McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: 21 Days Later, Wolves win. Bar-right-arrows

Just Durham..

Gir-and-pig_tiny by pittsburghian on

Apparently, the Brew Crew blogs have Taschner still warming up for the Giants, so it looks like its a more direct swap of Durham fro Hammond and Ford, with the question of how much money had to be sent over, if anything. This doesn't mean that something else may go down from the pitching end, as rumor had it that a lefty reliever was being called up for the Giants. Then again, with Durham out I can see a need to restock the bull pen anyways with the extra space.

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/default.aspx

I'm also wondering what this will mean come Tuesday/Wednesday when Roberts is due to activated. Perhaps then we'll lose someone else down to the minors unless another trade can be made.

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

2 recs | Comment 83 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

If this is true

Then it is a definite winner. It’s like taking out the trash and finding two prospects leaning against the dumpster. That Ford guy looks intriguing, SPEEEED, and Hammond may be of some service.

by positiveuphemism on Jul 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT   0 recs

You sure it’s not like taking out the trash and having the trash can spit out another full bag back at you?

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Jul 20, 2008 10:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But at least you don’t know what’s inside.
It’s probably more garbage, but there’s always a small chance you could find something useful.

by DesertFox on Jul 20, 2008 10:53 AM PDT to parent up   1 recs

Ford..

Well, certain Fords are known for their speed, ok for cornering, but what about mileage? Just saying…

by pittsburghian on Jul 20, 2008 10:51 AM PDT   0 recs

best part of that trade is the fact that Hammond is from Vallejo

by sfgiants114 on Jul 20, 2008 11:00 AM PDT   0 recs

So is Sabathia. Think we could just grab him instead and the Brewers wouldn’t notice?

by jcb9 on Jul 20, 2008 11:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no...

the team bus would be going noticeably faster with him gone. We’d need some sandbags to take his place so they don’t actually notice until theyre in Milwaukee

by boonitez on Jul 20, 2008 12:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He's also a former teammate of Bowker's at Long Beach State

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!

by BruteSentiment on Jul 20, 2008 11:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hammond

Sorry to rain on the parade, he’s actually from Martinez, Ca, maybe born in Vallejo, but not so much from there. I played with him from when we were 10, up through high school at Alhambra, so I can say for sure, not from Vallejo.

I’ve seen him pitch a lot, and a lot recently. I don’t know if he will be anything more than a middle starter or bullpen guy, but I know I am rooting for him.

I am excited though, we just dumped Ray and actually got breathing humans back!

by thethrill22 on Jul 20, 2008 12:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Thrill

Thrill, what year did you graduate from Alhambra? I would be willing to bet you know my son, who was Salutatorian in 2000.

So maybe Steve has done as Tug McGraw did—move from Martinez to Vallejo. Joe DiMaggio, of course, moved farther west.

As for Hammond, I see him as providing depth should the Giants trade a starter prior to the arrival of Mad Bum, Timmy Two and Henry Sosa.

I thought Mike Lawson was the top athlete at Alhambra during your era, but it sounds as if Steve has had the staying power.

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I graduated in 1999

and you are correct, at the time, Mike Lawson was the best athlete at Alhambra. Steve as you might know, was decent, but we never figured any of us would go on longer than junior college. He had a lot of arm troubles, then after three or four years at Sac City, his arm healed. He went to Long Beach, and became pretty damn good, and got drafted by the Brewers, and now, finds himself somewhere in the system of his favorite team. Pretty cool if you ask me. And yes, I probably do know your son, whats his name?

by thethrill22 on Jul 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah he was born in Vallejo according to milb.com…. I guess i should have clarified that it was the birthplace, not where he was raised

by sfgiants114 on Jul 20, 2008 6:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Alhambra

So you graduated with Cal, right? I ran into Cal at the Virginia Hills Safeway a few months ago. His sister is now an assistant coach on the girls’ basketball team. What a fox, if you’re tall enough for her. :)

My son is Aaron. You probably know who he is.

I just heard from my daughter (Class of 2003) that a friend of hers had a crush on Steve and crank called him saying to meet her (without identifying herself) at the Westaire pool.

Small world, isn’t it?

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 11:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

best part of the trade

is that we actually get two players for someone we all wished would be DFA before the first pitch of the season

by SFGAmsterdam on Jul 20, 2008 11:03 AM PDT   0 recs

EXACTLY. I doubt anyone would have believed at the beginning of the year that in July that Ray Durham would be traded for two top 30 prospects from the Brewers.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 20, 2008 11:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not exactly

We all didn’t want to see Ray Durham DFA’d before the season. The wiser among us hoped Ray would develop some trade value.

I would have traded Ray prior to the season just to save his contract, but what would have been the point in releasing him and paying him for nothing? It’s not as if he were truly blocking anyone, particularly after Kevin Frandsen went down to injury.

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Counter point - Just to be ornery.

If Durham was D.F.Aed before the season maybe Frandsen would have been playing mostly at second, and not being moved all over the freaking diamond, and thus not been in a position to get hurt. Of Coarse I have no irrefutable facts farther my point but then there are no available irrefutable facts to disprove it either.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on Jul 21, 2008 8:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

I agree that had Ray Durham been released this spring, Kevin Frandsen wouldn’t have gotten injured, which would have allowed the Giants to see that he wasn’t the answer at second base, moving them step closer in their search for the answer. :)

by sharksrog on Jul 21, 2008 7:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sir, I believe we have a consensus.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 7:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ford was rated

as the Fastest Baserunner and Best Defensive Outfielder in the Brewers org. by Baseball America.

As for Hammond, the only positive thing is that he is from around here. Otherwise, he’s a 26-year-old pitcher who was called up to AAA ball this year and has stunk it up.

by lincecumania on Jul 20, 2008 11:23 AM PDT   0 recs

SPEED AND DEFENSE!!!!!11111

We just traded for Calvin Murray.

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 20, 2008 11:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, the organization was getting desperately short on finesse pitchers and speedy outfielders who can’t hit.

by Evan on Jul 20, 2008 11:29 AM PDT   0 recs

heh, brewers fans aren’t very happy with the trade, so I’m happy.

by i wish we were good on Jul 20, 2008 11:35 AM PDT   0 recs

Good deal

If the Brewers pick up all of Durham’s salary, I think this could be a good deal for the Giants. I’m not sold on the high-strikeout Ford, but he has at least Burriss/Velez/McBryde speed. I think Hammond could be the key to the deal.

Hammond was ranked the Brewers’ #7 prospect two winters ago before posting a 4.79 ERA in AA in 2007. This year he was 3.45 in AA with nearly a strikeout per inning, and even though his ERA is an horrendous 7.41 in AAA, he has struck out 20 while walking only five in 17 innings.

I think Hammond gives the Giants added pitching depth should they choose to trade a starter over the winter before Bumgarner, Alderson or Sosa is ready to take a rotation spot.

Of course it would be even nicer if Taschner is indeed part of the deal, as well as the Brewers’ catching prospect.

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 11:36 AM PDT   0 recs

Brew Crew Ball member visiting again...

We’re not too happy about having to give up Hammond if the deal is just for Durham. The only way it really makes sense is if the Giants pick up a bunch of Durham’s salary. Hammond had really good numbers at AA (3.45 ERA, 88 innings, 78 Ks, 33 BB) this year but struggled after his promotion to AAA. He could be a decent bottom of the rotation starter or solid bullpen guy next year. He’s not really a hard throwing lefty, but he’s a decent option to have.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 20, 2008 11:53 AM PDT   0 recs

hammond is the definition of replacement player.

i’m not concerned about giving him up, i’m actually happy to see him leave, because it was clear the organization put a little too much stock in his spring training performance.

the thing i don’t like is the potential that Weeks loses ABs to Durham, or the potential that we have a tony graffanino situation where we offer arbitration and to our amazement he accepts.

ZiPS
weeks .254/.363/.422
durham .242/.319/.382
counsell .232/.307/.315
dillon .280/.338/.449

i hope this is a move just for the sake of putting someone in the clubhouse that rickie can look at as a mentor.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, Hammond isn't that much of a loss

it’s just I thought we could get Durham for Ford straight up, basically picking up his contract while compensating the Giants a little with a high reward guy. Hammond probably isn’t more than a replacement player, as you said, but obviously giving up only Ford is better than giving up Ford and Hammond.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 20, 2008 12:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hammond looks a lot like the Brewer version of Pat Misch. I would be annoyed if we traded Misch but that’s mainly because we lack depth at the back of the rotation. He’s not a player you’re ever really going to regret giving up.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 12:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ever

Ever is a long, long time.

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly

I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

this

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 3:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 [with] along with Bocock.

There, I fixed it.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i interpreted differently

I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.

by lincypoo i wuv u on Jul 21, 2008 12:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I read it as this

I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.

Farewell, Ray. We'll miss your smile and your sugar.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 21, 2008 12:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I regret this thread

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.

by S.F. Giangst on Jul 21, 2008 2:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hehe
I think we’ll regret it when Hammond is inducted into the hall of fame in 2031 along with Bocock.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 21, 2008 5:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What

What would make us think that Darren Ford would be a high-reward guy? It appears to me that his ceiling would be as an average major league starter, maybe just above due to his defense and speed.

I actually like the acquisition of Hammond better. Since reaching High A, Ford’s average has been .231 and .230. His high strikeouts don’t seem to suggest a high average in the future.

by sharksrog on Jul 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I phrased that "nicely"

what I mean is that he sucks, but if he ever figures out how to make some better contact, his uber-fastness could make him a good player. So, by high reward, I mean that he probably will amount to nothing but has a really small chance of being a star.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 20, 2008 12:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To be fair, Durham’s a much better player than those ZIPS are giving him credit for (which must be heavily weighting his truly awful, but flukey 2007). Look at his OPS+ numbers since joining the Giants: 111, 117, 104, 127, 65, 112. One of those numbers stands out and it’s not 2008.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 20, 2008 12:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

True. Everyone wants Durham to be terrible, but the man has been consistently good and has a .385 (!) OBP this year. No, his defense isn’t stellar, but it isn’t thaaat bad.

I understand how Brewers fans wouldn’t want to empty their farm system for Durham, but there’s going to be a bit of a premium to get Durham and his .385 OBP now while the Brew Crew chases the Cubs.

Hammond may be a useful 5th/spot/swingman kind of guy, but Ford is useless filler, and the Brewers have starters coming out of their ears.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 20, 2008 12:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

was he hurt in ‘07?

2008 = .351 babip, career high walk rate.

what would you expect from durham for the rest of the year as a brewer?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 20, 2008 4:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If the plan is toplatoon him with Weeks

I’d expect more of the same, possibly with a little power spike as he gets away from ATT’s murderous right field power alley.

I could see some regression if he’s playing full-time, but probably still better than Weeks as done to this point.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jul 20, 2008 5:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It will be fun for Brewer fans to try figure out who has the worse defense of the two.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 12:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Durham is about due for one of his streaks were he uses his glove well for a 2-5 weeks. That should add to the "fun" of this game.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, championships

are won based on ZiPS projections.

Like ZiPS, I thought Durham was toast too, based on his very poor line drive rate, and declining home run power, in 2007. Apparently, he’s not. I’m wrong. ZiPS is wrong.

Meanwhile, Weeks, has been a huge disappointment, not just this year, but over his career. Offensively, he’s nothing special. Defensively, while he might have improved on previous years, he’s still pretty poor. He’s not a good enough offensive player to make up for his D. For all his potential, he’s still not even a league average player. He will have 3 years of service time by the end of this season, making him eligible for arb.

Increasingly, Weeks is not looking like a player you build a team around. Why let his poor performance jeopardise a shot at contention?

Furthermore, he’s approaching the point where he’s getting more expensive, and the Brewers have a possible replacement for him who’s going to be ready soon: Alcides Escobar is doing well in the minors; the Brewers could move Hardy over to 2b with Escobar at SS. It might be time to consider trading Weeks while other teams still like his potential.

