Phillies acquire Joe Blanton from A's for 3 prospects
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:13 PM PDT
110 comments
The Phillies have reached an agreement with the Oakland Athletics to acquire right-handed pitcher Joe Blanton. Blanton is 5-12 this season after going 14-10 with a 3.95 ERA last season.
The Athletics get second baseman Adrian Cardenas, pitcher Josh Outman and outfielder Matthew Spencer, all minor leaguers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3494315
Pretty good haul for Joe Blanton.
Cardenas profiles as a middle of the order hitting 2b. Has some good pop and ability to get on base via the walk. Biggest issues are his range defensively. He was their #2 prospect.
Outman was the #4 prospect for the Phillies. He's a LHP who throws in the low 90s with a slider and changeup. He profiles as a #3 starter and has been pretty good so far in his minor league career.
Spencer profiles as a RF, who can hit for some power.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
0 recs |
110 comments
Email
Print
Comments
The A’s are stocking up on prospects like crazy.
by xanthan on Jul 17, 2008 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It certainly helps when you have young talent to trade haha. A’s fans are already predicting Ellis and Street are next.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know there’s been a lot of brush fires in Northern California this summer… but has anyone actually checked to see if the Oakland Coliseum is still standing? This is looking like one hell of a fire sale!
by Merope on Jul 17, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my god they're having a fire!!!...
sale.
Oh the burning.
by iamawesomer on Jul 17, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you want to try that a little differently?
I’m looking for something that says “Dad likes leather”.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 18, 2008 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Ellis goes on the market, should the Giants go after him? Of course, they’d have to make sure they can sign an extension.
by cheno on Jul 17, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or they can just try to sign him in the winter when he’s a FA…
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, of course, runs the risk of him not being a free agent.
by cheno on Jul 17, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s unlikely the A’s resign him. They did just trade for Patterson, and while he might not be great, he will be cheap and ready.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of him being traded to another team and them resigning him.
by cheno on Jul 17, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, yeah, that’s a definite possibility.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are some doubts about whether
Not Corey can actually play 2b adequately.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s true, and the defensive downgrade from Ellis to him would be brutal.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 18, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s available as a free agent, I’d definitely try to sign him. I’m not excited enough by him to want to trade talent for him and then also have to worry about re-signing him, though.
by jcb9 on Jul 17, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stay thirsty, Billy Beane.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Jul 17, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s a lover not a fighter. But he’s also a fighter, so don’t get any ideas.
by tyrannoman on Jul 18, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Cardenas for Blanton is a coup
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 17, 2008 4:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This was almost like your dream!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 17, 2008 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, that means there isn’t going to be a whole lot coming back for Matt Cain.
by Grant on Jul 17, 2008 4:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Darn, we'll just have to keep him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 17, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong pitcher
The Giants were talking about trading the wrong pitcher last winter.
by sharksrog on Jul 17, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NL is stealing all of the AL's pitching.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Jul 17, 2008 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing about this trade is that whoever the A’s call up from AAA will probably pitch just as well as Blanton had in the first half
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on Jul 17, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, the funny thing is that they’re probably going to call up Gio Gonzalez, who is an ex-Phillies prospect!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 17, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’s twice an ex-White Sox prospect!
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’s probably going to pitch better than Blanton.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So: Can the A’s still contend? Or will they just trade off more players?
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Jul 17, 2008 4:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably trade off players. They have a lot of guys who could get something good back. Duscherer, Street, Ellis, some of their older pen arms. Crosby could too if they had a SS to replace him with. And SS is a position that’s got high demand and low quality right now. When Jack Wilson is a big name on the trade market you know it can’t be too good.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were fringely contending to begin with
Also Blanton was kinda teh suck this year and I’m not sure his 4.48 K/9 (less than a batter an inning that’s awful) is gonna rise up anytime soon.
While its not quite at the same level yet it would be like asking this question if the Giants traded Barry Zito.
by iamawesomer on Jul 17, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeaahhh but
his GB/FB rate should progress back to his avg. level and in all, his FIP is just 4.11 (in a down year). He wasn’t all that sucky.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 18, 2008 3:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Most A’s fans are grossly overreacting to half a season’s ERA.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know, he looks like a guy who’s average, at best, and who is going to be getting more expensive.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 18, 2008 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sayig that he's great or even good
but he’s also very likely not a “true” talent 77 ERA+ pitcher, despite what the large majority of fans on Athletics Nation believe. His career FIP is 4.02, 4.11 this season. His career ERA+ is 100. What changed so dramatically, that he’s gone from a 100 ERA+ pitcher to a 77 ERA+ pitcher? The big difference between this season is his baserunner kill rate. Sure maybe he’s just abruptly lost some his skill at killing baserunners. Or, maybe not.
The Phillies back of the rotation is weak.. They have an outstanding overall team ERA+, but that is because Cole Hamels, and a phenomenal bullpen. However bad you think Blanton is, he’s better than Adam Eaton. Sure a guy like Blanton might not be all that useful in the playoffs, but the Phillies need to actually get to the playoffs. The Mets have caught them.
I’m not saying that this a good deal for the Phillies, or a bad deal for the A’s. Just that Blanton is not a 77 ERA+ “true” talent pitcher.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’d agree with everything you said. I have no problem with calling Joe Blanton an approximately league average starter.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 18, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very few starters actually K a batter per inning. 4.48 is, however, less than half a batter per inning, which is pretty darn bad unless you have astronomically low walk rates.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 18, 2008 3:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how much has changed for them, even with the Harden and Blanton trades. What could the A’s realistically count on from Harden in the 2nd half? With his injury history, I wouldn’t be surprised if they got more value from Gallagher in the 2nd half. With Blanton, whoever they call up will likely be able to perform as well, if not better. Their MLB team probably got better today and, at worst, didn’t lose much from the Harden trade.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They pretty much just replace guys with similar players who are younger and more controllable…
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Plus they also get “throw-ins” to sweeten the deal.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even this season,
Blanton’s FIP is 4.11, xFIP 4.45.
The big difference in his performance this year, that is causing the ERA spike, is his left on base rate. From around 68% the previous 2 seasons, to 65.2%. Now maybe something has changed in his pitching ability that is causing that; and if someone has a scouting report, or coaching or training info about him, that would indicate the reason, sure, it’s possible that that decline is not just him going through a poor patch / bad luck.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other key thing is
Blanton might have league average rates for a starter, which is valuable in its own right, but he also ptiches at that level for a high amount of innings. His value because of his ability to eat innings at that pace elevates to an above average pitcher. For one game, sure, league average pitcher (a nice no. 3) but over the course of an entire season Blanton’s value grows exponentially
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Jul 18, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd disagree heavily on the opening interpretations of the three prospects...
I’m not overly impressed with this haul, though it’s not for a very good pitcher right now, either. But middle of the order hitter? Power? Wha?
Cardenas shows some spunk for a 20-year old in High-A. He’s got a good average and OBP, but has only doubles power. He’s showing off some better speed, which would make him much more valuable, and should have 20 SB in a season this year for the first time. In the past, his SB% has not been good, but he’s perfect in 16 attempts this season. He’s a good prospect, but he’s not a middle of the order hitter. #2 sure, maybe leadoff with a better track record for average, or a good #7-8 guy traditionally. But he doesn’t have the power to this #3-6, and he’s unlikely to find it.
Outman is 23 and repeating Double-A. Working mostly as a reliever, he’s had some overall nice stats, but nothing special. He is a lefty and has the expected but not overwhelming split. Spencer is 22 in High-A and is struggling. Neither are anything special, but Outman could be a decent reliever down the road.
Blanton, meanwhile, won’t be the answer for Philly. It gives them some depth and he’ll probably improve upon the performances of Myers and/or Eaton, but that’s a pretty low bar. It gives the Phillies a #4 starter, but it won’t swing the power in the division, and the Phils traded one of their better chips for him.
All in all, Cardenas for Blanton isn’t a bad trade for either Oakland or Philly. But the other two aren’t special prospects that any system should already have. Honestly, in the Giants’ system, Outman might not even be one of the Top 10 relievers. It’ll be decent for the A’s down the stretch, and does clear the road for Gio, but it’s no monster haul.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 17, 2008 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Outman’s a starter, he was moved to the pen supposedly because the Phillies would be using him in that role sometime this season, as he was likely to be one of their first big mid-season call ups.
Spencer was a throw in.
Blanton’s just an innings eater, so I consider getting 2 decent prospects for him to be pretty good, especially when he hasn’t had the best of seasons this year.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
he was moved to the pen because it’s his only legitimate path to a steady major league roll. He’s got extremely pedestrian stuff without any plus pitches, and being a left-hander doesn’t really make that problem go away. As a prospect I don’t see how you could rate him higher than say Ben Snyder.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jul 17, 2008 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman is a lefty who sits in the low 90’s and can hit 95, that seems like a plus pitch to me.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 17, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels and Goldstein seem to disagree with that statement
Sickels giving him a B and Goldstein 3 Stars.
by iamawesomer on Jul 17, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as does BA
They have him pegged as a future #3 starter.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put me in the skeptical boat
a) Cardenas is a good prospect. He has good upside and a decent track record. I’m not quite as down on him as Brute (well, more in the sense where Brute says he could never be a 3-6 hitter) but I’m also not sold he’ll reach that point either. I see him with a career peak of a .305/.360/.465 type of 2B, which is well above average.
b) Outman profiles as a 3…well, I for one don’t think he warrants that claim yet. He has barely maintained a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio during his minor league career and in his 112+ AA IP his K/BB has been below 2. The guy clearly has serious control problems and while he posesses good stuff and a good strike yet, it doesn’t seem great enough to justify his walk rates. His ERA is more deflated than it should be and the best thing he has going for him is his ability to avoid home runs, which is likely aided by pitching in the Eastern League which is notorious for being poor for hitters. The guy might have the upside of a no. 3, but he’ll have to seriously solve his walks issue for me to have that confidence in him.
c) Spencer is having a horrible year and is likely a non-prospect as many addressed
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Jul 17, 2008 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ALSO
I think Blanton is more than just an innings eater. There is a lot of value in eating that many innings and he had quite great 2007 if you ask me.
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Jul 17, 2008 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Blanton's 2007:
abberation, fluke n.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 18, 2008 3:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd say getting anything half way decent for blanton is impressive
as an A’s season ticket holder(only because of convenience), this guy complete garbage. Even the coliseum couldn’t keep him from getting trashed…. he is going to get lit up in philly.
by superk1ng on Jul 17, 2008 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're way overreacting to half a season's ERA
Was Blanton “complete garbage” in 2007? What changed?
Also, all the other parks in the NL East are pitcher’s parks. Shea, Turner, Florida are pitcher’s parks to varying degrees. It’s early days for Washington, but it too looks to be a pitcher’s park.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year he was barely above average
He’s exactly what you want from a #5 starter, a pitcher that eats a ton of innings(which I’d take from Correia), but I would NEVER give up prospects for a #5 pitcher. If Philly fans are expecting anything more, they’re in for a huge disappointment. Philly should be looking for top of the rotation guys not some rotation filler.
by superk1ng on Jul 18, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An above average pitcher
is #5 starter. Yup. Great.
“Philly should be looking for top of the rotation guys not some rotation filler.”
Sure. If an average starter is a #5 starter, WTF is a top of the rotation guy, and where the fark are you going to find him? The teams that do actually have top of the rotation guys don’t give them away.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
above average last year
but not for his career. 100 career ERA+. He’s had 4 seasons: 1 good, 1 average a 2 bad(including this year). Watching him pitch, I’d say he’s closer to the bad pitcher than he is to the decent one. You think he’s decent, that’s fine… I’m just happy I don’t have to watch him anymore.
Phillies rotation is crap. They should have made a run at Harden or anybody else not named Blanton. Hamels is great, of course, but some combination of Meyers, Moyer, Blanton, Eaton and Kendrick isn’t going to cut in the playoffs.
by superk1ng on Jul 18, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
League average
ERA+ for a starting pitcher is around 96-97. The 100 ERA+ is average thing is for ALL pitchers. Relievers put up better ERAs than starters.
Yes, the Phillies rotation is crap. That’s why they need Blanton. Blanton > Adam Eaton. Anyone not named Blanton? Like whom? Jarrod Washburn, whom the Mariners are shopping? Carlos Silva, maybe? A healthy Harden is great. How assured are you that Harden will be healthy over the season?
To be able to “cut” in the playoffs, you need to actually get there first. The Phillies have been caught by the Mets.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the key difference between him and Corriea
well there are many, but Correia can’t eat innings like Blanton. Correia’s control often prevents him from going past the 6th innings in a lot of games, and he has had his health issues.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Kevin Correia never throws over 200 innings in a single season in his career, whereas Blanton is pretty much a lock for 200+ every year
www.wazzel.com (prove your sports knowledge if you can)
by NeifiChicken on Jul 18, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A’s should have name tags on their uniforms. “Hi, my name is __ and I play __“
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
by Kitspool on Jul 17, 2008 5:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Example:
My name is Andy Dick, and I play recklessly and idiotically.
Too soon?
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 17, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman
great name for a pitcher (or Giants hitter)
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 17, 2008 6:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or a guy that just admitted that he’s gay.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 17, 2008 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the last 2 years Beane has traded 6 players (Kendall, Kotsay, Swisher, Haren, Harden and Blanton) for a total of 18 prospects, 9 of whom were ranked top 10 in their organizations by BA and 15 were top 20. I personally don’t think Kendall, Kotsay, or Blanton were worth that much at all and Harden’s health is always a concern. I think Chicago and AZ overpaid for Swisher and Haren. It will take at least 2-3 years to determine if Beane was right or wrong on these, but fuck, he is exciting and I wish he was our GM. I’ve found myself paying a lot more attention to Oakland and their maneuvers than wasting time waiting for Sabean to unload our overpaid veterans that he over-values.
by mark30perq3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Beane were our GM
I think it’s likely both Cain and Lincecum and likely Sanchez are all gone by now.
Which might be the best move for this team…
Only 878 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 17, 2008 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Billy Beane wouldn’t have traded Tim Lincecum.
by sharksrog on Jul 18, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’d probably wait until next year.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 18, 2008 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if he'd kept most, if not all of those players...
...then A’s fans wouldn’t have to wait 2-3 years to see if Beane is ‘right’....they’d be in the playoffs probably this season instead of waiting 2-3 years for most of those prospects to appear, and then another 2 years for most to adjust to the bigs.
Winning later? Maybe. The majority of A’s fans being empty seats or tarps? Definitely.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 17, 2008 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are winning, currently in 2nd place and the A’s fans still don’t go. If they had Haren-Harden-Blanton right now instead Smith-Eveland-Gallagher-Gonzalez they’d be a starter short and I bet Gallagher and Gonzalez will put up better numbers combined in the 2nd half than Blanton and Harden, especially with Harden’s injury history and Blanton moving to a hitter’s park when his away numbers have been much worse in his career than in Oakland’s pitchers park. Having Swisher instead of Carlos Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney in the outfield may have made the A’s a win or 2 better in the first half. On the whole, the A’s are not only just as good without the players they traded, but their farm system is now loaded and their future is much brighter. The evidence is not only in what I said but in the fact that they are 7 games ahead of where they were last year at this point.
by mark30perq3 on Jul 17, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...if we're winning and the fans still don't bother showing up...
...just sell off and hope they’ll root for lesser players while waiting?
I would disagree that this team is ‘just as good’ as they would’ve been with their former players. Kendall I agreed with them trading, with a player like Suzuki in the wings, and that was a smart trade. On that note, though, I wonder if Beane is loving Gonzalez and his four walks in 29 games, and a sub-.300 OBP despite a .274 average.
I hope for Oakland’s sake that the team is getting a share of ticket sales from Sacramento.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 18, 2008 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do have to agree with Gary Rabinich on this one. He’s totally right saying A’s fans have no emotional attachement to any player, because they could be gone (literally) tomorrow. It really makes it feel like you’re rooting for laundry and not a team.
by tyrannoman on Jul 18, 2008 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it ironic that Giants fans were few and far between while the team was playing at Candlestick
but conveniently forget that fact when talking about A’s attendance now.
by Sacpike on Jul 18, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole A's attendance thing
is somewhat overblown when you consider that their payroll, which was around $48 million on opening day, is probably much lower now after their trades (under $40 million?). Between that and the MLB shared revenue they get, it’s hard to imagine they aren’t profitable.
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
by Kitspool on Jul 18, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Met hater, I love the trade for the Phillies. The Mets have no minor league system, so the Phillies can feel free to continue to trade prospects and get better right now. Blanton is going to be much better with the Phillies, even though his ERA might go up because of the ballpark. They are going to score runs, and he won’t have to worry about the DH.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 17, 2008 6:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Please to be explaining how Blanton is going to be much better
Positives: AL to NL
Negatives: Much worse ballpark for flyball pitchers
Much worse defense behind him
OK I missed where you said that his ERA would go up but Blanton would still be better. I think you mean from a wins standpoint then, and I agree with that, though they could’ve just thrown JA Happ in there and probably done comparably while not giving up Cardenas and Outman.
by iamawesomer on Jul 17, 2008 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanton is going to get shelled in that ballpark. Plus I think the AL west does not have the offense top to bottom that the NL east has. Texas is the notable exception, but the Mets have been heating up and the Marlins can mash. Atlanta’s hitting is also top tier in the league when you look at their team OPS at 751. I really hope the Philly fans don’t view Blanton as any type of savior. He is just an innings eater.
by Nellieball on Jul 17, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pat Gillick is silly. He could’ve had Barry Zito for those three suspects, and Barry’s won a Cy Young! How may Cy’s does Blanton have? I’ll tell you….and infinite amount less than Barry Zito, bona fide Cy Young Winner!
by tyrannoman on Jul 17, 2008 8:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are the A's contenders?
or over performing and waiting for a massive letdown. I don’t follow them enough to have any clue, but it seems like Beane has been trading away a lot that could have helped them win this season? Were Swisher, Haren, Harden and Blanton all in their final years? In the past he’s let a few players leave via free agency and picked up the comp picks.
Blahblahblah a team should always be “rebuilding” and stocking the minors with the next great talents, but if “rebuilding” mean tearing down teams before those great talents create truly great and memorable teams is Beane’s plan flawed? Or would the vet’s he traded not have brought home the bacon in any case, Beane’s seen it, predicited and traded the team away to win sometime down the road? It seems like the A’s are getting plenty in return for these trades. But will winning always be “down the road”?
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on Jul 17, 2008 9:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haren was under contract for like the next 4 years or something, at a cheap cost, especially with how good he is. I’m not sure if I’d say he’s a bonafide ace, but he’s as good as a #2 SP your going to find. Swisher also I think was under a deal for a few more years. That’s why Beane was able to get so much back for the both of them. They were good young players who were under contract at a very reasonable price for the next few years. Blanton I think is arbitration eligible, and probably a FA in the near future. I can’t remember if they ever locked him up. Harden has 1 year left on his contract.
I honestly don’t think Beane would be selling this way if he had the actual budget to keep his players. Its pretty much his only route in order to stay competitive, to attempt to re-tool ever couple of years. One has to think with the A’s poor TV/Radio deals that they don’t make very much money through those revenue streams, and they already put a tarp over the whole upper deck which drastically cuts into the crowds they possibly could attract. Not that they could draw 30,000 + anyway. Even with Wolff’s increased spending prior to this year in 06 and 07, they were at a disadvantage I think. Will be interesting to see what happens to the A’s if they’re not able to secure a new stadium in Fremont by 2012 as planned. That goal seems lofty now as we’re quickly approaching 2009….and everyone knows how hard it is to get things done in California.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the end of 2007
Haren was under control for 3 more years, Swisher for 5.
The tarp is not a valid excuse. The A’s voluntarily put that tarp, because it “made sense economically”. Because of “the rules of supply and demand”. They were foolishly trying to manipulate supply, in a bid to drive up ticket prices.
The A’s do a piss poor job of marketing their team and of actually allowing their fans to actually watch the damn team. The TV and radio coverage is horrendously pathetic. Despite the claims of Michael Lewis and Moneyball, MLB teams are in the business of selling jeans.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh....I gree completely with you
The TV and Radio coverage sucks absolute ass for the A’s. It is a bone of serious contention. That being said, if a stadium actually gets built, who knows what deals might spring into action for coverage in the future.
by Sacpike on Jul 18, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i popped over to Athletics Nation to maybe ask them their take on 2008 year of the rebuild – the trade tread is well over 500. So i just scanned through it. seems like some are okay with selling 2008 so they can win it all in 2-3 years. That includes the chance of making it to the playoffs this year, just to lose. Have the A’s been netting Hanley Rodriguez, Longoria, or Bruce type prospects? I think a team should be built to win the division, and then an eye should be made toward getting past the first round.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on Jul 17, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great way to go, if you can afford to hold on to your players
And baseball playoffs weren’t such a crapshoot.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 17, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
I like the random of the Playoffs, but the first round should really be 7 games.
by Nellieball on Jul 17, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know… the last thing that baseball needs is to move in the direction of having a “second season.”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 17, 2008 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah the worst part of the nba
is the fact the play offs last 2 and a half months compared to a 4 month regular season
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 18, 2008 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The length of the NBA postseason doesn't bother me so much as the predictability.
It’s become cliche to compare baseball playoffs to craps, but, relatively speaking, the NBA postseason is like a game of three card monte.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 18, 2008 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which, in my opinion, is the best thing about hockey.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 18, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They haven’t acquired any of those types of prospects. Although Gonzalez should be pretty damn good.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 17, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane's an Effin Idiot
He’s the most overrated GM in the game. It’s ok to trade players for prospects when you’re a bad team, but his arrogance and belief that he’s a genius makes him do ridiculous things to prove that he is. Where would you rank a rotation of Danny Haren, Rich Harden, Joe Blanton and Justin Duscherer?? It would probably be among the best in baseball, and none of them are free agents this year. The A’s easily could have won the World Series the next two years, and instead the genius has decided to field a subpar team. I don’t care how many prospects he’s acquired. Half of them will be busts, because it always turns out that way, and if any of them turn out to be any good, Beane will trade them as soon as they can help him win. The Giants need to start rebuilding because they have to, the A’s didn’t. Can you imagine the uproar if the Giants would have broken apart the Bonds-Kent contenders when they winning 95-100 games a year and took a bunch of kids in return?? But Beane gets carte blanche from everyone to run a franchise into the ground.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 18, 2008 6:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The A's won 95-100
games in 2007?
When the A’s were actually winning 95-100 games, back in the early 2000s, Beane was a buyer. He traded for players like Ray Durham, Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye, Jose Guillen, Jason Kendall. He signed players to FA contracts, including the idiotic Mark Redman contract.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Jul 18, 2008 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We get it, you don’t like Billy Beane and you don’t want to do any research to back up your claims. It’s hilarious that you think they are in this position in spite of the trades he’s made, as opposed to because of them. Also, never mind that many analysts thought Oakland would still be at least a decent team after all the offseason trades had been made.
Swisher for Ryan Sweeney, Gio Gonzalez, and Faustino De Los Santos – Obvious improvement so far, as Sweeney has actually provided about the same amount of value to the big league club as Swisher has, but in 150 fewer PA. Going forward, Gio is likely to get called up now, and he has been both impressive and erratic at AAA, but the talent is obviously there. DLS got the Tommy John; it happens with young pitchers. Swisher is now 27 and looks like a guy who will fluctuate around an .800 OPS that is OBP-centric. That’s a good player, but nothing great.
Dan Haren for Eveland, Greg Smith, Carlos Gonzalez, Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham – Haren has been great for the D’Backs; he’s somehow kept his HR rate much lower than before, in a much worse park to pitch. Eveland and Smith have both been good, although very lucky, for Oakland so far this year. Carlos has struggled in the majors with the bat but his fielding numbers are great. He’s 22 years old, in the majors, and is highly regarded. Brett Anderson pitched very well at High A this year, and is now at AA as a 20 year old who can strike guys out and get groundballs. Chris Carter has ton of power, walks and strikeouts; these types of players have a bunch of possible outcomes but are definitely intriguing. Cunningham, I admittedly know little about, but he looks like a future big league regular as he’s holding his own in AA at 22. Going forward, this is a slam dunk for the A’s. Currently, it’s a bit in the favor of the D’Backs, but not terribly so.
All-in-all, the offseason trade have probably made the A’s better this year, and MUCH better in the coming years. Open your eyes.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 18, 2008 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"much better in the coming years"
Really, Nostradamus?? Can I have the winning World Series and Super Bowl team this year so I can call my bookie and make some money please?? Keep putting players who have never played a game in the major leagues in the Hall of Fame, because you know that’s how it always works out. Maybe you’re blinded by all the glare coming off of Billy Beane’s championship rings. Oh I forgot. He doesn’t have any!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 18, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has two from his playing days, if you want to get technical about it.
And, since this is the Intarwebs, I obviously do.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Jul 18, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark
Mark, this isn’t your usual fine work. Billy Beane has done better than almost anyone in providing winning on a medium budget.
For a rough comparison, Billy had about the same money as Brian Sabean—AFTER Sabean paid Barry Bonds. You ask how many rings Billy has (which is a foolish question, since using your definition, 29 of the 30 teams are losers each season). I ask this. How many might he have if he had had Barry Bonds in addition to his other players?
Is Billy perfect? He certainly isn’t. But he has a knack for knowing when to get rid of pitchers—which will likely be shown in at least composite form with his trades of Haren, Harden, Blanton and Duscherer. Isn’t it a bit early to judge those trades?
While he didn’t trade his Cy Young winner, you did notice, did you not, that he didn’t re-sign him to a ridiculous contract. Now maybe he got lucky there. He certainly wasn’t going to be able to afford to sign Barry, so let’s not give him credit there.
But you defended the signing when the Giants made it, and now you’re probably wondering why. You made a good argument, by the way. It just wasn’t the better argument, which of course was the argument for NOT signing him.
Hudson has done pretty well since leaving, but Mulder became toast.
In 2006 and 2007 alone, Billy picked up some very good DH’ing for less than $3 million between the two seasons. Prior to drafting Huston Street, Billy has put together some pretty good bullpens with chewing gum and tape.
When you close out your argument with “He doesn’t have any!” your argument is clearly more rhetoric than analysis.
You bit on Barry Zito. Billy didn’t. You are criticizing Billy from a position of weakness, while he is being criticized while sitting on a pretty darn good - not perfect - track record.
Wait a few years before you criticize his recent trades. Of course it is possible that if you wait, you will look foolish in doing so. But it is also possible the trades won’t work out well for the A’s.
I’m usually not comfortable betting against Billy though. Brian, yes. But even Brian seems to be getting his act together.
by sharksrog on Jul 18, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Beane's overrated
But he’s still probably the best GM in the game, either him or Theo Epstein. And the reason why he gets carte blanche is because of his track record, and also because he has a minority share in the team, so he essentially is one of the owners, he can do what he likes.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 18, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
Good points here, Hobbes. Billy isn’t perfect, but he IS darn good.
by sharksrog on Jul 18, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey A's Fans. I've Done it again!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 18, 2008 7:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One last comment from me...
I work with an A’s fan, and we’re always ribbing each other. Today, after a debate about the All-Star Game (AL is better than the NL; AL is better than the NL when Hurdle’s managing), he comes back with a “Well, at least my team’s doing better than yours.”
I challenged him to name half his team’s starting rotation. In front of three witnesses, he couldn’t.
And this guy is a good fan, too. That’s the ultimate comment on Beane.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 19, 2008 1:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ultimate comment on your coworker doesn't follow the A's much?
Eveland, Duchscherer and Smith have been there since the beginning of the season.
I could excuse him for Gallagher, and I guess he only needed to name 2 players since the 5th starter isn’t clear yet (probably Braden though I guess i could see them going with Gonzalez).
by iamawesomer on Jul 19, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
