a $5 budget, it’s still just a mildly amusing movie.

by Grant on Jul 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You obviously were never a stoned teenager.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was exactly a stoned teenager. Clerks came out in, what, ‘94? My god, this goof and I were halfway to Neptune before that year ended. Clerks has its moments, but I wouldn’t put it above run-of-the-mill mildly amusing Hollywood movies like Along Came Polly or Fever Pitch. The dialog is clever in spots, but way too awkward in others.

by Grant on Jul 21, 2008 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

To each his own, I guess.

Maybe I enjoyed them so much because a friend of mine was from Jersey…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

those movies? really?

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jul 21, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

harsh but fair

imo

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kind of like all three of those movies, so I’m not totally excoriating Smith. It’s just that I’ve never understood its “new classic”-status.

by Grant on Jul 22, 2008 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll tell you what’s classic, “Mallrats” DVD with the voice-over commentary. It was recorded years after the film’s release and the guys are either drunk or stoned or both and do a lot of ripping on each other.

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone knows Bochy is going to put Castillo at 2nd, so I don’t see what the big discussion is about. I mean come on, we have watched the guy write a lineup card every day for the past 2 seasons and there is no way anyone can tell me Castillo will not get the majority of the starts at 2nd. Thats just how Bochy rolls. He can’t even bench Omar. Like boonitez said, best we can hope for is that Richie catches fire and we trade him, so Bochy’s hand is forced a bit.

Myself, I would go for Velez.. I would also put Burris full time at short (DUH). I really don’t think Burris is all that great but we might as well find out now when we are 15 games under 500.

by Nellieball on Jul 21, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

another advantage to starting Velez

is that he’s absolutely hilarious.

If we’re going to be bad, we might as well get a few laughs out of it.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Exactamundo.

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactaugenio!

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which reminds me

You know what’s annoying? Last year, our .408 winning percentage would’ve been bad enough for the first or second pick (Rays got it with a .407 record). This year, if the season ended, we’d be #4.

Just another tiny little thing to remind us that the Baseball Gods are against us.

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only we could've had the 2nd pick..

We would’ve picked….Buster Posey. And the #4 pick next year isn’t so bad. There are usually 1-3 good hitting 1st/3rd baseman to choose from, so we’ll definitely get our pick.

by boonitez on Jul 21, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was there an indication that Posey was tops on our draft board, over Alvarez?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read somewhere that it was Alvarez then Posey.

by Grant on Jul 21, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember reading that too.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well no, but knowing us we would've picked Posey anyways

by boonitez on Jul 21, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha, boonitez thinks we’re ever going to pick a first or third baseman, EVER

haha

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, we picked 4 first basemen just this year. Of course, they were in the 16th, 29th, 40th, and 49th rounds. Hooray?

by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, Posey can be a first or third baseman.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Denker.

Most upside with the bat. Manny should be playing SS. Velez sucks and Ochoa shouldn’t start.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 21, 2008 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Anagram of "Eugenio Velez"

EULOGIZE EVEN

Um, I don’t his career is quite at THAT stage just yet…

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 21, 2008 2:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

well, if anagrams guide us...

Travis Denker = Streak Driven. Hell, I’ll take streaky. (also Sad River Kent, fwiw)

Jose Castillo = Ciao, Less Jolt. ‘Nuff said there.

Ivan Ochoa = Avian Coho. Makes as much sense as a salmon with wings.

Emmanuel Burriss = Baselines Murmur. Ooh, now that sounds kind of exciting.

Denker at 2B, Manny at SS, please.

Bengie: Like an Aurilia kidney stone, slow-moving and tough to get out.

by juanboy on Jul 21, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say play Denker and Velez at 2nd at the same time.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 2:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Will that improve defense or will they just run into eachother every play?

by chilibean_3 on Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Left second and right second, or deep second and shallow second?

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

First second and second second.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where’s Barry gonna be?

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 21, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Let's see what sticks"

Play all of these bums and let’s find out what they got. My personal favorite would be that Frandsen wins the 2009 2b job.

Let the remainder of the 2008 season be try-outs. Once it is determined that maybe there is no talent then GM Sabean can do his job and either trade, sign or steal some talent for 2009.

by wilriv21 on Jul 21, 2008 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Remind me why people like Frandsen again?

