BA Top 25 and Draft Update
by slcgiant on Jul 12, 2008 12:00 PM PDT
46 comments
Baseball America is running a Midseason update to their Top 100 list and Tim Alderson ranked 19 and Madison Bumgarner ranked 25.
In addition, Pablo Sandoval was the catcher on the mid season all star all surprise team.
I also emailed Andy Baggerly looking for draft updates. I want to give a major shout out to Andy for always being so classy and willing to respond to Giants fans. I have dealt with a number of reporters over the years and Andy strikes me as a genuinely good guy. Here is his response;
"The Giants' first three picks all slipped past their projections so I'm sure Gillaspie and Kieschnick want more than slot. Not a surprise those are taking time. Same with the UCLA shortstop. He was projected as a first-rounder before having a terrible season. I'd be surprised if any of them fail to sign, but we've got a long, long time before the deadline. Even if they aren't signed before Aug. 1, I wouldn't worry. The Giants cant afford not to sign them.
One note: Tyler Thompson has said he will go to the University of Florida."This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I’d be surprised if any of them fail to sign, but we’ve got a long, long time before the deadline. Even if they aren’t signed before Aug. 1, I wouldn’t worry. The Giants cant afford not to sign them.
I’m really glad to hear that.
Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.
by SF Pete on Jul 12, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So how many prospects do we now have on this list?
Is Angel still on it?
by boonitez on Jul 12, 2008 12:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just those two. It should probably also be pointed out that BA’s mid-season top 25 list does not include prospects currently in the majors and not include prospects signed/drafted this year.
I was going to respond that Villalona did not make any pre-season top 25 lists, but that would incorrect. He was #33 on BA’s list, but he was #19 on Jim Callis’s personal list for BA and #20 on Keith Law’s list.
by steve S on Jul 12, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Same with the UCLA shortstop. He was projected as a first-rounder before having a terrible season.”
i think its funny how they decide a SS who hit 300/400/500 and played well with the glove as a terrible season… if a 900 ops is terrible whats a 396 ops? (im lookin at you omar)
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 12, 2008 3:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Crawford
According to what I have read, the UCLA shortstop, Crawford, was looked at as a first or second round draft pick until he struggled badly in the wood bat Cape Cod League last summer. It was said that his problems last summer may have carried over to his UCLA season this spring, since even though the numbers you cite are good, they were off his numbers from the previous year. Crawford is from Pleasanton, and although he probably grew up an A’s fan rather than a Giants’ fan, he probably would love playing for a Bay Area team.
The numbers you cited were good, but I believe the Pac is a hitters’ league. I once worked with a Pac-10 umpire and asked him to critique me behind the plate. He said my strike zone was consistent, but that he would widen it, that in the Pac they called strikes on balls one ball off the plate on the inside and two balls off on the outside, but still had ninth place hitters who batted .300.
So Crawford’s numbers should likely be significantly discounted—particularly since he struggled so badly (something like .188 IIRC) with the wood bat last summer.
by sharksrog on Jul 12, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sharksrog has it right. Beat me to it on everything re: Crawford. I like this pick and I think he’ll work out well.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 12, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
What I read was probably written by you, Baron! :)
by sharksrog on Jul 12, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was named the sixth best prep baseball prospect in Northern California by the San Francisco Chronicle.
You got it all but that. ;)
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 12, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
out of highschool
he was looked at as a 3rd round pick, but he wanted a million or he was just gonna go to ucla so everyone passed on him. i still dont get how after 3 years of college and he played well, his draft status dropped
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 13, 2008 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not saying he had a great year, but the only difference between sophomore and junior year was he lowered his avg, but kept his OBP the same.
btw i grew up with craw, hes definately a giant fan, hate the a’s
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 13, 2008 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think hitting .300 with an aluminum bat is disappointing for somebody hoping to go in the first round.
by Dan from NM on Jul 12, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mad Bum
I would rank Mad Bum well ahead of Timmy Two, even though I realize BA did the opposite.
Tim pitched another good six inning (6IP, 5H, 1BB, 6K) last night and certainly has made himself a fine prospect. He is pitching one level above Mad Bum, which obviously is a clear advantage for Tim.
But while Tim is pitching quite well in High A, Mad Bum is flat-out dominating Low A, striking out many more and showing the same good control. And here is the kicker: Mad Bum is nine months younger than Timmy Two. I don’t think it is a stretch to see Mad Bum pitching even better in High A next season than Timmy Two is pitching there now.
And while Timmy Two could still be promoted to AA before season’s end, I think there is a far greater chance Mad Bum will reach AA earlier next season.
I’m quite pleased with the progress of both. But if Mad Bum can keep his arm healthy (and I do worry about his mechanics a bit), I think he could have the potential to fit between Lincecum and Cain in the rotation. If David Price is called up before year’s end, I think Mad Bum will be the top southpaw prospect who hasn’t reached the majors.
by sharksrog on Jul 12, 2008 3:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with everything u said but,
why is it more likely Mad Bum gets to conneticut faster than Alderson? especially becuase Alderson is already posting great numbers at San Jose and Mad Bum is a level below Alderson
by caincecum on Jul 12, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he meant Mad Bum will reach AA earlier in the ‘09 season than Tim will in the ‘08 season—which would be significant because Mad Bum is almost a year younger than Tim.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 12, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great call, Josh!
I obviously didn’t say it very well, but what I meant was that there was a better chance Mad Bum would reach AA in early 2009 than that Timmy Two would be called up there this season.
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a big fan of the Mad Bum, but think everyone is overrating him a tad. While his performance at Augusta is impressive, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He’s a lefty with great velocity and a somewhat funky delivery; it’s really not surprising he’s dominating low minors hitters. I’m a much bigger believer in Alderson until Bumgarner continues his success at higher levels. Why haven’t they promoted him yet, by the way?
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 12, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
uhh
Bumgarner – not a funky delivery
Alderson – a very funky delivery.
I agree though, Bumgarner should be promoted. The problem with him is that he doesn’t really show any other pitch other than the change and the fastball. Unless, I suppose, somehow he developed a brilliant breaking pitch recently.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 12, 2008 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It looks a little funky to me, but mine is a very amateur opinion.
Anyways, my point wasn’t about comparing the funkyness of their deliveries, I was just trying to say that Bumgarner’s delivery might be contributing to his video game numbers.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 13, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not brilliant, but there
I saw the video of a game Mad Bum pitched early in the season. IIRC he had a decent breaking ball, not necessarily a great one and one on which he didn’t have great loctation, as well as a change that seemed to fit the same basic description.
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should be noted that Alderson is doing well in a big-time hitter’s league, while Bumgarner is pitching in a far more neutral league.
That, and that Tim is pitching at a higher level, is a big reason why Alderson is rated higher despite how dominating Bumgarner has been.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 12, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you agree?
Thanks for the explanation of why Timmy Two is higher ranked than Mad Bum. Do you personally agree with that evaluation, or would have have them as equals or even have Mad Bum rated higher?
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word
Remember Henry Sosa dominated the Sally. Then hit the Cal and he’s still hit or miss. I get the impression that you can pretty much dominate the Sally with a big league fastball and nothing else, but in the Cal you have to have awesome control or two big league pitches to succeed.
by Change Up on Jul 13, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what you're saying is that
Matt Cain will the fourth starter at best?
AT BEST!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Jul 12, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Cain sucks
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 12, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not give Matt Cain short shrift
I have mentioned that the first time I saw him pitch I at least raised the possibility Matt would become a #2 starter rather than a #1 guy. But let’s not give Matt short shrift. I think he’s going to have a very good second half. He’s certainly off to a great start, having outpitched even Tim Lincecum in his first three starts of the second half.
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
Well said. We have to patient here, as he is still quite young. Because he’s been at the MLB level for some time now, we have tendency to expect fast development, but we have to remember how young he was when he came up. Hopefully he keeps throwing all his pitches, and in doing so develops better control of the breaking and off speed stuff (which can still happen). If he does that he will be very special.
by haverecords on Jul 13, 2008 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how often this site is updated, but here is a list of those who have signed thus far.
Sabes and company have some work to do.
Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.
by sfgreg on Jul 12, 2008 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw that the Astros signed Castro today, too.
Sort of bothered that all but three of the sandwich round picks are signed and Gillaspie is one of the not-yet-signed.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 12, 2008 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many rounds deep does the if not sign this year you get a comparative pick next season go?
by wilriv21 on Jul 12, 2008 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a team doesn’t sign a pick in the first or second round, it gets a pick in essentially the same slot in the next draft. Previously, unsigned first-rounders merited a pick at the end of the supplemental first round. Unsigned picks beyond that drew no compensation.
Per BA: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/draft-basics/2008/266138.html
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 12, 2008 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But wait there's moar
Unsigned third-round picks will merit a supplemental pick between the third and fourth rounds next year. The hope from MLB’s perspective is that teams will be more willing to walk away from a draft pick (and high bonus) if they know they will get an equivalent pick the next year, though that did not prove to be the case last year.
Also from the link.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 12, 2008 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signability
Everyone was happy that the Giants’ drafted guys without regard to signability, and now everybody is all nervous that we haven’t signed them. Didn’t you think it would take longer if they drafted guys that were asking for big money?? We all heard that Posey wanted 12 million, and then we drafted guys in round 2, 3, and 4 who all thought they deserved to be first round picks, and are asking for first round money. I’m sure they’ll get it done.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jul 12, 2008 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's in
our nature to worry and complain.
so . . . let it be?
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 12, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There will be an answer
Let it be.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jul 15, 2008 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get them signed
Does it bother anyone else the we are one of two teams (the other is the Nationals) who have not signed any of the top four drafted players? It bothers me a bit. They have enough information to know the ranges of the bonuses being offered. Get er done Sabes and company.
by APGiantsFan on Jul 13, 2008 9:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish they were signed, yes. If anything other then to expedite their development process. Now they’ve essentially lost a whole year.
by Hobbes2d on Jul 13, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offer Fair Money
If players do not sign, especially after losing out on playing time this summer, then get the picks for the first three rounds next season. Crawford is overrated.
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How?
Your idea is a good one, but how do we define fair money? Personally I am leaning toward gambling a bit more money on draft picks and less on free agents.
Or would you rather have Barry Zito than Tim Lincecum? :)
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s be honest – Lincecum FELL to the GIants.
Any organization needs to be smart with their monies. I would tend to risk my monies on a proven talent over an unknown. Would never give a pitcher a long-term deal for large monies. When Lincecum becomes a FA believe SF should think about dealing him for a ton of talent rather than giving him a long-term deal.
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on board with you here..
I’m all for paying for the young talent. It might be better to think of it in terms of ‘reasonable’ rather than ‘fair’. ‘Fair’ draws attention to the market in first order, whereas ‘reasonable’ does only in a secondary sense. If you like the player, forget the slot, and pay the bonus (unless it is crazy).
by haverecords on Jul 13, 2008 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is he overrated
if anything he is underrated.. possible 1st/2nd round talent that we got in the 4th
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jul 13, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possible 1st/2nd round talent that ALL the other teams passed over 3 or 4 times?
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn’t really mean much. Purely theoretically, he could have been the #20-30 guy on every single teams board, they just happened to be able to grab guys they had ranked higher at every pick. The fact is, a year ago he was one of the top rated prospects. Since then, he’s struggled and consequently his stock dropped significantly. This is a textbook way to acquire undervalued assets with great upside.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jul 13, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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