Omar Vizquel : Historically Bad?
by BaysideBaller on Jul 12, 2008 4:25 PM PDT
34 comments
First a disclaimer: I consider myself an Omar Vizquel fan. He plays short better than anyone I have ever seen. Despite all this, it can't be denied that his hitting this season is awful. A post in today's game thread gave me the idea to see how bad Omar's current .153/.225/.174 line is in the history of the game. I'm only doing batting average this time around. Warning: lots of assumptions ahead.
If Omar were to retire today, he would join only 19 hitters since 1919 to hit .153 or less in 144 AB, or 89 hitters in the history of the game.
Since requesting benching on June 30, Omar has 25 AB in 11 games, averaging about 2.27 AB/G, leaving Omar on pace for about 154 AB to finish the season, or about 300 total AB on the year. There have only been 3 players in the history of the game to bat .154 or worse with 300+ at bat, none in nearly the last 100 years.
If Omar could channel his former offensive skills and hit his 2nd half career average of .264 the rest of the way, he would finish with 63 hits (still assuming 300 AB), leaving him with an average of .210 (over the Mendoza line, yay!). This assumes Bighead wouldn't adjust his playing time to account for his reincarnated veteran gamerness. This would leave him in the company of nearly 400 hitters in the history of the game.
No matter how you spin the numbers, it does not look good for number 13.
(h/t to positiveuphemism for the idea, and the Lahman database for its awesomeness)
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I was thinking
Great research! I had been thinking that the Giants shortstops might be of near-historically bad proportions, particularly Omar and Brian Bocock. Manny Burriss has hit much better, but perhaps not well enough to raise the entire shortstop position to respectability.
by sharksrog on Jul 12, 2008 4:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks?
I think. What does h/t mean?
by positiveuphemism on Jul 12, 2008 4:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hat tip
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 12, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear Neifi Perez is available
He could give us a nice offensive boost down the stretch.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 12, 2008 6:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he win a gold glove once?
Not only could he boost our offense, but he’d provide former Gold Glove defense as well!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Jul 14, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean has done better lately, but Omar was a horrible re-signing. He put absolutely no effort in seeing if there were any better options out there, and after closing the door on Bonds and talking about rebuilding he wasted no time in bringing in a player that was 41 years old.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 12, 2008 7:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Best Option:
David Eckstein.
although, to be perfectly honest, he’s played loads better than Vizquel for a much better contract. I really don’t know how Ricardi managed to get that contract for Eckstein. He’s supremely overrated, but actually underpaid. Crazy world we live in, that one day, david eckstein would be undervalued.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 12, 2008 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think McC would’ve exploded if we signed Eckstein.
by Natto on Jul 13, 2008 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But just think of his Gamer commercial! That would have been well worth it.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
by groug on Jul 13, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His gamer commercial would have exploded the universe with its gamerness.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jul 13, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have traded for Omar Infante
And yes, I said it at the time.
Not that it’s terribly difficult to find players who are younger and better than Omar at this point.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Black Hole-mar
When Vizquel starts and plays the full game, he costs the team about a third of a run compared to what a league average shortstop would provide with the same 3.75 plate appearances.
Burriss on the other hand is so close to league average for a shortstop he’s barely cost the team a third of a run all season, while getting 126 PA to Vizquel’s 165.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 12, 2008 10:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
eh
I don’t mind him being in the lineup. He’s valuable in a number of other ways. He is a fun person off the field, which helps the team a lot in the clubhouse, especially during losing streaks like the one we’re currently in. He can also help the young infielders improve their fielding, which would be great for Burriss, because he seems to have a decent bat for a SS but his weakness is his fielding. And also his defense on the field saves a few runs. I’m hoping he can find his stroke again, though. I’d hate for him to end his career on that bad of a note…
by boonitez on Jul 13, 2008 12:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He can do most of that stuff from the bench.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omar’s OPS+ is 6.
Not 60, 6.
HE’S SO CLOSE TO NEGATIVE NUMBERS I CAN TASTE IT.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 13, 2008 5:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s getting sad. I think Bocock was actually better:
OPS+:
Bocock: 14. Vizquel: 6.
EQA:
Bocock: .161. Vizquel: .123 (ouch).
wOBA:
Bocock: .205. Vizquel: .154 (mega-ouch).
When Bocock is out hitting you, it’s time to retire.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 13, 2008 6:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew he was doing bad, I mean, that’s obvious, but wow….6. What does it take to get Burriss 5 starts a week?
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s actually up to 10 now.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 15, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s almost double! Everything’s coming up Omar.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 15, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weird thing is, Omar isn’t even the worst shortstop in the game this year. Tony Pena Jr. is at .155/.176/.204.
OPS+ of 1.
by Evan on Jul 13, 2008 5:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jul 13, 2008 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omar's not the worst statistically, but you've got to consider the intangibles
Omar is the most embarrassing.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned that Buster Olney said today that there’s a rumor that Omar will retire during the all star break. It kind of makes sense when you think about it. Burriss starts two games in a row in New York. Maybe Bochy went to Omar and told him he wasn’t starting anymore?? Then Omar plays the next three games. Maybe Omar told Bochy of his plans to retire??? It would also explain why Ochoa was put on the 40 and recalled.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 13, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baggarly talked to Omar after the game today and said that he dismissed the rumor.
It never occurred to me that one man could play with the faith of 50 million.
by imovermyhead on Jul 13, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the goodbyes were so tender!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 13, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember Magowan?
Just a couple months ago, rumors were swirling that Peter Magowan was going to step down as MGP for the Giants. Then the media relations people came out with a statement that Peter isn’t stepping down. Then like a week later, Peter said he was stepping down at the end of the season.
Is this possibly another smokescreen being thrown up by the Giants?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Jul 14, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Early retirement?
I’ve read and heard elsewhere, fans suggesting that Omar retire at the All-Star break.
I cannot, in 33 years as a baseball fan, recall a player retiring at the All Star break. I imagine it’s happened, maybe many times, but if so it doesn’t ring any bells. Any examples of recent/notable ASB retirements? (Did McCovey retire at the ASB?)
by Cleophus on Jul 13, 2008 10:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Early retirement?
more like six months too late retirement.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alot of players retire after being DFA’d, so I guess it’s possible that the Giants will tell Omar that he should retire rather than suffer through the embarrassment of being dumped. Then again, they seem to be so damn sentimental about a player they had for three years, that they might let him play until he’s 60.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 14, 2008 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pure Awfulness
Assuming this is Omar’s last year…
Only 1 player with more than 1 season of MLB experience had at least 172 PA in their final year and put up an OPS+ of 11 or less…
Bill Bergen, C, 1911, OPS+ -4 (11 Seasons, Career OPS+ 21)
Helluva way to go out…
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on Jul 14, 2008 2:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tradition!
Since I’ve followed the Giants, other than Aurilia Version 1.0, their shortstops have been pretty aweful at the plate.
Omar wasn’t too shabby when he first got here. I think he must’ve still had some Cleveland mojo going. That seems to have been corrected and then some.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jul 14, 2008 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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