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Trade with Milwaukee done?

Smithrev_tiny by Madtown Bomber on

WSSP 1250 AM in Milwaukee is reporting that Milwaukee Brewers and the San Francisco Giants are close to a deal that would send Milwaukee's Double A Catcher Angel Salome, Single A prospect Outfielder/speedster Darren Ford, and Triple A First Baseman Brad Nelson to the Giants for Second Baseman Ray Durham, Reliever Jack Taschner, and a PTBNL. 

Here is the link to the Brewers Beat Writer Tom Haudicourt's blog at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal.  Where he talks about the possible trade.

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/07/19/it-could-be-a-minor-deal.aspx

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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That’s odd, because MLB Trade Rumors says that Darren Ford is headed to the A’s for Huston Street…

Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on Jul 19, 2008 5:42 PM PDT   0 recs

WSSP is now reporting that the PTBNL is going to be between Matt Downs or Travis Denker.

Good luck getting Escobar or Gamel from Milwaukee. After the LaPorta deal those two are untouchable. In the CC Sabathia deal Escobar was untouchable period as it is likely he will the be the starting shortstop for the Brewers next year with Hardy either being dealt or moved to third base.

Yip Cabbage

by Madtown Bomber on Jul 19, 2008 5:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Fresno line-up

Denker is in the starting line-up and do not see Downs

by wilriv21 on Jul 19, 2008 6:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Downs sent to San Jose per Brute.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.

by sfgreg on Jul 19, 2008 6:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Starting at 3b for Little Giants tonight

by wilriv21 on Jul 19, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Noooo….not Matt Downs!!!!

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Jul 20, 2008 6:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Salome.

I don’t get including Downs or Denker. I wouldn’t trade either of those guys straight up for Nelson or Ford.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 5:55 PM PDT   0 recs

Doing a search

Here is some scoop on the prospects:

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewPower50.do

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/265240.html

http://www.moundtalk.com/prospects/milwaukee-brewers-top-10-prospects-2008/

http://brewersfanatics.blogspot.com/2008/07/prospect-watch-top-10-prospects.html

Some interesting things to consider is how the Giants view their future catching prospects – with Pablito at AA and the still unsigned Gerald Posey. Does this mean a move to 1b or 3b for Pablito? Are the Giants hedging their bets on the signing of Posey? Oh yeah, and what team couldn’t use another speedy defensive minded CF?

by wilriv21 on Jul 19, 2008 5:55 PM PDT   0 recs

I don’t think it means anything than trying to add talent. Salome has a good defensive reputation and has hit well so far in the minors.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 5:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

good defensive reputation? I’ve heard he’s alright behind the dish, but has a below-average arm.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 6:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Umm not sure where you heard that. His arm is good, its his accuracy of throws which lags. He has some things to work on behind the plate though, such as blocking balls. But he has an average in the minors over .300 thru AA and despite being 5’7 has some pop.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 6:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

oh

i love his bat, don’t get me wrong. he needs to be a bit more patient, but that’s okay.

BA said in their evaluation he has below average arm strength and lacks in accuracy

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 7:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have the 08 handbook right here…they say he has well above average arm strength….

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i am

officially illiterate.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 7:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh yeah, and what team couldn’t use another speedy defensive minded CF?

I know the answer to that one.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 6:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is there any chance we can stuff Dave Roberts in a duffel bag and throw him in a pile of Taschner’s luggage?

by Nellieball on Jul 19, 2008 6:02 PM PDT   0 recs

The same radio station is reporting Salome and Ford were held out of their respective games tonight which means something is up.

Yip Cabbage

by Madtown Bomber on Jul 19, 2008 6:07 PM PDT   0 recs

Salome alone seems like a good get for a rental of Durham and a relief pitcher no?

Throw in Ford, who if he can ever improve his contact rate (doubt it) could be a future leadoff man in CF.

And then Nelson, who is a backup at best if not an AAAA player.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 6:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Yeah, I’m down with that. Giving up Downs or Denker would suck, but oh well, they’re both most likely backups in the long-run anyway – backup infielders aren’t exactly in scarce supply.

by jcb9 on Jul 19, 2008 6:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I really like Matt Downs, but I agree both are likely to only be backups in the future and there’s plenty of guys like that available haha. And to get anything for Durham let alone some decent mid level prospects isn’t bad at all.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 6:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm skeptical

They have Weeks at 2B and they have Stetter and Shouse as the lefties in their pen.

Since there were some Street to Brewers rumors earlier today, I’m going to guess it’s Salome + Nelson for Street and Ford for Durham.

by giants92388 on Jul 19, 2008 6:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Well, Weeks isn’t exactly a world-killer at the moment – he’s hitting .217 with a sub-.700 OPS. Some mentions of possible trades have indicated the Brewers would use Durham off the bench, though.

by jcb9 on Jul 19, 2008 6:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Billy Beane isn't an idiot

That is nowhere near enough for Street.

by iamawesomer on Jul 19, 2008 6:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Street isn’t very good. He doesn’t even have closer stuff. His value is getting worse and worse.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 6:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he’s better than nothing. Ford’s the kind of player you receive as part of a salary dump.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 7:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bad rumor it seems eh? Especially when Street’s been linked to TB too.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Your last sentence is the only thing right

Only because he’s been “blowing saves” by giving up a bunch of dinky hits and has been unlucky with the longball.

06, 07, 08 for Street
Street’s K/9: 8.53, 11.34, 9.00
Street’s BB/9: 1.66, 2.16, 2.36
Street’s ERA: 3.31, 2.88, 4.07

by iamawesomer on Jul 19, 2008 7:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The guy isn’t that good. I know plenty of A’s fans who hate his guts.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m his fantasy owner and I’m plenty dissappointed in him.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 7:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Which obviously means he isn’t any good….. Seriously, what are you talking about? Street is VERY good.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 7:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s not even the best closer in his own division. And I can think of plenty of set up men that would be better than him who aren’t even closers yet. The only good thing going for him is that he’s young. He’s solid but nothing special or even good.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s not even the best closer in his own division.

That’s the fucking stupidest rationale I’ve ever heard. Congrats. If you don’t think Street is a good pitcher, then you have no clue how to evaluate pitchers.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 7:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Guess it entirely depends on what your definition of “good” is.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This isn’t something subjective. It’s a fact that Street is a very good pitcher. Any actual analysis, other than, “Well some A’s fans don’t like him,” shows that.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Its not a fact, its subjective entirely. If you think a closer with low 90s stuff and no true out pitch, plus one who struggles against LHB’s is a very good pitcher, more power too you. I don’t consider someone who’s middle of the road to be a VERY GOOD PITCHER.

The guy is completely overrated and has been for quite some time. He’s like a young Todd Jones. Average stuff and often shaky performances.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s funny, because the numbers say that he’s a guy who strikes out a bunch of hitters, doesn’t walk many, and has an acceptable goundball rate. In other words, the numbers say he’s very good. If you can’t disassociate personal feelings about a player from your analysis of the player, this is what happens. You come to wrong conclusions and look stupid.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 8:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I know what the numbers say. But they don’t always tell the whole story do they?

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 8:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

At the major league level they tell quite a lot. And in this case, they say the exact opposite of what you think.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 8:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No sorry they don’t. You shouldn’t rely solely on statistics for evaluation.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 8:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You really shouldn’t +1 this comment, it makes you look stupid. At the major league level, statistics are very important. In fact, they are the most important thing if you have a good enough sample size.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 20, 2008 10:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Apparently the Brewers scouts agree with me, not you.
9:31pm: An update from Haudricourt. He believes the Brewers are working on a smaller deal for Jack Taschner or Ray Durham, rather than Street.

Haudricourt says the Brewers scouted Street but the scouts were not impressed. He’s not coming to Milwaukee.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Unfounded rumor? Seconds please. You are clueless and you don’t understand how baseball works.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 9:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If you think the Brewers beat writer would lie than ok.

I find it funny that you somehow think you know how baseball works.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 9:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

One of us thinks Huston Street isn’t a good pitcher, in spite of all the evidence that he is. I’m done trying to teach you, I’d rather pound nails through my dick.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 19, 2008 9:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Huston Street's not that good, man...

I’d side with Hobbes on that one…

by boonitez on Jul 19, 2008 11:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No one has yet made a good argument as to why Street isn’t good. There’s been a bunch of, “He’s not that good,” and there’s me saying, “His numbers are very good, you’re stupid.” Please explain why he isn’t good. Use facts and analysis please.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 20, 2008 10:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok here's a quick stat

I understand saves aren’t a good metric for measuring a closers worth, but blown saves are. Blown saves make the closer himself solely responsible (unless he has shitty D, which is not the case with the A’s), whereas the closer’s total of saves relies on how good the team is. Now to the point. Huston has 5. That’s the worst in the AL. He also now has a history of injury because of last year. That’s one reason I don’t think he’s that good.

by boonitez on Jul 20, 2008 1:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Blown saves aren’t a good stat. He does have an injury history, this is the first good point made against Huston Street.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 20, 2008 8:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The A's have solid D

Blown saves are usually a pretty fair stat for teams with good D.

by boonitez on Jul 20, 2008 9:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No, no they aren’t, regardless of defense.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 20, 2008 11:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So you're saying...

it’s…not his fault if he lets up an earned run in a clutch situation? If the closer’s defense holds up for him who else’s friggin fault could it be? The fans’? The point of the saves stat is to measure a closer’s worth in clutch situations. The only things that really can throw off save stats are crappy teams that present the closer no save oppurtunities or teams with shitty defense that fuck up the save oppurtunities for the closer. How are blown saves a bad stat? A little explanation as to why they’re bad would be nice instead of just a ‘nah ahhh!!!’

by boonitez on Jul 21, 2008 1:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, I’ll try to explain this. Blown saves are a bad stat because they are too context dependent. Here’s a hypothetical situation:

Player A always comes in with 1 run leads, always pitches 1 inning, and gives up 1 run every 3 outings.

Player B always comes in with 3 run leads, always pitches 1 innings, and gives up 2 runs each outing.

Player A blows 1 out of every 3 saves, Player B never blows any saves. Who is really the better pitcher?

The simple fact is, that while blown saves give us a hazy idea of what happened, they have close to zero predictive value. Strikeout rates, walk rates, and groundball rates are very good predictive tools. You might say he blows too many saves, I would say that if he keeps pitching like he has been, those will happen less frequently.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 21, 2008 9:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he isn’t the best closer in his division? um

K-Rod vs Huston Street
K/G: 9.0 vs. 9.8
WHIP: 1.26 vs. 1.10
xFIP: 4.06 vs. 3.26
BB/G: 5.7 vs. 2.5

Are you kidding me?

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 7:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When healthy Putz is better than both. Morrow will be a stellar closer too.

K-Rod’s struggled a bit with walks this year, but I’d still take him over Street. He’s far more durable and consistent.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 7:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

here

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=putz
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/stats/players/index.php?playerId=1642&firstName=Francisco&lastName=Rodriguez
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/stats/players/index.php?lastName=street

look at the entirety of those. Outside of Putz’s ridiculous 2007, they are all about even. ERA is a poor indicator of success for a relief pitcher, as are saves because they both rely too much on performance from the team around them.

K-rod is just below Putz and Street, but all three are excellent closers without a doubt.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 7:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

K-Rod is the only one who will still likely be a quality closer 2 years from now.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 19, 2008 8:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not a big contract. Putz I doubt will be a closer anymore, he’s struggling to even come back from his injury and for all we know might not be the same ever again in terms of effectiveness.

Street’s stuff has gotten worse since entering the league. If and when he’s traded I don’t see him being a closer for much longer, probably will move to set-up role where he belongs, if not he will be a lower tiered closer, as he pretty much already is.

K-Rod, while his walk rate has been bad this year, I think is good enough still to where he would still be a good closer in the future. He’s never really been injured, he’s durable, he has filthy stuff etc. There’s really no reason to think that he would decline all that much.

by Hobbes2d on Jul 20, 2008 2:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ahh!

K-Rod has been getting worse. The other two have improved since their rookie seasons and will probably get better.

also, K-Rod can’t keep throwing like he does forever. Arms just don’t work like that.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 11:25 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

I also think Huston is severely overrated.

by Nellieball on Jul 19, 2008 7:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he blew another one today, and that was even with the Yankees giving him an out when some kid pinch ran for Giambi and fell down between first and second trying to steal a base. He stinks.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Jul 19, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It seems like every time I go to an A’s game he blows a save, so I am sure that has something to do with my opinion.

by Nellieball on Jul 19, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If the ptbnl is Downs or Denker, I’m less enthusiastic about the trade. Article said Ford’s hitting .230, we don’t need another speedy no hit outfielder. Salome sounds okay, but if we have to give up downs as well as tasch and durham, I’d rather just keep them for now and wait for Pablo/Posey.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jul 19, 2008 6:19 PM PDT   0 recs

I'd rather have Rickie Weeks than all those prospects

what are they going to do with Weeks if they get Durham? Send him down like they did last year?

If Weeks isn’t available that seems like a pretty decent package for Durham, Taschner, and Denker/Downs

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 19, 2008 6:23 PM PDT   0 recs

I think Weeks would still be the starter, unless he hits another extended slump. The Brewers guys are all talking about Durham as a bench player.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 6:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, ok, that makes sense.

I’m just a huge Weeks fan and I would love the Giants to get him

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 19, 2008 6:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe in the off-season, but that would be pretty unlikely in a pennant race.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

what’s not there to like about a guy with declining LD%, increasing K/BB rate and currently hitting .217/.321/.365?

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 6:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

O god

plz don’t reignite another 120+ Richie Weeks debate.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 6:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

120+ comments, that is

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 19, 2008 6:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, they should just give him away

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 19, 2008 6:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Salome is an interesting prospect. He’s hitting .349/.405/.529 as a 22-year-old Double-A.

by Dan from NM on Jul 19, 2008 6:24 PM PDT   0 recs

He served a 50 game suspension for failing a drug test.

by wilriv21 on Jul 19, 2008 6:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I really

could care less about this. he’s really burly and compact and definitely got that way using steroids. As long as he doesn’t get caught doing it again, I could care less.

p.s. as dan from NM points out, the dude is OPSing .934 at AA

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 19, 2008 6:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A move for Salome is clear indication that Pablo will be switching to 1B full time since Salome is only 5’7” and his only clear MLB position would be behind the plate.

I just checked the gametracker on minorleaguebaseball.com and both Ford and Salome are definatly not in their lineups tonight.

Yip Cabbage

by Madtown Bomber on Jul 19, 2008 6:34 PM PDT   0 recs