Back to Back Jacks Twice & NATE CYCLE!
by Cainer on May 26, 2008 12:49 PM PDT
58 comments
Wow in just a matter of 10 minutes some Giants minor leagers go off at the palte. The Fresno Grizzlies Nate Schierlotz (6) and Brian Horwitz (5) both hit home runs back to back. Then shortly after in Augusta the Greenjackets Nick Noonan (2) and Garrett Baker (5) hit back to back home runs. The homers Noonan and Baker hit were off of NYY top pitching prospect Dellin Betances. Schierholtz and Horwitz hit their homers off of the Dodgers AAA team.
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Both games are still being played
Schierholtz followed up the homer in his first AB with a Double in his second AB. Noonan in his first 3 AB’s has a HR and Double.
by Cainer on May 26, 2008 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Brian Horwitz
I want what he is having. This kid is finally beginning to hit with a little power. He has always hit for a high average and now he is adding some XB power to his game. Am hoping he continues to improve and works his way to The City one day. He deserves it.
by wilriv21 on May 26, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Schierlolz.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 26, 2008 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Noonan is now a triple short of the cycle. It’s late in the game, though.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on May 26, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONAAAAN
if only he’d walk once in awhile
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on May 26, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why take a walk when he is smacking XBH all over the field?
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 26, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because there will be times when he won’t be smacking XBH all over the field.
by Natto on May 26, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, like he can’t hit singles AND walk? It’s not a zero-sum game.
From what I’ve heard of Noonan, it sounds like he’s the sort of player for whom OBP will be a big part of his potential value. So if he’s not walking and his batting average isn’t consistently up in the .340 range, the kid needs to learn to take a free base.
by jcb9 on May 26, 2008 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take an XBH over a single and a single over a walk
by wilriv21 on May 26, 2008 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it’s not a matter of replacing singles or doubles or triples with walks. It’s a matter of replacing OUTS with walks.
What you seem to be implying is that this is a matter of hits OR walks. So he’s either going to hit .300 with a .310 OBP, or hit .240 with a .310 OBP. But that’s not what we’re talking about. All hits being equal, what Noonan needs to do is cut into the number of OUTS that he makes by taking more walks in those situations. The difference between hitting .275 with a .310 OBP and hitting .275 with a .350 OBP.
Would you rather have a walk, or an out? That’s the only question at play here.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 26, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is to say that when choosing between a walk and an out (assuming that this is one of the 75% of at bats when he does not get a hit), you’ll take the out that 1.5% of the time that he’ll be in a position to bring the runner home from third with a ground ball out or a sac fly.
So, like, a completely negligible amount of the time that Noonan does not get a hit, you want him to make an out. I can go with that. It still leads logically to the conclusion that he will be a better player if he can reduce the total number of outs that he produces by walking more the other 98.5% of the time that an out won’t score a run.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 27, 2008 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, what?
I’d still rather have him take the walk.
by Viliphied on May 27, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Even if I don’t agree with it (and I’m not saying that I do or that I don’t), I can see why wil would want the out rather than the walk in that situation, since the out would result in a run and the walk would result only in the continued possibility of a run (or more runs).
My point was that if that is the ONLY time that an out could even be conceivably better than a walk, and that situation comes up for an individual player, like, less than 2% of the time he comes to bat, then why insist on trying to argue the point against walks?
Here’s how it went:
I’d rather he gets doubles and singles then walks.
Ummm… that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about him reducing his outs by walking more, not his xbhs.
Who cares, if the out scores a run?
And then my head exploded. Because he clearly understands what I’m saying, and he must agree (since at this point he’s arguing a brand new point altogether, as though the first point never existed), as any reasonably person would, that when talking walks versus outs, 98% of the time it’s not even close. But he couldn’t just say “yeah, that makes sense.” No, he had to keep pushing this line of thought in the wrong direction.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 27, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was taught and believe baseball is based on the situation
Heck even if you exlcude the “productive outs” there still are times I would rather make an out than not make an out. For example, Lincecum is pitching in the swelter that is Atlanta and he comes to bat in the 6th or 7th inning – do I want him to get a base hit, BB and stand in the sun or make an out and go back to the dugout where he can rest? Runers on 2nd and 3rd with two outs and the 8th place hitter is up with pitcher on deck. Chances are I want that 8th place hitter to expand his strike zone a bit and drive the ball even if it is an out rather than the pitcher hit. I am funny that way.
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will, what exactly are you trying to argue here? Noonan is currently hitting a respectable but hardly dominating .282 in low A ball. He’s made 140 outs this season in just over 200 plate appearances. Are you suggesting that he should be down there in the Sally trying to learn how to make outs? and consequently all is well and right with his season?
The purpose of training (and the minors are certainly that) is to learn to establish good habits. Never leave anything on top of a ladder. Always wait for test results to come in before making diagnoses. Good habits.
People want to see some walks out of Nick because this indicates an awareness of the importance of commanding the strike zone. Trying to command the strike zone is a good habit that will keep him in good stead as he faces tougher and tougher pitching competition, while swinging at anything he thinks he can hit is a trap that will cause him greater and greater trouble during that same rise. It’s training. It’s establishing good habits. Making outs in 70% of your ABs in Low A ball isn’t a good habit to get into and doesn’t portend good things for the future when things get rougher.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on May 27, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I am saying is that walks without some type of situational awareness is not the full story. If the pitcher is nibbling outside the zone then walk. If you get a pitch in your zone hack away.
