Lobster Harmonicas
Ray Durham: Good Giant. He struggled with injuries in his first couple of seasons with the team, though he still managed over 400 at-bats, and he struggled with crippling suck last season, but he was a good Giant. There was a chance that the suck would leach into 2008, as was incorrectly forecast in this masterpiece of misplaced cynicism.
It didn’t, and the Giants were able to get actual players back for Durham. The organization is surprisingly thin with emergency starter-types after Pat Misch, and Steve Hammond gives a little bit more depth for the next couple of seasons. The organization is unsurprisingly thick with speedy, no-hit centerfield-types, and they’ll just add Darren Ford to the pile. For the next few seasons, the Giants will plunk a quarter in the organizational machine, move the claw around, and hope that they finally grab a speedy centerfield-type who starts to hit. It's better than nothing, though someone with just a touch of power would have made more sense.
Now we move on to the less-than-thrilling debate of What Now?: Second-Base Edition. The contenders:
Travis Denker
Pro:
He actually has a little power. Most of it is doubles power, but his isolated power numbers are still good. After 74 wretched AA at-bats, he’s hit wherever the Giants have stuck him, including the majors.
Con:
He wasn’t supposed to be in the majors this season, and he really isn’t a good enough prospect to rush past AAA. More at-bats in Fresno are what Denker needs. And it’s almost impossible to find someone who isn’t an improvement on Durham’s defense, but here he is. I mean, it’s like a million-to-one shot that one of the next players in line for the job would be just as bad. There’s no way that the Giants could find another player who is actually a downgrade to Durham, and….
Eugenio Velez
Pro:
Oh. Well, Velez brings blazing speed in addition to his fast times from home-to-first and first-to-third, and he wraps it all up with a certain je ne sai quick that is clinically proven to be 34% fastier than store-brand fast. And, don’t look now, but this speed demon was actually hitting in Fresno after his demotion. It would have been easy to pout in those circumstances, so bully for Eugenio.
Con:
He was a disaster in the bigs this year. Defensively, offensively, and on the basepaths, the guy was like the protagonist of some classic Greek myth that explains how the gods gave headaches to the world.
Jose Castillo
Pro:
404 not found.
Con:
Really, I can deal with the guy as a stopgap at third, as the Giants really don’t have a more appealing option, but putting Castillo at second just gets more at-bats for Rich Aurilia. That does nothing much for the present roster, modest power spike aside, and that does nothing for the evaluation of future rosters.
Manny Burriss
Pro:
It’s an absolute travesty that the Giants aren’t letting him get at-bats at any level. Pick an organization from Augusta to San Francisco, put him in the lineup, and let him face professional pitching. The way the Giants have mishandled Burriss and Bocock is worthy of a Bob Woodward exposé. Heck, it’s worthy of a Kitty Kelley exposé, as I’m sure that pill-popping had something to do with it all. Putting Burriss at second will get him some at-bats.
Con:
Burriss at second means Vizquel at short, which means zero home runs from 25% of the lineup. Like, a literal big fat zero. Power isn’t everything, but Vizquel and (probably) Burriss will also be in over their heads in every other offensive aspect. And this is all done to get Vizquel in the lineup? Vizquel has had 150+ at-bats of sub-Lincecum production with no signs of improvement. It’s amazing that he’s still a factor.
Ivan Ochoa
Pro:
Eh.
Con:
I dunno. Sure, he was having a nice season in Fresno, and he’s younger than Eugenio, but he’s still a career .255/.338/.324 hitter in the minors.
Give me a side of Eugenio at second, with a main course of more Burriss at short. I’m tempted to go with Denker, but Velez’s performance in AAA swings the vote his direction.
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comments
Comments
I’ll take Travis, Denker very much.
