minor lines, 6/29/08
AAA: Fresno defeated Las Vegas 8-3
Fresno: SS Ivan Ochoa: 3 for 5
Fresno: C Eliezer Alfonzo: 3 for 4, HR
Las Vegas: 2B Angel Chavez: 3 for 4, 2B
Fresno: RHP Brad Hennessey: 8.1 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 3 BB, 6 K--1 HR
Las Vegas: RHP Jon Meloan: 6.0 IP, 10 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 1 BB, 8 K--2 HR
With three hits each, Ochoa and Alfonzo paced the Grizzlies' fourteen-hit attack. Ochoa now has an eight-game hitting streak, with multiple hits in six of those games. Alfonzo, playing his second game with Fresno since rejoining the team, connected for his 4th PCL HR this year. The 26-year-old Chavez, the former Giant now in the Dodgers organization, also had three hits, raising his AVG to .277.
After allowing a couple runs in the first inning, Hennessey settled down (sound familiar?) and did not allow another run until the 9th inning. His longest start of the year, in which he threw 110 pitches (73 for strikes), lowered his ERA to 5.12. Meloan, who entered the year among the Dodgers top ten prospects and converted from a reliever to a starter, has seen his ERA rise as the season has progressed, now up to 4.77. His 8/1 K/BB line was atypically good for him, given that his K/BB ratio was below 1.50 entering the night.
AA: Connecticut defeated Binghamton 14-5
(exploding for nine runs in 3rd inning)
Connecticut: CF Antoan Richardson: 3 for 5, BB
Connecticut: RF Ben Copeland: 4 for 6
Connecticut: LF Eddy Martinez-Esteve: 4 for 6, 2B
Connecticut: C Adam Witter: 2 for 4, 2 BB
Binghamton: CF Fernando Martinez: 3 for 4, 2 2B, HBP, SO
Connecticut: RHP Adam Cowart: 5.1 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 K--1 HR, 1 HB
Connecticut: RHP Ronnie Ray: 3.2 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 2 K
Among the Defenders' twenty-one hits, Copeland and EME each had four hits, raising their respective AVGs to .249 and .297. Richardson and Witter also reached base four times. They both have OBPs above .330 despite having AVGs below .225. Martinez, the Mets' top prospect, has had three big games against the Defenders since coming off the DL, going 7 for 12 with 3 XBH, plus a BB and HBP.
Cowart evened his W-L record at 6-6, but his ERA rose a bit further to 4.25, and his BAA gained a few more points to .317. Despite his reputation as a ground ball pitcher, his GO/AO ratio was below 1.00 in six starts this month. In contrast to Cowart's 6/8 GO/FO line, Ray, who picked up his first save, had a 6/3 GO/FO line.
A+: San Jose defeated Modesto 4-3
San Jose: 2B Brock Bond: 2 for 5, 2B
San Jose: 3B Brad Boyer: 2 for 4, 2B
San Jose: SS Sharlon Schoop: 2 for 3, SH
San Jose: RHP Tim Alderson: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K
San Jose: RHP Danny Otero: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 1 K
The Giants offense was led by their three non-first-base infielders, who each had two hits, including both of the team's XBHs.
Alderson matched a season-high with 7.0 IP. He also got his H/IP back below 1.00 as he lowered his ERA to 3.13. Alderson entered the night with a 1.00 GO/AO ratio but had a 12/3 GO/FO line. Otero has allowed a much higher number of hits since his promotion to the Cal League, where hitters have hit .368 against him. He received his 2nd save only when Felmy threw out the runner at the plate on the final play of the game.
A-: Augusta lost to Hickory 6-4
(scoring all four runs in the 7th inning but then allowing three runs in the 8th inning)
Augusta: 1B Angel Villalona: 2 for 4
Augusta: 3B Andrew Davis: 3 for 4
Augusta: RHP Waldis Joaquin: 3.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 K
Villalona and Davis accounted for over half of the GreenJackets' nine hits, which were all singles. They improved their respective AVGs to .238 and .276.
Joaquin made his third start of the season, among 21 appearances. The walk was his first of the month. He presumably finished June with a 20/1 K/BB line, quite an improvement from his 23/17 K/BB line in April and May. He also had not allowed a hit in his last four appearances nor an earned run in his last five appearances.
ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Everett 8-6
(with ten of the game's fourteen runs scored in the 7th inning)
Salem-Keizer: LF Casey Bond: 2 for 3, 2 2B, BB, SO
Salem-Keizer: 1B Mike Loberg: 3 for 5, SB, CS, E
Salem-Keizer: C Trent Kline: 1 for 3, HR, BB
Salem-Keizer: LHP Ari Ronick: 2.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 BB, 3 K--1 HB
Salem-Keizer: RHP Eric Stolp: 3.0 IP, 1 H, 3 K
Salem-Keizer: RHP Edwin Quirarte: 2.0 IP, 2 H, 1 K
Bond and Loberg had the multiple-hit lines for the Volcanoes, raising their respective AVGs to .260 and .345; but it was Kline who provided the big hit with his first pro HR being a grand slam in the 7th inning after the first five Volcanoes hitters in the inning had reached base.
After three relief appearances, Ronick made his first pro start, although he pitched just three innings. He was relieved by Stolp, who is in his third season with the Volcanoes and faced just one over the minimum in three scoreless innings. Quirarte, the fifth Volcanoes reliever, pitched two scoreless innings, although he did allow one of three inherited runners to score, for his 3rd save.
R: Giants lost to Padres 9-3
Scottsdale: 1B C.J. Ziegler: 1 for 3, HR, BB
Scottsdale: 2B Aaron Hornostaj: 2 for 3, BB, SO, SB
Scottsdale: RHP Javier Hernandez: 2.1 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 2 K
The 25-year-old Hornostaj, whom the Giants drafted back in 2001, made his 2008 season debut, and was the only Giant in the lineup with multiple hits.. He played in just two games last year. Ziegler went deep for the 3rd time in his young pro career.
The 19-year-old Hernandez, who had a 2.63 ERA in 72.0 IP last summer in the DL, made his second start of the year. In both starts, he has failed to get out of the 3rd inning.
DSL: Giants had their typical Sunday off-day
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Comments
Please do not recommend this thread
It does not need to be done. it gets done every day. this thread is akin to the morning paper. it pushes threads out of the spotlight that could benefit from more time.
We all appreciate the time it takes to put these threads together. This has nothing to do with the quality of the information. They just do not need to be recommended.
I was considering making a thread about it, but thought it best to just put it here. If they keep getting recommended I probably will make a thread asking people to stop recommending these but that really seems a waste as it is only a couple of people who are doing it.
For the most part, people don’t recommend threads which is fine. The thing that is not fine is a thread like the East Bay Meet up. It is going to be pushed away really quickly because of the constant recommending of these repetitive MINOR LEAGUE threads.
If this gets recommended then the meet up will be one other thread away from being pushed out.
Again, These threads are up for long enough for most people to read them and there is no reason for there to ALWAYS be the past few days news just sitting there clogging up and taking spots from the actual threads that matter.
Perhaps if this was done weekly I could see it. I know I am not alone in this feeling and am imploring you three or four constant recommenders to just stop doing it.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 29, 2008 9:54 PM PDT reply actions
Y'know...
In the past, I’ve encouraged people to recommend certain threads, and they listen. Folks seem to like constructive messages more than negative ones. In your case especially, it seems like you would accomplish your goal a lot better by asking people to recommend the meetup thread, rather than asking them NOT to recommend one of the absolute most popular features here. Frankly, I love this “morning paper”.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
For the record, I'm recommending the meetup thread for you
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
People recommend these threads because they like them. What’s wrong with that? You could solve your problem by getting more people to recommend the fanposts you like, right?
by Dan from NM on Jun 29, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
it doesn't matter once a thread is recommended
Unless I am viewing things incorrectly, once a thread gets recommended it sits in that panel until it is pushed out by newer threads. By recommending, essentially, the same thread over and over you people who do it are taking away from the other threads that get recommended.
I understand recommending because a person likes the thread but this happens every single day. You people are like that guy who runs around the office asking everyone if they saw THAT AWESOME show or game last nite. But rather than doing it once a week you do it every single day.
These threads really don’t need to be recommended. It only detracts from the site.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 29, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Uncool
Minor Lines is without a doubt my favorite thread of the site aside from Grant’s uniquely witty posts. I revisit McCovey Chron in the (Singapore) afternoon every half hour to see if Steve (or Brute, or BVCE) has put it up. It fully deserves the recommendations it’s getting.
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jun 29, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I read a lot of fanposts and ignore a lot of fanposts, but I read minor lines without fail. I also like seeing them right at the top with the recommended fanposts.
Also, if there weren’t so many stupid fanposts borne of stream-of-consciousness and little thought – and let’s be frank, there are a lot of them – then the other posts wouldn’t be kicked down so quickly. Worse yet, many of the fanposts cover the same topic as recently created fanposts, and probably belong within a current thread rather than being posted separately.
Maybe we need a negative version of “recommend” that would bury these posts somewhere else. Still, I’m not going to recommend eliminating the ability to create fanposts, and one way of dealing with it is to change your account settings to increase the number of fanposts listed. That way they won’t disappear from the main page as quickly.
Now, off to recommend minor lines again…
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 29, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
completely agree
if steve had his own blog, i would go there just as much as i would continue to go here.. its nice having them both in the same spot and since people keep recommending them i know exactly where they are at. plus another recommended post will be up there for 5 days, i think thats enough
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
This.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 30, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
...I was waiting to see if you were gonna pop out of a closet somewhere going JUST KIDDING GUYS! and then we’d all have a good laugh, but I’m really disappointed to see that you’re serious about discouraging the recommendations of one of the most popular, relevant, and widely read features on our great blog. Give the people what they want. They want Angel Villalona, Edwin Quirarte, MadBum, Tim Alderson, and Pablito.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 30, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not just the original posts either
the conversations that develop in the comments frequently go on - and stay relevant and fascinating - for days. In fact, even though they stay up on the recommended logs for several days, I still end up wading through the past fan posts list to catch some of the final comments on some conversation I was interested in.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
Exactly. I’m a fiend for this stuff and I still catch things I never knew about the minors because of all the informed posters here sharing and comparing notes.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 30, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Steve S puts in a lot of work to keep us informed of what’s going on in the minors, and the discussions of this guy or that guy in the comments to these diaries are the amongst the most informative on the site.
A lot of the fanposts are pulled out of the ass op/ed pieces, little better than “Sabean sucks! WTF lulz!”. These take actual facts.
you can't block the Bocock
Ironically, (I think)
It seems like this post has been recommended even more than usual.
(It wasn’t me)
The first thing I wanted to do upon reading his response
Was recommend this fanpost. And I usually don’t recommend fan posts.
Only 891 games until the end of Zito's contract
+1
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
I am going to go create nine different profiles and recommend Minor Lines nine times a day!
I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.
Like many others have stated, this is the first thing I look for each morning. And once I read the recent minor lines, I look for new comments in the old ones.
If for some reason I wanted to go back and read “Cain sucks v4.5” from several days ago, it’s not hard to do. The minor lines generate quality discussion though, and deserve to be kept on the main page.
don't be jealous
create a good thread and people will recommend it and it will get the attention it deserves.
A lot of threads are garbage and repetitive, but this one is consistently one of the best and most popular. Minor Lines isn’t repetitive. Each one is new and unique and informative. If it sucked, people wouldn’t recommend it. It also isn’t just for the regulars, but for new people who visit this site to see what it’s about and become regulars.
This thread can and does appeal to many Giants fans across the world. Your meet-up post is limited geographically and temporally. Nothing wrong with that, but it has a limited audience and appeal. I also recommended your Meet-up post.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 30, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
grizzlies
More on the Grizzlies tonight: Schierholtz hit two-run triple in first to tie the game after Hennessey gave up a pair in the top half. Ishikawa had two more Ks (8 since promotion in 31 at bats).... but also drove in another run (8) and is hitting .323 in those 31 at bats. He looked to be having trouble covering the outside of the plate, and his two Ks were against the RH starter Meloan. Then he turns around and smashes a double to the fence in right center off a lefthander throwing 94. Hennessey at one point retired 10 in a row. He topped out at 91 sitting around 88-89 most of the time. Ochoa is on everything and so was Alfonzo. His HR easily cleared left-center fence after just missing an earlier home run to left, that was caught at the fence. McClain also hit a two-run homer.
Well thanks guys
That east bay thread is now gone. And yet we still have three minor lines threads clogging the bases. Just love that old news.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 29, 2008 10:58 PM PDT reply actions
That Edwin Quirarte kid's doin alright
and Villalona seems to be steppin it up out of his slump okay.
I always read the minor league threads, and I also check out the minor league results at milb.com long before the thread the posted, so I’m a big follower of the kids. I don’t get the recommended thing either. Can you just do something like recommend it for one day and then push it to the bottom?? They all tend to run into each other and you can hardly tell which one is new and which one is old. I read them everyday and only want to see or post on the latest one. What’s the point of commenting on the minor league stats from three days ago?? Of course that’s no offense intended to the people who post those threads, especially Steve, who does a great job. What winds up happening when I log on, is that I skip past the recommended posts and go straight to the regular fan posts, which kind of defeats the purpose of recommending them. It also hurts my ego when I start my own thread and it’s not placed in the recommended section. Who do I have to blow to get placed over there just once before I die??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
the latest one
is the one at the top of the list. They’re sorted chronologically, not by # of recommends.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
As one of the "constant recommenders"...
...I intend to keep recommending Minor Lines, because it’s well done and I like reading it, and clearly lots of other folks do as well.
Yes, it is a little like the morning paper. Oddly enough, I read today’s Mercury News even though I had read yesterday’s Mercury News. I didn’t find it repetitive.
There is a problem, at times, of worthwhile threads dropping out of sight too soon. Urging people to stop recommending a very popular feature of the site is not a good fix to that problem. I can think of several possible technical fixes that would deal with this in a more positive manner:
- a more time-sensitive recommendations system, where today’s recs are worth more than yesterday’s. Threads that are continuing to get activity, and recommendations, would stay up longer than ones that get read only on the first day they’re posted.
- much more simply, increase the number of fan posts in the recommended and/or recent lists. Bump the rec list from 5 to 8. I’m not sure why the recent list currently only has 7 entries, while other SBNation blogs show 10. Keeping this at a minimum of 10 or bumping it up to 12 or 15 would be nice. (On some blogs, you can configure the number of recent posts you want to see on the front page.)
- A watch list would be helpful for individual users to track threads, although it doesn’t help with overall visibility to bring new participants into a discussion. There have definitely been times when I’ve wanted an easy way to ‘bookmark’ specific threads.
All-Father Watch: 1.26 ERA, 7 saves, 1.01 WHIP, 36 Ks in 35 2/3 IP
I love these things, and especially appreciate them being in recommended posts so i can find it easier, as opposed to it being buried by OMG DOES MATT CAIN SUCK?! threads.
I would however like to see the inclusion of who gets RBIs in these games. It seems that a player only gets included in these lines if he has 2 or more hits. What if someone goes 1 for 4 with 3 RBIs? I’d like to see that too, because that’s production when it matters most.
I don't agree with that.
The number of RBI’s a prospect gets means almost nothing when you are evaluating his prospectyness.
by RougeGorrila on Jun 30, 2008 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
don’t you think it’s important to know who’s getting the hits when the runs are scored though? of course everyone loves HRs and OBP, but still, being able to get the big hits is an important factor. I also don’t think it would impede these posts at all either; all it would do is add to the information we receive.
No stat is truly irrelevant...
...but similarly, no stat is everything.
Can’t view anything in a vacuum.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jun 30, 2008 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry if my response seemed brusque, it certainly wasn’t intended to be. Yes, I’d say that it’s an important stat for a fan following a game or rooting for a team. But in terms of evaluating a prospect, RBI is pretty far down the ladder of relevant stats.Off the top of my head, I’d say the following stats are more valuable when evaluating a prospect (in no particular order): BA, OBP, SLG, SB/CS, LD%, XBH%, BB/K, BABIP. These metrics would allow you to compare two different prospects with some relative surety. (Maybe that’s what you mean about the vacuum Brute?) But when you look at RBI’s for a prospect, it tells you almost nothing. Say Clay Timpner spends his season at leadoff and collects 12 RBIs and Nate Schierholtz bats cleanup and knocks in 86. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing you already know. Brute is right in that no stat is truly irrelevant. But RBI’s are pretty close.
Now whether or not RBI’s should be included in Minor Lines, well that’s Steve’s domain.
LD%?
That’s one I’d put far below RBI. The determination of Line Drives is very, VERY arbitrary. Say what you will about RBI, BA and other stats, but it’s easy to tell what’s a hit and what’s an RBI and what’s not. But Line Drives depend on the mood of the guy helping out at the scorer’s desk, and sometimes someone other than him, if he’s taking a break or just taking a bite/drink and misses the hit.
Your point about lineup position is well taken, but if a guy like Schierholtz…or perhaps D’Alessio, as another, who is in a position to get RBIs but isn’t…that says a lot about whether or not the numbers we’re seeing are coming at the right times, or if they’re empty hits.
SB/CS are another one that’s situational, but also prospect specific. It matters a heck of a lot more for Timpner than, say, Villalona. I’d say the same about OBP, meaning more to players who don’t depend on power, but that’ll just open me up to a lot of detractors who think that OBP means more than anything else.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Jul 1, 2008 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Well Evan and North Side etc will explicate the stats much better than I can, but I must say I find it mind-boggling that anybody who watched the offensive bounce that Bonds OBP gave the Giants over the last decade coule make that comment, Brute.
And as for the arbitrary nature of LD%, to whatever degree that’s true it’s at least as true if not more so to say the same thing about BA. It’s not at all “easy to tell what’s a hit and what’s not.” I can’t remember the last time I attended a minor league ball game that I didn’t see at least one IMO very badly scored plays on the hit/error scale, not to mention the plethora of butchered routine fly balls that frequent minor league watchers enjoy. And as we recall from Bull Durham, one of those a week means the difference between .280 and .300. Given that present performance is less important for a prospect than future performance, I’d rather see a high LD% than a high BA when trying to chart a sucessful development course.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
in fairness, ld% is even less stable than BA
..though I think this reflects both greater underlying variability and an even more-inexact instrument.
by wcw on Jul 1, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
regarding ribbies
I guess this discussion goes to how much you or I value “clutchness”. But if the concern is how the batter is doing in pressure situations, why not just look at stats with RISP? Or Sac Flies?
by RougeGorrila on Jul 1, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions

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