Everybody's Ranking for the Weekend
by Grant on Jun 13, 2008 1:56 PM PDT
58 comments
Here’s the original opening sentence for today’s post:
I was tired enough to write it, but not tired enough to let the mangled syntax slip through without comment. That’s one ugly, ugly sentence. But danged if there isn’t a "sprinkle of giddy" regarding a sub-.500 team. The Giants are throwing money around in the Dominican Republic again, Keith Law says the Giants’ draft put the organization in the top five in baseball, and both Kevin Goldstein and Bryan Smith loved the Giants’ draft. Most of us entered the year hoping only for measurable progress toward the rebuilding effort. It seems we’re achieving something like it, not only with the past few drafts, but with the varying successes of Fred Lewis and John Bowker. The optimism is premature, but it just slides down the gullet, don’t it?
On that note, it’s been a while since I’ve put together a top prospects list on this site, mostly because I don’t know what I’m writing about in most cases. If you want to read a list that carries some weight, make sure and review Steve’s top 40 list from a week ago. I’m just doing mine for fun and to start some discussion. And for the chicks, of course. You can’t expect any baseball blog groupies if you don’t have a current top-20 list ready at all times. C’mon, man.
This is probably the exact wrong time to do such a list, as hardly any of the Giants’ draft crop has signed, but I’ll assume that the Giants sign their first five picks. Based on recent history, that doesn’t seem far-fetched at all.
- Buster Posey – This should get the debate started. A Gold-Glove catcher with above-average pop and on-base skills is insanely valuable. There’s no guarantee that he’ll come close to that ceiling, of course, but when you combine the best-case scenario with his likelihood of contributing in any fashion, he instantly becomes the top prospect.
- Angel Villalona – He’s limited to first base, and it isn’t as if his .293 OBP is setting the world on fire, but he’s still a teenager holding his own in A-ball.
- Madison Bumgarner – I was more excited about Tim Alderson because of Alderson’s control, but Bumgarner has only walked 10 in 64.3 innings.
- Tim Alderson – It’s a little unfair to compare his stats with Bumgarner’s, as Alderson is already in High-A. Alderson’s K-rate is on an upward trend, and he’s keeping the ball down.
- Nick Noonan – After walking only once in his first 100 plate appearances, I was scared. He’s kept hitting, and his walk rate is no longer freakishly low.
- Nate Schierholtz – I’ll stop overrating him when he stops hitting. He’ll probably struggle once he’s given a starting job in the majors, but I think his power is underrated.
- Conor Gillaspie – Don’t know much about him other than what I’ve read online, but ranking him behind Schierholtz seems prudent for now.
- Pablo Sandoval – His gaudy numbers to this point are still a remnant of his silly-hot start, but he’s still raking at a young age and premium position. I’d rank him even higher if I thought he could still handle third base, but that’s just a pipe dream.
- Henry Sosa – He’s had a nice start to the season after coming back from an injury.
- John Bowker – In other organizations, a move to first base might have diminished his value, but not with the Giants. I’m hoping he hits enough to go into 2009 as the no-questions-asked starter.
- Ben Snyder
- Clayton Tanner
- Emmanuel Burriss
- Alex Hinshaw
- Wendell Fairley
- Roger Kieschnick
- Kevin Pucetas
- Travis Denker
- Eugenio Velez
- Sergio Romo
Comment starter: Pithy jabs at my amateur list are always welcome, as are a top ten, twenty, thirty, or forty of your one.
0 recs |
58 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Also FWIW
Jason Grey ranks Conor Gillaspie as 11th quickest to the majors among all 2008 draftees.
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?id=3430787
by sfmaynard on Jun 13, 2008 2:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Posted this on another site... most definitely wrong. Flame away!
(1) Posey
(2) Bumgarner
(3) Villalona
Posey on top because he has a good ceiling but is also by far the most likely to reach it. Plus he plays a highly valuable position. I put MadBum over Villalona based on value throughout the league, not value to the Giants. I know the Giants need power hitting more than they need another lefty starter, but MadBum isn’t too much older that Villalona (about 1 year) and is dominating in Augusta, while Villalona is still only showing flashes. Additionally, I think around the league his ceiling as a potential ace lefty is more valuable than a 1b power hitter. On the other hand, I could see the argument that an every day player who gives you 40 home runs a year is just about as valuable as players come. Honestly, I’m stoked to have all of these guys and they should probably be ranked as 1(a)-(c).
(4) Alderson
I don’t know about the order of the rest… I might go like this:
(5) Gillaspie (more likely to actually make the majors than Noonan at this point)
(6) Noonan
(7) Sosa (drops a bit because of injury)
(8) Schierholtz (I’m still high on him)
(9) Fairly
(10) Sandoval (coming back to earth and may profile better as a backup, but I still like him a lot)
(11) Kieschnick (good potential… I don’t really know where to put him now, but I like him so I’ll throw him here).
(12) Bowker (still think he profiles as a backup, but I like the flashes of what he has done during his call up)
(13) Tanner (not doing great this year, but I still like him considering his age and the fact that he has the potential to be a Noah Lowry who makes people hit ground balls)
(14) Burriss (I have doubts about his bat, but I love his speed)
(15) Velez
(16) Crawford (who knows?)
(17) Joaquin (hasn’t done great this year, but has the mid to high 90’s fastball to be a very good reliever)
(18) English (probably too high, but he has pitched very well and I’m pulling for the guy to make it all the way back)
(19) Ishikawa (hitting very well in the dead ball AA league… I still like his potential too; he’s still only 24, although he feels like he’s been around forever)
(20) Snyder (well, maybe he does make it. He’s old for A+, but you have to respect those stats and the fact that this is his second straight spectacular year)
I’m not a prospect expert, so I’d love to hear what other people have to say about this. Am I missing anyone? Perhaps Culberson and Pucetas? Culberson has hit horribly though, and Pucetas is even older than Snyder with less exciting stuff.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jun 13, 2008 2:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
oh yea... Hinshaw should have been on there too, but I forgot him because he's in the majors
which doesn’t make any sense because Bowker and Burriss are on there. I told you I’d be wrong!
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jun 13, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope all the ladies can appreciate how I shot from the hip on this one...
right or wrong, I am the picture of top 20 list studliness.
I really need to stop responding to myself.
Yes, you do.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jun 13, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for the top three
I don’t see how MadBum isn’t ranked ahead of AnVil on most lists. Yes, Angel is a little younger. Yes, we are really short on hitting and pretty set with young pitching. But you look at Bumgarner’s numbers so far this season and damn if it doesn’t look like the Giants might have another young ace on their hands. Villalona on the other hand is still mostly loved based on his potential at this point, whereas MadBum is starting to live up to his own potential.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jun 13, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got the feeling that this ranking is heavily weighted on potential. If Villalona has a Pujolsesque upside, it’s hard to imagine any pitcher short of Lincecum being seen as having a higher upside.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No “Maday Day”? For shame, people…for shame.
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Jun 13, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Upside, schmupside
Not really. I would agree that AnVil has a higher ceiling than Mad Bum. But I think Mad Bum’s chances or reaching or approaching his ceiling are greater than AnVil’s. That is why I rank him higher.
The only worry I have about Mad Bum is that I think he mechanics could leave him vulnerable to injury. Hopefully I’m wrong, since it seems he might have the most potential of any Giants left-hander prospect during their time in San Francisco—maybe with the exception of Francisco Liriano.
But only maybe.
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me, it was the 60 ip. If he ends the season pitching this well, he’ll probably take over #2.
by Grant on Jun 13, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable
It is understandable that you are hesitant on Mad Bum due to his very small sample of innings, Grant. But he has perforrmed at a superstar level despite not having had any previous professional experience.
Madison is almost exactly a year older than Angel. That - as well as already being acclimated to America - is clearly an advantage. But Angel has yet to perform at a superstar level. This season he hasn’t even performed at a star level.
Mad Bum looks more than ready to move up to San Jose. I expect him to advance to at least AA next year, barring injury. I presume San Jose is where AnVill will play next season, but Villalona has yet to come close to dominating at Augusta, so one could conceivably think he might benefit from at least starting at Augusta again if he doesn’t dominate the rest of the season.
What worries me about AnVil is that his K/BB ratio in his two seasons is 99/24, or more than four to one. AnVil is hitting just .201 against right-handers this season, and while he can clearly go the other way with power, he looks to me to be quite vulnerable to the low, outside breaking pitch.
I have heard difficult things about AnVil’s attitude from what I considered to be a credible source (although not one close to the Giants).
I’m still really excited about AnVil. But the reality he might not be what we’re hoping he will be is beginning to set in.
I didn’t expect to be moving Mad Bum ahead of AnVil on my prospect list, but right now I don’t have ANY problem in doing so.
I will admit it is hard to be TOO harsh in one’s judgement of a guy who had he grown up in the US, might be looking forward to his senior year of high school. AnVil will be younger this time next year than Tim Lincecum was when Tim graduated high school.
Of course, that is because they wouldn’t let Tim INTO high school until he broke five feet! :)
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villalona vs. Cabrera: You may be surprised
Villalona is often compared to a young Miguel Cabrera, in terms of talent, body type, etc. So I just looked up Cabrera’s Minor League Stats, and you might be surprised that up to this point Villalona’s stats are, arguably, better than Cabrera’s. (Which, of course, is not a good way of predicting future success, but which might ease concern that Villalona is not absolutely dominating the low minors to this point.
Here are the stats:
Cabrera (GCL, Rookie League) 57 games, 2 HR .260 avg, 696 ops
(Kane City, A League) 110 games, 7 HR, .268 avg, .710 ops
Villalona (AZL Rookie League) 52 games, 5 HR, .285 avg., .794 ops
(Augusta, A League) 58 games, 8 HR, .234 avg., .704 ops
While Villalona’s average and ops are lower at A level than Cabrera’s so far, he still has half the season to go and it is reasonable to think that he can come close to Cabrera’s numbers there, and he already has more homers than Cabrera did in more than TWICE the number of games.
Let’s relax a bit about Villalona and not expect too much, too soon. In Cabrera’s third season of minor league ball he put it all together and burst onto the scene in the majors.
by Candlestickfan on Jun 16, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both
Both you and Grant have pretty good prospect lists IMO. Like you, I too have moved Posey to the top of my list and Mad Bum ahead of AnVil. All three guys have a ceiling of greatness, which could make for a lot of greatness for us Giants fans.
I’m hoping Buster wins the Golden Spikes Award as Tim Lincecum did two years ago. Has they ever been an all- Golden Spikes battery?
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posey #1?
Works for me. But if we’re including unsigned players, you should include the we’re-playing-by-the-rules nonsigning of Rafael Rodriguez. I don’t care if he’s not 16 yet, in this system he’s a top-twenty prospect. As I wrote on Steve’s thread, I mostly like his list, and generally don’t get exercised about ranking. I much prefer Sickels-style grading, anyhow, so let’s do that. Assuming the Giants sign their picks this year and RR in the Dominican…
Grade A:
Posey, Villalona, Bumgarner, in that order. That’s it.
Grade B:
Schierholtz, Alderson, Gillaspie, Noonan, R. Rodriguez, Sosa, Kieschnick, Tanner.
Grade C:
Everyone else. Including Bowker.
by wcw on Jun 13, 2008 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sickels-style
http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/11/16/161015/28
Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don’t intervene. Note that is a major “if” in some cases.Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.
Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don’t make it at all.
I am more optimistic about Villalona and Bumgarner than Sickels himself, who gave them B+ grades the last time around; I see them as A- guys. I am more pessimistic on Velez, whom he gave a B-, but I see as a C- guy all the way.
by wcw on Jun 13, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
..and in retrospect, Kieschnick is probably a 'C'
by wcw on Jun 13, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am more optimistic about Villalona and Bumgarner than Sickels himself
Me too, Sickles is 40. I’d hardly call him a prospect.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shhhh....
