Just Durham..
by pittsburghian on Jul 20, 2008 10:44 AM PDT
Email
PrintApparently, the Brew Crew blogs have Taschner still warming up for the Giants, so it looks like its a more direct swap of Durham fro Hammond and Ford, with the question of how much money had to be sent over, if anything. This doesn't mean that something else may go down from the pitching end, as rumor had it that a lefty reliever was being called up for the Giants. Then again, with Durham out I can see a need to restock the bull pen anyways with the extra space.
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/default.aspx
I'm also wondering what this will mean come Tuesday/Wednesday when Roberts is due to activated. Perhaps then we'll lose someone else down to the minors unless another trade can be made.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
83 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If this is true
Then it is a definite winner. It’s like taking out the trash and finding two prospects leaning against the dumpster. That Ford guy looks intriguing, SPEEEED, and Hammond may be of some service.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT reply actions
You sure it’s not like taking out the trash and having the trash can spit out another full bag back at you?
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
But at least you don’t know what’s inside.
It’s probably more garbage, but there’s always a small chance you could find something useful.
by DesertFox on Jul 20, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"But at least you don’t know what’s inside."
Surprise Grab Bag o’ Trash—FTW!
by ExcuseMeSwing on Jul 20, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Ford..
Well, certain Fords are known for their speed, ok for cornering, but what about mileage? Just saying…
He's also a former teammate of Bowker's at Long Beach State
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 20, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Hammond
Sorry to rain on the parade, he’s actually from Martinez, Ca, maybe born in Vallejo, but not so much from there. I played with him from when we were 10, up through high school at Alhambra, so I can say for sure, not from Vallejo.
I’ve seen him pitch a lot, and a lot recently. I don’t know if he will be anything more than a middle starter or bullpen guy, but I know I am rooting for him.
I am excited though, we just dumped Ray and actually got breathing humans back!
by thethrill22 on Jul 20, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Thrill
Thrill, what year did you graduate from Alhambra? I would be willing to bet you know my son, who was Salutatorian in 2000.
So maybe Steve has done as Tug McGraw did—move from Martinez to Vallejo. Joe DiMaggio, of course, moved farther west.
As for Hammond, I see him as providing depth should the Giants trade a starter prior to the arrival of Mad Bum, Timmy Two and Henry Sosa.
I thought Mike Lawson was the top athlete at Alhambra during your era, but it sounds as if Steve has had the staying power.
I graduated in 1999
and you are correct, at the time, Mike Lawson was the best athlete at Alhambra. Steve as you might know, was decent, but we never figured any of us would go on longer than junior college. He had a lot of arm troubles, then after three or four years at Sac City, his arm healed. He went to Long Beach, and became pretty damn good, and got drafted by the Brewers, and now, finds himself somewhere in the system of his favorite team. Pretty cool if you ask me. And yes, I probably do know your son, whats his name?
Alhambra
So you graduated with Cal, right? I ran into Cal at the Virginia Hills Safeway a few months ago. His sister is now an assistant coach on the girls’ basketball team. What a fox, if you’re tall enough for her. :)
My son is Aaron. You probably know who he is.
I just heard from my daughter (Class of 2003) that a friend of hers had a crush on Steve and crank called him saying to meet her (without identifying herself) at the Westaire pool.
Small world, isn’t it?
best part of the trade
is that we actually get two players for someone we all wished would be DFA before the first pitch of the season
Not exactly
We all didn’t want to see Ray Durham DFA’d before the season. The wiser among us hoped Ray would develop some trade value.
I would have traded Ray prior to the season just to save his contract, but what would have been the point in releasing him and paying him for nothing? It’s not as if he were truly blocking anyone, particularly after Kevin Frandsen went down to injury.
Counter point - Just to be ornery.
If Durham was D.F.Aed before the season maybe Frandsen would have been playing mostly at second, and not being moved all over the freaking diamond, and thus not been in a position to get hurt. Of Coarse I have no irrefutable facts farther my point but then there are no available irrefutable facts to disprove it either.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
I agree
I agree that had Ray Durham been released this spring, Kevin Frandsen wouldn’t have gotten injured, which would have allowed the Giants to see that he wasn’t the answer at second base, moving them step closer in their search for the answer. :)
Sir, I believe we have a consensus.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Ford was rated
as the Fastest Baserunner and Best Defensive Outfielder in the Brewers org. by Baseball America.
As for Hammond, the only positive thing is that he is from around here. Otherwise, he’s a 26-year-old pitcher who was called up to AAA ball this year and has stunk it up.
SPEED AND DEFENSE!!!!!11111
We just traded for Calvin Murray.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 20, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
heh, brewers fans aren’t very happy with the trade, so I’m happy.
by i wish we were good on Jul 20, 2008 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
Good deal
If the Brewers pick up all of Durham’s salary, I think this could be a good deal for the Giants. I’m not sold on the high-strikeout Ford, but he has at least Burriss/Velez/McBryde speed. I think Hammond could be the key to the deal.
Hammond was ranked the Brewers’ #7 prospect two winters ago before posting a 4.79 ERA in AA in 2007. This year he was 3.45 in AA with nearly a strikeout per inning, and even though his ERA is an horrendous 7.41 in AAA, he has struck out 20 while walking only five in 17 innings.
I think Hammond gives the Giants added pitching depth should they choose to trade a starter over the winter before Bumgarner, Alderson or Sosa is ready to take a rotation spot.
Of course it would be even nicer if Taschner is indeed part of the deal, as well as the Brewers’ catching prospect.
Brew Crew Ball member visiting again...
We’re not too happy about having to give up Hammond if the deal is just for Durham. The only way it really makes sense is if the Giants pick up a bunch of Durham’s salary. Hammond had really good numbers at AA (3.45 ERA, 88 innings, 78 Ks, 33 BB) this year but struggled after his promotion to AAA. He could be a decent bottom of the rotation starter or solid bullpen guy next year. He’s not really a hard throwing lefty, but he’s a decent option to have.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
hammond is the definition of replacement player.
i’m not concerned about giving him up, i’m actually happy to see him leave, because it was clear the organization put a little too much stock in his spring training performance.
the thing i don’t like is the potential that Weeks loses ABs to Durham, or the potential that we have a tony graffanino situation where we offer arbitration and to our amazement he accepts.
ZiPS
weeks .254/.363/.422
durham .242/.319/.382
counsell .232/.307/.315
dillon .280/.338/.449
i hope this is a move just for the sake of putting someone in the clubhouse that rickie can look at as a mentor.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
yeah, Hammond isn't that much of a loss
it’s just I thought we could get Durham for Ford straight up, basically picking up his contract while compensating the Giants a little with a high reward guy. Hammond probably isn’t more than a replacement player, as you said, but obviously giving up only Ford is better than giving up Ford and Hammond.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
Hammond looks a lot like the Brewer version of Pat Misch. I would be annoyed if we traded Misch but that’s mainly because we lack depth at the back of the rotation. He’s not a player you’re ever really going to regret giving up.
you can't block the Bocock
Exactly
I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 [with] along
withBocock.
There, I fixed it.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
i interpreted differently
I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 21, 2008 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I read it as this
I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.
I regret this thread
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 21, 2008 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions
What
What would make us think that Darren Ford would be a high-reward guy? It appears to me that his ceiling would be as an average major league starter, maybe just above due to his defense and speed.
I actually like the acquisition of Hammond better. Since reaching High A, Ford’s average has been .231 and .230. His high strikeouts don’t seem to suggest a high average in the future.
I phrased that "nicely"
what I mean is that he sucks, but if he ever figures out how to make some better contact, his uber-fastness could make him a good player. So, by high reward, I mean that he probably will amount to nothing but has a really small chance of being a star.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
To be fair, Durham’s a much better player than those ZIPS are giving him credit for (which must be heavily weighting his truly awful, but flukey 2007). Look at his OPS+ numbers since joining the Giants: 111, 117, 104, 127, 65, 112. One of those numbers stands out and it’s not 2008.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
True. Everyone wants Durham to be terrible, but the man has been consistently good and has a .385 (!) OBP this year. No, his defense isn’t stellar, but it isn’t thaaat bad.
I understand how Brewers fans wouldn’t want to empty their farm system for Durham, but there’s going to be a bit of a premium to get Durham and his .385 OBP now while the Brew Crew chases the Cubs.
Hammond may be a useful 5th/spot/swingman kind of guy, but Ford is useless filler, and the Brewers have starters coming out of their ears.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 20, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
was he hurt in ‘07?
2008 = .351 babip, career high walk rate.
what would you expect from durham for the rest of the year as a brewer?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
If the plan is toplatoon him with Weeks
I’d expect more of the same, possibly with a little power spike as he gets away from ATT’s murderous right field power alley.
I could see some regression if he’s playing full-time, but probably still better than Weeks as done to this point.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
It will be fun for Brewer fans to try figure out who has the worse defense of the two.
you can't block the Bocock
Yeah, championships
are won based on ZiPS projections.
Like ZiPS, I thought Durham was toast too, based on his very poor line drive rate, and declining home run power, in 2007. Apparently, he’s not. I’m wrong. ZiPS is wrong.
Meanwhile, Weeks, has been a huge disappointment, not just this year, but over his career. Offensively, he’s nothing special. Defensively, while he might have improved on previous years, he’s still pretty poor. He’s not a good enough offensive player to make up for his D. For all his potential, he’s still not even a league average player. He will have 3 years of service time by the end of this season, making him eligible for arb.
Increasingly, Weeks is not looking like a player you build a team around. Why let his poor performance jeopardise a shot at contention?
Furthermore, he’s approaching the point where he’s getting more expensive, and the Brewers have a possible replacement for him who’s going to be ready soon: Alcides Escobar is doing well in the minors; the Brewers could move Hardy over to 2b with Escobar at SS. It might be time to consider trading Weeks while other teams still like his potential.
And seriously, it’s not as if the Brewers are giving up any of Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Jeffres, or even Cole Gillespie or Lorenzo Cain, or Brantley, for Durham.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
About Weeks
I understand your theories, and a lot of Brewer fans agree but, check out this stretch at the end of last year for Rickie. He OPSed almost 1.000 for about 2 months with a .442 OBP. The potential is there for him to just go on an insane rampage again.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
Yeah, I know about that stretch
That stretch had me hoping that he had finally broken out, and lusting after him.
The potential is certainly there. But except for a short spurt here and there, he’s never really fulfilled that potential. And his D is still very much a work in progress. He’s still towards the bottom tier of MLB SS, so to be just an average player, he basically needs to provide as much offensive value as he did in 2007.
And the Brewers do need to consider what to do with him, Hardy, and Escobar. Hardy will have 4 years of service time at the end of this season.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I mean MLB 2b obviously
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Weeks, has been a huge disappointment, not just this year, but over his career.
ops+ ‘05, ‘06, ‘07
90, 96, 108
“huge” disappointment is an overstatement, yes? i’ll give you disappointment. It’s true, i think people expect all-star, and 30 HRs from weeks, and he’s not been that player.
but even with a terrible ‘08, he’s a career 94 ops+
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Hammond? I barely know ‘ond!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
DOPE...my bad
Sorry Natto…I forgot about the rules regarding trades. I was trying to claim Ford on another thread, but if you want him, by all means, just lemme know.
Omar...I'm done with you. Hello Darren Ford! Come to papa.
by PacBellBoozer on Jul 20, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn I leave for not even a weekend and everything happens!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 20, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions
Srsly, me too!
That Durham thing, and Dr. Horrible goes to crap. Screw you, Joss Whedon & ur peeps. Part III sucked, and on account of actually being bad as much as of being bullshit.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I missed the Durham trade and Espineli’s debut. All to watch a marathon of shitty horror movies at the Castro Theatre and raise money for the fight against HIV/AIDS. What a gyp.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 20, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Though I guess the bit with Penny shouldn’t come as any sort of shock. He does that “plot twist” with everything he writes.
Yeah… it was just that the songs were bad and the writing was subpar… on top of the B. S. tonal sea change.
I mean, why did the songs in part III have to suck? At least those could have been good.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
This doesn't merit another fanpost.
So I’m calling for an open trade evaluation/lobbying for replacement thread.
I want Travis Denker back up.
you can't block the Bocock
ps
looks like we don’t have to pay any of Durham’s remaining salary.
Good Job, Sabean.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 20, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I knew there was a bright side to the losing streak
A few weeks ago, the Giants were considered possible contenders in the moribund National League West, but they appear to be in “sell” mode after losing nine of their past 10 games and remaining eight games behind first in the division.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
Giants are paying half of Durham's salary
Per Schulman:
Despite an initial report that no cash would be included in the deal, the Giants will send approximately half of the $3 million remaining on Durham’s salary to the Brewers.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/20/SPNG11SC7K.DTL&tsp=1
Hey $1.5 mil still isn’t that bad.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 20, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Roster Implications
As far as I can tell neither Ford nor Hammond are taking up a spot on the 40-Man Roster. And the Giants were at 40, IRC. Roberts to 60-Day DL was -1, Espinelli up +1, Durham gone -1, Roberts back up when he come off the DL, +1 and the 40 is back at 40. Add in a Yabu DL to clear 25-Man roster space for Espinelli. Is that what we’ve heard over the last two days?
Castillo hits doubles.
Clunkers
We receive a couple of clunkers in what was obviously a salary dump – or part of a salary dump. Now take that money and sign some of our recently drafted players!!! Ford is just another fast guy who can’t figure out how to consistently get on base. Hammond is a soft throwing lefty that has stunk it up in AAA. I hope Ray does well in the penant race.
Actually
Actually, Steve Hammond had one stinker (among his four) in AAA, giving up eight hits, three walks and eight runs in just four innings. Aside from that one horrendous start, he has a 4.15 ERA in 13 innings, striking out 17 while walking just two and yielding 16 hits.
The one disturbing factor is that he has yielded six home runs in his 17 innings overall, but he gave up only five in 88.2 innings in AA. Overall he has yielded 11 blasts in 105.2 innings, which isn’t bad.
I don’t consider Steve to be a great prospect, but I think if one looks beneath the surface, he sees some good things Hammond has done in AAA. Not TOO many. :) But some.
After thinking about this trade, I’m liking it. Not loving it, but liking it.
This is one place I do agree with Sharksrog, I like Hammond a lot more than than I do Ford. Hammond has a very solid track record before the past couple of years, and while he’s not overwhelming, there are things to like (even if he’s quite similar to Misch).
Even if the pieces are a bit superfluous to current minor leaguers, it’s something, and the depth isn’t a bad thing, as well as it sending the right message to Giants fans that the team is indeed selling this deadline.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
Depth isn't a bad thing
Especially since Misch and Hennessey (and maybe even Corriea), seemed to have lost the spark that made them good relief/effective 5th starter candidates. In the last month or so, the AAA starter pool started to lack some depth. I like the Hammond recharge.
Castillo hits doubles.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
