Matt LaPorta
The quintessential case of drafting the best available and not for need. LaPorta can play two positions (1B and LF) both of which the Brewers have locked down for the future (between Prince and Braun). This guy is clearly one of the best bats in the minors and could fill a big hole for the Giants future at either position.
What's that you say? Braun can move to RF? Well, Corey Hart plays there and while Hart could oneday move to center, the Brewers would likely have one of the worst OF defenses in baseball seeing as all 3 guys would be poor defenders for their positions. Plus, MIL has some damn good OF prospects better suited to handle the OF defensively, like Cole Gillespie.
Braun to 3B? Been there, done that, horrible defense. Plus Mat Gamel seems like a great 3B option of the future (currently has an OPS of 1.122 at AA in his age 22 season).
Well, Prince could very well walk away in 3 years when he is FA eligible, leaving LaPorta to replace him by then. Well, Prince could very well be done with MIL in 3 years, but you have to imagine MIL will do everything in their power to try and extend him this year and even if not, LaPorta is one year away, not 3. Still, this is the best argument for MIL keeping LaPorta in my mind.
So, I think the Giants should make a real push for Matt LaPorta. The Brewers are looking for two things at the trading deadline, which should be pitching and a catcher (Kendall's current OPS is .649). I don't know exactly what it would take, but I'd offer Sanchez, Molina, Keichi Yabu (or Chulk if they prefer), and Taschner for LaPorta, Dave Bush, and Kendall (for salary purposes). I'd even throw in Henry Sosa if need be, but hopefully that would be enough (assuming MIL views Bush and Kendall as extremely expendable. obviously if they don't, we don't need them).
Perhaps even a 3 way deal that would include Winn to a team looking for a CF (MIL's OF is stacked as it is) seeing as Winn is the guy we need to trade most, even more than Molina, with Schierholtz knocking on the door.
What do you guys think? I would LOVE for Sabes to be aggressive after LaPorta who is a perfect fit for the Giants as he plays two positions of need and is a right handed slugger who wouldn't be affected by Mays Field. Plus, I think Bush would also be a fantastic pickup, but certainly only if MIL has finally had enough of him.
Sanchez really isn't the kind of pitcher MIL is looking for, and they are likely looking for a more established starter, but Sanchez is young and has a live arm and has out performed EVERY MIL SP not named Sheets. Sanchez not only would help MIL now but also fo r the next 4 years and Molina only makes a great offense greater and the relievers help make a decent pen even deeper.
What do you guys think? What would it take? I'd trade Molina, Sanchez, Correia, Yabu for LaPorta, Bush, and Kendall as well. Think that would be enough? Add Sosa into that mix?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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77 comments
Comments
not
going to happen.
You don’t just trade for #1 prospects! that’s not how it works!
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 5, 2008 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
never say never
Delmon Young was traded after his rookie year.
I fully expect MIL to move him although I think they would want a higher quality of players then what I mentioned. Likely a more proven starter than Sanchez. There won’t be much avaliable this year, perhaps the best names being Washburn, Wolf, and the best of which is Blanton.
Sanchez is a promising young starter. He’s had some success this year and has tremendous K rates and still is 4+ seasons from free agency. Sanchez does have some decent value seeing as he can help the brewers both NOW and for the next 4 years. Molina is definitely a big upgrade for them offensively as well. Perhaps we’d need to include someone like Sosa as well, but I don’t know, it’s worth thinkin gabout I think.
Bumgarner is a more realistic idea, but maybe even a sanchez/wilson/Molina trio could be enough haul for the Brewers
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 5, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Cain?
........I’m just sayin’...........dont attack me for heresey.
by sam23 on Jun 5, 2008 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can’t be stopped at this point. I’m already in attack mode.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 6, 2008 3:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, sorry!
