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Rowand Love Baby

My first diary in the new format -

Is anyone willing to object to the Rowand signing at this point?  I remember a lot of a groaning at the time but 11m per year for 5 years for a player of Rowand's caliber both on the field and off the field seems pretty amazing to me at this point.

 

He's definitely proven his leadership.  Watching TV footage of how players interact with him in the dugout shows he's a natural leader who inspires other players (for what that's worth) . . . and the stats speak for themselves.

.325avg  .393obp  .529slg

Compared to say Roberts (heh) this is one of the better FA signings the giants have made in recent history.  I'm not one to buy into the "grit" and "heart" of ballplayers (eff David Eckstein) but Rowand is one player I can truly buy into.

 

Anyway, this post is just to contradict all the haters I remember from when he was signed.  Maybe a lame diary but to be honest <3 Rowand.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I thought the title was an Arrested reference

Look at banner Michael!

The 2008 San Francisco Giants season is currently listed at Threat Level: Midnight.

by UnderRadar on May 26, 2008 1:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I only watch the office

and Rowand compares to Halpert on the BBale court.

by fwoty oz on May 26, 2008 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

he is one of the most under appreciated people on this team

"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored

by CPGiant756 on May 26, 2008 2:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually disagree with this. I think he’s playing well, fans are appreciating his caliber of play, he’s getting a TON of positive press. I don’t see where “underappreciated” falls into those things.

There were plenty of naysayers when the signing was made, but I think he’s getting plenty of credit now.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 26, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Horse before cart. The contract is a grand total of 5 percent completed. Let’s hold off our long-term judgments for a while, shall we?

by Steve on May 26, 2008 2:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you

I knew he was one of those guys that performed up to contract and “led by example.” I could’ve used one of those bullshit examples about being a warrior and crap like that, but lets be real…I knew the guy was going to hit .300+ and was willing to run through a wall when the game depended on it! He truly is the total opposite strategy of past years where guys preferred to slack off (not running out ground balls, taking lazy routes to fly balls, relying on the home run, etc.) I am not saying that he is the savior of the franchise, but I really think he is a bargain when you consider what he is teaching our current outfielders (and what I hope he teaches Nate and others in the next few years,) what he is bringing to the current offense with no true hitter to protect or be protected by, and he is a potential gold glove center fielder in a park with a gigantic outfield.

Bottom line-we got a solid fielder, a solid hitter in a weak lineup, and a great clubhouse guy for the same money that other teams (Dodgers) are paying for below average bench players in all respects, poor right fielders (Red Sox), and guys that were DFA’d (Tigers>Marlins.) I liked it! And I still like! Keep giving it your all Aaron, some of us aren’t whiney bitches when it comes to the same money Ted Lilly is getting!!!

by m34josh on May 26, 2008 2:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You knew he was going to hit .300+?

Bull**. He’s hit over .300 twice in his career thus far. I don’t expect him to finish over .300 this year, either. .290 or .280 seems more realistic. See post below you

by lmaozedong on May 26, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

blahsdfjahwoiugha;soi

seriously? How many runs does running out ground balls give us? 1, maybe every year?

Are you kidding me?

AND FOR GOD’S SAKE, RELYING ON HOME RUNS IS HOW YOU SCORE RUNS AND WIN BALLGAMES. Besides, Aaron Rowand will probably lead this team in the HR category! I feel like i’m taking crazy pills.

GARR! this bothers me. Anyways, my gripe about the Rowand signing is that it was at the wrong place at the wrong time. he’s an above-average player that would be a boon to a contending, good team with a need for a strong hitting center fielder. The Giants aren’t that team!!! the contract is fine, as is the length, but only for a team that needs him!!!!

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 26, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I like Rowand, by the way, but it’s also fair to point out that this season’s results are more or less pumped up on a totally unsustainable BABIP:

That is, unless we’re assuming that his elevated line drive rate is a function of a change in his skillset, rather than small sample size noise. Obviously I’m hoping for the former, but time will tell.

by Steve on May 26, 2008 3:11 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Great post!