Actually, that was just fun to say. I’m just glad that it will be any of those guys.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 21, 2008 12:43 PM PDT 0 recs
Denker, definitely
Put Ochoa (“mini Vizquel”, as someone was calling him) at SS, and send Burriss back to the minors, please. I like Burriss, but I never expected to see him this early, and he needs to learn how to hit the ball a little harder, which will probably be easier against minor league pitching.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
Jul 21, 2008 2:16 PM PDT
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I’d like to see either Denker or Velez at second and Manny at short. If you held a gun to my head, I guess I’d choose Denker.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 21, 2008 12:44 PM PDT 0 recs
I pretty much agree with this except if someone puts a gum to jponry’s head, I’d say, “You don’t have the guts to pull the trigger!”
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on
Jul 21, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
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If someone puts a gum to my head, it’ll just get in my hair. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on
Jul 21, 2008 1:27 PM PDT
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You can get it out with peanut butter.
Just avoid Goofus’ other kind of butter.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on
Jul 21, 2008 1:32 PM PDT
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To people who don't get this reference,
Don’t ask. Please.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
Jul 21, 2008 2:17 PM PDT
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404 not found
gave me a good lol.
:)
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Jul 21, 2008 12:46 PM PDT 0 recs
+ also
I also would have accepted:
400 Bad Player Request
500 Internal Organizational Error
501 Management Not Implemented
or the ever-popular File Contains No Data
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 12:49 PM PDT
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for 2008 2B should be Velez or Denker ...
... whichever of the two happens to be hitting better.
But, this is all with the understanding that Kevin Frandsen still has the potential to emulate his hero, Robby Thompson, next season. Start Burriss more at shortstop and keep Castillo at third until we can find a bigger better bat for third.
by Persiflage on Jul 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT 0 recs
I would hope that Frandsen can stick at 3B next year and Denker can win the 2B job.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on
Jul 21, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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I hate Velez.
There, I said it.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 12:48 PM PDT 0 recs
I have a feeling we could put together a really, really big support group for that.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on
Jul 21, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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yah that damn throw to third base yesterday
is exactly why i cant watch the guy
Someone get Damon Minor's agent on the phone stat!
by fanofvanlandingham on
Jul 21, 2008 2:43 PM PDT
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By now, I’m pretty much convinced he’s not the answer. But, as long as he’s up here, he might as well get some more playing time just to make sure.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on
Jul 21, 2008 6:45 PM PDT
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I thought that
masterpiece of misplace cynicism was me portending that the Giants infield could be one of the worst of ALL-TIME (offensively).
But it wasn’t. However, they are still horrible, even with Durham actually hitting his way out of here, their sOPS+ (OPS of infield compared to other ML infields) is 82. Compared to last years 81. Compared to 1985s 80. Which is all around 25th worst all time, so hey, not that bad amirite?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Jul 21, 2008 12:54 PM PDT 0 recs
Eugenio vs. Travis
Key test: “Velez, I just met her”.
I rest my case.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Jul 21, 2008 12:55 PM PDT 0 recs
Velez, I guess, with Ochoa at short. Best case, maybe Eugenio has overcome his all-encompassing awfulness. Worst case, we move up in the Strasburg lottery.
But then there’s this guy, whom I’m all sharksroggy over and who just got DFA’d again. He can’t hit much, but he’s a genius with the glove. Worst case, he shores up the terrible infield defense. Best case, he develops into Mark Ellis.
by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 12:56 PM PDT 0 recs
SLG. .176
He’ll fit right in! (j/k)
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
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and also, actually
it looks like they DFAed him so he could qualify for the Olympic team. It would be pretty shady for someone to poach the kid now.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080719&content_id=3156954&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
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nah
i’m pretty sure it’s “Shitty”
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
Jul 21, 2008 10:23 PM PDT
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Wow, my projection in that preseason thread was frighteningly brilliant, even for me. Even so, I still understated how much Ray would trade slugging for OBP. And I got the NL Central team he was traded to wrong. Oh well.
by Evan on Jul 21, 2008 1:14 PM PDT 0 recs
Speedy McF*ckup now, Denker later
Ochoa seems to get a bad case of Eugenio when he plays second, and while Velez’s offense is frustrating. it’s frustrating because it has unrealized potential. Let’s just say that Ochoa doesn’t have much unrealize.
Let Denker have a go at it later this season.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 21, 2008 1:16 PM PDT 0 recs
This
while Velez’s offense is frustrating. it’s frustrating because it has unrealized potential
If he could just get it together, he could be really good.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
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It's Eugenio's Job to lose.
Of the available Candidates, Velez has outperformed all of them at the Minor League Level. He started off this season with a horrible performance which put a bad taste it a lot of peoples mouths, but the #’s suggest that he is not as bad as he looked. He got DAS BOOT after only ~ 120 AB’s, which is an impossibly small sample size. (and he still managed to flash some XB power and difference making speed in that short opportunity)
I am 100% behind giving Velez the rest of this season to determine if he has a career in professional baseball or not.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 21, 2008 1:16 PM PDT 0 recs
Focus on the positive
Velez has yet to be picked off 1st base since he returned to the majors!
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on
Jul 21, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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IMO that actually is a positive.
I have yet to catch a game w/ him playing at second tho to evaluate his defense.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:27 PM PDT
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It’s sub-par.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Jul 21, 2008 1:30 PM PDT
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More like butchery.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on
Jul 21, 2008 1:32 PM PDT
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Bad we can deal with
It was atrocious that was the deal breaker.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT
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Another thing to point out.
Is if you look at his history, his performance in the first 120 AB’s of this year is a serious outlier. Nothing in his MiL performance suggests that he is anywhere near that bad.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT
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you seem to have some sort of pro Velez bias...
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on
Jul 21, 2008 1:50 PM PDT
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Well, Duh.
But I also have a numbers oriented unbias, and that part of me suggests that Velez is not a .200/.250/<.400 hitter.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:52 PM PDT
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Didn't you start that anti-Velez thread that I posted in?
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
Jul 21, 2008 2:20 PM PDT
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Eh, I say Burriss, only because I want to see him play regularly. I feel like he’s the Kevin Frandsen of 2008—a decent player who might actually get into a nice groove at the plate and in the field if they only gave him some goddamnmotherfucking playing time.
I’ve made my peace with Vizquel starting at SS every day the rest of the season. There’s actually an upside to it: it’s a daily advertisement for this organization’s incompetence in failing to develop an adequate backup for a 41-year old position player, and it’s a daily advertisement for Bochy’s moronic preference for veterans over young’uns during what should be a “rebuilding” year.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Jul 21, 2008 1:18 PM PDT 0 recs
Problem With Buriss:
Is he is, IMO, a low upside player. AT BEST he is probably a ~.280 singles hitter with 30 SBs.
I believe Velez to be higher upside because of his XBH power. Velez is probably more of a wild card however.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 1:26 PM PDT
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You might be right
I may have been scarred by Velez’ defense (especially the poor communication with the outfielders on those 50/50 balls) during his first go-round. He certainly has more power than Burriss, though.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on
Jul 21, 2008 1:30 PM PDT
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I voted for Burriss
only because I have accepted that fact that stupd head Bochy won’t take Vizquel out. It should be Burris as SS and Velez/Denker battle for 2nd.
by jhiat00 on
Jul 21, 2008 2:35 PM PDT
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Bochy/Sabean Logic
Castillo at 2B, Richie at 3B.
Sign Durham to a 4 year deal in the offseason.
Without killing anyone
We've won it 3 times
by ChrisHero on Jul 21, 2008 1:29 PM PDT 0 recs
don't say things like that
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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Ideally, I’d like to see Denker at second and Burriss at short. But since Bochy has made it clear he won’t bench Vizquel even if someone kidnapped his family and threatened to kill him unless he does so, that’s not going to happen. So either Burriss or Denker would be okay with me.
by jcb9 on Jul 21, 2008 1:33 PM PDT 0 recs
There actually is one upside for starting Castillo at 2nd
That means Aurilia plays 3rd regularly. The trade deadline is just a week and a half away. If Aurilia can string some hits together and show some productivity, we might be able to get rid of him, too. Then we can move Castillo back to 3rd and Ochoa/Velez/Burriss to 2nd more regularly.
by boonitez on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 PM PDT 0 recs
Aurilia has been playing pretty regularly already until he got sick. This arrangement just means more Jose Castillo at bats. is that what you want? Is it?
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
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howtheyscored is going to yell at me for that sentence
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 1:38 PM PDT
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Am not!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Jul 21, 2008 2:11 PM PDT
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why not? it's grammatically horrifying
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM PDT
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I was actually hoping to settle it with fisticuffs. Either those or your preferred form of cuffs.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Jul 21, 2008 2:49 PM PDT
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Then meet me behind the park at 5:30 tomorrow, and bring your fingercuffs! We’ll straighten this grammer crap out if it’s the last thing you do.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Jul 21, 2008 3:22 PM PDT
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If oldjacket’s post was a Chasing Amy reference like I think it was, you’re in for a surprise.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on
Jul 21, 2008 3:24 PM PDT
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well, not anymore he isn't
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
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Ah, I’m not surprised I didn’t catch a Chasing Amy reference. I’m not a huge fan of that movie. Give me Dogma any day of the week, even with the awful Linda Fiorentino acting.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Jul 21, 2008 3:45 PM PDT
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Mallrats is cool and all, but I can almost never watch the whole thing in one sitting. It’s more of a nibbling kind of movie for me.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
Jul 21, 2008 4:18 PM PDT
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Mallrats has about five funny moments, but that’s about it. It would be the worst Kevin Smith movie ever except for Jersey Girl.
by jcb9 on
Jul 21, 2008 6:31 PM PDT
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I do not endorse Chasing Amy. Or Dogma.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 3:47 PM PDT
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Also, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back sucked.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Jul 21, 2008 4:24 PM PDT
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Has Kevin Smith done anything remotely clever
besides Clerks?
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 4:26 PM PDT
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he craps all over Donnie Darko in the commentary track for that movie. I enjoyed that.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on
Jul 21, 2008 4:34 PM PDT
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I frankly enjoy the entire body of his work.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 4:35 PM PDT
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Dogma?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Jul 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT
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I suppose Dogma could be considered remotely clever. But he really needs to work with a real screenwriter. The guy’s scripts are trainwrecks.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Jul 21, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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I think Dogma is far more than remotely clever. “Buddy Jesus” and “make with the love” belong in the movie hall of fame.
Adoptive father of howtheyscored. The beatings will begin momentarily.
by Goofus on
Jul 21, 2008 5:17 PM PDT
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"It's a nice way of saying boning"
And it was Buddy Christ.
I like Kevin Smith’s films a great deal. Might help that I lived in Central Jersey for a number of years as a kid.
by jcb9 on
Jul 21, 2008 6:33 PM PDT
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also a big fan. also might help having spent a couple formative years in central jersey. hell, i even lived in the tritown/city. red bank was the next town over. i went to his comic book store when i was little.
by cornball on
Jul 21, 2008 7:01 PM PDT
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No.
And while I can appreciate the obstacles that Clerks went through to be mildly amusing on a $5 budget, it’s still just a mildly amusing movie.
by Grant on
Jul 21, 2008 4:38 PM PDT
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You obviously were never a stoned teenager.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 4:44 PM PDT
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I was exactly a stoned teenager. Clerks came out in, what, ‘94? My god, this goof and I were halfway to Neptune before that year ended. Clerks has its moments, but I wouldn’t put it above run-of-the-mill mildly amusing Hollywood movies like Along Came Polly or Fever Pitch. The dialog is clever in spots, but way too awkward in others.
by Grant on
Jul 21, 2008 5:21 PM PDT
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haha
To each his own, I guess.
Maybe I enjoyed them so much because a friend of mine was from Jersey…
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
Jul 21, 2008 5:42 PM PDT
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