No, Bochy doesnt prefer the vets over the rooks

by bacci40 on Jun 24, 2008 10:03 PM PDT

Because there is a method to his madness, or so he says in the chron interview.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/23/SPM111DN3L.DTL

When asked why he went with Castillo, Bochy offered some plausible explanations. The night before, Castillo started the eventual winning rally with an infield single and had an extra-base hit stolen by a poor umpiring call. On Friday and Saturday, Castillo made roughly 1,000 feet of outs on three opposite-field flyballs to the warning track.

"He's got power. He's an intriguing player," Bochy said. "He runs fairly well. I think he has the tools to be an everyday player. Now, that's up to him. I think he's improved his work ethic since he's been here. I think he sees this as a great opportunity."

Could Castillo be a long-term solution at third base?

"He has shown how talented he could be if he plays every day," Bochy said. "I'd like to see what he's done at the end of the year."

Please note that nowhere does bochy say that denker is being bothered by a sore knee, one of the reasons given by the guys in the booth during the series.

Talented?? Maybe if you take away his avg to less than avg fielding skills, his hate of taking a walk, and his problems hitting with men on base.

In other words, Bochy, and sabean for that matter, dont really care to use this time to evaluate the real kids on the roster. They are still looking for those wins...no matter how worthless they become.

I just cant see this guy being in the skippers position come next april.

I cant see sabean still being the gm either....but what do i know

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In other words, Bochy, and sabean for that matter, dont really care to use this time to evaluate the real kids on the roster. They are still looking for those wins…no matter how worthless they become.

they just DFA’d Chulk and replaced him with Romo…....

by slojoe on Jun 24, 2008 10:30 PM PDT 0 recs

whos talking pitchers??

most of our staff is young

im talking position players

bochy always likes young kids to throw….he can ruin more arms that way

look what he did to peavy….took that kid a year to return to form

by bacci40 on Jun 24, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

He didn't do anything to Peavy

Peavy messed his shoulder up but he was fine. And he pitched more innings last year than he did any other season. Is Bud Black ruining him? Bochey didn’t overwork him; pitchers just get hurt sometimes.

by boonitez on Jun 25, 2008 1:35 AM PDT up 0 recs

guess you forgot that last season peavy barely worked beyond the 7th

man, get your facts straight…when bochy was there, he frequently overworked the kid

bochy is evil

by bacci40 on Jun 25, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up 0 recs

eh, you're on to him....

by slojoe on Jun 25, 2008 2:29 AM PDT up 0 recs

What the fuck are you talking about? He threw more innings last year than any other year in his professional career. In fact, I remember an article from BP, when the Giants signed Bochy as manager, that said he’d be good for all their young arms as he did a good job of integrating all the young arms in SD and not overworking them. Your opinion flies in the face of all fact.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Jun 25, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

He never worked past the 7th because he tried to strikeout everyone he faced

that has a tendency to drive pitch counts way up. Ask Matt Cain. He recently said he stopped trying to strikeout so many hitters because it’s easier to make them pop out or ground out. Brad Penny said the same thing before the 07’ season and look at the year he had. You get your facts straight. Bochey didn’t mess Peavy up. Peavy has never been messed up. If he was actually really badly injured, he wouldn’t have only missed 4 starts. It would’ve been more like 30.

by boonitez on Jun 25, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

It isn't easier at all

OH NOES pitching to contact isn’t going to be good. The key is to try to strike them out, but stay on the fringes of the strike zone. Then guys will either K or swing at bad pitches to hit. If by “trying to strike guys out” you mean going 0-2 or 1-2 and then throwing the obligatory breaking ball in the dirt, and then the head-high FB, getting to 3-2, then your pitch count is going to go way up.

But trying to induce bad contact is a recipe for fail.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 25, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

ok, so his plan seems to be to ruin the young arms and

to prevent any young position players from making it….yeah, he must have Sabes in on it, too huh?....
how high does it go? i bet Magowan wouldnt go along, so they managed to get rid of him, eh?

thank god you found him out Bacci, the evil genius Boch almost got away with it

by slojoe on Jun 25, 2008 2:42 AM PDT up 0 recs

Don't really agree with you...

I just cant see this guy being in the skippers position come next april.
I cant see sabean still being the gm either….but what do i know

In my book, both Sabes and Boch will do just enough to keep their jobs, young player development be damned. If this means we finish the season as “buyers” and are within single digit games behind first place with a month to go, there’s no doubt that our beloved GM and ol’ Buckethead will consider the season a success and use that to talk their way out of being fired.

The mere fact that ol’ big head has already mentioned a possible Dave Roberts comeback is mind-boggling. Once he’s back, if Dave so much as does anything but pinch run for Bengie late in a game I say we take to the field and burn the whole eff’ing thing down.

Perhaps we can put Sabes and Super Melon on a stick for some BBQ while we’re at it! I hear that the the McCoven have more than a few aspiring cooks within their ranks, so long as we keep the boxed mac and cheese, processed mystery meat hot-dogs, and Spam, way, WAY far away from the proceedings.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 24, 2008 10:31 PM PDT 0 recs

totally agree

roberts should go directly to the bench and ort should be sent to fresno, where he wont be collecting splinters

i still believe, that if both sabean and pumkinhead are with the org next season, there may be an uprising from the season tik holders

by bacci40 on Jun 24, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

isn’t Orty on the DL with a broken finger? Or is that a ruse not to play the “young” guys? :)

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jun 25, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up 0 recs

Who?

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com and on it I make jokes about things.

by groug on Jun 25, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

The Notorious O.R.T.?

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 25, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Don’t see why Sabean needs to go….as for Bochy, who would you get to replace him?

by Hobbes2d on Jun 24, 2008 10:46 PM PDT 0 recs

Don’t see why Sabean needs to go

Are you his wife or something?!? Dude should of been escorted out of town before the All-Star game last year….instead he’s been given a contract extension and his own “Employee of the Month” parking spot.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 24, 2008 10:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

have you been paying attention since 02?

guess not

as for who could replace bochy…you must be kidding

by bacci40 on Jun 24, 2008 11:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

No he's not

Bochey’s not that bad of a manager. He’s stuck with a shit team and there’s not much he can do to fix it. He’s pretty highly regarded around the league as a good manager. He’s been great with our young pitchers. And Sabes isn’t that terrible of a GM either. True, he made the retarted decision to keep trying to win as long as we had Bonds, but look at how well the rebuilding process is going. We had jack shit in our farm system at the start of last year. Now it’s loaded with pitching and starting to come around with hitting. And newsflash: we made the playoffs in 03’ and barely missed in 04’. It’s just the last 3 years we’ve sucked. By next year we might not be bad anymore, which would be pretty crazy considering we only started rebuilding last year.

by boonitez on Jun 25, 2008 1:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

you drink way too much koolaid

the division sucked ass in 03, and was only slightly better in 04

and im sorry, but bonds was the only reason this team stayed competitive

but you keep sucking down what sabean is serving you

by bacci40 on Jun 25, 2008 2:17 AM PDT up 0 recs

forgot to mention....why did we have jack shit in the farm system?

you dont think sabean had something to do with that?

by bacci40 on Jun 25, 2008 2:21 AM PDT up 0 recs

We won 100 freaking games in 03' it wouldn't matter what division we were in

And we won 91 in 04’. That’s usually good enough to make it to the playoffs in any division. And you’re right. Bonds was the only reason the team was competitive. That’s why they built the fuckin team around him for the last decade and a half. And I know Sabean had a lot to do with the jack shit that was our farm system. That was because he wasn’t thinking about the future because he thought he could bring home a series then. But ever since he came to terms with not being able to compete, our farm system has rebuilt extremely quickly. We were thinking we’d be competitive at 10’ at the earliest, most likely 11’, but we could be good as soon as next year. That’s pretty impressive for a 2 year rebuild.

by boonitez on Jun 25, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

agree with that

i realize some people want to hate on Sabean for everything but you have to be fair and give
him some credit for the good years….and despite what some on here want to believe, if the Giants canned him, there would be at least 5-6 teams interested in him…

wish he wouldnt give away some of those draft picks like J. Williams though….maybe that changes with the new boss…

by slojoe on Jun 27, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

Jose Castillo is:

The same age as Fred Lewis and Dan Ortmeier.
A year younger than rookie Steve Holm.
3 years younger than Aaron Rowand.
6 years younger than Bengie Molina.
7 years younger than Randy Winn.
9 years younger than Aurilia and Durham.
14 years younger than Vizquel.

I’m all for giving the kids a chance, but Castillo is closer in age to any of the kids than he is to most of the vets.

All-Father Watch: 1.05 ERA, 7 saves, 0.87 WHIP, 34 Ks in 34 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on Jun 25, 2008 12:05 AM PDT 0 recs

The problem with that logic is that Castillo should have never been more than an emergency option. Seriously, in anyone’s eyes (other than Sabean and Bochy of course) is this guy someone you can see for more than a year or so with this club?!?

The fact that we had to run out and grab him off the trash heap, only after Frandsen got hurt in Spring Training should tell you all you need to know about the guy.

He’s a stop gap, nothing more. Sadly, on a team full of stop gaps (Roberts, Richy, Chulk, etc….) he’s been gifted the everyday 3rd baseman job.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 25, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up 0 recs

Dude Castillo SUCKED last year. He got DFAed. TWICE.

But he doesn’t look like a DFA this year IMO. Especially with the top prospects at 3b in the Giants system. I peg him for a compete-for-a-spot in ST with Fransden, Denker, the Great Leono, and Velez. Burriss is a seperate issue since he can actually field SS. I bet he’s on the Giants 25 next year. If not he’ll probably be on some teams 25.

Still, as Castillo’s adoptive dad, Denker and Burriss should sit less and play more. Playing time should be subtracted from Richie, Vizquel, and Castillo. Let Aurillia bench ride, Vizquel “rest” more, and Castillo get some regular days off.

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jun 25, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up 0 recs

sorry for the edit/reply to self. Add Downs to the list for compete-for-a-spot next year.

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on Jun 25, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up 0 recs

Thank you!

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 25, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up 0 recs

Say what?!?

I can’t tell if you’re proving my point for me here or not.

There’s no way that a guy like Castillo should be in any of our plans beyond the immediate future. You don’t find an everyday third basemen from the discard pile mid-way through spring training…unless you’re trying to play for the Giants, that is.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 25, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

If Leone wasn’t going to get a chance this year, he is NEVER getting a chance. He is now part of the career AAA Scott McClain club.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 25, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

+1

Seriously, in anyone’s eyes (other than Sabean and Bochy of course) is this guy someone you can see for more than a year or so with this club?!?

At this point only has a utility infielder. Maybe as the roving replacement level for the farm kicks to beat out. That’s the only valid way I can see his Giants career being longer then a year and some small change. And I am not holding my breathe just envisioning the only scenario were he is here say next July. As long as the front office just goes year to year with his contract I can grind my teeth and get through it.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on Jun 25, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up 0 recs

i dont think the facts have anything to do with this, E.M.

there’s some kind of axe to grind….besides that Castillo is blocking our blue-chip 3B prospects, lol

by slojoe on Jun 25, 2008 2:52 AM PDT up 0 recs

Castillo is basically in his prime

he turned 27 in March and his having his best season ever, with an OPS+ of 93. Yes, that’s still below average. He’s done a better job of walking this year and has an OBP of .316, which would also be a career best. He’s also made 9 errors at 3b.

This guy couldn’t cut it on the Pirates and Marlins. He’s just filler and this is as good as its gonna get. I could stand to see him play a bit less right now.

When the Giants are good again, he won’t be on the team.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 25, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up 0 recs

this

the correct response

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Jun 25, 2008 8:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

and he definitely should NOT be hitting 2nd.

if he plays, he should be hitting 7 or 8th depending on whether or not there’s a DH for interleague games. That way he’ll get fewer ABs and kill less rallies.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 25, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up 0 recs

You should say similar things before every game where he will be batting 2nd.

by paboperfecto on Jun 26, 2008 6:16 AM PDT up 0 recs

He probably won't...

...and most likely, neither will Ortmeier, Velez, Denker, Holm, or Bowker.

But there’s a difference between unlikely to be on the next good Giants team (all those guys) and guaranteed not to be on the next good Giants team (Durham, Aurilia, Vizquel, Roberts).

To say (as PacBellBoozer does) that he shouldn’t be in our plans just because he was a scrapheap signing ignores the fact that occasionally, scrapheap signings pay off (Carlos Pena, anyone?). Not that often, no. But for that matter, a 21st round draft pick like Denker doesn’t get to the majors all that often, either.

I agree they should have had a better backup plan going into the season. But once you’ve got the guy on your team, it makes sense to evaluate his actual play, not whether he was a waiver pickup or a former 21st rounder you got in trade for a washed-up Mark Sweeney or whatever.

All-Father Watch: 1.05 ERA, 7 saves, 0.87 WHIP, 34 Ks in 34 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on Jun 25, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

If Carlos Pena was a scrap heap, Jose Castillo is a compost pile.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Jun 25, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

At least he’s green!

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jun 25, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

I agree about his average sucking and his walk rates being horrible...

but his defense is pretty damn good. And it’s not like we’re blocking anyone at 3rd so why not play him. He’s still in his 20’s he could by some off chance step up his production.

by boonitez on Jun 25, 2008 1:11 AM PDT 0 recs

His defense isn’t good.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jun 25, 2008 1:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

he’s improved from the beginning of the year where he was dead last, but he’s still near the bottom in RZR for third basemen.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 25, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up 0 recs

If by “pretty damn good” you mean “oh no what is he doing now THROW THE FREAKING BALL ALREADY”, then yes.

Everybody Loves Durham
comics | cartoons | Nattowear

by Natto on Jun 25, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

it’s gotten better, but yes.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Jun 25, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

Everything makes sense in your own head.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 25, 2008 8:31 AM PDT 0 recs

I wish it did in mine...

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Jun 25, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up 0 recs

Who was the last manager that you did like Bacci?

http://minorgiants.wordpress.com/
Where the relative merits of Joe Paterson and Daniel Otero are hashed out over knife fights and tea.

by RougeGorrila on Jun 25, 2008 10:08 AM PDT 0 recs

roger craig

need i say more?

by bacci40 on Jun 25, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up 0 recs

Sure.

http://minorgiants.wordpress.com/
Where the relative merits of Joe Paterson and Daniel Otero are hashed out over knife fights and tea.

by RougeGorrila on Jun 25, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up 0 recs

To be fair, Roger Craig was an arm-shredder as well. That wasn’t exactly an exclusive club back when Roger was managing, though. Also, he was bizarrely fond of sending the wrong guys to steal and of bunting.

Look, no one is going to be completely happy with any manager we get. The only thing we can hope for is that the guy isn’t completely overmatched, doesn’t destroy young arms, and preferably, not asleep by the 4th inning in the dugout.

I want Jim Leyland. I love Jim Leyland.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 25, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

no, i think you said it all right there

by slojoe on Jun 27, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

this thread is bizarre - i thought some of you guys might have been hitting the sauce

last night, seems like you really believe what you’re posting though….

by slojoe on Jun 25, 2008 12:24 PM PDT 0 recs

Of course we believe what we’re posting.

Just because our opinions differ from yours, that doesn’t make any of them less valid.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 25, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

To be precise...

...nineteen of us believe what we’re posting. The other twelve don’t.

Determining who falls in which group is left as an excercise.

All-Father Watch: 1.05 ERA, 7 saves, 0.87 WHIP, 34 Ks in 34 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on Jun 25, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

no, i never said your opinions were invalid

just cant believe the vitriol…

by slojoe on Jun 27, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

Tell me again what we're arguing about?

If it’s about Castillo, I think he should be given an opportunity to compete for a roster spot next Spring. I would certainly take into account his rally-killing tendencies. I would prefer, however, that Matt Downs be given every opportunity to be our 3B next year, and Frandsen our 2B (assuming Kevin recovers completely). I’m pulling for Burriss at SS next year.

As for Bochy and Sabean….well, Sabean should have been fired after last season. He clearly has some incriminating photos of Sue Burns somewhere. Bochy I go back and forth about. He’s kinda like the Castillo of managers – he doesn’t impress me, but I’ve seen worse and don’t ever want to go back to that.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Jun 25, 2008 1:25 PM PDT 0 recs