Is it his grit? Or his 2.0 WARP?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It was his GRIT 2.0.

(And we sometimes overrate our own prospects)

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Local gritty guy.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

gritty = white

amirite?

From his PECOTA card:

The Giants love Frandsen and it`s not just because he`s unfailingly polite and always remembers to bring enough chewing gum for everyone.

roffle

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Career .328/.393/.459 hitter in the minors, mostly high minors?

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dustin Pedroia: .308 /.391/ .454 in the minors

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactadroia!

by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

K-Franamundo!

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pedroia, I think, is almost 2-years younger than Franny. It’s not a terrible comp but Frandsen will be 27-years-old next year and coming off an injury. I think his window got a lot smaller this year.

My concern with Frandsen in ‘07 was that he hit a ton of balls on the ground. 52.9% of his balls in play were on the ground and for a guy with average speed (maybe soon to get slower with his injury) it didn’t mix well. Ichiro has a career GB% of 55%. He was like a slower Ichiro, without the bat control!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 21, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is true. Pedroia’s minor league numbers were put up at ages 20-22, whereas Frandsen put up his numbers at age 22-24.

Like most Giant prospects I’ll be happy if he can be a major league starter. I don’t see him going to any all star games.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He really hit in the minors. He deserves an actual shot.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree he deserves a shot

But it seems to me that some folks seem to remember him being a whole lot better than he actually is.

If he turns out to be Pedroia caliber, I’ll eat my hat. BP doesn’t think he’ll be Robby Thompson, much less Dustin Pedroia.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well there’s no way he’s Robby Thompsen.

Thompsen was a high-K moderate-pop, superb defense guy, if I remember correctly.

Frandsen has a similar skillset to Pedroia. I’m not saying he’s necessarily as good a player.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't speak for others....

...but I like him for his career .328/.393/.459 minor-league line, which is pretty decent considering he was rushed to AAA in his first full pro season. His horrible 2007 first half holds way too much weight with people around here, in my opinion. If he were a Met, he would have been traded for Erik Bedard in the offseason.

He is probably just a utility player, but there’s a decent chance he peaks at something like .290/.350/.400 with decent defense, and that’s a fine player to have.

by Grant on Jul 21, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'll take it

i don’t think he’ll put up those kinds of numbers, but I hope to be proven wrong.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His horrible 2007 first half holds way too much weight with people around here, in my opinion.

That’s how we roll at the MCC.

For reals, the McCoven is populated heavily by reactionaries.

Only 875 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

populated heavily by reactionaries.

Otherwise known as Sports Fans.

So what exactly have you done for me lately? huh?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 22, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s a regular grit machine. He pees scrap and poos grit. Instead of melanin, his body colors itself with gritanin. He has grit coming out the wazoo, which is good because that is where it comes out of.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One for the road...

Durham? I hardly even knew him!

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no more "Durhammy" jokes

sad panda

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vizquelhammy!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn’t quite ring, does it?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hammyond?

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar. Welcome, Steve Hammond "Eggs". Throw strikes.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burrhammy!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 21, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

Double-whammy on bad hammy

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Jul 21, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hammyton.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 21, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have won a bunch of money because I knew that, but my mouth was full of brownie and I didn’t have any milk.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Balco gave Barry hammroids

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Out of Left Field

Sure Velez was hitting in Fresno, but he was also splitting playing Left and Second. He’ll get some looks at 2nd, but he needs to move beyond ‘atrocious’ defense to stick at Second – the Giants brass doesn’t trust him there. Until then I think he continues to get a couple starts/ABs/PinchRuns per week between OF and 2b, unless he gets on a real hot streak.

Denker wins by default.

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jul 21, 2008 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

until my RSS feed tells me that Denker gets called up, I’m thinking Velez wins by default.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jul 22, 2008 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other: Bonds/Rueter platoon. Yes, I know they’re both lefties, but Barry is just aching to play again, and who doesn’t love Kirk Rueter?

Actually, I voted for Denker, because me likey the bat, especially with so little offense on this team. So what about the defense? We can send him out there with two gloves and a bucket strapped to his head. He’s bound to catch something eventually. At the very least, he’ll get on SportsCenter.

Also, why isn’t Aurilia an option at 2nd? It may not be the greatest idea, but he did play there when he was with the Reds.

"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Jul 21, 2008 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

Why people keep saying that Denker’s got such a great bat Vs. Velez.

.275/.376/.451
Vs.
.295/.342/.450

Both Career MiL. I’ll let you pick which is which.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would prefer the 23 year old with a 375 obp than a 342 obp from a 26 year old

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Jul 21, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

without looking, the one with the higher OBP is Denker.

Denker has put up superior but comparable numbers at a younger age. 1/4 of Speedy’s ABs came as a 24 year old in low A.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll take the younger player with 30 extra points of OBP

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn’t very hard.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s what she said!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Point is

It’s not exactly overwhelming.

Yes, Denker is younger and has a higher OBP.

He also has a lower average (which isn’t entirely worthless).

They are both worth an extended look.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I haz a bukkit

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he said

that his best position defensively was 2nd base.. so maybe. i dont like it though unless it bumps up his trade value

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Jul 21, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

more playing time for Castillo

everybody wants that!

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The “two gloves and a bucket strapped to his head” thing made me snork-laugh here at the office.

Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.

by Goofus on Jul 21, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

aurilia

I think we have more options at second than third, unless you want castillo and aurilia both playing every day while manny/ochoa/velez rot on the bench.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other

Brian Bocock.

I only have a signature because I recognize everyone else by their sigs, not their usernames..

by lmaozedong on Jul 21, 2008 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I support this idea. I could resume yelling “BOCOCK!” from the stands like a chicken.

"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Jul 21, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say Ochoa

because he hasn’t been with the team long enough to get me annoyed with him yet.

The All-Father is now a Giant!

by EliminateMe on Jul 21, 2008 5:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That "no effort" drop on the liner behind 2b the other day

Pissed me off plenty.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I was FURIOUS when that happned

by Nellieball on Jul 21, 2008 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did I also mention

that I spent the last week out of range of all media?

The All-Father is now a Giant!

by EliminateMe on Jul 21, 2008 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve watched a couple o Grizzlies games this year. Ochoa’s annoyed me plenty.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 22, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burriss and Denker

Denkers got pop + he has patience. Burriss looks like he has good defense and he’s supposed to be a great base stealer.

OT – Villalona just went yard

by superk1ng on Jul 21, 2008 6:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pancho can hit

by wilriv21 on Jul 21, 2008 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aurilia 2B

I can haz wrath?

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.

by S.F. Giangst on Jul 21, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

see above.

If you want more Castillo, just say so.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Manny Burriss. So I’m biased, but I do want to see him get the playing time.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 21, 2008 6:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Auditions

I would hold on-the-job auditions for second base. Same with shortstop, assuming Gary Radnich is right that the Omar Vizquel situation will come to a head in about a week resulting in trade, release or less playing time.

A longshot would be bringing up Ryan Rohlinger to play third and moving Jose Castillo to second. That would seem likely only if Rich Aurilia is traded and the Ochoa/Burriss/Velez/Denker options all fail.

I’m not sure, but I think Ivan Ochoa - the guy many of us wanted to play shortstop instead of Brian Bocock at the beginning of the season - may be the most ready.

by sharksrog on Jul 21, 2008 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d probably go with Ochoa at short, and Velez at second. Then stick Burriss and Denker in Fresno to play every day.

If that’s not an option, in more practical terms, I’d like to see Burriss play every day at second because he’s got the most upside and keeping him on the bunch is of no help to our future.

by Dan from NM on Jul 21, 2008 8:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

For those interested, our newest acquisition is in the game for Fresno.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.

by sfgreg on Jul 21, 2008 8:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d like to see Velez at second and Burris at short as well, though I think Denker has more upside than Velez at this point. Still, give Velez a few weeks of consistent at-bats to see if he’s learned anything since the first time he was here, if he continues to struggle, call up Denker. I think it’s only a matter of time (maybe days) before Vizquel is traded, retires or is dfa’d so hopefully it will be a heavy dose of Burris at short over the last 2 months.

It looks like Frandsen wants back this year now that second has opened up too. He might still figure into the mix in September.

http://giantsbaseballblog.blogspot.com/

by trecole696 on Jul 22, 2008 12:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs