Do we WANT Timmy and/or Brian to pitch in the ASG?
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 14, 2008 11:14 AM PDT
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My first fanpost on this new format, so forgive me if I screw something up.
Simple question - do we want The Enchanter and The Non-Beach Boy to show their wares in the All-Star Game, or would we rather have them rest up and avoid the alleged Giants All-Star Pitcher Curse that affected the likes of Atlee Hammaker, Jeff Brantley, John Burkett, and Shawn Estes (but didn't seem to affect Vida Blue or Mike Krukow)?
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After 114 pitches, I’d prefer Tim rest. I doubt he’ll get hurt, but the risk isn’t worth it. I know they say he’d be throwing today anyway, but that’s not a game situation where he’s likely to be amped up.
Wilson, absolutely. I’m trying to figure out which AL’er I’d like to see on his butt avoiding a 100 mph FB.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
Jeter, obviously.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
not a-shaft?
Rafael Rodriguez: Vlad Guerrero on layaway?
by BrianBokake on Jul 14, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Timmy pitch an inning. ONE INNING. If throwing 10-15 pitches in an All-Star game (on what is his normal throwing day between starts anyway) is going to do long-term damage to the kid, then we should forget about ever hoping to see him in a pennant race a few years down the line. Since he’s not starting, there’s no expectation he “needs” to go at least a couple innings.
Of course, if Clint Hurdle misuses him for shits and giggles, I’ll organize the torches-and-pitchforks caravan to Denver.
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
I don’t see how being prudent now with your 24-year-old franchise player who just threw 114 pitches (and eight innings, which means extra lots of warm-up throws) by keeping out of a meaningless exhibition game precludes us from ever hoping to see him in a pennant race a few years down the line.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
I just think 10-15 pitches, even adrenaline-filled ones during a big game on national TV, is unlikely to do long-term damage to his arm (as opposed to, say, regularly running him out for 110+ pitches a start and having him throw 220 innings this year). If it likely to do damage, then he’s probably pretty fragile (which we all seem to agree/hope he isn’t).
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
I believe ALL 24 year-old arms should be thought of as “fragile” and should be treated as such. There’s just too much evidence that too many pitches (and especially) innings is likely to lead to arm damage in guys that reach the bigs early. I believe the NPA calls it the Dwight Gooden Prinicple.
I didn’t understand Cain’s obsession with getting to 200 innings last season, not did I approve.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
That principle is exactly why I’m less concerned about one inning in mid-July (followed by four days rest, mind you) than I am about how the Giants will handle Lincecum’s total IP for the season as we approach September. Will they shut him down at 200 innings or so (which I think they should), or will they let him go to 215-225 innings if it means the difference between “20 wins and a Cy Young Award or not”?
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
if he has a legit shot at a cy young, you have to give him innings or else he may hate the franchise and want out. if his ERA balloons to like 3.3 and moves all the way down to 3rd in K’s, shut him down. otherwise hes gotta pitch, this could be a special year
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
just curious
why ESPECIALLY innings? IMO, throwing 110 pitches in 5 innings, with ~60-70 of them being high stress out of the stretch is WAY worse than throwing 110 in 8 innings, with only about 30-35 being high stress.
From what I remember, NPA’s research showed more of a correalation between innings and injuries. Part of it might have to do with additional warm-up pitches and I think most of it has to do with getting heated up, cooling down, heatling up, cooling down for every inning pitched.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
I believe it’s ESPECIALLY innings because that’s what’s been counted and compiled. I don’t there has been any satisfactory study done regarding pitch counts.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 14, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Meant to add…
To hear Tom Hourse talk, the arm-stress in the stretch should be no different than out of the windup. Most pitchers feel more comfortable out of the windup because they learn in the windup and practice it more, but the movement that’s added in the windup simply gets the pitcher to leg-lft in a different way but does not create any energy that transalte into velocity.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
I say no. Both just threw a lot. The All-Star Game is great and all but I don’t want more of the Giants ASG curse.
BTW, maybe the reason why Vida Blue and Krukow weren’t effected by the curse is because they weren’t homegrown Giants.
Good point
Although, Rick Reuschel wasn’t homegrown, and he got lit up pretty good. I don’t think that home run Bo Jackson hit off him has even landed yet.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 14, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
brian will get rocked in the game, i dont wanna see that.. timmy just pitched 114 pitches.. i say no
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
I'm not sure
I can’t decide if it would be good or bad, but since Timmy gets so much time to rest now it could only be good vibes for him and probably Brian to. But good vibes dont fix broken arms!
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
objection, compound poll question
I don’t want Timmy to pitch so he can rest. I don’t care whether Wilson pitches or not, but if I watch the game, I’d like to see him in there. my guess is that Timmy won’t pitch unless there is a possibility of a tie.
He could pinch hit in the 17th inning, though.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 14, 2008 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
You're right
Some more detailed poll options would have been better, like say “Yes to both”, “No to both”, “Timmy Only”, “Brian only.”
Live and learn.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 14, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Furthermore...
What if I like carne asada tacos but not chicken tacos? What then? Huh, smart guy?
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
Tacos made with Tim? For Tim? By Tim?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
:O
Why do you want to eat Tim?!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Taco taco burrito!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Tacos Tacos Tacos Tacos
Speaking of which, did they just kill off the whole cast of “Reno 911” in the season finale?
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
Ooooh, I lub yoo Beeeen
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 14, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been meaning to write a song or a poem, but I have no talent.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 14, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted tacos. I love tacos
Plus, I don’t care either way. I see the arguments for and against.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
I might get tacos for lunch now because this poll suggested them.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
Curses are stupid and ridiculous
I want to see how our guys match up against the AL’s best, considering it hardly ever happens. And if they dominate, it’s that much better considering they’re in front of a national audience.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on Jul 14, 2008 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
No to our guys risking ANYthing for a stupid exhibition; big Yes to tacos.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
Your referring to the All-Star Game as a “stupid exhibition” just made Bud Selig, Vin Scully, Bob Costas, Buzz Bissinger, Sam the Eagle and Baby Jesus cry.
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
Tim doesn't really care either
Lincecum seems to be the least concerned, saying if he does not get to pitch, “whatever.” Then, Lincecum revealed he has not watched an All-Star Game and ridiculed the notion that it determines home-field advantage for the World Series.
“It’s crazy,” he said. “I thought it was supposed to be fun. Now there’s pressure on it?”
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Dammit groug you beat me to it.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Great quote from Wilson in that article
“If I was a starter, I’d probably average 270, 280 pitches per outing,” Wilson acknowledged. “That would be a little stressful.”
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I just figured it out.
Lincecum complains about the dumb newfangled ASG format. He only listens to the Beatles and Sinatra. He quotes his dad saying ice is for drinks…. TIM LINCECUM IS ACTUALLY A GRUMPY OLD MAN.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
I’d say he’s more a Water Mathau than a Jack Lemon, too.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 14, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s why I love him! I’m a cantankerous old bitch stuck in a 26 year old body!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The spirit of Bea Arthur compels you.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 14, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No No. Don’t you see, it’s obvious. Tim Lincecum is…actually his dad. His dad cloned himself into a youthful body but left his memories and personality intact. His plan: “If I can throw 88 at 55, imagine what I could throw in my early twenties!”
Only 878 games until the end of Zito's contract
I actually like this better than Tim being an alien cyborg.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
So Chris = Jango and Tim = Boba?
Bwoop…bwoop…nerd alert! nerd alert!
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
Tim Lincecum is a chewy tapioca ball?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 14, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Floating in milk tea? Getting stuck in your oversized straw?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Dammit, people. I used to like tapioca drinks and metaphor.