I take it back! but I still say we should be very open to trading Cain if we can get a Haren-type return.
by sam23 on Jun 6, 2008 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adrian Gonzalez, too
He was the #1 overall pick
by boonitez on Jun 5, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just saw a story in ESPN magazine that said Adrian Gonzalez was the only one of the top ten picks that year (2000) to make the major leagues. The other nine have been busts. That’s the risks involved here. We talked about trading LaPorta for Brian Wilson the other day, and I’m dead set against that. I feel the same way about putting both Jonathan Sanchez and Henry Sosa into the same trade. I might give them Sosa, but Jonathan Sanchez is already showing what he can do at the major league level. There’s a reason the Giants are 9-3 when he starts, and nobody, and I mean nobody thinks that Sanchez has come anywhere close to reaching his potential. Minor leaguer for minor leaguer. Sosa for LaPorta. You also cannot include Correia in the same deal. You can’t trade 40 percent of your rotation. I know we’re not winning this year, but who wants to see a rotation of Bush, Zito and Misch??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Jun 6, 2008 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You wouldn’t do Sanchez for LaPorta?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jun 6, 2008 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not I
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jun 6, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor I
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 6, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah back to agreeing
much better.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jun 6, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When have we disagreed?
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 6, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I’ll have to respectfully disagree.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jun 7, 2008 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mag also claimed that he was basically disappointing, not the #1 star that Florida thought they were drafting. Well, except for the fact that Florida didn’t reap the rewards, all I can say is REALLY? REALLY? ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME?
They really don’t understand park effects. Not a bit. He’s still only 26 with an OPS+ of 127, then 125, and now 149 this year.
Rant over. Thanks for reading.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 6, 2008 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel free to rant
You’re among friends here. Also, you are absolutely correct.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 7, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
after your “rookie” year, you aren’t a prospect any longer.
Also, who did he get traded for? THE TWINS #1 rookie and former #1 prospect!
Sanchez/Wilson/Molina is not enough. Try Bumgarner/Sanchez/molina
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 6, 2008 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're saying...
once Delmon Young got his 1 season underneath is belt, the Rays viewed him completely different? 500 MLB at bats outweighs talent, projectability, and 1000 minor league at bats?
Adam Jones was also traded as a #1
Kurt Ainsworth
Cameron Maybin
Hanley Ramirez
Saltalamacchia
Jason Grilli
Sizemore
Pavano
Daric Barton
Carlos Gonzalez
Lastings Milledge
There are plenty of cases where it happens, but not all no. 1 prospects are made equally, it’s a case by case basis, but usually it would be for a bigger haul than Sanchez, Correia, Molina, Sosa, and relievers. That’s a quantity for quality trade, whereas I think MIL would rather have quality for quality. I just don’t think there’s any SP’s on the market that fits that need
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact,
I think you’d have to say Detroit traded their top 3 prospects this offseason. And Boston gave up a significant haul in the Beckett trade. I think all of this “that’s never going to happen talk is overstated.” The Brewers have developed tons of hitting and clearly need some pitching to go with it if they’re going to compete. And I’d guess they don’t want prospects they want major leaguers who can step in and help the club compete for pennants at this point in their development.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jun 6, 2008 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re not going to get laporta unless you’re willing to give up a really good prospect in return. like maybe a bumgarner and molina for laporta and kendall… but you’d probably even have to throw in another arm closer to/in the majors.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jun 5, 2008 9:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers are not trading Matt LaPorta.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
by Anticon23 on Jun 5, 2008 9:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers
If the Brewers trade for pitching they should be looking for a ground ball pitcher since they play in bandboxes in the NL Central. If I was the GM of Milwaukee I would trade Fielder by the winter of 2009 because he is going to be expensive and LaPorta should be ready.
by wilriv21 on Jun 5, 2008 10:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But you can't expect LaPorta to come anything close to Fielder
Losing Fielder would hurt their lineup no matter how good LaPorta does. And LaPorta probably won’t hit 30-50 homers a year like Fielder already does. Also, Prince is also already pretty much the face of their franchise. They would probably wouldn’t mind spending a little money on him if he draws a crowd.
by boonitez on Jun 6, 2008 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we can make a trade for this Tim Beckahm kid...
the Brewers are not trading LaPorta and this is a silly discussion.