He spies on the fringe. Don’t give him any ideas.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Jun 13, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels is a Borg. He has a home, just his basement is a computerized alcove where he’s connected to every facet of the baseball world via connection to the brain.
And when the baseball season is over, he terrorizes Patrick Stuart.
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Jun 13, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels
John is extremely conservative on prospects who haven’t played above Class A.
Two winters ago I tried to get him to return Tim Lincecum to a straight A after John dropped Tim to A- due primarily to his high number of pitches in college. I attempted to get him to rate Tim ahead of the younger Phil Hughes and Homer Bailey, who were John’s two pitching prospects rated ahead of Tim.
I pointed out that both Phil and Homer had lost time to injury, while Tim hadn’t even had to ice his arm. I told him that I believed Tim’s usage of his entire body to take stress off his arm and the genes that allowed his dad to throw 88 mph in his 50’s made Tim a better-than-average injury avoidance risk.
Hughes and Bailey each missed time to injury last season. Phil has missed more time this year,while Homer has struggled to combine dominance with control—in the minors. Phil and Homer ARE younger than Tim, so they have time to catch up and even surpass Tim. But it is my guess that John now realizes I was right and would indeed rank Tim ahead of both Phil and Homer if he were ranking them now.
By the way, I don’t think Tim IS quite as good as he has appeared this season. While it wouldn’t be impossible for him to post a sub-2.00 ERA over a full season, I see him as more of a 2.50 – 3.25 guy over his career. I mean, a dozen years at that level and he likely would be a Hall of Famer.
By the way, VERY nice pitching by Matt Cain tonight. While I consider Matt to be a very solid pitcher, he actually has been frustratingly inconsistent over his career. Matt looks like he may put up a strong run now.
My question on Matt is, if he bounces back strongly, would you be willing to trade him for a basket of prospects as the A’s did with Danny Haren? It appears to me that there is a decent possibility that in the next two or three years the Giants will develop a surfeit of starting pitchers.
Barry Zito and Noah Lowry are untradable, and aside from the untradable Lincecum (Alex Rios? ALEX RIOS?), the only guy the Giants would seem to be able to get a multiplicity of prospects for would be Cain, with Sanchez another slightly lesser (tradewise) possibility.
So if you are Brian Sabean, what do you do (aside from thank God every night that the Giants re-signed you and gave you a chance to build your staff and provide you the money to continue to draft for the future)?
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain for prospects
depends entirely on the prospects. The next Jay Bruce? Yes, please. The next Carlos Gonzalez? Probably not.
by wcw on Jun 15, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grades
I like your grades here, WCW. I would probably rate Alderson the combination grade of A/B and maybe drop Kieschnick to B/C, since he apparently needs work on his swing mechanics. I would rate Bowker a B/C and would rank Ben Snyder that high, as well.
Oh, and I think you might have missed Pablo Sandoval. I would give Pablo at LEAST a B/C and probably wouldn’t hesitate to give him a straight B.
I don’t know who R. Rodriguez is.
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in retrospect I dropped Kieschnick to a C
..since I think he’s a binary option: either he learns to hit with a wood bat, and turns into a major-league starter, or he doesn’t, and drops out of baseball.
Bowker I see similarly. He clearly has potential, but his potential is all with the bat and his bat isn’t all there—yet. He could turn the corner, lay off breaking pitches out of the zone and turn into a legitimate corner OF, but he’smore likely not to. Denker I lump into the same might-be camp.
Rafael Rodriguez is the, per ESPN, the Giants next $2m-bonus Dominican signing. This time he’s a more-athletic RF than the all-bat A.-Vill., with a blue-sky upside of above-average play. And he’s 15yo, so Sickels probably gives him no more than a C.