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think any of us would take an XBH over a single.
by Natto on May 27, 2008 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when we are the ones with the bat in our hands, Yes
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2008 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I hate extra-base-hits and my black sabermetric heart only yearns for bases on balls.
I’m actually a computer.
by xanthan on May 27, 2008 5:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aha!
The truth begins to come out.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on May 27, 2008 5:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That explains why you have so much porn.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 27, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played computer joke.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 27, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well isn’t that what computers are for?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 27, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine certainly is.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 28, 2008 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I KNEW IT
Do you want to know how I know? It’s because… I’m a computer too.
by Natto on May 27, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So this is what it’s like…when doves cry.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on May 27, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets worry about it when that time comes…So far, he appears to be a stud hitter just barely a year out of high school
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 26, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was hitting .274/.303/.403 before tonight. I’m not exactly disappointed but that’s nowhere near being a stud hitter.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on May 26, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he’s not exactly smacking XBH all over the field, this game notwithstanding?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on May 26, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BEAT LA! BEAT LA!
Thank you Velez. Now Nate is guaranteed to get another AB.
by Cainer on May 26, 2008 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
where would the Fresno Grizzlies be without Brian Bocock?
if the game goes into extra innings Schierholtz may get a few tries at a single you are looking for.
by wilriv21 on May 26, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn’t look like extra innings but Nate did it
by Cainer on May 26, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No cycle for Noonan. Still, 3-5 with a homer, double, and stolen base.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on May 26, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nate...
is on Fire!!! What a shame to have a power hitter linger in Fresno when that is precisely what the Giants need…Can we please get rid of some our dead wood? With a 1/3 of the season gone, I see Durham and Aurilia getting more and more playing time? Aren’t we supposed to rebuild this season? Can’t we just eat their contracts if we cant trade them and move on? And speaking about dead wood, hhy is Messenger,Foppert ,Fortunato and Gryboski takling roster space when we have so many talented young arms ready to take it to a higher level?
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 26, 2008 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just How Do You Expect The Giants To Rebuild There Trade Value If They Don't Play?
Isn’t this the very best option? Why wouldn’t you want both Aurilia and Durham to maximixe their playing time and sucess now so that we can get the most for them at the trading deadline? For that matter, is this the right thing to do too with Winn and thus keeping Schierholtz in the minors now also the right thing?
by giantsrainman on May 26, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because. I don’t think any other team is stupid enough to trade for either of them just rendering their current playing time as a waste of time and preventing us to move on with the program? Having said that I hope I am wrong with my assessment, but we are talking about the Giants here…..
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on May 26, 2008 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I kind of agree with both of you. The veterans are just wasting our time and taking up atbats that could go to kids, but don’t forget last year we got Travis Denker for Mark Sweeney, a pushing 40 pinch hitter. You would have to think that Durham and Aurilia would be worth more than a Mark Sweeney.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on May 26, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It takes two
You have to have someone to trade with and very few teams are ready to trade this early in the year. It’s no fun but it makes sense to keep running the vets out fairly regularly and hope they do well when the right people are looking. If we get to the trading deadline and no one wants them, then you can DFA them if they are really blocking someone. But it’s not as though we are actually in the race this year so the right way to roll the dice is to hope one of them does well enough to bring something worthwhile in return when teams are really ready to trade.
by NearestNorwich on May 26, 2008 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
WTF is Nate still doing in Fresno. Sabes do your damn job and get him major league ABs. DO YOUR JOB! These team is extremely light on quality hitters and the only decent young hitter that we have is beating up AAA pitchers. He needs major league at bats and he isn’t getting them. Bring him up and give him starts in front of Winn and any starts at 1B that were going to Richie. This makes me so angry I can hardly type straight.
Bring me the head of Barry Zito!
by elGuapo on May 26, 2008 10:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Because he needs regular ABs, and Winn isn’t playing badly enough to justify benching him.
by Viliphied on May 26, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate's Time Will Come
But it would be wrong to just bench Winn now in favor of Nate. Winn needs to continue to play and play well so that he can fetch the max at the trade deadline. And, this of course means that Nate needs to stay in AAA until a Winn is traded at the deadline so that he too can play everyday Anything else would be just flat ass stupid.
by giantsrainman on May 26, 2008 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what should happen when Winn isn’t traded at the deadline? And Roberts comes back from his injury and isn’t traded either.
Because I think we all know that’s going to happen.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on May 27, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Lewis better pray he is playing well
Winn is owed about $13.5M on the remainder of his contract and if SF cannot trade him and Lewis is not playing well then move Winn to LF and play Schierholtz in RF.
by wilriv21 on May 27, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple, groug
That’s when we move Nate back to 3B.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on May 27, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no trade
from what i remember winn has a full no trade block in his contract. he would want to leave in order to get moved. i think the best way might be to take away some playing time. him plus roberts on the team is an outright roster disaster.
Bring me the head of Barry Zito!
by elGuapo on May 27, 2008 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a partial no trade blocking trades to 8 teams.
by xanthan on May 27, 2008 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To add to xanthan..
He had a full no trade until this year, then can block 8 teams, rumored to be basically AL and NL central teams.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
by WalrusMan on May 27, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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