III

by Grant on Jul 16, 2008 12:30 PM PDT Comment 39 comments

The scenario: Tie game, seventh inning. Our intrepid skipper calls for…a guy with five innings of MLB experience? A guy who had never even pitched above AA until a couple of weeks ago?

The result: Double, out, home run. The loss is given to the reliever in question.

The analysis: This is probably one of my favorite things about Bruce Bochy.

Managing a bullpen has to be one of the ficklest things in a manager’s job description. The urge to react in a knee-jerk fashion has to be strong. Two consecutive outings with three-run homers? It’d be just so easy to justify an ol’-fashioned banishment. Tyler Walker hasn’t been scored upon in 32 of his 41 outings, but in five of the outings in which he has given up a run, he’s given up several. In one particularly horrid stretch, Walker gave up 11 earned runs in four innings. Yet Bochy kept running him out there in the eighth inning.

Good. I like a manager who isn’t worried about a reliever’s ERA. Walker is striking hitters out, and the rate of home runs he’s allowed is disproportionate to his career average. He’s a perfect example of Bochy’s commitment to non-panic. Unfortunately for the Giants’ deadline trade hopes, Walker’s ERA isn’t going to make him worth a whole lot. But he’s a better pitcher than his ERA would indicate.

The youngsters don’t need long to ingratiate themselves to Bochy, either. After Alex Hinshaw’s debut in a four-run deficit, Bochy started bringing him into closer and closer games. Young relievers are innocent until proven guilty. Again, after ten years of Dusty and four subsequent years of the worst bullpen management I hope to ever see in my lifetime (Felipe Alou), this is beyond refreshing.

Almost every young reliever the Giants have could stand to throw more strikes, but that's why it's nice that they're getting innings. So instead of giving letter grades to every reliever in the bullpen, I’ll just give a solid B+ to how I feel about the future of the bullpen. Hinshaw, Romo, and Matos are getting innings, Wilson is going to be given every chance to be the closer for the next half-decade, and Taschner should be either cheap or tradable for a long time. The promotions might have left the organization a little thin, but Geno Espineli and Justin Hedrick are still in the high minors, and hopefully Merkin Valdez comes back soon. Yabu and Walker are taking the bulk of the high-leverage innings, so the burden isn't entirely on the youth.

If you needed a one-sentence explanation to sum up my overall satisfaction with how the bullpen has been handled, here it is: Scott Munter is back in the organization, but the Giants preferred to bring up promising relievers from AA rather than go down the same unproductive path again when a need came up. If I had the time to photoshop the head of Bruce Bochy on a picture of Gold Five, I would.

0 recs | Comment 39 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

first

i definitely would rather watch this bullpen then one with tim worrel and matt herges.. no bout a doubt it

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Jul 16, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Battle of Yavin

EPIC FAIL for Pops

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 16, 2008 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Remember when Jim Brower was our best reliever?

Yirk.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 16, 2008 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yabu

deserves his own A- grade (would be higher except for that weird stretch a few weeks ago when he couldn’t get anyone out; hopefully it was just a random blip). A year ago the guy was pitching balls against his garage door in San Mateo and now this. It’s the feel good story of year.

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Jul 16, 2008 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It came from… behind!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 16, 2008 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lay off my boy Sadler! I still have hope!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 16, 2008 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I too don't get this

Why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt? Are his numbers truly that grim?

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 16, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He displayed a bad case of Taschneritis – consistently walk the first batter faced – and often 1 of the nest 2.

by allfrank on Jul 16, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he’s similar to Wilson, great stuff but spotty control at times. Sadler had a decent K% when he was on the team but a horrific BB%. He also gave up a ton of flyballs which probably didn’t help his cause.

Still, I like his arm and hopefully he’ll get some more shots in the bullpen.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 16, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There’s lack of command, and there’s insanely ineffective wildness. Wilson and Hinshaw have the former, Threets and Sadler have the latter. I still hold out hope for those last two, but I don’t want them working things out in the majors when they don’t have to.

by Grant on Jul 16, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m just saying, as player types, Wilson and Sadler aren’t that far removed. Sadler walked more in the minors - BB/9 of 5.46 to Wilson’s 4.21 - but he also struck out more hitters—K/9 of 10.41 to Wilson’s 9.92.

Sadler does have poor control and I’m not saying he’s ever going to overcome that obstacle, but I think Wilson is a fair reference. I also think it’s unfair to say he’s Threets-bad when it comes to control, Threets’ minor league BB/9 is 6.58 which is actually closer to Hinshaw’s minor league BB/9 of 6.19. So, you might want to move Hinshaw over into the “insanely wild” category.

Bottom line, I like his arm. He’s got some plus-pitches to work with. If his control improves, he’ll have a chance to stick in the majors.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 16, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you’re putting more weight on career performances, and I’m putting more weight on recent performances. Hinshaw almost walked a batter per inning in San Jose, but the rate got better in Norwich, and better yet in Fresno. He’s still wild, but he’s shown improvement. Threets has never shown any sort of sustained improvement at any level.

As to Sadler v. Wilson, I’d respond that a) the extra walk per inning is significant, and b) again, the recent performances are the killer. The last two seasons in AAA, Sadler has had a BB/9 over 7.00, and he wasn’t much better in the majors. Wilson has struggled with his command, but nothing like that for an extended period of time. Wilson’s 2007 in Fresno was close, but he was screwed up from spring training for whatever reason. He finished 2007 strong, and while he’s still wild, he’s not Sadler-wild.

Bottom line: I, too, like Sadler’s arm. He has great stuff, but he isn’t close to ready right now.

by Grant on Jul 16, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and at his age, he’s running out of time to be productive for the Giants

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 16, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like that Sadler v. Wilson sounds like a famous court case ;)

I agree with all your points. I’d love to see if I could find numbers for guys like Wilson, Salder, Threets, etc. who’ve had great K numbers in the minors but bad BB numbers and made the transition to the majors by cutting their walks and being successful relievers.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 17, 2008 5:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but minor league stats are like the third best stats to use at best

by iamawesomer on Jul 17, 2008 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

AT BEST!

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Jul 17, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m worried about Hinshaw’s walk rate. Not super worried, but mildly worried.

by Dan from NM on Jul 18, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You should be a little, it’s not very good. But he’s only thrown 21 innings. I’m hoping we can chalk it up to small sample size.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 18, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I think of the bullpen

I touch myself

by toofruss on Jul 16, 2008 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The title is just a subtle Sebadoh reference, isn’t it?

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 16, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, it is....

by Grant on Jul 16, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You kids and your indie rock!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jul 16, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the no-panic, keep plugging them in mentality, but I HATE the “he’s obviously going to give up five runs, so I’ll start warmind a guy up once he’s already given up four of them” mentality.

He could be just a LITTLE less laid back about the bullpen.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 16, 2008 1:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Or his newfound “I’ve got a lefty warmed up and the batter at the plate is a lot better against RHP than LHP and the pitcher on the mound hasn’t exactly been dominating, but I’m just going to leave him in anyway.”

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 16, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a whole, though, I do like his bullpen management.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 16, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

Overall, his bullpen management has been pretty good.

But do think he fails to recognize when a guy doesn’t have it, and should come out.

Walker is a perfect example: Most of the time he’s great. Occasionally he isn’t – but when he isn’t it’s usually obvious from the first batter. These are times when I think Bochy should yank him.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 16, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

These are times when I think Bochy should yank him.

Now there’s a visual I didn’t need.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 16, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

“Walker is a perfect example: Most of the time he’s great. Occasionally he isn’t – but when he isn’t it’s usually obvious from the first batter.”

Completely agree. When Walker’s bad, he’s awful, and he’s not shy about showing it. Some guys (Wilson, for example) have a tendency to get themselves into trouble, then work out of it. As Grant pointed out, Walker has a tendency to either dominate or get shelled—and it’s usually pretty obvious from the start. I don’t mind Bochy using him so much, but I wish he’d employ a quicker hook when it’s clear he doesn’t have his A game that day.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 16, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I’m really not a fan of his strategy, “I’ll leave the starter in for this inning, but the first baserunner allowed, I’m pulling him right out!” If the leash in that inning is THAT short… Just take him out already!

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jul 16, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bullpen ERA

Not a true indicator of the talent and potential of our bullpen.

Only 878 games until the end of Zito's contract

by thehavenot on Jul 16, 2008 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

At the beginning of the year...

I thought Bochy was doing a horrible job with the bullpen. Yabu, supposedly the long man, was pitching all the time. Hennessey, supposedly an important setup guy, was rotting away. Walker was the 8th inning? Put down the crack pipe and walk away.

Having watched Bochy for two years, I now see his April is really an extended spring training to sort out bullpen roles. That’s bad in a year when there’s a pennant to be had; in this kind of year, it’s worked out fairly well.

Strangely, most of the up-and-down of pitchers has made sense. Guys have pitched themselves into (and out of) SF, in most cases with plenty of rope to hang themselves or to climb back onto the roster.

It’s very strange compared to the revolving door with all the position players, and the various kids sitting for extended periods or A ball players handed starting jobs only to be sent to AAA after a month or so. Maybe Righetti and Gardner have some pull (and good judgment) that’s not matched by the various bench coaches.

Just a thought.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

by natteringnabob on Jul 16, 2008 5:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Brower, I manage to forget bad thoughts like that.
this whole carousel will continue to spin a while. Henry Sosa could be ML ready next year, will he start or relieve?
Hedrick and Espinelli, if they improve, are candidates. Pereira could be an interesting lefty reliever. Matos and Romo will not stick on this roster all year. IMO, they are getting a look to figure what they need to work on to succeed up here. Could be lots of Spring 09 trade chips.

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Jul 16, 2008 5:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

heartening stuff

I’ve been feeling some serious animosity towards the bullpen, so I appreciated this post. I took a look at the splits on OPS against, and it turns out that most of the guys have a use. Walker and Yabu are the toughest against RHP, Tasch and Wilson against LHP. Hinshaw’s been quite touch against both, but the sample is really small. With Matos and Romo it’s obviously too soon to know, but I’d be surprised if Romo lasted too long with the big club (his numbers seem fairly ordinary in the minors). If I was looking at the right year on Minor league splits, it appears as though Threets and Sadler have got some reverse splits going. Billy looks much tougher against lefties, which may actually be to his disadvantage. Lefties seem to get to Threets pretty good – I didn’t look closely enough, but I expect he walks a ton of them. I only looked at guys who’ve been in the bigs; you guys who know the minors may be able to add to who else we might see in the second half.

by BigO on Jul 16, 2008 5:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

(Romo’s) numbers seem fairly ordinary in the minors

You might have been looking at the numbers of someone else. Romo had a 1.36 ERA, 106 Ks, and 15 BB in 66 innings last year. That’s absolutely silly, and it’s kind of a crime he wasn’t promoted from the Cal League sooner, but you can’t fault the guy for dominating where he was stuck.

He was dominating AA earlier this year, but two bad outings raised his ERA to 4.00.

by Grant on Jul 17, 2008 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

...two bad outings raised his ERA…

If I’m not wrong these bad outings came immediately before or after he injured the knee (?). When healthy, though, he was dominant.

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 18, 2008 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re not wrong.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 18, 2008 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

...two bad outings raised his ERA…

If I’m not wrong these bad outings came immediately before or after he injured the knee (?). When healthy, though, he was dominant.

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 18, 2008 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re so wrong.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 18, 2008 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tyler Walker sucks

He sucked before we released him and he sucks now. His fastball is straight and hittable, he leaves it up too much and he leaves his off-speed stuff up too much because he’s out of shape and can’t consistently get the ball down. Lefties murder him. Our bullpen as a whole has sucked since 2003.

by mark30perq3 on Jul 18, 2008 12:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs