So when do we get real and admit Cain might not be it?
by Sigualicious on Jun 27, 2008 1:05 PM PDT
Email
PrintI realize he's still the youngest pitcher on the staff but he does now have a fair amount of major league experience. It appears as if he's really plateued and in my very humble and very unprofessional opinion, I'm not entirely certain that he's going to get much better than he is right now. A lot of good starts but no real domination mixed in with a lot of very mediocre starts as well.
I'm thinking that maybe he doesn't have the right kind of mental toughness to dominate in this game. I have this feeling that he thinks way too much about what kind of pitch he's going to throw and in what count etc etc instead of just clearing his mind and throwing the ball. As I said before, I'm no expert on baseball but he just looks like he's always pitching tentaively and I'm not so sure he's going to break out of that.
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Also asking what the deal is with Eugenio Velez and the whereabouts of Wendell Fairley.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
YOU GUYS I DON’T WANT TO TRADE FOR JOE CREDE
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
dude
did you know nate can play third base?
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 27, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I say trade Lincecum for Rios!
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 27, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Jerome Williams was on the A’s?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Winn for Longoria?
maybe throw in like a Waldis Joaquin or something.
maybe osiris matos. i dunno.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 27, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 27, 2008 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Uhh… urp… umm…. that is the most disturbing thing I have ever seen. I mean, it’s just hideous and uncomfortable.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
OH MY GOD
again?
how many of these threads are there going to be?
what collective psychosis is this?
Matt Cain is GOOD, people.
But can we contend in 2008? And should we sign A-Rod? And I’ve got some thoughts on Barry Zito that I’d like to share. And should Barry Bonds come back?
LOLcat!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
FIRST!
109!
ESPN is twice as loud as Comcast Sports Net!
Some sexual joke involving Brian Bocock’s last name!
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
I thought 2008 was going to be a great year for McCoven posts, but the long season is starting to slip away from us…
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
Sorry..
I know I have been sorely missed but I didn’t think this much.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
I think McC is a second-half player. Once the All Star break comes and goes, he’ll heat up once again and return to his slugging ways.
June Swoon?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
EARTHQUAKE!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Jesusfuckingchristitsallicandojusttonotwriteacommentthatonlyhasprofanityinitandnotthegoodkindofprofanitythebadkindofprofanitythatyouwouldn’tevenhearifyouwenttounspeakableprofanityheavenshit.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
Cool… if you write one really long word it just disappears into the abyss. I feel this is an appropriate metaphor for how I feel about this.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I know that feeling.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Cain might not be it?
Oh great! I was running from the wrong person? Who is it then?
Where’s base?
Only 893 games until the end of Zito's contract
Patience Luke
Matt is younger than some of our pitchers in A ball, most of our pitchers in AA and probably all of our pitchers in AAA. Give the kid a break. He is #3 in the league in strikeouts. By the way – when was the last time the Giants had 3 of the top 4 stikeout pitchers? Probably never.
I think a more important topic might be whether Schierholtz can play 3rd. After all he played it in college.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
You make a good point. I always wondered why we never tried Nathan at SS when he was with the team, too. I mean, instead of trading him we could have just converted him. I’ve always contended that if the team had just done that, everybody would be happy now.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
We really should have traded Bonds and Morris for Adam Jones and Clement (or was it Balentin?) last year. Missed opportunity.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Which reminds me he's friggin shredding in AAA right now for the Marlins
He has 27 homers in 70 games.
Also, this thread definitely deserves as many recommendations as we can throw at it.
Also, nobody has given an update on what Villalona’s done today. Get on it, people.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Villalona Update?!?
Can I ask? How is he doing? I think he strikes out too much.
Angel Villalona: Treatin' all pitches like fastballs since '07.
by AngelintheInfield on Jun 27, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
He needs to learn to take more walks.
Wait… is that Schierholtz? Who are we talking about?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t take it personally, Sigualicious.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Cookyman—always looking out for the little guy. That’s an admirable trait.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jun 27, 2008 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Game 6 sucked
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jun 27, 2008 2:40 PM PDT reply actions
Game 6?
I’ve never heard of a Game 6 before. Quit making shit up.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Pogeymans? Here?
I just traded in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2. It was…bleah.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Toxic + LOTS of healing items = Win.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
God Lucien was the hardest one to beat. His stupid Bronzong just wouldn’t die.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yay! What was your team?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, let’s see if I can remember…
Empoleon
Luxray
Lucario
Roserade
Drifblim
Garchomp
Luxray and Drifblim did most of the dirty work. I think I ended up winning by beating the Milotic with just Empoleon left with about 20 HP left with one last hit. It was intense.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
That was almost my exact team. I had Empoleon, Luxray, Lucario, Carnivine (who was extremely clutch), Drifbilm, and Rapidash. For some reason Milotic never hit Carnivine with Ice Beam. It would have wiped me out easily, but no. Just Mirror Coat over and over while I kept hitting it with Power Whip.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you recced Drifblim to me, for which I am eternally grateful. Awesome Pokemon.
I just kept using Drill Peck and healing… I only had like four Hyper Potions left going into the last fight, so it was tense. And I was on an airplane sitting next to two older people I didn’t know so I couldn’t fistpump too much when I finally won.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
Ya Drifblim was the shiznit for me. And Empoleon was great the whole way. I love steel because of all the resistances it has, and I had been waiting for a water/steel type for three generations.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Steel is so useful, except for when you’re not thinking and you suddenly realize that you’ve brought them in against a Fire/Ground/Fighting type and you have a sudden “OHSHIT” moment before they get murdered. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I had my Empoleon learn Water sport when he was still a Prinplup so the fire thing was less of a problem.
Ground tho…yeah. :/
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 27, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
DFA CHULK
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
sharksrog is a fan of Tim Lincecum
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
And...
Sigalicious was never heard from again. We hardly knew ye.
Angel Villalona: Treatin' all pitches like fastballs since '07.
by AngelintheInfield on Jun 27, 2008 3:15 PM PDT reply actions
Is that a mall-ninja?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are Denker and Burris here if they’re just going to sit on the bench??!!!!!
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 27, 2008 3:37 PM PDT reply actions
I don't think the trade for this Pierzinsky fellow is going to work out.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
Lately I’ve been second-guessing Dusty’s decision to take Ortiz out of the game.
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
No one else
Salomon had actually pitched pretty well down the stretch, and the Giants had no one else rested.
No one ever seems to mention it, but when Salomon left, the Giants weren’t out of the game. That happened with Dave Burba in the game. Dave went on to a pretty decent career, but that wasn’t particularly his day.
It doesn’t matter how many times you bring that up. People will always blame Salomon Torres.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 29, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, and in case it wasn’t clear – I agree with you, sharksrog.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 29, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Felix Rodriguez throws too many fastballs.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 27, 2008 4:05 PM PDT reply actions
SITUATION TOMKO
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Get Rueter up.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
That's Whale's Vagina's problem now
Padres sign Tomko!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Armando Benitez is fat and blows saves.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Anybody hear about this rumor that the Gints are moving to San Francisco? It’s really got me frosted! Who’s ever heard of a San Francisco, anyway?
This is a ludicrous abuse of the new insterstate high-way system!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
I don’t see how that could ever get old.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Grant Appreciation?
Come on, I thought this thread was about things we do a lot!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
What is wrong with people! Cain is fine
If Cain plateaus at what he has done the past two seasons, and just does that for another 15 years, he will be considered among the best who have played over the past decade. That’s how good he has performed the past two years. So chill out, Cain is fine – he’s not up to his previous standards, but he’s fine.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 27, 2008 4:33 PM PDT reply actions
Is that supposed to be something howie says?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Hmm..
I don’t get it either…
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
Polite golf clap. Well done. It DOES sound like HowTheyScored.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 28, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow!
If Matt Cain performed another 15 years as he performed in 2006 and 2007, he would have a career ERA of 3.90, which I don’t think would lead to being considered among the best who have played over the past decade.
I think it would be impressive—just not among the best.
So what are you so afraid of?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Dammit, I made that and then no one commented on it! I’m ecstatic that someone actually remembered it.
So redirect your man-love.
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 27, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
But I’ve seen it many times on the boards here. I even quote it sometimes in real life even though the people I’m with have never seen the image and they still think it’s amusing, even without explanation.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder how many brilliant things I’ve done are recognized as brilliant without their brilliance ever expressly confirmed to me. Probably, like, 50,000.
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 27, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Somewhere in that 1 – 50,000 range, I’d imagine.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2008 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I was having problems finding out info about the comparitive swing-through rates of Tim Lincecum and Matt, but I stumbled across the following info from Xanthan over at Bay City Ball:
The Giants’ top rates of swing-throughs per pitch last season were:
Tim Lincecum change-up 23.03%
Tim Lincecum curve ball 17.03%
Barry Zito change up 13.60%
Matt Cain change up 13.50%
Noah Lowry change up 13.40%
So we can see that Tim was by far the more dominant of the two last season, having one pitch that generated about three-quarters as many swing-throughs as Matt’s best pitch and another that generated about a third more.
And we can see that when Mike Krukow continues to say that Tim developed his change up this past winter, he is ignoring the facts. By the way, I LOVE Mike. Very fine announcer with both insight and a great sense of humor. But sometimes he is just flat-out wrong.
The Giants have great announcers overall, but two who have grated on me were Joe Angel (the second time around) and Tim McCarver. Joe was just trying too hard, and I really felt sorry for the guy, who himself soon became an adios pelota. And I was embarassed for Tim, who was a haughty as he was unprepared.
But overall, are we blessed with our announcers, or WHAT?
I feel like you’ve made this exact post before.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
You are indeed right, JPonry!
I HAVE made that post before, and I have no idea how it happened to get reposted here. I’m not even sure if at 4:54 I was at The McCovey Chronicles, although I’m guessing that was about the time I migrated here. Is is possible the post somehow reappeared as I was accessing the site? I’m completely baffled on this one.
When I saw the numbers in the post, I began to read it. Then I saw my name at the bottom, skipped back to reading some more since I couldn’t believe it was truly mine, then realized I had entered The
Twilight Zone.
Is that you, Rod?
Because that's the only place it fits.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on Jun 28, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt's first start
I realized Matt Cain might not be a true #1 starter when he had a hard time generating swing-throughs in what was otherwise a very fine first start back in late August, 2005 (before we even knew who Tim Lincecum WAS!).
I posted on another Giants’ board that he might be only a #2 instead of a #1, given the seeming lack of swing-through stuff, and I thought I would be KILLED.
Now, of course, that evaluation is looking better. Personally I’m expecting a career ERA below 4.00 from Matt, which is indeed in #2 starter territory. But I’m not expecting closer to 3.50, which would be somewhere around the #1 starter limit IMO.
The one thing I WILL say about Matt is that when he’s good, he’s REALLY good. It’s just that with a 60% quality start rate over his career, he’s been quite inconsistent. I do expect a very good start from him next time out and think he is likely to continue to pitch well for a while.
As another poster mentioned, Matt has been mostly a second-half pitcher. We’re about to enter the season’s second half. If Matt can continue to pitch well the rest of the way, we will have a much better feeling about him at season’s end.
And that just might be the time to trade him, if the Giants could get anything approaching a Dan Haren type of deal.
Matt is a tough cookie to evaluate. The last two months of last season he posted a 2.97 ERA and an exceptional 1.80 BB/9 rate. If that didn’t look like a guy who had turned the corner, I’m not quite sure what such a guy would look like.
And yet even with the 2008 season rapidly approaching its halfway point, we’re still worried about Matt. I’m actually probably less worried about Matt over the rest of this season than are most.
But if he finishes 2008 strong, will that be a sign he has - still at age 23 - turned the corner? Or would it be the mirage his fine finish to 2007 now appears to be?
Dance!
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jun 27, 2008 5:24 PM PDT reply actions
So are you saying that this thread is over and the Giants won?
Only 893 games until the end of Zito's contract
This is idiotic
I’d bet that those who think Cain is an issue also believe we’re “one proven veteran” from winning. Sigh.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Anyone know what Lowry's trade value is about now??
It may be a good idea to trade him while his value is high and before he gets injured.
I'm an ESPN Insider!
A year ago
A year ago I was saying that very thing—except for the part about getting injured.
You all forgot the most common comment of all....
Giant’s pitcher throw stikes.
I'm an ESPN Insider!
wait until the sky actually falls
then get worried about Cain
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 28, 2008 10:20 AM PDT reply actions
DFA the bum!!!!
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
Evan
The Rays got Even Longoria signed to a great contract right after calling him up to the bigs. IIRC they have him controlled for nine years at $47 million, with only $17 million guaranteed.
The Giants might have been able to work something out with Tim last spring or summer, but now I think it’s going to cost them PLENTY. Why, oh why didn’t they work out a long-term contract with him when he came up, as the Rays did with Longoria?
I thought I saw Tim say he didn’t want to sign a deal until after this year. I could be wrong though.
And since when is this a serious thread (waits for serious cat)?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.
Did somebody say this was a serious thread?! FINALLY, I can contribute here.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 29, 2008 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
The only thing I have read or heard on the subject did say that Tim would be open to discussing a long-term deal at the end of the season.
My point was that the Giants should have jumped all over the opportunity to guarantee him a chunk of money when he first came up. IMO that would have been the best time to get him as cheaply as possible. That is why well over a year ago I recommended locking him up for a decade.
It would have been a bold move replete with risk—but it sure as heck looks like a better idea than signing Barry Zito, a move I vehemently opposed.
Often about a year after I have thought of something on behalf of the Giants, they get around to doing it. Suffice it to say, though, that it IS their money and not mine.
What's this shit about leaving the Polo Grounds??? F#@king Stoneham. Asshat.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
This just in
Barry Bonds might have taken steroids!!!
Proud father of Eric Surcamp! I sure hope we sign him.
Don’t be crazy!!!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 28, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
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