Also, according to MLB rules you can not trade a player until at least one year after he signs his first pro contract, so this wouldn’t even be possible for another month or two.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 5, 2008 11:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lets say
Milwaukee has basically given up hope of retaining Sheets a couple months from now. Wouldnt they have to have significant interest in Matt Cain? Cain/Molina for LaPorta/Hall. I know it would be tough to deal away half of the lincecain 1-2 punch, but if he were to be traded LaPorta is exactly the kind of thing I would expect the Giants to seek in return. Gallardo/Cain would fortify the front end of their rotation for the next few years while Fielder/Braun anchored the lineup. Plus Mil could probably get a couple decent prospects from a contender for a half year of Sheets. LaPorta would probably be the frontrunner for the 1B gig next spring for us and we’d still have the Franchise and Dirty at the front of our rotation.
by sam23 on Jun 5, 2008 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that case
I’d have no interest. LaPorta is a great hitting prospect, but not worth Cain. LaPorta is good, damn good, but I don’t see him being a superstar. Great slugger, but I wouldn’t give up Matt Cain (who is LaPorta’s age and already has nearly 3 years of MLB experience). Alderson, Sanchez, and Molina though? I’d think about it.
Perhaps Balentien is more attainable if SEA gets back into the race and is looking to make a deadline deal to put them over the top
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer
I prefer the combination of Tim Alderson, Jonathan Sanchez and Bengie Molina to Matt Cain. Either Alderson or Sanchez could be as good as or even better than Matt, and Bengie should have some trade value as the deadline nears—next year if not this one.
Maybe in 2010 Buster Posey and Pablo Sandoval can take over behind the dish.
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the presence of Lincecum makes people constantly undervalue Cain. He’s 23 years old and has already pitched over 500 big league innings of 1.25 WHIP baseball. The historical list of pitchers in that same category is a small.
LaPorta is 23 and has about 200 at-bats above A-ball.
by mxmob33 on Jun 6, 2008 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right
I also think people undervalue Sanchez. No he’s not a guy with an ace’s upside, but how many lefties can maintain a 9+ K/9 in the bigs? He’s young, cheap, and making bats miss. He’s having a solid year and just needs to work on his 3rd pitch and his command of the strike zone.
Perhaps Oliver Perez is a scary comparison, but Perez also has put together some damn impressive years to go along with his horrendous years. Sanchez also seems to have better composure and I’d say he has a better chance of gaining better command (although I do think Perez’s stuff is better)
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Matt might be overrated
Don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Matt Cain. I think he’s got an almost perfect demeanor for baseball—and he’s a heck of a pitcher, to boot.
But since Tim was called up, Matt really hasn’t pitched very well. He will likely break out of it, but I think he could be headed for another rough spot, which hopefully will be brief before he hopefully makes a very strong rebound. I think his control is his biggest problem. In particular, he seems to be having a hard time getting his change up over, and last season it was a marvelously controlled pitch, particularly late in the season.
Since June 26th of last year, Tim’s ERA has been over a run and a quarter lower than Matt’s. During that time Tim has been terrific; Matt, mediocre (or a little above).
I won’t go into details, since the game is about to start, but I view tonight as Tim’s most important start since June 26th.
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that since Tim was called up, MATT HAS PITCHED WELL, AND CONSISTENTLY SO.
Why do people keep making this connection that Matt Cain pitching worse than Tim lincecum automatically equals Matt Cain pitching poorly. It’s stupid!
Man, this is quickly rising up my list of pet peeves. Alex Smith/Shaun Hill people better watch out.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 6, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I shudder at this trade idea. Cain is far too valuable to give up for LaPorta at this point, and I wound’t want Hall’s contract going forward, unless the Brewers wanted to kick in a bunch of dough. Seriously rather have Brandon Inge for around the same $, and what does that say?
by tyrannoman on Jun 6, 2008 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could certainly get alot more for Cain at this point. Let’s start with the Bedard deal. Cain has more service time left and a much better track record for health (Bedard had never pitched a full season before being dealt).
LaPorta’s a good prospect but I’m not sure I’d say he’s better than Jones (who brings better defense to the equation) and Seattle chipped in several other players including one of the currently best performing closers in the AL who could certainly be flipped for even more talent if Baltimore is so inclined (especially as Sherrill is left handed and throws with some juice).
If you want to start talking Cain more than one prime prospect would have to be coming this way. Starting point for negotiations I think would be 3 blue chippers.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Jun 6, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I first considered the idea of the Brewers dropping LaPorta and I thought you were retarted...
but you actually make a good case. Although, I don’t like the idea of trading all of those players you mentioned for basically one prospect. That’s not too smart because some good prospects still tend to not work out in the majors. But I’d offer them something like Molina/Yabu/Hennesey/Correia for LaPorta and Kendall. I think they could bite on that because Molina’s a huge upgrade over Kendall. Correia would be one of their best starters and Yabu one of their better relievers. And there’s a chance Hennesey might get good again, so he’d essentially just be a pack of splenda for the deal. But I guess all this would have to do with how close they are to the wildcard, because there’s no way they’re catching the Cubs. They’d never do it if they had no chance of getting to the playoffs.
by boonitez on Jun 5, 2008 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
there is absolutely no way in the world they would make that deal you just outlined there.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jun 6, 2008 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it depends on how close they are to the Cubs or the WC. Molina would be a huge upgreade, and Hennessey or Correra would be a short term improvement. If I was a game or two back at the trading deadlilne, I might pull the trigger on that. If they are farther out, then no.
by tyrannoman on Jun 6, 2008 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Brewers deal LaPorta
It would be for offensive and pitching upgrades NOW. The only conceivable way they’d deal away young talent is to make a run at the WS this year. Thus, what we’d have that they want on offense: Benji. That’s pretty much it. Pitching: Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Correia (if he comes back, is healthy & pitches well), Wilson, maybe Walker, Taschner, Hinshaw, maybe Misch, maybe Chulk, maybe Sadler. We’re absolutely not going to deal Lincecum, Walker or Hinshaw, leaving the following on the board:
Benji
Cain
Sanchez
Correia
Walker
Taschner
Misch
Sadler
Chulk
Of those, probably the best package we could put together without giving away Cain would include Benji, Sanchez and either Correia or Taschner, but probably both.
In exchange the Brewers could give up LaPorta and Kendall.
However, Benji has another year on his contract at $6M for ‘09. Kendall’s contract expires this year, so they’re taking on salary, which might not be a problem if they think Benji fits into their plans to make a run at a title for the next two years.
Even with all this, I don’t think the Brewers make this deal.
Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.
by tedfordfan on Jun 6, 2008 6:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that he’s not a great prospect, but LaPorta’s gotten a little overrated. He looks like Pat Burrell to me: a good but not awesome slugger who costs you quite a few runs when he’s in the field. Is that worth giving up on the chance that Jonathan Sanchez pitches like Randy Johnson’s better-looking kid brother for the next few years? I don’t think so.
by Evan on Jun 6, 2008 7:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We’ll, if we hypothetically did get LaPorta, we play him at first immediately. Defensive problem solved.
by xanthan on Jun 6, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not solved, just ameliorated. He was considered a poor first baseman coming out of college.
by Evan on Jun 6, 2008 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/hands you book entitled
Anyone Can Play First! by Cecil Fielder.
I’ve always heard he was an average 1B defender in college.
by xanthan on Jun 6, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him at first. For Brian Wilson and Henry Sosa? Sure, absolutely. For the guy who currently has the fourth-best strikeout rate of all major league starting pitchers? No.
by Evan on Jun 6, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m not sure I’d move Cain for him, YET, but I am saying that if we traded for LaPorta, hypothetically, we’d definitely have a place to stick him.
by xanthan on Jun 6, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the guy who currently has the fourth-best strikeout rate of all major league starting pitchers = Sanchez, not Cain.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jun 7, 2008 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted this on the Brewers SBN Site
Hopfully we can get the Milwaukee perspective on what it would take to get LaPorta.
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2008/6/6/547207/matt-laporta
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 6, 2008 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, one of them is an idiot
One Brewer fan said he had to look up Jonathan Sanchez and when he found out Sanchez was a 24th round pick he’d have no interest. No mention of him being a 25 year old left hander far away from free agency and is currently 4th in the league in K/9 for an SP
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jonathan sanchez
and again, keep in mind my only knowledge includes no observation at all.
while sanchez looks intriguing, he just doesn’t have the track record of success i’d want to see. and i use the 24th round as a proxy for his pre-professional track record. so i shouldn’t say i have “no” interest, just not the level required to deal major league talent for sanchez.
so, want to tell me about him (without using his A-ball as a 22 year old stats)?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez
I’ll start by saying I do not believe LaPorta will be traded for anything less than a proven MLB stud (i.e. a Bedard type). LaPorta is definitely more valuable than Sanchez, I cannot argue against that.
Now onto to other points
a) using draft rounds as a barometer of a players ability is flawed logic. Albert Pujols was a 13th round pick. Piazza was a 46th round pick. Oswalt a 23rd. The list goes on and on
b) Sanchez has the ability to make bats miss. He’s done it on every level and continues to do it on the big league level. His K/9 in the bigs has always been above 9, how many starters can say that? How many left handed starters can say that? How many 25 year old left handers can say that? It’s safe to say Jonathan Perez has a tremendous amount of upside because he can be one of the best in baseball at making hitters miss. The big issue is whether or not he can improve his command of the strike zone and work on his changeup
c) I think LaPorta in RF is a huge stretch, Braun has a better chance to play that position. Everything I’ve heard about LaPorta is that his OF defense is pretty horrendous, but his bat is so damn good you can hide him in LF (a la Manny or Burrell). Hart CAN play CF, but he’s better suited for right and an OF defense of LaPorta-Hart-Braun would be one of the worst defensively in the bigs. That being said it would also be the best offensive OF in the bigs too.
d) I apologize for calling you an idiot, but I do think the fact that you’d never even heard of Sanchez is a bit surprising. No, he’s not a certified stud, but he s 5th amongst NL starters in terms if K/9. He also has better stats that any Brewers SP not named Sheets. if you look at the guys who are Sanchez’s level in K/9 that features names like Scherzer, Big Unit, Beckett, Pevy, Kazmir, Lincecum, Billingsley, Volquez, Sabathia, Vazquez. That’s pretty good company
Bottom line: I was just fishing with the names I threw out. Truthfully, I think the deal of Sanchez, Sosa, Molina, Yabu for LaPorta and Kendall is a fair deal, but the Brewers likely want someone more proven if they are going to give up their best trade chip. The Brewers probably aren’t looking for depth, but for quality. Sanchez has a long way to go, but he is already a productive MLB pitcher and he’s striking out guys at an elite rate
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to add to track record
His minor league K/9 rate is 11.88 in over 250 innings. The only time his K/9 has ever been below double digits is his first year in rookie ball where his K/9 rate is 9.35
You also can’t devalue the fact that he is young and Left handed. Sanchez, Sosa, LaPorta, and Yabu is a fair offer for LaPorta, Bush, and Kendall I feel.
I think Braun is a much better player than LaPorta, but I do agree that LaPorta will have the same quick success as Braun. Personally, I think LaPorta is going to have a career similar to Pat Burrell, which is quite good.
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool.
just two points.
a) i dont think its flawed. what round a player was drafted in tells you what mlb thought of the player as an amateur. you misread my statement as a ‘proxy for talent’ when really i wrote proxy for pre-professional track record. if he was drafted in the first round, i’d believe that his minor and major league numbers were a starting point, not his ceiling.
finally, k% is a great stat, very important. and sanchez’s k% is impressive over 160 major league innings, and also impressive over his 75ish minor league innings above A ball. but you can’t ignore bb%, which is what you are doing. and there aren’t too many successful pitchers with career bb% over 11%.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not ignoring it
if it weren’t for his walks, sanchez would be one of the best pitchers in baseball. his command is poor right now, but walk rates do improve over the course of a career. A pitcher can learn to improve control, pitcher’s generally don’t learn how to strike out a guy per inning
At this point in Sanchez career (4 years removed from that draft) it really doesn’t matter anymore. After Pujols rookie year, would you be scared away from him because of the round he was drafted in?
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok.
just looking at sanchez’s numbers, he looks like manny parra with a lower ceiling and less command. i just don’t see a comparison between a back of the rotation starter and a potential franchise cornerstone (laporta). it’s really not close.
i think you severely overvalue sanchez. take this test: would you trade sanchez for parra? you certainly can say no, but you have to admit it’s close, right? i would rather have parra, he’s much more polished and much more projectable, and i’ll wager parra goes on to have a more successful career. and i’ll bet sanchez is pitching exlusively from the bullpen before he hits arbitration.
but, i enjoyed the discussion. if sanchez is the above average pitcher you think he’s going to be, the giants would be smart to hang onto him. Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez could be quite awesome. best of luck!
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lower ceiling?
how so, because he strikes out 2 more guys per inning? Has better stuff, more MLB success and is the same age?
You, my good sir, cannot be objective. Parra and Sanchez have similarities, but thee is NO justification whatsoever to Parra being the better prospect.
Both have control problems, but only Sanchez has elite strikeout abilities
Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!
by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you had ever seen Sanchez pitch you wouldn't compare him to Manny Parra
Sanchez has only had 2 bad outings this season. Other than that, he’s been almost perfect as a starter. Parra has been an okay reliever and that’s probably all he will ever be. Sanchez is recognized as a damn good pitching prospect, while he might not be on the level of Lincecum or Cain. And Sanchez didn’t work that well out of the bullpen so the management moved him exclusively to starting. So don’t bet too much on him relieving. Also, the reason most of us wouldn’t mind trading him is because our organization has a good amount of depth at pitching in the lower levels that will likely be pretty good eventually. Sanchez is pretty expendable to us.
by boonitez on Jun 6, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll just come over here and post.
laporta has, i believe, been playing exclusively RF in AA. Corey Hart is a very good defender and can play center.
Yes, an OF of Braun-Hart-LaPorta, would not be very good. But the brewers believe that Braun can be an average LF, and Hart has the potential to be above average, so it won’t be horrible.
LaPorta is currently hitting .294/.404/.606 in AA, and was consider to be one of the top sluggers in the ‘07 draft. He’s on the Ryan Braun path to the major leagues. College slugger, full year in AA, two-three months in AAA, major leagues.
I really don’t think he’s available. Honestly, he looks like Ryan Braun so far, a little less athletic, but better plate discipline. Isn’t that really the most valuable commodity in baseball? An advanced, pre-pre-arby, 23 year old slugger.
So I imagine the brewers look at laporta similarly to the way they look at braun, obviously, with a little more risk. I imagine the brewers see laporta similarly to the way the giants look at lincecum. the most valuable thing you can have.
If I’m the giants, i don’t give up lincecum or cain for the same reasons if i’m the brewers i dont give up laporta.
ps. neifichicken, that idiot is me. i’ll calrify my lack of interest in sanchez.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta question
Is he really going to stay in AA all year? Assuming he keeps up his current pace, what more does he have to prove? Why wouldn’t he be bumped up to AAA for half the season?
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jun 6, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a Brewers fan, but I think LaPorta could hit MLB pitching right now. Heck, some said he could handle it straight out of the draft last year.
The Brewers don’t have a great spot for him right now so he’ll stay in the minors and work on his transition to OF. If Fielder or Braun goes down, I bet he’s the first guy they call up.
by xanthan on Jun 6, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there is no reason to think he couldn’t hit in the majors right now. The average might not be great right off the bat, but he should be just fine when combined with his power and discipline.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jun 6, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing time
They already have a problem getting playing time for all the outfielders they have at AAA, so he can continue to mash AA pitching before getting called up in September. None of the AAA players are at the level of LaPorta, but they are interesting pieces/projects that the organization is trying to evaluate.
If you want a 1B on the cheap you should be asking about Brad Nelson. 25 yo, has a 984 ops at AAA this year and has nowhere to go inside the organization.
by Getting Yosted on Jun 6, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see, thanks.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jun 6, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Yosted
you sly dog.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've said it before
and I’ll say it again. Deal Cain for Fielder, not Laporta. Cain would give them one extra year (he’s an FA in 2102, Fielder in 2011), and they get to bring up LaPorta now (I assume he can play the cold corner?). They need SP as much as anyone, and Fielder hasn’t been able to make up the difference this year producing runs. And for us, we have a slugger to play 1b until AnVil comes up.
by BigO on Jun 6, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
That would really be tempting. Our offense is still kind of sluggish right now, but…wow. That would be quite the blockbuster.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You couldn’t give me Fielder for free. It’s very unlikely he’ll stick in the bigs after age 30. He’ll be Jack Cust in an eyeblink.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 6, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lyle, that's just idiotic
since Prince just turned 24. So you are saying you won’t take 6 years of a great slugger? And Cust has no BA skills where Prince will bat .280+, and don’t forget getting hits is a skill.
As for LaPorta, he’s not going anywhere short of Cain or Timmy the freak. Sorry.
by Hyatt on Jun 6, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually try to avoid being critical
but that’s just silly.
THE BREWERS: “Please, Lyle, take Prince Fielder and his 50 home runs last season from us! We’ll pay his entire salary!”
LYLE: “No, no! He may be hitting a home run every 15.7 ABs in his career, but I want no part of that! That man is…JACK CUST!!!”
Sure, all along there have been reports that his weight will be his downfall, and that he really should be the DH for some American League team. And both of those might ultimately be right. However, it certainly hasn’t happened yet. Plus, in the past 7 days, he’s swatted 4 home runs and raised his BA 7 points - I’m optimistic he’s putting his slow start to 2008 behind him.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 7, 2008 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which further illustrates why this whole thing is just being silly. The Brewers would not give up their 24 year old, 50 HR hitting face of the franchise for anything less than first-degree murder.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 7, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys both think Fielder will have a long productive career? Seriously? With that body? Well, I suppose anything is possible, but the likelihood is so small that I certainly wouldn’t expect it. And yes, that was a bit of exaggeration – I’d trade Lowry for Fielder. I’d trade Denker, or Lewis. I wouldn’t trade Bowker, nor Schierholtz, nor Sosa, nor Alderson, nor Noonan, nor Angel for Fielder.
I’m not saying he’s a bad guy; he’s just the poster boy for Rapidly Declining Skills.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 7, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh, well OK then
THAT is something I can see. I don’t think the decline is going to happen anytime soon, but sure, I think any team that has him (including the Brewers) has to be concerned about his, well, physique. After all, we’re not talking about John Kruk hitting singles here. I’m assuming this is what behind his recent vegetarian ways.
You’re probably right regarding rapidly declining skills. I’m willing to bet, though, that the game of hot potato won’t start until he’s in his 30s.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 7, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which leads back to my point
he’s 24, his 30’s won’t start until the 2014 season.
by Hyatt on Jun 8, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers will very likely trade Fielder before LaPorta
1) LaPorta is cheap and will be so for some time
2) Fielder will bring back great talent
3) Even if LaPorta isn’t as good as Fielder, LaPorta + Fielder return >>>> Fielder + Fielder’s salary for years to come + return for LaPorta
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 6, 2008 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Prince Fielder
The only SF player in trade discussions for Prince Fielder that should give GM Sabean any pause would be Tim Lincecum.
by wilriv21 on Jun 7, 2008 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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