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Around SBN: 21 Days Later, Wolves win. Bar-right-arrows

Part II

Grant_tiny by Grant on

Back in the day, I mused that an average offense might be enough for the Giants to be successful. It was a theory akin to "discovery of cold fusion could improve the economy"; it’s a perfect blueprint if you ignore that it’s impossible.

Five of the eight players with the most at-bats on the roster this season, however, have an OPS+ that is at or better than the league average. Two of the eight are above 90+. The offense isn’t as bad as expected, and yet the team is still far below .500. Does that mean the pitching hasn’t been as good as advertised?

Not really. Just because a handful of hitters are right around the league average, it doesn’t mean they’ll make up for the pile of wretched hitters who haven’t had as many at-bats. The Vizcock combo has been the equivalent to an extra pitcher in the lineup, and the other reserves (with the exception of 37 at-bats from Travis Denker and three from Ivan Ochoa) have been WILL YOU SHUT UP THAT DAMNED JACKHAMMER UP? JUST SHUT IT THE HELL UP! JACKHAMMER OUTSIDE OF MY OFFICE SOME OTHER DAY. DON’T YOU KNOW THAT I’M WRITING AN EXTREMELY POPULAR GIANTS BLOG AND MY FANS COUNT ON MY STELLAR WIT AND ANALYSIS AS IF IT WERE RHETORICAL INSULIN? HAVE SOME RESPECT! quite awful. This is just an ineffective offense when all of the parts are added together, and that’s the main reason why they have one of the worst records in the league

So keeping that in mind, it’s time to grade the pitchers. Note again that the grades have nothing to do with how the pitchers are doing compared to the rest of the league. They’re grades given relative to my own preseason expectations.

Starters                

Tim Lincecum – A

Matt Cain – B-

Jonathan Sanchez – A+

Barry Zito – D

Kevin Correia – D-

Lincecum was supposed to be good, but I wasn’t expecting him to be one of the best pitchers in the game quite yet. Cain has been inconsistent, but I half-expected as much. The difference between a ‘B-‘ and a ‘C’ is that his strikeout rate moved from above-average to one of the best in the league in the second half of last season, and I didn’t think he’d keep those gains.

I would have pegged Sanchez for an ERA in the high-4s or low-5s, with enough good starts to give hope for the future. Instead, he’s been better than Cain, and his starts are almost as fun to watch as Lincecum’s. I’m glad he wasn’t traded for Edwin Encarnacion, even though I would have jumped on that trade in December.

All I wanted from Zito was an ERA around 4.50. I thought his second-half performance from last season portended good things. I was wrong. The bar was a foot off the floor, but Zito does a mean limbo, apparently.

Correia has been the most disappointing starter, even after taking Zito into account. Since coming back from injury, Correia has sniffed a decent start just once. Zito was supposed to be the ace once upon a time, and Correia is just a fifth starter, but that’s a pre-4/3 mindset. The post-4/3 mindset might be unfair, but we expect more from our young pitchers than we do our erstwhile ace.

As always, constructive criticism is welcome in theory and ignored in practice, so have at it. This was longer than I expected, TWSS, so I'll do a relief post another time, if at all.

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The jackhammer must be messing with your mind

Because relative to expectations Zito sucks 109 to the 75th power times more than Correia.

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 15, 2008 12:45 PM PDT   0 recs

I'd say Zito gets an F+

The plus for embarrassing the Dodgers in Bizarro Ocsicnarf Nas

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 15, 2008 12:49 PM PDT   0 recs

Starters

Tim Lincecum – A

Matt Cain – B-

Jonathan Sanchez – A+

Barry Zito – D

Kevin Correia – D-

So you’re saying Cain’s only our third best starter?:)

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2008 12:51 PM PDT   0 recs

AT BEST!

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 15, 2008 12:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

THIRD STARTER AT BEST!

I think I’d give Cain a B or B+. The only number of his that’s really disappointing at this point is his ERA (and, at 4.06/105 ERA+, even it’s not that disappointed). His peripherals look really good, his HR rate is getting more in line with the rest of his career (not counting last year), his FIP and xFIP are the best of his career so far. He’s doing a good job eating innings for the most part (7th in the NL in innings pitched… by the way, how the hell has Hamels pitched 142.7 innings already this year holy shit) He’s been inconsistent, yeah, but in general, I’m really encouraged by how he’s pitched this year. I don’t even really agree that Jonathan’s outpitching him (at least not by a significant amount.)

I mean, I’m his mom so I have to argue on his behalf, but a B- feels a bit low to me.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 12:51 PM PDT   0 recs

*disappointing

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 12:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

grade grubber

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m going to leave a nasty message on Grant’s answering machine

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

HOW”S HE GOING TO GE TINTO HARVARD NOW?!

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A quick ERA-based shorthand of what would constitute “C” grades for the pitchers:

Lincecum: 3.50 ERA, with great starts punctuated by the occasional awful start.
Cain: 4.00 ERA, with K/9 numbers closer to his rookie year.
Sanchez: 4.50 ERA, with encouraging starts mixed in with control struggles.
Zito: 4.50 ERA, with K/9 and K/BB moving from unspeakably awful to just plain bad.
Correia: 4.30 ERA, with similar K/9 and K/BB to his starting run last year.

I was optimistic with my preseason projections, but these were reasonable projections. Therefore, living up to these POOMA numbers would constitute a “C.”

by Grant on Jul 15, 2008 1:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Grant, you forgot one

Merkin Valdez: A+

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Jul 15, 2008 12:59 PM PDT   0 recs

Merkin Valdez: AMA+

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cue wil in

3…
2…
1…

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Valdez is a starter

quit jerking him around

by wilriv21 on Jul 15, 2008 2:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

never trust bochy,

He’s always jerkin his Merkin!

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 15, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm

I predicted a breakout season for Tim Lincecum, so he really hasn’t surprised me all that much. When his ERA was below 2.00, yes. But not now, particularly now that he has his curve ball back.

Jonathan Sanchez has indeed been a pleasant surprise. I had thought since he was brought up that he had the potential, but whether it was the Giants’ foolish juggling of him or just part of the normal maturation process, he hadn’t put it together before this season—at least not since his first few weeks when he was recalled as a reliever.

I’m really glad that while others were calling over the winter for him to be traded, I stood fast and said I would trade him only for a bat with a similar high ceiling to his.

Regarding Matt Cain, no one seems to realize he has actually pitched WELL since the worst game (nine earned runs) of his career on April 18th. Since that ill-fated start, Matt has gone 3.55 with a 1.21 WHIP and a 2.68 K/BB ratio, all better than his career averages.

Last season Matt had the best month of his career in April, then pitched rather poorly in May through July, before righting himself nicely in August and September. This year he has ALREADY been pitching well for nearly three months.

Barry Zito has done far worse than I expected. I expected him to continue tailing off after the Giants signed him, but I actually thought he might improve his ERA by as much as half a run this season. I was light on the magnitude and completely wrong regarding direction.

Kevin Correia has indeed been a disappointment. Somehow he has never seemed to re-find his groove after his oblique injury. The good news is that the oblique was on the opposite side from his throwing arm, so a full recovery would seem more likely.

Four of the five Giants starters appear to be headed in the right direction at the All-Star break, although it is hard to see the supposed improvement in Barry Zito. I think Correia will bounce back, but he hasn’t yet shown signs of doing so.

by sharksrog on Jul 15, 2008 1:07 PM PDT   0 recs

FYI lots of people ‘round here know that Cain has been pitching well.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jul 15, 2008 1:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hey, there's nothing wrong with being a third starter at best

AT BEST

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Matt Cain SUCKS

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 15, 2008 1:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Referring to Vizcock as like having another pitcher in the lineup is offensive to pitchers everywhere.

Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!

by Goofus on Jul 15, 2008 1:08 PM PDT   0 recs

Especially Matt Cain, who’s got 200 points of OPS on them this year.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 1:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Break Star-All

Haven’t the Giants had the best record in the NL West over the past 45 days, or something along those lines. And they are predicted to have the best record in the NL West from here on out.
Too bad you all got off to such a wretched start.
vr, Xeifrank

by Xeifrank on Jul 15, 2008 1:09 PM PDT   0 recs

wait...what.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 1:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Too bad you're a lowlife dipshit

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 15, 2008 1:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think this was true

Until we went to New York.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 1:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you confuse me.

your number simulation shindig is seriously flawed in its scope and predicative abilities.

but somehow, I respect you for your work and tenacity. It surprises me.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 15, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I rarely disagree with you Grant (O.K. not that rarely), but Jonathan Sanchez hasn’t been better than Cain. That’s right:

Cain: K/9 – 8.62, BB/9 – 3.78, K/BB – 2.28, WHIP – 1.31, FIP – 3.66, PRAA – 7.

Sanchez: K/9 – 9.32, BB/9 – 4.30, K/BB – 2.17, WHIP – 1.36, FIP – 3.62, PRAA – 8.

Sanchez has gotten more SO’s, but Cain’s given fewer BB’s so his K/BB is still better. They’ve been very, very similar in everything else. Their VORPs are identical (20.8, tied for 20th in the NL). We expected more from Cain than we did from Sanchez, so I understand why you gave Sanchez a higher grade, but I think you’re a bit too harsh on Cain. Like jponry said, his FIP, K/9 and K/BB are a career best for him. I’d give Cain a solid B, or maybe even a B+.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2008 1:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Correia has been frustrating

But I think it is a little unfair to grade him so harshly. I think our bar for a 4th/5th starter might be a little too high.

Barry Zito Ranks #90 in the ML by FIP (pitchers with more than 90 innings), which makes him a borderline #3/#4 starter by my simple math.

Correia would fall in about # 98, which again makes him a pretty solid #4.

So, basically, by FIP, compared to ML average, our pitchers look like this :

Lincecum: #1
Cain: #1
Sanchez: #1
Zito: #3
Correia: #4

Our top 3 starters are each BETTER than the #1 starter on at least 8 teams. Our #5 starter is BETTER than the #4 starter on about 20 teams.

AT BEST!

Our perspective on pitching has been kinda skewed as of late. We think Zito and Correia have been bad, but there are plenty of teams trotting out guys like Mark Hendrickson and Paul Byrd in the bottom of their rotation.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 1:26 PM PDT   0 recs

Does having three #1s mean we can send them all out there to start simultaneously? I’ll bet no one would hit them if they all pitched at the same time.

Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!

by Goofus on Jul 15, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think there was a baseball game for the nintendo

That had a pitch like this. Also had some sort of feather floating ball.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 1:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball Simulator 1.000!

Great game that was ruined by slow-ass simulations for the other teams in your league. You’d play a game in a season, and then you’d had to wait for a freaking hour to get to your next game.

Still, if Baseball Stars = The Beatles, Baseball Simulator = The Kinks. There’s no shame in that at all.

by Grant on Jul 15, 2008 1:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball Stars = Tim Lincecum, Baseball Simulator = Matt Cain.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2008 1:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

3RD BEST BASEBALL GAME

AT BEST!

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 15, 2008 1:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Jul 15, 2008 1:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ooooh, sorry

try again next time

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 15, 2008 2:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball Stars was awesome. I liked making the opposing OF’ers run into the wall after a homerun and they’d keep running in place, nose to the padding. Kinda like Aaron Rowand.

Baseball Simulator was all about playing in outer space on brown dirt!

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Jul 15, 2008 2:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn, I never had Nintendo as a kid. I had to make due with Earl Weaver baseball for the PC

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Jul 15, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You couldn’t pay me to stand in the batters box with all three of them throwing at once. No thank you, I don’t feel like being broken.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 2:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Barry Zito Ranks #90 in the ML by FIP (pitchers with more than 90 innings), which makes him a borderline #3/#4 starter by my simple math.

That’s 90 out of 104. It means that 87% of pitchers with more than 90 innings pitched have been better than Zito. I don’t know what that makes him, but #3 doesn’t sound right.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And that also means that Correia is the definition of a terrible #5.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 15, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This exercise could be worked out using Quintiles.

I’ve already got Excel open, maybe I’ll give it a try.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 2:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was going to say

there’s no way a #3 starter has a 1.79 WHIP and be construed as acceptable.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 15, 2008 3:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A couple questions

How many starters have enough innings to qualify and where are you getting your stats?

I’m not criticizing, just curious.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 15, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess Cookyman answered one of my questions.

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jul 15, 2008 1:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To both you and groug:

There are 30 teams in the MLB. If we assume that all teams are using a 5 man rotation, that means there are 150 starting pitchers in the Major leagues.

So, if Barry Zito is ranked # 90 by FIP, that means he is in the top 3/5ths of ML starting pitchers.

Like wise, if Correia is #98, he is in the top 4/5ths.

Now, as Cookyman pointed out, there are only 104 guys with 90 or more innings pitched. If I shift it to 80 IP then I get 121 guys, closer to 150, so that may not have been a good cutoff point in retrospect.

However, you are also going to ahve to contend with guys (like Correia) who are either sharing time in the 4/5 spot or have been injured and as a result have much less than 80 IP.

So it is probably not a super accurate method at the bottom end, but pretty good at the top (Lincecum, Sanchez, and Cain are all in the top 30).

If I drop it to 60 IP, I get 144 pitchers – which is pretty damn close. It also looks like everyone I have is still technically a starter because the lowest # of Games started is 4, for Jeff Bennet.

Unfortuantely, I think small sample size is going to fuck this up for some of these guys who only have 5-6 starts, but I’ll see what shakes out.

Timmy: #3 in FIP ( #1 starter for sure)
Sanchez: #29 (#1 starter again, but closer to #2)
Cain: #32 (#2 starter, but I think some of the guys ahead of him are small sample size flukes)
Zito: #125 (#5 starter, but small sample size guys are killing this now)
Correia: (#5 again, but I think by this point he is getting screwed by guys with 5-6 spot starts and flukey performances)

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 2:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This looks right.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2008 2:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To get more accurate, you’d have to total up starts rather than starters. That is, if 60 percent of major-league starts result in an FIP lower than Zito’s, then he’s a #4; if 80 percent, he’s a #5.

Also, the idea that the top 30 pitchers in baseball are all #1s, the next 30 are #2s, etc., is a pretty generous grading system. If you have the 15th best, the 45th best, etc, you’re going to have an exactly average #1, #2, etc, but you’re still going to finish at .500. So is that 15th best guy really an ace?

Finally, Zito has been lucky (or successful, if that’s the way you want to look at it) with home runs this year. xFIP has him as the very worst regular starter in baseball.

by Evan on Jul 15, 2008 2:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not that used to xFIP. Is it pretty stable? I’m under the impression that LD% plays a pretty big role in it, and that’s not terribly stable from one season to the next.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 3:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s FIP, only with HR rate normalized.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 3:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, there are so many assumptions and normalizations to it that it’s kind of a junk stat, but worth looking at when you’re confronted by something counterintuitive like the suggestion that Barry Zito might not be one of the absolute worst pitchers in the game.

by Evan on Jul 15, 2008 3:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not a huge fan of xFIP, it always seems to be too high and it seems to penalize flyball pitchers, but it’s still useful to look at it (just not to use as the only indicator of performance.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 3:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ah

That makes sense. That’s always bothered me about FIP, because HR rate seems to be at least part do to with park effects.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 3:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

YOU STATS PEOPLE ARE KILLING BASEBALL

(jk)

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jul 15, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

nerds

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 3:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

mother’s basemant etc.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 3:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My underlying thought was

If you are in the top 30 in baseball, there is a pitcher who is another team’s #1 starter who you are better than. That team would be upgraded by having you as their #1 instead of the guy they have. This is just very simple math, can’t argue that really. There are 30 teams, so there have to be 30 #1 starters.

So even if you are a #2 or #3 on your own team, you have the quality be a #1 somewhere else.

I also don’t think the % of starts w/ lower FIP is necessarily a better way either, because it doesn’t take into account spot starts, etc.

IE – if you can string together 3-4 bullpen and call up starts with a lower FIP than 3-4 of Zito’s starts – is that better for the team?

I think it is a hard thing to analyze on the bottom end. I’ve got all of the first half stats piled up in excel now so I might try a more aggressive analysis later. I’ve started out by trying to sort pitchers by team and identify who is actually a true starter.

Once i’ve done that, I will go from the bottom up.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 4:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Additionally

I think you really have to limit this to true starters. IE, pitchers who you can reasonably expect to give you a full season.

Sure, you may be able to get better-than-Zito production out of a #5 starter by committee, but I guess I don’t think that is really comparable.

So I think games started would be the best way to chop it off.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 5:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it ’s more like this:
Lincecum: #1
Cain: #2
Sanchez: #2
Zito: #5
Correia: #5

I sorted all ERA qualified pitchers by FIP, then broke them up into 20% chunks. Lincecum fell in the top 20%, Sanchez and Cain were in the second 20% and Barry Zito was below the cutoff for the bottom 20%. (Braden Looper is the best of the bottom 20%, if you are curious). Correia obviously doesn’t have enough innings to qualify, but if he did he would fall into the bottom 20% of starters.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 2:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This is the same as I got

Problem is, does some guy who has 4-5 starts out of the bullpen with a FIP < Zito’s really count as a better starter than him?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 2:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ex:

Chris Sampson: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2651&position=P

He’s a reliever who has made 11 starts for the Astros. He has pitched really well overall (3.65 FIP) but he is not really a starter. There are numerous guys like this screwing up the rankings IF you drop the IP too far.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 2:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My IP requirement was pretty high.

Here’s a list of the guys immediately in front of Zito: Braden Looper, Tim Wakefield, Kyle Kendrick, Johnny Cueto, Brian Burres, Jeff Suppan. Burres is the only guy with much Relief work in that lot, and he’s started 17 games.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 2:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What was your IP limit, and what was your total pitching pool?

I’m not sure there is a great way to list these guys at the bottom frankly. As the year goes on and there becomes more of a IP spread between starters and relievers it might be easier.

The underlying point however is that there are still plenty of teams trotting out guys as their #5 starter who are worse than both Barry Zito and Kevin Correia.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 2:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I I only analyzed guys that were qualified for the ERA title. That’s at least one IP per game played. Sampson and his ilk are kept out of it.

Certainly there is the factor that if a pitcher is both too awful and not famous enough he won’t make it to the IP requirement. My quintiles might be biased upward. But there do seem to be a lot of bad pitchers famous enough to keep their jobs for half a season.
(What the Hell happened to Brett Myers?)

Corriea’s FIP is 5.14. That’s pretty darn bad. That’s worse than Mark Hendrickson. Hell that’s Andres Biedrins’ FT% bad.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jul 15, 2008 2:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Its not the 4-5 guys immediately in front of Zito that bother me

It is the 20-30 guys between him and #1 that are actually relievers that have made a few spot starts and benefited from a little good luck in their time.

I would like a way to try to limit this to “true” starters, but I’m not sure how.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jul 15, 2008 2:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

One thing about the pitching

D.

The Giants D is pretty damn poor. The Giants D / pitching has allowed a BABIP of 311, 25th in MLB. The A’s are 1st in MLB, BABIP allowed of 276. The Pirates last, BABIP allowed of 320.

By Revised Zone Rating, the Giants D is 29 plays below average. Only the Pirates are worse in the NL, 34 plays below average. The Rangers are the worst in MLB, 35 plays below average. The OF is decent, solidly above average, one of the better OFs in MLB actually.. The infield has been very poor, both at converting balls in zone, and getting to balls out of zone.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jul 15, 2008 1:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Just more proof that Matt Cain (tons of flyballs) is no good.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs