McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

Time to Trade Molina?

I don't particularly like Damon Bruce (I'll admit I like him more now than when he first started) but he made an excellent point tonight.

Will Molina be any more valuable in a trade than he is RIGHT NOW?

Probably not.  We've been speculating for months about Durham and Aurelia being up on the auction block if they were to get hot.  But what about Molina?  He's not part of the future (3+ years from now) and behind the plate he's good but he's not exceptional.  If your argument is that he needs to be there to help calm the young arms down I counter that there are plenty of vet catchers to be had in some kind of Molina deal who can bat 8th for us and keep the pitchers just as calm and prepare them just as well for the future.  Perhaps better.

Thoughts?

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs  |  Comment 59 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

It’s an interesting argument that would really come down to what we could get for him. It’s a good point that he probably won’t be any more valuable than he is now, but is there really a team out there just dying to add an aging catcher who’s better than advertised? Dying to do so to the point where they’d part with a talented youngster who would make the increased agony of watching Giants baseball in near future worthwhile? I’d doubt it.

Fact is, no matter how “clutch” Molina becomes, no one’s going to trade the farm for him. Heck, no one’s going to trade us a couple of acres for him, let alone the whole damn farm. On top of that, I like the idea of a seasoned vet working with our younger pitchers, and it’s not like we’ve got any catchers banging on the doors in AAA. So yeah, unless I’m wrong and somebody really wants Bengie, I’d keep him.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on May 5, 2008 11:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Probably not exactly now considering that G-Rod and Notgardo are both not playing, so we don’t have a backup for Steve Holm ready.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 5, 2008 11:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought this was in the original post

And trading Molina for Catcher + prospect will get us a worse prospect than Molina for prospect. So we wait.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 5, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you wont get anything for him

what is he, 34? hes worth more to the giants than what you’d get in return….

by slojoe on May 5, 2008 11:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Die Heretic!

You don’t trade away your cleanup hitter in the midst of a pennant race!

Back to reality, then… It’s not a bad idea. But trade him to who, trade him for who, and replace him with who?

Getting a spare part catcher with better D is part of the equation because there’s no evidence Holm is an every day type. His numbers even through the minors scream journeyman but to his credit he has produced when called on this year even while seeing regular duty while B-Mole’s legs were sore. That’s IF pitcher development is really the priority.

If it’s not, you could just suffer through 2008 with some combination of Holm plus Knoedler, and Alfonzo when he’s back from suspension.

If you’re giving up just Molina, what you’d probably get back is a #2 catcher plus a non-prospect minor leaguer, or get back a quasi-prospect who is a few years away.

If you’d want to do something more featuring Molina in a package with someone from the pen (Threets?) plus a dump such as Hennessey, you might get a league-average infield starter.

The trade partner would have to be a club in a “win now” mode with a logjam at one infield position (2B or 3B) or a quality utility player who can’t quite crack that team’s lineup. Molina will revert or break down sometime, so your trade partner needs to be someone willing to roll the dice.

It’s probably too early to count on that. But in a month or so it might be a deal you could do, especially if Molina puts up a streak of .400 and 6 or 7 RBIs in 10 games.

by S.F. Giangst on May 5, 2008 11:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Knoedler's with the A's now

(joke: Jerome Williams?)

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 5, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was easy to miss

especially with the news about the EARTHQUAKE!

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 6, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

v.v

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on May 6, 2008 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Molina’s trade value would be higher if his legs were healthy.

Which, to be fair, might not happen.

But I think when you’re looking at trade value you can’t just look at how well a guy is playing at the time, you also have to look at the time. Regardless of what value Bengie is imbuing himself with by playing well, what team is looking to make the kind of trade that Bengie could be a part of a month into the season?

It just doesn’t seem to me that trades involving starting position players really happen a week into May (as long as memory doesn’t = fail), just because nobody is really looking very hard at this point. Molina’s value is determined as much by his performance as by demand, and I think this is a period of pretty low demand.

That’s just my thoughts.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 5, 2008 11:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Health is a key

He might be slightly more attractive to an AL team where he could be the second-choice DH as well and reduce his squat time. And since most trade scenarios would have him going for a back-up catcher, he’d still be platooning with their current starter to some degree. Put those together and he’d probably fit best with a team doing DH-by-committee this season.

by S.F. Giangst on May 6, 2008 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hard

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 6, 2008 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mmm... manroot....

