I'm so over you, Joe Castle.

by FairweatherFan on May 7, 2008 7:04 PM PDT

It was exciting, and had moments I will remember fondly. You teased me with your doubles power and your respectable glove. I even thought for a while that it might work out between us, at least for a little while.

But in the end, you turned out to be exactly the washed up, no talent, rebound 3rd baseman that all my friends said you were. It's okay, they said I needed to do this -that I needed to try something new.

But it's become predictable, and I need more than that right now. I need excitement and potential. I need upside, and that is something you just don't seem to have. I think at this point, Joe, that we should part ways before it gets ugly. That way, we will only have fond memories of the times we spent together - like that 3 run HR you hit in garbage time last night. If this relationship goes on much longer I am afraid that the 2nd in NL GIDP will just remind me too much of my last 3rd baseman, and that's something I just can't handle emotionally right now. In fact, you are second only to my last 3rd baseman in GIDP - only further demonstrating how you are just a shell of what he was.

Goodbye, dear Joe. It's been fun.

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Is it possible that Joe has even less of a sense of the moment than Peter Happy did in a Giants uniform? So un-clutch. Seriously, I can’t take much more of Castillo.

by Rubber Soul on May 7, 2008 7:08 PM PDT 0 recs

I am starting to believe that some players

Are just inherent Rally Killers. These are guys who seem to do the absolute WRONG thing a large percentage of the time. In the stats, it might not be obvious – but as you actually watch the games, it burns deep.

The aforementioned has earned this status in mind mind.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 7, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 7, 2008 7:29 PM PDT 0 recs

Why are you mad at Jose Castillo?? Did you expect a player put on waivers by the Florida Marlins to be a superstar?? Jose Castillo is a decent backup infielder and nothing more. Blame the man that acquired him and had assembled an offense so pathetic that he is the everyday third baseman and hits in an important spot in the lineup. By the way, were you mad at him when he hit that homerun against the Rockies last week??

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 7, 2008 7:33 PM PDT 0 recs

to be fair

he never said he was mad at the guy; just over him.

Castillo is everything we should expect a sub-replacement-level player to be.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on May 7, 2008 7:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Did you actually read the post?

Or did you just skip from reading the title to writing the rebuttal? I know it saves time, but…

All-Father Watch: 1.56 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 16 Ks in 17 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on May 7, 2008 8:49 PM PDT up 0 recs

are you saying I am wrong in the way I characterized your comments?? You called him “washed up” and said he has “no talent.” Neither is fair.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 8, 2008 4:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

your comments

An eloquent, though indirect, answer.

by Evan on May 8, 2008 7:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well, first of all...

...it’s not my fanpost, as alluded to by Evan.

What prompted my response was the disconnect between the tone of the fanpost and of your comment. FWF wrote in a tone of wistful disappointmen and you replied as though he’d tried to tear Castillo a new one.

All-Father Watch: 1.40 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, 18 Ks in 19 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on May 8, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

This team has about 10 in-house "decent backup infielders" already

We don’t need someone else’s castoff. It was worth a try.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 7, 2008 9:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

damn, right on the money

Castillo should be one of the last guys off the bench so why is anyone surprised that hes not headed for
the All-Star game….

whats next, someone going to complain that Bocock and Burriss cant hit?

by slojoe on May 7, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm the sharksrog of Leone supporters...

Mark me down for the Great Leono!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on May 7, 2008 7:35 PM PDT 0 recs

not verbose or repetitive enough to be sharksrog, sry2say. :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 8, 2008 1:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

:(

Oh yeah, well, Justin Leone’s middle name is Paul and I’m not sure where he got it from!

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on May 8, 2008 5:58 AM PDT up 0 recs

Hey, aren’t you the sharksrog of Sanchez supporters too? Don’t bogart the ballplayers, man!

by Evan on May 8, 2008 7:23 AM PDT up 0 recs

I doubt the shrine you built in your home has nearly as many candles as the one sharkrog built for Timmy

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on May 8, 2008 10:32 AM PDT up 0 recs

I Like Joe Castle

Great throw from third and he hasn’t hit that badly. He’s like Pedro Feliz except he’s free.

by Change Up on May 7, 2008 9:18 PM PDT 0 recs

Suck, even if it is free, isn't good.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 7, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up 0 recs

but free suck is better than expensive suck

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on May 7, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Agreed

Expensive Suck: /sʌk/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhk] Pronunciation Slang. to be repellent or disgusting: Poverty sucks.

See:

Durham, Ray

Roberts, Dave

My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .

by nvsfg on May 8, 2008 6:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

I suppose that Zito is in an expensive suck class of his own. Like Durham and Roberts are crappy stuff you might find at Neiman Marcus, stuff that looks nice but falls apart because it’s a piece of crap. So then…Zito is Anthropologie. Expensive, AND annoying. Though I did see a really nice fuzzy blue sweater at Anthropologie that I wanted so badly I was convinced I would die without it.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 8, 2008 7:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

I think the same thing happened to Sabean when he bought the Zito. I

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 8, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

I survived without the blue sweater. There’s a lesson to be learned here.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 8, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up 0 recs

While I agree that Zito is his own class of suck, I was trying to lighten up on the guy.

He did pitch like a MLB player yesterday. Not a good MLB player, but an MLB player none the less.

My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .

by nvsfg on May 8, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up 0 recs

I protest!! When suck is properly applied by a skill practitioner it is quite good.

This is not to imply Castle is a skilled practitioner. Just defending the "virtue" of good suck.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 8, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

I don’t know if we should be getting into a discussion on the value of good suck. This could turn NSFW very fast.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 8, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up 0 recs

I think we should go back to the sweater.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

PSTPIXPLZ!

by WTF on May 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

I did not buy the blue sweater!

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Different sweater will do...

kidding.

by WTF on May 8, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

But this is were The Giants and the internet meet. Two Great things that go great together. What could possibly go wrong?

Oh point taken. Sorry.

For the record "good" suck would be things like the current Schimdt arrangement. Or say Joe Castle , who could dropped at any time, over say 3 years of Guaranteed Pedro as he hit his mid 30’s. Though I guess the latter would also be an example of lesser bad. Or Rowand instead of Sarge Jr. being in our outfield.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 9, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up 0 recs

Sabes

likes playing middle infielders, who hit like middle infielders, at first base : Aurilia, Kent, Vizcaino, Ramon Martinez, etc

But, even more than that, he seems to think that third base is the place to move second basemen who hit like second basemen but need a slightly less crucial defensive position – Castillo, Fransden, Alfatso, DBell, and Mueller …

by SnowLeopard on May 7, 2008 10:13 PM PDT 0 recs

Gosh the guy hits doubles for you...

and what does he get. No respect. Before tonight his OPS+ was 87. thats 20 better than E Velez. Its 4 better than Durham, 33 better than Burriss and 70 better than Bocock.

But thats what he isn’t. Here is what he is – still a relatively young player, getting significant time at 3B for really the first time in his career (he does have another 34 games there in Pittsburgh last year and limited time in ST). In the last week some of his doubles power has manifested as homeruns, and that odd go ahead “triple” the other day. This is a guy with no potential? Based on one month with a SLG of 420. The week before he had a horrid mini slump that dragged his AVG toward 200, which he is now pulling up towards 250 and OBP of 300. Before tonight his OPS was 717 (9th best on the team counting Henn and Cain).

He’s the fill in 3b until someone better comes along or some “break out season” happens. Really, he’s competing with Ort, Velez, and Aurilia (as well as Fransden upon his return) for the backup infielder and post-Durham 2B role. His comps aren’t Amaris Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez. Against his competitors on this team, he is doing okay. I think you need role players on a team, so Manny and Eugenio have the “speed” role sewn up in a way Castiloo doesn’t… but i think he is winning the contest for the starting 2B… he just happens to play 3rd for now.

Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 7, 2008 10:21 PM PDT 0 recs

agree

by Azmanz on May 8, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up 0 recs

He’s a fill-in 3B on a team going nowhere—fine. But he’s a terrible fill-in 3B. He’s the worst third baseman in the NL in fielding and next-to-worst in hitting. Why bother with a guy who doesn’t do anything well?

Justin Leone is almost certainly a better player. I suspect that most AAA third basemen are better players.

by Evan on May 8, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

he is next to worst in RC and RC-27. In AVG, SLG, and OPS he is more towards the middle in the NL. He is not even last in OBP (4rth to last). I normally think of RC-27 as a good metric for big samples and proving how awesome BLB was, but what is throwing it off here? Does it include defense? GIDP? Not RBI or runs, right… And he has that horrid slump week dragging all the stats down (as well as our memories and perceptions). In time that will either even out, or if it proves the norm rather than exception vindicate all the pessimism here in this done-with-Castillo thread.

And for defense – fill in 3B are going to be teh suck. I still wonder if he has the reflexes/arm and head for the hot corner, but I can stomach it for now and hope it gets better. I’ve been told its the ability is there, just not the footwork. Jury is still out, maybe?

Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 8, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

Most the errors I’ve seen from Castillo have been on throws in the dirt. It could be footwork problem, lack of arm strength, or poor accuracy. I don’t think he’s been that bad, but his penchant for the GIDP is driving me nuts, especially in a flyball situation.

by tyrannoman on May 8, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

he’s outperforming his career averages at the moment. I wouldn’t expect him to get any better than how he is now. That horrid slump week counts just as much as the games where he plays all right.

87 OPS+ and league-worst defense? I just don’t see how that’s anything but absolutely terrible. Yeah he’s a fill-in third baseman, but like… god, we haven’t fallen so far that we have to settle for this sort of player as acceptable, have we?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 8, 2008 8:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

Please define acceptable , as used here.

If you mean as a starting place holder for multiple seasons? No but he is young and Sabean has NEVER let a player under 30 hold a starting position over an off season without bringing in someone to possibly take the spot. It least I can’t think of an example since Messy Marvin in the late 90’s. And then there was such a late of available centerfielders it might not have been for lack of trying. And at that point Marvin had been singed to a multi year contract. So I think we are safe there.

If you mean will we have to hobble though the rest of the season with a lot of playing time? Yes we probably will. Even if the Giants pick up a nice answer for third, or even first then sliding Aurilia to third, Mr. Castle can be tossed in the second base hopper for play time. And see if one of those three can’t be forced off the roster in a productive fashion.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 9, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up 0 recs

RC/27 is better than OBP etc because it takes everything (on offense) into account—baserunning, GIDP, etc.

Castillo’s basically right in line with his career averages right now - a little above, actually - so there’s no compelling reason to think he’s due for a hot streak or something.

When the A’s got in a jam last year and needed a third baseman, they traded a nonprospect to get Jack Hannahan, who was 27, blocked, and basically written off as nothing more than an AAAA player. But he turned out to be a pretty good big leaguer. There’s another Hannahan out there somewhere waiting to be liberated.

by Evan on May 8, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

+1

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 8, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

Career averages

He’s 27 years old. That is when players are supposed to have their “break out” year, right?

Why do people hope any of the other Giant’s position players might outperform their PECOTA or career AVGs? Why can’t Castillo conceivably be getting better in 2008? He should be on the upswing in his career, unless he’s lied about his age and is secretly 32….

It’s clear that I don’t think Castillo has been absolutely terrible. I am just trying to show why its too soon to pick this guy as the one to be “over” on the team. If he’s the third, fourth or fifth guy on your “over list” then I guess I can agree with your ranking…

Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 8, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

Why do people hope any of the other Giant’s position players might outperform their PECOTA or career AVGs? Why can’t Castillo conceivably be getting better in 2008? He should be on the upswing in his career, unless he’s lied about his age and is secretly 32….

Because 27 isn’t some magical time when all players get better. Castillo has shown he’s a not-very-good player for over 4+ years now while racking up over 1,500 AB’s.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on May 8, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

He wouldn’t be the first guy I’d cut (or second)(maybe not even third), but that says more about the Giants’ insane roster than about Castillo.

I agree with almost everything you said, in the abstract. Picking Castillo up was a good gamble. But after watching him for six weeks, I’m ready to take a look at someone else. I just can’t see him ever developing into a tolerable starter.

by Evan on May 9, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up 0 recs

i can't believe anyone is apologizing for castillo

while simultaneously dissing a (should’ve been) gold glove third basemen who hits 20 bombs and 80 rbis consistently every year.

castillo plays shitty defense, leads the team in errors, and is really not much of a treat at the plate. i guess his oppo approach is cool and definitely different from feliz rolling over to shortstop all the time, but he still hits .240

why does everyone here hate feliz? i honestly think he was one of the better players the giants had the last few years (after the departure of kent, snow and rich aurilia (richie doesn’t count anymore). there are so many ground balls castillo doesn’t get to that i know pedro would have no problem. the giants should have given feliz the multi year deal he deserved and earned. if you want to talk about role players, who is the better role player, feliz or castillo?

castillo is trash. that’s why Pittsburg and florida dropped him . . . duh

feliz is a decent ball player with in my opinion the best defense in the league at his position and 20 hr/yr power. that’s why the phillies signed him . . . duh.

i know i’m rambling but it baffles me that sabean would offer contracts to aurilia, vizquel, roberts, castillo, etc and then snub feliz who is better than all of them.

BRING BACK FELIZ!

by tjbrun88 on May 8, 2008 1:05 AM PDT 0 recs

Eh, Feliz is a better player than Castillo, but long-term I’d much prefer the supplemental draft pick we got for him over another year of Feliz. I have absolutely no problem with Sabean not re-signing him and leaving us with this mess at third.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 8, 2008 1:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

We hated Feliz's offense

Everything else we liked.

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 8, 2008 1:34 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well, he had questionable facial hair at times.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on May 8, 2008 5:58 AM PDT up 0 recs

NECK BEARD!!

ftw

Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 8, 2008 7:09 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm a big Pedro guy

Love his D, love him as a person (nicest guy you’d ever wanna meet), but he was absolutely infuriating at the plate. Some of the blame has to go to the Giants coaches for not ever teaching him to lay off the outside breaking ball, but fercrissakes, if I can ID that pitch, he should be able to also.

I miss he, and will applaud him warmly on Friday.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on May 8, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

I like Pedro too

but I can’t put his inability to not swing at sliders in the dirt on the Giants’. Pedro hasn’t exactly become Rickey Henderson now that he’s a Phillie, has he? Some very talented guys just never make that adjustment. If it wern’t for Pedro’s D, he would be a bench player, or a career AAA guy.

by tyrannoman on May 8, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

i don't disagree

But he did come up thru the SFG system. I’m saying that someone, at some point, shoulda helped break him of that awful habit. It’s not something that a Phillies hitting instructor could fix in 3 months.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on May 8, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm sure efforts were made

but some guys just can’t help themselves, from all organizations. Look at Ben Broussard, or Jerome Walton. He played for the cubs in the late 80’s early 90’s and had all kinds of talent, but just couldn’t lay off breaking balls.

by tyrannoman on May 8, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up 0 recs