I can’t take Alderson seriously as an A- candidate until he flashes better K rates. 20% is adequate for success, and his other performance is good enough I consider him likely to spend time in the majors, which is my minimum bar for a B grade. He doesn’t look like a star yet, though, which is my criterion for an A grade. Posey’s all-around goodness, Villalona’s preposterous power at age 17 and Bumgarner’s dominance make them look like real stars. No other prospects do, including Sandoval, who outside April has looked nice with the bat, but no more. Given his age, though, he’s the closest of all these names to moving up a letter grade for me.
by wcw on Jun 15, 2008 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree mostly
I just think Hinshaw should be a little higher and Sandoval a little lower. I have it as:
1. Posey (high ceiling, high potential of reaching it)
2. Villalona (because of his incredibly high ceiling)
3. MadBum (under Villalona because his fastball’s his only great pitch)
4. Alderson
5. Noonan
6. Sosa (he’s been excellent since he’s come back, and I don’t think his injury diminishes his value because he could’ve just messed something up in spring training; his arm didn’t give out or anything)
7. Bowker (I think his power potential is extremely underrated. I think he could make a serviceable 1B if he can learn to hit/see breaking pitches and cut down on his K’s)
8. Hinshaw
9. Schierholtz
10. Gillaspie
11. Sandoval
12. Snyder
13. Tanner
12. Burriss
15. Pucetas
16. Denker
17. Fairley
18. Romo
19. English
20. Velez
by boonitez on Jun 13, 2008 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is much closer to my list
I still don’t get the infatuation with Travis Denker; he wouldn’t make my Top 25. I agree completely on your Top 11, although I’m torn between Alderson and Bumgarner. I’d bump Tanner down 4-5 spots. Velez wouldn’t be on my Top 20 either. Oh heck, here’s my 12-20:
12. Romo
13. D’Alessio
14. Downs
15. Matos
16. Rohlinger
17. Burriss
18. Snyder
19. Tanner
20. Craig Clark (just to make things interesting)
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on Jun 13, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denker was a prospect once
He hit .310/.417/.556 in the Sallie League the year he turned 20. That’s real, honest-to-crikey hitting for a middle infielder with some very nice power. He got overpromoted the same year, though, and immediately stalled out at high A, a two-year stall that ended his status as a real prospect.
He is, nevertheless, still just 22, and as such he’s still at least a C-grade guy. Slotting him in the same range as Burriss, Pucetas, Romo and English - all interesting, all flawed - seems just about right to me.
by wcw on Jun 13, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Craig Clark’s got a great name for this organization, so he’s got that going for him…which is nice.
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by Takimoto on Jun 14, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another good list
I don’t have John Bowker quite as high as you, but I don’t have him much lower, either.
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Groupies
I’ll throw in a top multiple of ten list probably this weekend when I have some more time.
So who’s throwing underwear at Grant?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 13, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can I plead the fifth?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 13, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm… on second thought, just not saying anything might have done me better….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 13, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve incriminated yourself already.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 13, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily there’s no scientific way to prove that all that underwear belongs to me. It’s not like they’re crawling with my DNA or anything.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 13, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That line...
That just made my stomach turn.
Well played, good sir!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Jun 13, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me of a line I heard Don Nelson say on the old “Frank and Mike” morning show on KNBR:
“My doctor told me he needed a urine sample, blood sample and stool sample, so I just gave him a pair my underwear.”
I nearly drove off the road laughing.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time.
by Candlestickfan on Jun 16, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Grant had switched Denker and Velez, Mrs. Goofus would have let him have his way with her.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll bet you don’t know thing one about denking.
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadler? Can’t I just ride ‘er bareback?
2008 Giants: Scrappy! Scrappy! Joy! Joy!
by Goofus on Jun 13, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tanner? Maybe she’d prefer a light spanking.
by Grant on Jun 13, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My top ten list doesn’t include Schierholtz, Bowker, or Burriss, because in coming up with it I was looking ahead to next season and assumed they will all have too many ABs to qualify as rookies next year. So, with standard caveats about being a non-expert:
1) Buster Posey (above Villalona for his likely quick path to the majors and for playing catcher)
2) Angel Villalona (ahead of Bumgarner for having a ridiculous ceiling)
3) Madison Bumgarner (I think we can probably all agree he’s our best pitching prospect, no?)