Boil it, bake it, mash it, sautee it, but always – ALWAYS – peel it first.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 6, 2008 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still get it, though. If anything deserves to be a universal internet meme, it’s re: nugget, but only .0000001% will ever know its simple beauty.

by Grant on May 6, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL... warriorsworld poster?

Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on May 6, 2008 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Posada’s injuries don’t get any better the Yankees might be in the market for a catcher and they have a pretty deep farm system to pick from. I wouldn’t expect anything great, but if you can get a B type of prospect I think you have to make that trade.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 6, 2008 8:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

if a B level prospect is the best you can get back for Molina, I say keep him. The orgainization isn’t overloaded with catching talent, and I think you’re better off keeping Molina than sigining Sal Fasano (or =) to mind the store for the rest of the season.

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can get Jose Molina + prospect of some sorts

we wouldn’t have to change the name on the jersey, or the number. Most people wouldn’t even notice, except when it came time to bat, that is.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on May 6, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point, though if we’re swapping Molinas, can I put a request for Yadier?

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What no Betemit for Molinia?

What a rip! -NOT.

Seriously if "b" type prospect is a catcher or 3rd baseman type might part ways with Tyrannoman here. Maybe. I would at least hope it get heavy consideration.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 6, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re right, it should be considered, but I’d need some heavy convincing. Perhaps I have to much faith in Frandsen’s return next year, but I think 3B/2B will work itself out. Benjie, if kept, can catch next year as well. SS will be the position of biggest need this offseason, and that crappy little Furcal keeps creeping into my brain.

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on the convincing.

I am not hot to trot to be rid of Molinia. If nothing else I get the feeling he will not let a losing be come too comfortable. For a team with half is roster stripped down to the foundations , or lower, that’s a very important thing.

But the reality is he seems to were down if used over say 950 innings ( 105 full games). He plays a very demanding position. And its a position that players tend to age very quickly in. So I would not count on him being the catcher for 100 + games next. I could very well be wrong but the prudent bet is to not put the team in that position. * cough* Omar * cough* .

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 6, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A very wise man...

...once said “It’s better to trade a player two years too early than one year too late.” Just as a wild guess, I think we’re probably now in that two year period. Assuming we could get something useful for him (double-A SS, double-A catcher, promising reliever), I’d trade him.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 6, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine hit me over the hit with Branch Ricky and Bill Walsh!

So this dread of logic feel. It must be what it feels like to work in our current front office.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 7, 2008 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Molina and Zito to the Yankees for A-Rod!!!111!!

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on May 6, 2008 9:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait I thought we were switching Nate to third base?

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 6, 2008 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

then A-Rod slides back to SS. Beautiful plan.

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then

Frandsen comes back and Velez moves to catcher, right?

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 6, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

Ztio moves to 1B, where he hits .280/.390/.822 with 37 HRs.

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Otherwise known as the Rick Ankiel Effect?

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 6, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phillies, Angels and Diamondbacks

could all use an upgrade at catcher.

If we can’t get any decent prospects for him, then I’d just keep him.

by superk1ng on May 6, 2008 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Snyder

Chris Snyder was pretty good last year for the D-Backs and has hit well this year. I don’t think they’re in the market for catching right now.

by xanthan on May 6, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

but Chris Snyder is no clean up hitter!

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and montero

also a young catcher.. i think theyre good there

by Azmanz on May 6, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Angels?

Their combo of Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis is outhitting Bengie. And Napoli has outhit Bengie the previous 2 years. Bengie won’t be an upgrade for the Angels.The Angels need middle infielders, not catchers.

Bengie won’t be an upgrade for the DBack over Snyder + Montero either.

Philies yes, but they have a really poor farm.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 6, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Molina's BB-Ref Page...

...has the weirdest / funniest sponsor quote ever.

Your pitching staff is in good hands with a Molina behind the plate. May the lords of baseball bless Barry Zito and the beautiful people of San Francisco.

by xanthan on May 6, 2008 10:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“there are plenty of vet catchers to be had in some kind of Molina deal who can bat 8th for us…”

Just what we need! Another 8th place hitter! Hooray!

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 6, 2008 10:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

8th is the new cleanup.

We’re going to field a lineup with 3 2nd place hitters, 2 7th and 3 8th. Nobody will expect it!

All-Father Watch: 1.56 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 16 Ks in 17 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on May 6, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So our lineup will be the Spanish Inquisition?

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 6, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our principal weapon is speed!

Speed and execution. Our two main weapons are speed, execution, and doing the little things. Three! Our three weapons…

All-Father Watch: 1.56 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 16 Ks in 17 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on May 6, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And RUTHLESS inefficiency!

Come in again…

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 6, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are we really three years from the “next good giants team”? As has been discussed previously, if you add Frandsen, Furcal and Texiera to the current team, you’d have something good enough to be “good” without giving up any pitching.

If the giants have those kind of plans, I’m for keeping B-money. If not, I’d be ok with moving him if the right deal came along. (Or the Wright deal, but that ain’t happenin’)

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on May 6, 2008 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Frandsen

I’m not sure that adding Frandsen isn’t going to do much. Even the most die hard Frandsen supporter has to admit that his career to being a MLB player is going to be tough. He’ll be coming back at age 27, after missing a year to injury, and after a so-so season in ‘07.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him flame out.

by xanthan on May 6, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant more that if you sub Frandsen for Castillo, it’d be a likrely upgrade, but I’d prefer somethign better at 3B.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on May 6, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I’ve said before, I am probably too high on Frandsen, but if the Holy Grail of Texieradom does sign with the Giants this winter, and a SS can be found (Furcal), than I’d love to see Frandsen get an everyday shot. With nothing to go on but gut, he seems to me to be a player who will produce in an everyday role. Or, alternatley, let him play 2B every day, move Velez to a super sub role, and trade for a quality 3B.

by tyrannoman on May 6, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this the right time?

I believe there has been no BAD time to trade Bengie after he got off to a good start in 2007. Once it became obvious the Giants were done (which was about a year ago), there seemed no reason NOT to trade anyone who was making over $1 million.

The original reply poster who said it would depend on what one could get was correct. There is no point in GIVING away a player who is performing.

But 2012 is a good target date for the Giants’ rebuilding efforts to pay with serious results, and Bengie isn’t very likely to be helping by then, is he?

If a contender suffers a serious injury to its catcher, Bengie could indeed bring a decent prospect in return. And while Steve Holm likely isn’t a starting-caliber catcher, I would have no problem with finishing out the season with him, backed up by Guillermo Rodriguez—and perhaps with some September time for Pablo Sandoval.

by sharksrog on May 6, 2008 1:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

2012?

Jesus… If this team can’t field a competative effort before 2012 then they just need to quit. That’s ridiculous.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 6, 2008 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they quit

If the Giants quit, they have NO chance of fielding a highly-competitive team before 2012 rather than just a small chance of doing so. And then they would also have no chance of fielding a competitive team in 2012 and beyond.

Given how deep the hole is, I am OK with waiting until 2012. The Giants ARE a more exciting team in some ways than they have been in recent years.

by sharksrog on May 6, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What kind of return would we get for Molina right now, though?

Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.

by Anticon23 on May 6, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Molina's value ...

is determined by his being a battery mate to the ground floor of the Giants rebuiling process: the pitching staff. This makes Molina “untocuhable” trade wise.

by StickRat on May 6, 2008 9:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
Start posting about the Giants »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dnw_small
MCC Recipe Swap & Food Talk Jamboree
Small
What I Would Do With the Roster

Recent FanPosts

Small
Could the Giants get any Compensation Picks?
Shadow_grad_small
We're interested in Uggla...
Lucy-liu_small
Giants add four to 40-man roster
Timmy_avatar_small
Expansion Teams / Relocation Discussion
Howtheyscoredcat_small
Lincecum Arbitration Results Prediction Thread!
Panda_bubble_small
First Baseman of the future
Timmy_avatar_small
Downloadable Game Broadcasts?
29x2_small
All-time favorite SF Giants: closer
Small
Would you trade Jeremy Affeldt?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Overlord

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant

Minions

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Dog2_small kenshin1

Lincecum_small Natto

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Goofus_small Goofus

Det_7193_small jponry

Minor League Guru

Small steve S