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giants draft history- from verducci's post today

"Colletti previously worked as an assistant general manager in San Francisco, where the Giants were the extremists when it came to devaluing the draft. From 1993 through 2000 the Giants took six pitchers with their No. 1 picks. Those pitchers threw a total of 22 games for San Francisco. The Giants regarded top picks as something of nuisance, using them as trading chips to acquire veteran players or even gladly forfeiting some picks themselves for the chance to sign some mid-level veteran free agent."

 

i know ive brought up the same thing before, but it feels like a kick in the gut when someone else reminds you.

 

heres to better scouting, better decisions, better coaching, and an angstrom of luck

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I briefly confused Verducci with Jeff Pearlman

And assumed that article was going to be about Jason Grilli kicking puppies.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on Jun 3, 2008 1:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

When did GM Sabean begin drafting for SF?

Can’t put the blame on all those drafts on Sabean. Plus SF was able to trade some prospects for MLers.

by wilriv21 on Jun 3, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's clear...

Verducci don’t like Livan Hernadez or Robb Nen, they aren’t not worthy of the prospects we gave up for them.

Frankly, the lack of players playing for us reflected more the fact that we had lousy picks during that period who didn’t play much in the major leagues, let along play for the Giants. I’ve not been impressed by Verducci’s columns…

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 3, 2008 2:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Me neither

That low 80’s fastball has little to no movement, and his secondary pitches are nothing to write home about.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jun 3, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused

I’m confused here. You reiterate what Verducci said and then say that you haven’t been impressed by his columns. I don’t even know the guy, so I have no feeling whatever on the matter, but if you aren’t impressed by him, why take the time to reiterate what he said?

by sharksrog on Jun 3, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

.

Whats our chances of getting Beckham?

by ejdacanay on Jun 3, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

wait a second...

He’s right about punting the draft picks. But only once did the Giants deliberately time a free agent signing to forfeit a pick (the infamous Michael Tucker episode). That the Giants “gladly forfeited” picks to sign free agents otherwise is conveniently ignoring that all teams do the same. You can question the wisdom of certain free agent signings - and oh boy, get in line, Tom - but it’s disingenuous to say the Giants are alone in this standard practice.

I also take issue with this: “the Giants regarded top picks as something of nuisance, using them as trading chips to acquire veteran players.” Often some very very good veteran players. It’s easy to make fun of Livan Hernandez now, but he pitched fairly well for SF, especially in 2000. And they got him for Grilli and Bump, both of whom have done close to nothing in their careers.

Again, some of these trades haven’t worked out. OK, fine. There’s an argument to be made against Sabean and the Giants’ draft/trade strategy, but Verducci is making it badly.

Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com

by leftymalo on Jun 3, 2008 2:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it’s such a nuisance to have trading chips you can use to get players you want.

All-Father Watch: 1.32 ERA, 5 saves, 0.95 WHIP, 26 Ks in 27 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on Jun 3, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as I know

The Giants still hold the dubious distinction of being the only team to purposely forfeit a pick to save money. Well, except maybe the Astros, they’ve been pretty damn cheap of late. Even doing so once is worthy of everlasting scorn.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jun 3, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m actually sure this happens to many cash strapped teams with a winning window, but they’re smart enough not to A) admit it and B) make it so brazen. I do believe there is some logic in that outlook, if you’re a team with a payroll limit and a closing window of opportunity.

by tyrannoman on Jun 4, 2008 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Verducci and whats-his-nuts there at SI.com have always seemed to have had an anti-Giants thing going on. I think that’s attributable to Bonds, they never liked him and made no bones about showing it. Whichever of those numbnuts used to do mailbags would dedicate an entire page to talking about how much they don’t like Bonds. It was amazing!

So I stopped reading SI.com.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jun 3, 2008 4:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree. They are agenda pushing slime balls. I won’t read SI for any reason

by allfrank on Jun 3, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There’s not much reading involved there.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 4, 2008 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever could you mean? It’s all about the articles.

by tyrannoman on Jun 4, 2008 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know, if you want porn there’s this thing called “the Internet”

Check it out sometime. It’s good.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on Jun 4, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking of going to the internet for my porn, but it’s been getting mixed reviews on Yelp.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jun 4, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but the girls in SI are pretty smokin hot...

hard to find that for free on the internet…

by boonitez on Jun 4, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way easier to find nipples and stuff, though.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jun 4, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the body paint section, and not only ‘cause it’s hot girls all nekkid. I just think it’s really cool. Plus, there are nekkid girls under that paint!

Viva Heidi Klum!

by tyrannoman on Jun 4, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not many are jonesing for Sabean's ouster more than I am.

But Sabean’s strategy of utilizing the farm system primarily for trade fodder worked pretty well for a while. But two things changed, in my opinion:

1) So-called “small market teams” began seeing sharply increased revenues, mainly due to a dramatic increase in TV money, but also coming from luxury tax (instituted in 2003) money. The main result was that the free agent market shrank considerably, both in size and quality, as even small market clubs now moved to sign their young stars to long-term deals before they reached their walk year.

2) As traded Giants prospects repeatedly failed to stick-much less produce-at the major league level, the league began to shy away from Giants prospects. Brian Sabean was forced to either give away much more in trade than he’d offered before, or not make trades at all.

My beef with Sabean is that he didn’t forsee any of this happening. It took him five years to wake up to the fact that the Giants had virtually no means of putting major league caliber position players on the field. This is just one example of Sabean’s backward thinking, intellectual laziness, and general indifference towards evaluating the way he does his job and considering what is the best way to put together a winning roster of talent.

But the point is, Sabean’s way (combined with several years of Barry Bonds) did work…for a while. He did make some spectacular trades and free agent signings, from when he took over as GM right through the end of the 2002 season. After 2002, though, MLB changed and Sabean didn’t.

Verducci, as is his wont, isn’t interested in any giving a complete, accurate picture where cheap shots, sweeping generalizations, exaggeration and obligatory Bonds bashing will suffice much better for his purposes.

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on Jun 3, 2008 6:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say he was alright post-2002 in most FA signings...

Alfonzo was obviously a bust, but Durham was a good signing in my eyes. I also thought the team got good value for Vizquel, Alou, and Matheny (before the unforeseeable injury).

Most of the complaints from signing older players about injuries lose sight that the three players who had injuries that ruined their tenures were not injury-prone pre-signing. Benitez had a lot of issues, but health was generally not one of them. Durham had never been on the DL before signing with the Giants. And Matheny’s nickname was ‘The Toughest Man Alive.’ The only older player whose injuries significantly hampered him was Alou, and his injury was one that would’ve put almost any player on the shelf (twisting his knee going into the wall in Philly, if I recall the right stadium).

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!

by BruteSentiment on Jun 3, 2008 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good post, tobias!

In particular, the part about Sabean not recognizing the paradigm shift underway in the last decade.

Tom Verducci and Rick Reilly are dead to me. I ignore SI completely.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 4, 2008 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To get more general

This teams philosophy, in-regards to minor league structure and organization, lacked behind basically every other organization in MLB for a time in the 1990’s because of severe underfunding. I sometimes wonder what road this organization would have gone down if not for the miracle run in ‘97 that kept them afloat until Mays Park became an actual reality. Obviously, this team now has a much more clear and concise draft and player development process. But it seems that to get this, the plan for the 25 and 40-man roster suffers from a dysfunctional and disjointed plan that is more “done on the go” than long-term planning. So to get one form of success, we are always sacrificing another. And that falls on Magowan and his “hands on” approach, which is rather schizophrenic when you get to the nuts and bolts of it.

it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Jun 3, 2008 7:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think this is true. I think there is and has been a long term plan. I also think the plan has evolved. Originally, the plan was to draft and develop pitchers, both for the MLB roster and for trade chips. Then, they began drafting and developing middle of the diamond, defensively proficient guys with speed. What they seem to have ignored is developing any players at the power positions. It seems to me they guessed wrong on the ease of trading pitching for power or signing for power on the FA market. It isn’t that they have wholly failed at developing prospects – they have developed/drafted 15 of the 25 man roster. My guess is that surpasses most other MLB teams. They are probably two above average players short from really competing, probably a 1b and 3b man. I think what Sabean failed to predict is the difficulty of finding players at those positions. God knows we here at McChrons are having a hard time IDing said players.

by allfrank on Jun 3, 2008 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is true

That the FA/Trade market for above-average position players seems to have dried up in the last few years.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Jun 4, 2008 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

The Giants seem to me like the Chairman Mao-era Chinese governments: constantly redefining the master Five Year Plan, but never getting anywhere as a result. What you see as an “evolving” plan I see as yet another knee-jerk reaction. More to the point, though, I don’t see much organizational cohesiveness. As Roger and others have pointed out here in the past, there used to be a “Oriole way” to do things, or a “Dodger way” to do things. More recently, there’s been a “Braves way” to do things. These organizations flourished, in part, because every was on the same page, top to bottom. Minor league coaches were instructors, and what they taught was spelled out explicitly by the GM and the Farm Director. I wish for that for the Giants. But I don’t see any evidence yet of it being in place.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 4, 2008 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

edit

....because everyONE was on the same page…

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 4, 2008 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Evaluating a team's draft / development

record by the number of home grown players on the 25 man is probably the wrong way to go. You should look at value provided instead.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jun 4, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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