4) Tim Alderson (may not have Bumgarner’s ceiling, and he’s not a lefty, but he’s looked really good thus far)
5) Nick Noonan (looks like a good #2 hitter)
6) Henry Sosa (slipping behind Noonan due to the injury)
7) Conor Gillaspie (on the list more for his quick path to the majors than for his ceiling)
8) Wendell Fairley (sort of the opposite of Gillaspie – he’ll take a while by all accounts, but he could be quite good if it all comes together)
9) Pablo Sandoval (slips a bit due to Posey being drafted – it’s hard to see him starting for the Giants at catcher now – but still, the power is intriguing)
10) Roger Kieschnick (sort of arbitrary, actually – there are several guys who could fit at #10, but no obvious choice)
by jcb9 on Jun 13, 2008 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
1 ~ Angel Villalona – I’ve got to be the one to buck convetion here, for two reasons. V is the only blue-chip power prospect to befall the Giants organization in this century. Maybe Posey is more of a sure thing, and is much closer to the bigs, but Villalona’s ceiling is that of an all-star cleanup hitter. Bottom line, still the single most valuable commodity in a position player.
2 ~ Buster Posey – Instant prospect indeed. He figures to start in the Cali League as his defensive tools are advanced, though he will have to grow into a Gold Glove presence behind the plate. Not quite there yet. Also, has to break the stigma of recent disappointments out of Florida St.
3 ~ Madison Bumgarner – Kind of a Mulder vs. Hudson comparison with Alderson, as the two are probably equals in most areas, with Bumgarner gaining the advantage as a lefty.
4 ~ Tim Alderson – Big, durable, and athletic. Something about him sings Brad Radke to me. Tough to rank a pitcher with a viable 20-game-win ceiling at #4. Testament to how strong Giants system has grown.
5 ~ Nate Schierholtz – Most well-known prospect in system due to time in big leagues last year, and has developed five legit tools. Not flashy all-star caliber, but can do everything well. His speed is a valuable asset both sides of the ball.
6 ~ Emmanuel Burriss – Proving he can hit big-league pitching shoots his value way up, considering many considered him Top 10 material even when he was though merely to be a bunt-and-run guy.
7 ~ Henry Sosa – High ranking perhaps, considering health issues. However, has shown no ill effects since return, and when healthy is best secondary pitching prospect in system.
8 ~ Alex Hinshaw – Shot up prospect chart with performance this year. Has as good of one-two combo as anyone in system with exception of Lincecum. Combo of control and velocity, which is becoming trademark of pitchers out of Giants system.
9 ~ Conor Gillaspie – Developed hitter, will probably crack Top 5 within a year.
10 ~ Nick Noonan – Ceiling should see him rise up chart in next couple years, but potential is still a question. Probably develops into solid everyday player. Everyone ahead of him has something exceptional to offer. Once again, ranking testament to strength of Giants system.
11 ~ John Bowker
12 ~ Clayton Tanner
13 ~ Osiris Matos
14 ~ Pablo Sandoval
15 ~ Ben Snyder
16 ~ Charlie Culberson
17 ~ Ryan Rohlinger
18 ~ Travis Ishikawa
19 ~ Jason Jarvis
20 ~ Tyler Graham
by StickRat on Jun 13, 2008 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Emmanuel Burriss
I think you might be overrating Emmanuel Burriss, StickRat. (By the way, I saw a rat terrirer for the first time yesterday.)
Manny has impressed me with how he has improved as a left-handed hitter recently, but I would like to see him show it over a longer period of time before I am convinced. I just LOVE to watch the guy play, but he has one of the weakest bats I have seen in the major leagues. He probably should be in AA (as in the Eastern League, not the rehab group), so his ability to strike out as little as he has - less than his minor-league whiff rate - has been impressive. Still, most of his hits haven’t left the infield untouched.
I’m a little higher on Manny than I was over the winter, but I wouldn’t yet have him in my top 10.
I’m not as big on Travis Ishikawa as some here are, although he has bounced back well this season and indeed at just 24 could still be more prospect than suspect.
by sharksrog on Jun 14, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm intrugued by Snyder over Hinshaw, Grant
What do you think Snyder’s ceiling is?
If you answer correctly, I’ll throw my dirty boxers at you.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jun 13, 2008 5:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Snyder could be Kirk Rueter, which was pretty danged valuable at one point.
Hinshaw could be boffo relief guy for the next decade, but he also walked a batter per freaking inning two years ago, and his control wasn’t exactly perfect in AA. I’m enjoying his newfound control, but I don’t trust it yet.
by Grant on Jun 13, 2008 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I see it:
1. Posey (potential All-Star and Gold Glover, but also has intangibles – in short, he’s a Gamer and likely on-field leader)
2. Villalona (potential once in a generation talent, but less of a sure bet than Posey)
3. MadBum (youngest pitcher in Sally League, already one of the best, a solid future #2)
4. Alderson (like MadBum, young for league, but already an All-Star, a solid future #3)
5. Gillaspie (maybe I’m being a bit optimistic but performance in the Cape Cod League shows he can hit with wood and I think he could challenge for future batting titles)
6. Sosa (I think he could be very valuable out of the pen, as the #1 set up guy or perhaps closer)
7. Schierholtz (I think he has the potential to be at least a solid 15 Hr – 15 SB player, perhaps even 20-20, with adequate defense)
8. Kieschnick (needs more development but could easily surpass Schierholtz in all phases if reaches potential)
9. Noonan (I see him as being a solid regular 2B with low double digit HR power and 20+ SB, and another on-field leader)
10. Hinshaw (top lefty in pen, possible #1 set up guy, may get occasional closing opportunities)
11. Sandoval (will make a solid back up catcher, pinch hitter, and back up 1B)
12. Burriss (is already a solid contact hitter, and will likely develop a bit more oomph when makes contact, best lead off prospect in system)
13. Tanner (showing promise at young age, GB tendencies good sign)
12. Fairley (has tools to be ranked in top 5, but not enough evidence yet)
15. Snyder (like Tanner, potential to be solid, if unspectacular innings eater)
16. Joaquin (power arm could be valuable bullpen addition)
17. Matos (similar to Joaquin)
18. Crawford (If his bat doesn’t come around he could still make useful utility player)
19. English (could be a useful lefty in pen)
20. Velez (I don’t think he becomes a regular, but still valuable off bench with speed, bat and versatility)
If a good number of these players make it, they will in large part comprise the future 25 man roster along with Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Zito, Rowand, Lewis and Wilson.
by baseballjunkie on Jun 13, 2008 6:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
didnt know where else to put it
but i was talkin to some friends at ucla who are still close to crawford and its sounding like the giants offered a shitty bonus and he might rather get his degree then possibly get drafted higher next year
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Jun 14, 2008 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think from this thread alone...
people can see why maybe we might have a consideration for a top 5 system, assuming we’re able to sign our top picks from this year’s draft.
by Hobbes2d on Jun 14, 2008 2:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My top 30
1. Buster Posey – his versatility (SS, P, C) and overall skills and polish make him a no-brainer.
2. Angel Villalona -17 years old with 20 of his 47 hits for XBH in A ball.
3. Madison Bumgarner – been better than expected, especially BB rate. But LHP with mid 90s fastball should be dominating lower minors.
4. Tim Alderson – been impressive in SJ, and has been improving as the year goes on.
5. Nate Schierholtz – at the very least should be a solid platoon OF, if not solid starter.
6. Henry Sosa – has bounced back nicely from knee injury, just needs to rebuild stamina, and work on keeping the ball down.
7. Connor Gillaspie – should move quickly, has the signs of a legit bat, I think he will have more power than expected as well, do to his lightning quick hands/wrists.
8. Nick Noonan – very polished for his age. Has hit, BB rate will increase. I believe some power will come with him as well.
9. John Bowker – Has a chance to become a solid OF or solid 1B, with 25 HR power.
10. Pablo Sandoval – has always been lauded for his bat. Has shown great improvement with his walk rate this year. Is still very young. Shows power potential. My greatest concern would be his weight. He’s always had a pudgy frame, but he was listed at 180 pds just a few years ago. Now he’s around 240.
11. Alex Hinshaw – greatly improved his prospect status thus far. Shows a live fastball, decent breaking stuff. Potential closer. Probable set-up man.
12. Roger Kieschnick – Potential 5 tool player. Has great raw power. Potential 25-30 HR player. Compares to Jeremy Burnitz, I think we would all take that with a 3rd round pick.
13. Brandon Crawford – Toolsy SS. Likely will surpass Culberson and Bocock on the depth chart immediately. If he can become more patient, has a chance to be a very good player, assuming he makes the adjustment to wood bats.
14. Emmanuel Burriss – Has more then held his on in the ML’s, despite having little exposure above lower A ball. Has the speed and defensive ability to at least be a valuable bench player. Whether he hits is the question. Has good plate discipline.
15. Ben Snyder – LHP pitcher w polish. Similar to Noah Lowry.
16. Wendell Fairley – Lots of potential. Might take awhile to reach it, if ever. Being injured doesn’t help.
17. Kevin Pucetas – a RH version of Snyder with more velocity.
18. Clayton Tanner – very young, has struggled after starting off the year great in SJ. But is LH, and has good command and quality pitches.
19. Eugenio Velez – Has great speed, and can play a few positions, good arm. Probably a super utility player, unless he can stick at 2B or the OF.
20. Waldis Joaquin – young, coming off Tommy John surgery in 06. Throws in the mid 90s, projects as a power set-up man, unless he can recover to the point where he could start again.
21. Travis Denker – Has also held his own in SF. Has ability with the bat, and shows patience. Problem is where he will play.
22. Thomas Neal – has seemingly recovered nicely from injury. Moving to 1B might have hurt his value, but he can hit and has done well in Augusta. Is still only 20.
23. Charlie Culberson – Seems to be coming out of his slump to start the year. I question whether he has the ability to be a starting SS, sounds more like a bench player/utility kid. Obviously is young enough for this to change.
24. Wilber Bucardo – young arm, been compared to Fausto Carmona for his hard sinker.
25. Ryan Rohlinger – Older prospect, but has had a nice year in first half of SJ season. Probably will get a promotion to AA soon. I think he could be a short term starter at the ML level until Collaspie is ready. Has some pop, can be patient, plays good defense at 3b.
26. Jesse English – Might have him too low here, but he’s rebounded nicely this year in SJ, and has enhanced his prospect status after recovering last year from TJ surgery in 2006.
27. Osiris Matos – Power bullpen arm, has had a great year so far in AA.
28. Travis Ishikawa – Has had a nice bounce back year in AA. Getting a little older, but still seems to have a chance to be something if he can continue the improvement.
29. Kelvin Pichardo – Another young power bullpen arm. Doing well in AA this year.
30. Matt Downs – Older prospect for SJ having been a college Senior draftee. But he’s hit at every level, can steal a few bags, can play 3b or 2b, and has some pop as well.
by Hobbes2d on Jun 14, 2008 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh.My.God
Completely amateurish! How could you not put the positions next to their names. Sheesh. We give you an opportunity to make this a respectable blog yet you constantly disappoint us. Perhaps the next time you try and dazzle us with a top 20 list you’ll limit it to something that you’ll fail less miserably with….like your favorite colors in the Crayola box or perhaps you could rank your top 10 friends…assuming you have that many.
by Sigualicious on Jun 16, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- D12: Revisiting the Twins decision of Mauer over Prior (again)
- After locking up of AL MVP, it's time for Twins to lock up Mauer
- November means R&R for Raiders fan CC Sabathia and others
- D12: Honeymoon over for big Bobby Jenks and Ozzie Guillen?
- Timmy is so wicked: Lincecum's hair grows with his legend
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