And seriously, it’s not as if the Brewers are giving up any of Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Jeffres, or even Cole Gillespie or Lorenzo Cain, or Brantley, for Durham.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 12:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

About Weeks

I understand your theories, and a lot of Brewer fans agree but, check out this stretch at the end of last year for Rickie. He OPSed almost 1.000 for about 2 months with a .442 OBP. The potential is there for him to just go on an insane rampage again.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 20, 2008 12:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I know about that stretch

That stretch had me hoping that he had finally broken out, and lusting after him.

The potential is certainly there. But except for a short spurt here and there, he’s never really fulfilled that potential. And his D is still very much a work in progress. He’s still towards the bottom tier of MLB SS, so to be just an average player, he basically needs to provide as much offensive value as he did in 2007.

And the Brewers do need to consider what to do with him, Hardy, and Escobar. Hardy will have 4 years of service time at the end of this season.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 1:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I mean MLB 2b obviously

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 20, 2008 1:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Weeks, has been a huge disappointment, not just this year, but over his career.

ops+ ‘05, ‘06, ‘07
90, 96, 108

“huge” disappointment is an overstatement, yes? i’ll give you disappointment. It’s true, i think people expect all-star, and 30 HRs from weeks, and he’s not been that player.

but even with a terrible ‘08, he’s a career 94 ops+

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 20, 2008 4:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

that’s a lot worse than what you can expect out of Durham.

I would play Weeks too, but Durham’s a very good insurence policy.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think he meant only in compared to what Weeks potentional could be. Not in terms of a if Weeks was a Bust or not. But great way to keep us honest.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Jul 22, 2008 8:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So which guy do I get as my new adoptee? Or do I get both?

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 20, 2008 4:15 PM PDT   0 recs

do you want them?

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure why not. Not like there’s anybody else I can take.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 20, 2008 4:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hammond? I barely know ‘ond!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

DOPE...my bad

Sorry Natto…I forgot about the rules regarding trades. I was trying to claim Ford on another thread, but if you want him, by all means, just lemme know.

Omar...I'm done with you. Hello Darren Ford! Come to papa.

by PacBellBoozer on Jul 20, 2008 9:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you could adopt “Salary Relief”

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn I leave for not even a weekend and everything happens!

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 20, 2008 4:29 PM PDT   0 recs

Srsly, me too!

That Durham thing, and Dr. Horrible goes to crap. Screw you, Joss Whedon & ur peeps. Part III sucked, and on account of actually being bad as much as of being bullshit.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 4:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I missed the Durham trade and Espineli’s debut. All to watch a marathon of shitty horror movies at the Castro Theatre and raise money for the fight against HIV/AIDS. What a gyp.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 20, 2008 4:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank you. Agreed.

by kaliber on Jul 20, 2008 5:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Though I guess the bit with Penny shouldn’t come as any sort of shock. He does that “plot twist” with everything he writes.

by kaliber on Jul 20, 2008 5:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah… it was just that the songs were bad and the writing was subpar… on top of the B. S. tonal sea change.

I mean, why did the songs in part III have to suck? At least those could have been good.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 20, 2008 6:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This doesn't merit another fanpost.

So I’m calling for an open trade evaluation/lobbying for replacement thread.

I want Travis Denker back up.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:50 PM PDT   0 recs

ps

looks like we don’t have to pay any of Durham’s remaining salary.

Good Job, Sabean.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

sorta good job, Sabean

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 5:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sabes: Respekt?

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 20, 2008 5:18 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

lolsabeans

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 20, 2008 5:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Laptop Sabes

is my fave.

Bengie: Like an Aurilia kidney stone, slow-moving and tough to get out.

by juanboy on Jul 20, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I knew there was a bright side to the losing streak
A few weeks ago, the Giants were considered possible contenders in the moribund National League West, but they appear to be in “sell” mode after losing nine of their past 10 games and remaining eight games behind first in the division.

"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

by achiappanza on Jul 20, 2008 7:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Giants are paying half of Durham's salary

Per Schulman:

Despite an initial report that no cash would be included in the deal, the Giants will send approximately half of the $3 million remaining on Durham’s salary to the Brewers.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/20/SPNG11SC7K.DTL&tsp=1

by KCE on Jul 20, 2008 5:22 PM PDT   0 recs

Hey $1.5 mil still isn’t that bad.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists