Giants All-Star Pitching (GASP) Updated
A few All-Star games ago, SF Chronicle baseball writer John Shea wrote the following:
"No Giants pitcher has had success in an All-Star Game since Carl Hubbell."
Given the Giants' more recent All-Star pitching history, it's understandable that Shea would see things in an entirely negative light. But this remark was so howlingly off the mark that I feel an almost annual compulsion to deride it and refute it. The fact is, until Atlee Hammaker arrived on the All-Star scene in 1983, the Giants had a rather remarkable record of success in All-Star Game pitching.
Since moving to SF in 1958, Giants pitchers have compiled a 6-3 record, with an ERA of 4.18 (26 ER in 56 IP). However, a closer look at the record book reveals three distinct eras of SF Giants' All-Star Pitching performances: The first, I call the "Marichal Era" from 1958-71. Second is the transitional "Vida Era" from 1972-82. And then there's that period of time I like to call the "Atlee Era", extending from 1983 to present.
During the "Marichal Era", from 1958-71, Giants' pitchers went 5-0, and allowed just 4 ER in 35.1 IP, for a 1.02 ERA. Marichal, for his part, was remarkable--allowing just one earned run in his eight All-Star appearances, covering 18 innings of work.
One other thing--Stu Miller's '61 outing at the Candlestick Park All-Star game is often cited as another example of "The Curse". But check out Miller's line from that game: 1.2 IP, 0 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 4 K. And he was the winning pitcher. Stu went on to toss three more scoreless innings in the *second* All-Star Game that year, at Fenway Park (that game ended in a 1-1 tie). Miller's very impressive '61 All-Star totals: 4.2 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 9 K. In the years prior to the "Atlee Era", Giants' pitchers were 6-0, with a 1.43 ERA (7 ER in 44 IP).
Little did Atlee Hammaker know when he took the mound in Comiskey Park on that fateful night in 1983, that he was about to usher in a stretch where Giants pitchers would go 0-3, with an ERA of 20.86. The Atlee Era also was marked by the first instance of an SF Giant being the losing pitcher in an All-Star game (Jeff Brantley,'90).
Out of their first ten "Atlee Era" appearances, Giants pitchers emerged unscored upon in just two of them (Mike Krukow in '86 and Rod Beck in '94). A sign that the Atlee Era may be ending: With Brian Wilson's performance in last night's All-Star game following Jason Schmidt's two scoreless innings in 2003, the Giants now have consecutive scoreless All-Star pitching appearances for the first time since 1982 (just prior to the Atlee Era).
My conclusion is that Giants' pitchers are not cursed. They are merely suffering through the "Atlee Era"--a bad stretch which hopefully will soon come to a conclusion, and give way to another good era.
Here are the numbers:
'58: Antonelli (DNP)
'59 (1): Antonelli 0.1 IP, 0 ER (WP)
'59 (2): Sam Jones 2 IP, 0 ER
'60 (1): McCormick 2.1 IP, 0 ER
'60 (2): McCormick (DNP)
'61 (1): McCormick 3 IP, 1 ER / Miller 1.2, 0 ER (WP)
'61 (2): Miller 3 IP, 0 ER
'62 (1): Marichal 2 IP, 0 ER (WP)
'62 (2): Marichal 2 IP, 1 ER
'63: Marichal (DNP)
'64: Marichal 1 IP, 0 ER (WP)
'65: Marichal 3 IP, 0 ER
'66: Marichal 3 IP, 0 ER / Perry 2 IP, 0 ER (WP)
'67: Marichal 3 IP, 0 ER
'68: Marichal 2 IP, 0 ER
'69: Marichal (DNP)
'70: Perry 2 IP, 2 ER
'71: Marichal 2 IP, 0 ER
'76: Montefusco 2 IP, 0 ER
'77: Lavelle 2 IP, 0 ER
'78: Blue 3 IP, 3 ER
'80: Whitson (DNP)
'81: Blue 1 IP, 0 ER (WP)
'82: Minton 0.2 IP, 0 ER
'83: Atlee 0.2 IP, 7 ER / Lavelle (DNP)
'85: Garrelts (DNP)
'86: Krukow 1 IP, 0 ER
'88: Reuschel (DNP)
'89: Reuschel 1 IP, 2 ER
'90: Brantley 0.1 IP, 2 ER (LP)
'93: Burkett 0.2 IP, 3 ER (LP) / Beck 1 IP, 1 ER
'94: Beck 1.2 IP, 0 ER
'97: Estes 1 IP, 2 ER (LP) / Beck (DNP)
'98: Nen 1 IP, 1 ER
'99: Nen (DNP)
'02: Nen 1 IP, 1 ER
'03: Schmidt 2 IP, 0 ER
'04: Schmidt (DNP)
'06: Schmidt (DNP)
'08: Wilson 0.2 IP, 0 ER
"Marichal Era" (1958-71): 5-0, 35.1 IP, 4 ER, 1.02 ERA
"Vida Era" (1972-82): 1-0, 8.2 IP, 3 ER, 3.12 ERA
"Pre-Atlee Era" (1958-82): 6-0, 44 IP, 7 ER, 1.43 ERA
"Atlee Era" (1983-present): 0-3, 12 IP, 19 ER, 14.25 ERA
GASP Totals: 6-3, 56 IP, 26 ER, 4.18 ERA
Juan Marichal - All-Star totals: 18 IP, 7 H, 1 ER, 5 BB, 9 SO, 2-0 W-L 0.50 ERA
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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23 comments
Comments
That’s kind of embarrassing that he said that, looking at Marichal’s numbers there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 16, 2008 10:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Giants Haters Unite
a.k.a. All Sports Media Outlets Not In the Bay Area
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 16, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, John Shea works for the SF Chronicle.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 16, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just pulled a John Shea, I know. Further explanation below.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 16, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Shea has joined them by proof of not providing evidence. Must have been a deadline and wrote that out of his ass. Because, you know, it’s not like they have a statue of Marichal in front of the ballpark or anything, right?
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 16, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marichal statue
it’s not like they have a statue of Marichal in front of the ballpark or anything
Well, it’s technically off to one side. There’s a statue of Willie Mays in front. But your point is well taken.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Jul 16, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wait to get in line next to the Marichal statue sometimes. Technically at that moment me and the statue are in front of the park.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 16, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The seal statue feels unappreciated.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 16, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3rd best statue at best.
AT BEST
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Jul 16, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lack of fact checking seems like a much too common occurance in typical sports media
Which makes the holier-than-thou attitude towards electronic media and the blogosphere even more ridiculous
Only 878 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Jul 16, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3RD HOLIEST ESTABLISHMENT AT BEST
AT BEST!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Jul 16, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just in the sports media
Biases, shoddy reporting and fact checking has run rampant through the media. The blogs are no better but they certainly aren’t any worse. And at the very least one can respond to the blog unlike one can in the mainstream media. Blogs expect and invite debate and criticism, the mainstream media detests criticism and can be quite petty.
by slcgiant on Jul 16, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the blog here did the fact-checking for the MSM
blogs watch the watchers…
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 16, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but...
True in this case but there are plenty of instances where blogs have essentially made up stories or created them where the MSM have proven the story to be a sham. I think the checks and balances are generally positive but the MSM and blogs have both created this never ending news cycle beast that has to be constantly fed which creates the many ridiculous stories like the Diamondbacks have contemplated signing Bonds and the Yankees haven’t ruled out signing Bonds.
These are made up stories. If a reporter calls an organziation after a player goes down and says would you ever consider signing Bonds and the organization says we will look at all options and the reporter runs a story saying Organization X considers signing Bonds, that doesn’t really strike me as legitimate reporting but rather an attempt to write a sensational story for the sake of having to write a story every day.
by slcgiant on Jul 16, 2008 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True in this case but there are plenty of instances where blogs have essentially made up stories or created them where the MSM have proven the story to be a sham.
I was planning on breaking a fake Cain-for-Braun story tomorrow, but now you have me all self-conscious.
by Grant on Jul 16, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Cain for Sabathia, Grant
get it straight
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Jul 16, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
Screw Sabathia, I want Braun. Great tip Grant – I always knew you had excellent inside sources.
by slcgiant on Jul 16, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The later instances of Beck and Schmidt throwing shutout innings also makes Shea look bad. Especially since the new format of EVERYONE PLAYS means the rosters are pretty different every year and not a lot of guys get into a game regularly like Marichal once did.
Dude, Shea, why? If you were tired and pushing this one for deadline I get it. But they’re willing to forgive a typo like “are” for “and” than a ridiculously glaringly incorrect claim like this.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 16, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did write to him...
And although he never replied to my email to him, he did correct himself in this article from last year.
That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!
by tobias on Jul 16, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 ER?
I knew it was bad. I was watching it. But holy crap. 7?!? Amazing.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 16, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tobias presents to us the facts, and rather than read the biases and fictions of the ScoresReport, I prefer to wrap myself up in the warm, protective Juan Marichal cocoon.
by Moggeee on Jul 16, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So hey, what’s the deal with this GASP stat you’re talking about?
On second thought, maybe this isn’t the right thread…
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 16, 2008 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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