You’re this close [holding up thumb and index figure to indicate about an inch, inch and half] to ruining both.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jul 14, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
-3 for making Scully, Jesus and Sam cry. +2 for Selig and Costas. +50 for Bissinger. All in all it was worth it.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 14, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
but but...
i wanna see timmeh strike out the side! ;)
If my head is full of white hairs by the end of this season.. I blame Brian Wilson. (I'm only 22, dammit!)
while throwing all 9 pitches over 100 mph.. brad penny has seemed to pitch real well since he did that…........ oh wait
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
obviously
they both start and end the same. the part in the middle is irrelevant.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
Let's see what the anagrammer has to say
Anagram of “Should Timmy and Brian pitch in the All-Star Game?”
TRIUMPHANT GNASH DOMINATES AMICABLY THRILLED
I’d take that as a ‘yes.’
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 14, 2008 12:01 PM PDT reply actions
Tim-meh
From today’s Chronicle: Lincecum seems to be the least concerned, saying if he does not get to pitch, “whatever.” Then, Lincecum revealed he has not watched an All-Star Game and ridiculed the notion that it determines home-field advantage for the World Series.
“It’s crazy,” he said. “I thought it was supposed to be fun. Now there’s pressure on it?”
Oh Timmeh I loves you. Plus did he really get an RBI triple yesterday? I missed most of the game.
Clint Hurdle makes no guarantees, also from today’s Chronicle: National League All-Star manager Clint Hurdle said that Milwaukee pitcher Ben Sheets will start Tuesday’s All-Star Game at Yankee stadium, and he wouldn’t say whether Giants ace Tim Lincecum would appear in relief.
“I can’t answer that,” Hurdle said. “I’ll give him every opportunity. There are nine innings and I’ve got 12 pitchers. If it only goes nine, there’s a good chance some guys won’t pitch.”
I called Hurdle “Clide” by accident in my personal blog and laughed and kept it like that anyway. He’s a dipshit but I hope he keeps Tim out of it.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 12:06 PM PDT reply actions
It should have been a single w/ 2 base error, though. Bad play by RF.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 14, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Now I love him even more.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 14, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I think this shows that had Correia not been skipped and Timmy hadn’t pitched yesterday that he would have started.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 14, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Counter-point
Yesterday’s performance raised his win total and strikout total while lowering his ERA. I’m more into Tim’s Cy Young campaign than pitching in an exhibition game.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
Did I miss something?
I realize we don’t work by consensus on this site, which is what makes it so much fun, but wasn’t it just a couple weeks ago that most people here were all “OMG TIMMY BETTER BE STARTING THE ALL-STAR GAME!!” and now we don’t even want him pitching a single inning?
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
I was not one of the people saying that.
Proud adoptive father of Rafael Rodriguez. Hit well soon, son!
wasn't arguing
just making the point that he likely would have started over sheets. sheets is started because he is rested.
i’d rather see timmy get the cy young, too. it’s debatable whether 1 win or an All-star start would be more beneficial, tho. we could argue about it if you would like. ;)
by positiveuphemism on Jul 14, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
It really makes no difference. 20-30 pitches is nothing to a starting pitcher. To Wilson, maybe, but he gets enough rest between save oppurtunities anyways because we don’t have a lot of them. I think they would both like to pitch, and I think we owe it to them to let them play.
If Lincecum really wants to pitch, that’s fine, but I don’t think he cares all that much. At least according to what he said in the article that was linked above.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Lynx for teh Save!
Then Blockhead can put him in the bullpen for the second half.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
And, yeah, TACOS!!!
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 15, 2008 3:46 AM PDT up reply actions
these are guys dominating NL lineups. Maybe they will not dominate an allstar lineup. If they get lit up, that is bad for confidence. That’s why I voted no.
Now that I think….if they realize they got a ways to go before they are ready for a pennant race, that wd be a good thing. can I change my vote to smothered burrito at Raley’s Field (Sacramento)?
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
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