St. Louis Cardinals: Trading Partner?
by Osama91w9 on Jun 15, 2008 5:38 PM PDT
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PrintI just saw that the Cardinal's catcher Yadier Molina was taken off the field on a stretcher after a collision at homeplate. There's no word on how long he will be out, but hes being kept in a hospital overnight and the initial diagnosis appears to be whiplash. I have no clue how long he could be out, but their back up is Jason Lerue, who has not hit .200 since 2005.
The Cardinals are a serious contender this year, and despite having the 2nd best record in the national league, are 2nd place in the NL Central. If Yadier is out for an extended period of time, the Cardinals will likely be looking to trade for a catcher.
Enter Bengie Molina
The Giants are expected to be sellers at the trading deadline, and Molina definitely has the most value of anyone we should be trading (not lincecum/cain).
Some prospects in the Cardinals system that they might be willing to part with:
The Cardinals also are likely to upgrade their situation at 2nd base. They are currently platooning Aaron Miles and Adam Kennedy, who have .300 and .319 slugging percentages respectively. They might be willing to take a risk on Durham if the Giants eat some of his salary.
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They have Yadier Molina and they’re going to trade for Bengie, who is signed through 2009?? Teams don’t just jump on the phone and trade for guys making lots of money whenever an injury occurs. If anything, they’ll pick up a cheap catcher on the waiver wire. An injury to Yadier Molina is not going to be anything that makes them think they have to do something drastic. If they didn’t run out and get an expensive first baseman when Albert Pujols got hurt, they’re not going to do anything now.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
More likely options
Michael Barrett and Paul Loduca will be the catchers most sought after by a contender in the event of injury. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Molina is as close to untouchable as anyone in a Giants uniform. His value is too great to a team with so much young pitching.
Durham
Ray makes the most sense for the Cardinals. They could use some production out of that spot and Ray is the perfect rent a player. It has been suggested that a Ray for Anthony Reyes could be possible. I believe a Durham + Chulk +Cash for Reyes and PTBNL could work. I know Reyes isn’t a position player, but he has a lot of potential and would probably be the name the cardinals would be pushing.
Todd Jennings: Next up on the Non-prospect Backup Catcher Train. Next Stop: The Pine at AT&T Park, following a brief detour by the DL
I want Durham to retire a Giant. One of my favorite Giants this decade. We probably won’t even get someone good for him.
I love Ray
I love Ray Durham, but I am truly hoping the Giants can rid themselves of his salary (not that he isn’t at least close to being worth it) and get a prospect or two for him.
I definitely do NOT want Ray Durham retiring as a Giant. The Giants are not winning this year and he’s just taking atbats away from a younger player. I know that Sabean and Bochy are playing him in the hopes that some team offers up something, but he’s just wasting our time. If you love Ray Ray so much, you should hope he gets DFA’d tomorrow and can hook up with a contender. The Giants should have Velez up here, and both Velez and Denker should be playing everyday at second base to see if either one of them can compete with Kevin Frandsen for the job next year. The Giants’ are going to drag this out, and there’s not going to be enough season left for them to look at these younger players.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
+1
The fact is, the number of contending teams who need a second baseman at this point is surprisingly small. Teams that could be said to need a 2B are St. Louis, Oakland, the Chicago White Sox and the Cleveland Indians. Oakland won’t try to trade for someone, it’s not their style. Alexei Ramirez finally started hitting for the White Sox, so they’re out. THe Indians may not be buyers given their record, the injury to Victor Martinez, and the dilemma of CC Sabathia. The only team left is St. Louis. If a deal can’t get done here, the only option that makes sense for the organizations future is to DFA durham.
Todd Jennings: Next up on the Non-prospect Backup Catcher Train. Next Stop: The Pine at AT&T Park, following a brief detour by the DL
by Speedforthewin on Jun 16, 2008 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
A's traded for Durham before
So yes, it has been their style and pretty much in spades, Beane has an impressive history of trading mid-season to bolster his team’s chances of winning.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 16, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with most of what you say. However, I don;t agree with your point about Velez. He has no business being on a major league roster right now. He needs to work out his multitude of deficiencies at the minor league level. The Giants should be playing Denker right now to get a prolinged look at him. If they’re not going to play him, they should send him down, as it’s not doing his development any favors while he is rotting on the ML bench. Trade or DFA Durham and get Denker in the lineup.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Velez should be at AA working on his defense.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
His hitting and base running issues were what he needed to work on. He’s doing fine with the hitting (.350ish IIRC) but he’s been CS 5 times since he was sent down and that’s just not acceptable. I don’t care if you have the speed to steal 50 bases if you get caught 30 times..
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Jun 16, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
But his offense was really really really really bad.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 16, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay
But besides hitting, defense, and baserunning what’s wrong with him?
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
Not a damn thing
Aside from those things, he’s damn near perfect.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
Bad defense, bad baserunning, bad offense?
What’s not to like? Just remember that every time someone says OMG DURHAMMY IS TEH SUXOR TRADE HIM AND PLAY VELEZ!!!!11elf
Sometimes, you shouldn’t be playing the guys in the minors, especially when Velez is that guy. Seriously – I have no faith in Schierholtz, but Schierholtz is Velez times a thousand.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2008 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Even assuming the Cards were interested in Bengie,
which, as the above posts point out, is somewhat dubious, St. Louis really doesn’t have that much to trade. Their farm system is quite weak on the whole, meaning they’re going to cling to the prospects they do have all the more tightly.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jun 15, 2008 10:33 PM PDT reply actions
I have to wonder about Duncan as a possible return.
If shifted back to first , his original position, his glove should not be as bad. Yes he has some terrible numbers vs. LHP but he also has some pop. Duncan was in AAA before Pujol’s got hurt so they don’t seem to view him a "core" player. Assuming Pujol’s is not out for an extended time what do they plan to do with Duncan once ALbert returns? Age 27 almost 1.14 years of MLB time ( per Cots) but flawed MLB game would he be interesting enough?
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on Jun 17, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Dunkin
Doing things is what he likes to do…yes!
He’s slightly more productive now than previous because…
He’s slightly more efficient than I previously was…
(That song was written by They Might Be Giants, so he’s a natural fit!)
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
It's not my money
But I’d be disappointed if the Giants had to pay a chunk of Durham’s salary if they deal him. If that’s the case, just keep and have him play out the season. As we’ve discussed before, it’s not like he’s blocking some A prospect at 2B.
Unless trading brings back a prospect, I’d be against trading him for the sake of trading him.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
On a related note...
Schulman reported in the SF Chron this morning that a Cubs’ scout was at yesterday’s game and they’re presumable looking for someone to replace Soriano. Speculation centered around Winn. Anyone got ideas on a good Cubs/Giants trade?
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
Any chance the Cubs are open to trading Josh Vitters? He’s the only interesting prospect in their system, at least so far as a fit for the Giants.
Wasn't he a first round pick last year?
If so, I doubt he will be available.
Jesse English: He is BAAAAAACCCCCKKKK!
yes he was
And so far he’s performed VERY poorly.
I meant to convey a little more sarcasm there. The Cubs are obviously not going to trade Vitters. He has performed very poorly though. The point I was trying to make is the Cubs don’t have a lot to offer the Giants in the way of prospects. They have a glut of upper-level outfielders, but so do the Giants. So forget Murton and Pie. I think the Giants will be concentrated corner guys. Someone mentions Micah Hofflauir below, which is along the right lines, albeit Hoffpauir himself is 28 years old and hasn’t exactly excelled at the upper levels of the minors. So the only thing the Cubs realistically have to offer is a package of relief pitchers. RHPs Jose Ascanio and Jose Ceda intigue me. I think Winn is worth more than that though.
Murton
would be nice, but I doubt they’d trade him. Pie is terrible, I wouldn’t want him. He’s worse than Corey Patterson was. Not a big fan of the Cubs pitchers either, at least the ones they’d likely be willing to trade us. It would be awesome if the A’s would come calling for Winn, we could get some of their young pitching for him.
I have always liked Murton too. However, we already have Schierholtz in waiting, and some pretty potent bats behind him in Conneticut and San Jose. I like Oakland as a possible destination, though I would consider an Aurilia trade more likely with the A’s. Another destination for Winn could be Tampa. They have Chris Nowak, a pretty good third base prospect blocked in AA. Also could probably get one of their promising secondary pitching prospects like Jacob McGee in a package deal.
uhh
Jake McGee is not a secondary pitching prospect. He’s one of the premiere pitching prospects in baseball. Nowak’s not really a prospect IMO, he’s already 25.
If we were to trade Winn back to Tampa, I would want Desmond Jennings. He’s 21, with very good tools. He projects as a future leadoff man, playing CF. He’s got great speed, and has shown some moderate power too, he walks as well. Seeing as TB has some considerable OF depth already, I think they might be willing to part ways with him.
My bad ...
I meant James Houser, not Jacob McGee. I tend to confuse lefties’ names. Used to do the same with Chuck Tiffany and Greg Miller when they were both with the Dodgers.
Nowak still has upside. He’s a more fundamentally sound version of Robb Quinlan. The reason I like him is for the Carney Lansford similarities. I think he is one of those guys that could surprisingly rejuvinate his career with a change of scenery, and I see him as a good fit for the Giants.
But can he play CF?
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Jun 16, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably good partner, good catch Goofus
The Cubs could really use an upgrade at CF and Winn would be a good upgrade, probably both offensively and defensively over Reed Johnson, so they could first have Winn replace Soriano, then he would move into CF after Soriano returns.
Not sure exactly, as most of their top prospects either the Cubs or the Giants would not want in the deal, I don’t think the Cub would value Winn that highly. VItters is out of the question, unless they do a Kazmir like the Mets did.
I would want SS Ronnie Cedeno to be the main piece the Giants would want to get, raw SS who has hit well in AAA but have struggled in majors, but he has the skills defensively that the Giants like, the main question has been his defense. He would be perfect as Vizquel’s replacement in 2009, perhaps earlier if Omar continues to suck. Slight chance they trade Theriot instead but he’s a favorite of Pinella and has performed at the major league level, unlike Cedeno, so I don’t think so, but Cedeno has more potential than Theriot.
Then the Giants probably get another player, with negatives or low ranking, perhaps SP Donald Veal, a high potential project, who scuffled last year at AA after doing well previously, but he’s probably too high a prospect to hope to get in the trade.
2B/OF Eric Patterson and OF Matt Murton would be other names I look for, I like Murton but the Cubs apparently don’t like him much, they may have given up on both of them plus have Pie and Colvin in the wings. I wouldn’t mind getting Tony Thomas but probably too high and too successful a prospect to hope to get him, particularly if we get Cedeno. I could go for RP Jose Ascanio too, mid-to-high 90’s fastball.
Dark horse candidate is Josh Lansford, Carney’s son, who is a 3B, plays great defense but oddly enough has problems with his batting.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 16, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Oops
Main question is Cedeno’s offense…
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 16, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
This would only happen if Winn waives his NTC to Central Division teams. Let’s hope he’d do that.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
People act as if the no-trade clause is rock-solid, but getting traded to the Cubs? Wrigley Field? Best record in baseball?
He’d do it. He isn’t going to have many more chances to win a ring.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Murton
seems like someone the Cubs might have interest in trading given that they keep leaving him in AAA and calling up other players (Patterson), and he has some power potential. I’d take him as a throw-in.
Murton has been buried, and part of the problem is that the Cubs don’t want to play him, but they won’t trade him unless they get enough back. For what? Murton doesn’t even get called up when someone gets hurt.
Guys the Cubs have raking in the minors but won’t promote for more than 2 weeks of sitting on the bench:
Matt Murton
Eric Patterson
Micah Hoffpauir
And really, I am beginning to think that Pie is never going to stick with the Cubs either.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
While we’re at it, we should also try to steal Rich Hill
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 16, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
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