Great post, Steve! I liked the signing of Aaron because he was a good player with a great attitude—and he was the youngest of the top free agent center fielders, meaning he could still be pretty good when the Giants finally get good again.

But like you, I have been making the point that Aaron’s average is very likely to decline significantly, since it is indeed based on what would appear to be an unsustainable BABIP.

One point I WILL make on behalf of Aaron though is that he has put up his high batting average despite playing in a handful of games in which he likely should have been sitting out with his rib injury. The guy is a gamer, and somehow he managed to keep his average up despite playing hurt.

I said when the Giants signed him that he likely didn’t deserve his Gold Glove last season and was overrated defensively. He has been even a bit worse defensively than I expected, as he illustrated with his horrendous through on the sacrifice fly into very shallow center field yesterday, but while his hitting has likely been over his head, it certainly has been better than I expected.

One of the reasons I favored the Rowand signing initially though was that I felt it would make it much easier to trade Randy Winn and/or Dave Roberts. With neither having been traded, the signing of Rowand has kept Nate Schierholtz in the minors. That isn’t the worst thing in the world, since Nate is still working on his self-stated goal of waiting for more pitches he can drive, but even though he fell to .288 by going hitless in four at bats yesterday, I think Nate is ready to begin his career as close to an average corner outfielder in the majors. If he indeed develops the patience to wait for balls he can drive, he could even become above-average IMO.

In order for the Rowand signing to truly work out and not be merely an unnecessary move, the Giants need to trade either or preferably both of the duo of Winn and Roberts. Winn is the guy who would seem to be tradable, so ironically his going would open up a spot for his fellow high school alum in Nate.

It will be interesting to see if any of the lefty-hitting trio of Freddie Lewis, John Bowker and Nate becomes a good enough hitter to play every day instead of merely as the dominant part of a platoon. I think Nate has the best chance of the three, although if the Giants didn’t have Rowand and Freddie could play good enough defense to play center field, I might give him the nod.

When the season began, the Giants had three right-handed hitting outfielders or first basemen (Rajai Davis, the switch-hitting Eugenio Velez and the then switch-hitting Dan Ortmeier) to potentially platoon with Freddie. Now they have only Ortmeier among young players from the right side—and have added Bowker from the left, with Nate lurking in the wings at Fresno.

Has any non-expansion team ever had as many non-ready position players as the Giants have had this season in Velez, Ortmeier, Manny Burriss, Brian Bocock and now Travis Denker? Since they waived him, I guess one might consider adding Rajai Davis to the group.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already knew this would be a sharksrog post from the first three words.

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by Natto on May 26, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly. And if you couldn’t tell from the first 3 words, the length of the post should have given it away.

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on May 26, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But there’s no mention of Tim Lincecum or giving Barry Zito money that should have been given to Rick Porcello instead.

Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.

by Anticon23 on May 26, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One key balls in play stat

that isn’t mentioned here: HR / Flyballs. Rowand is hitting home runs like a star slugger in 2008. His home run per flyball rate is at a career high 20.4%. The previous four years from 2004, 15%, 8.8%, 10.5%, 13.1%.

If he can indeed keep up that HR / flyball rate, a drop in BABIP won’t really hurt him much.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 26, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think...

Ortmeier can be included in that group. Ortmeier was a now or never guy, either he’s ready for the major leagues or he’s a bench player. He’s useful as a benchplayer, but as a starter he’s a stretch.

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by WalrusMan on May 26, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never really objected to the Rowand signing in a vacuum… I think he’s technically worth the money he got, I’m just not sure the Giants were the team that needed to be signing him.

I really like him now that he’s on the team though and I am happy to have him.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 26, 2008 3:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This. agree. +1.

Of course he looks good now – his BA is 40 points above his career.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 26, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

damnit.

leave it to jponry to make my exact point with superior eloquence.

BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 26, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rowand is a great signing for a contending team, but the Giants probably need four or five Aaron Rowands. I’m glad we have him, but we can only hope the Giants quickly fill in the pieces around him, or as good as he is the signing will be a waste. I think you can say the same thing about Bengie Molina as well. I really enjoy watching them play, so thanks Giants for bringing them in, but you forgot to put good players around them!!

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 26, 2008 6:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Give

Give the Giants four or five Aaron Rowands, Barry Bonds and Vladimir Guerrero, and they would be NAILS!

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

going to give up alot of hits on grounders…

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 26, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great so far. If I had to make a prediction, I’d still guess that he’s going to get hurt a lot and deteriorate in a hurry.

Really, the only way it’s a good signing in context is if the Giants are able to trade Randy Winn for something valuable.

by Evan on May 26, 2008 6:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow!

Wow, Evan! Are you and I the same person? :)

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I quietly liked the signing, even though I’m not sure how good he’ll be deep into his contract.

Most rebuilding teams don’t have their pitching staff already in place, and that’s usually what takes the longest to develop. If the Giants get the best free agent position player each year while developing some of the upper level talent into starters, it’s possible they could go from crap factory to competitive in a couple years.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on May 26, 2008 7:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

do you really have faith in our GM to get the “best free agent position player each year??” First of all, he’s a fool. Aaron Rowand was dumb luck because he preferred Andruw Jones. Chances are if he had signed Jones instead he would have went with Magowan last week. Second of all, position players don’t want to hit at ATT. They want warm weather, better teams and friendlier ballparks. Aaron Rowand might be the best FA position player they will be able to get for the next decade.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 26, 2008 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which

Which is why I don’t expect the Giants to contend before 2012.

Of course, if they keep signing free agents like Barry Zito, it might be 2112! :)

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t say that I have faith in it, but it isn’t something completely outside of his skill set.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on May 26, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody objected

to the first year of the signing for the money. It’s the last year or two of the contract that had (has) people concerned.

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.

by S.F. Giangst on May 26, 2008 7:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That and the fact one of two places on the team were The Suck was not so large the a person could drop anchor for TWO super tankers length wise and still not fill the gap was the outfield.

Of coarse it is better then buying relief pitching. And I have been happy with Rowand’s play.

We will see how happy you are to pay 12 million in payroll for the 32 year old model. And 12 million for the 3 year old model. And 12 million for the ( soon to be improved) 34 year old model. Perhaps going 20-31 right now is worth it to you.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 26, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it safe?

Is it safe to say that the signing of Aaron Rowand was better than the signing of Barry Zito? :)

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Objections to Rowand signing

Yes, it’s been 2 months and he’s off to a good start. He also contributed to a special broadcasting moment.

However, the objections to his signing were several. First, he was coming off a career year in a hitter’s park. Second, he plays a position that the Giants have in abundance – outfield. His signing keeps Nate Schierholtz in the minors. Third, the worry is that in the last part of the deal, he won’t be worth the money he’s making.

Everyone pretty much thought the team was going to suck anyway this year, next year and wouldn’t be competitive until 2010 at the soonest. I don’t think that diagnosis has changed. If Rowand starts sucking when the Giants are starting to get good again, he’ll be a major drag on the team. That’s speculation, of course, but we won’t know until then. It’s still way too early to say it was a great signing, though it has worked out for the first 2 months.

I don’t really see the “leadership” other than he’s hitting well and leading the team to more wins than it probably should have. But so are Lincecum and Brian Wilson. But if people who interact with him everyday say its there, I suppose you can’t argue with that. It is certainly not a tangible fact you can objectify.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on May 26, 2008 10:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Pedro Feliz would look great in Dodger Blue.

by irwin on May 26, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said. The MOST we can say now is: So far, so good.

And the other stuff we could say is well said already: nobody thought he would be terrible, but neither did everyone think he was the right player at this time for this team.

DFA all Giants over 34 years old.

by Mayor of 311 on May 26, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And one minor matter

It cost the Giants the 51st pick in the draft.

Pedro Feliz would look great in Dodger Blue.

by irwin on May 26, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Wilson?

Brian Wilson is leading the Giants to more wins than they should have? I realize he has saved 14 of 16 opportunities and lead the NL in saves. But he really hasn’t pitched well.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not anymore. Jose Valverde has 15. As for Wilson, we’ve been through the Wilson thing already. He’s been excellent in save situations, not very good in others.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 26, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not really excellent

more like “just good enough”

by Viliphied on May 26, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Corner OF is not the same as CF

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 26, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

freddie, roberts, winn, davis could all play CF

by Azmanz on May 26, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

badly

(except for davis, and maybe winn)

And none of them hit as well as Rowand

by Viliphied on May 26, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely object to the Rowand signing still

A) Why would what is clearly going to be one of the worst teams in baseball spend 60 million dollars over 5 years and give up its 2nd round pick for a player who does not change any of that in the near future, and who will only be a burden by the end of that contract?
B) Rowand certainly has been a better signing than Andruw Jones and probably better than Tori Hunter or even Fukudome at this point, and he’s certainly a better alternative than the Lincecum-for-Rios bullshit, but we are not a contending team so it really doesn’t matter how well Rowand does this year or next year. He could put up a 1.000 OPS this year and next, and we’re still going to struggle for 70 wins.
C) By the end of the contract, Rowand may have to play a corner. His .851 Zone Rating in Center is the 4th worst in all of baseball and his defense in my view is clearly over-rated.
D) While Rowand has been nice to watch this year, and Omar Vizquel is a lot better than the alternatives we had, I would have much rather spent that $17 million ($12 m for Rowand and $5 for Omar) on player development, kept our 2nd Round pick and gotten a Comp pick for Vizquel, who was a type B free agent; played Schierhotlz in RF and Winn in CF (with Davis in CF against lefties and Winn in RF, and Davis as a late-inning defensive replacement). Would our team be even worse this year and next year? Yes. Does it matter? No. Might we better in 4 years? Probably. I would much rather spend most of our money rebuilding and keeping all of our draft picks than going with expensive, marginal upgrades that will soon be on the decline. I would have much rather watched Nate Schierholtz and Rajai Davis sink or swim than watching another high-priced veteran on a team of high-priced veterans than doesn’t seem to win.

by mark30perq3 on May 26, 2008 12:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

Rowand in 2nd in the NL for CFs in RZR with .951. Not so good with OOZ plays though.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 26, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who would be?

Ooze is such a sticky, viscous substance that even the strongest man would have difficulty making plays in it.

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by Natto on May 26, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 26, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly understand the argument about the Rowand contract being a mistake because the team is so bad that he doesn’t make a difference, but should the Giants not try to win ANY games?? Should they actually put everything into player development and field a team that’s completely unwatchable?? Even if the Giants aren’t good thoughout the entire Rowand contract, I still like the signing. If I’m going to spend money on the team and stay awake till 2am eastern time watching them every night, they have to give me something!!

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on May 26, 2008 6:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i’m a little tired of Brian Sabean’s giving, personally.

Dave Roberts: 6.5 million to spend 3 months on the DL and take time from Fred Lewis when he is healthy.
Rich Aurilia: .724 OPS, 20 points the league average for 4.5 million
Randy Winn: .773 OPS, slightly above league average, for 8 milion
Steve Kline: 1.75 million to pitch for the Phillies 3A Team
Ray Durham: .738 OPS, below the league average, .712 zone rating, worst among all MLB 2B with 15 starts for 7.5 million
Barry Zito: 5.65 ERA, 1.4 runs above league average for 14.5 million
Omar Vizquel: 41 years old, can’t hit anymore, gets a 2 million dollar raise despite a huge drop-off in performance and costs us a top-50 pick by not letting someone else sign him after offering arbitrartion
Those signings are costing us 47 million dollars this year and have also cost us multiple draft picks yet we are still one of the worst teams in baseball with those players. So while Rowand has worked out for 2 months, the overall philosophy of spending millions of dollars on aging players and losing draft picks for marginal upgrades and even downgrades in most cases is clearly not working. And Nate Schierholtz would probably not be a huge downgrade, though he would not be as good as Rowand thus far. The worst part is listening to sabean complain about how much money the mets, yankees, red sox and dodgers put into player development, then hear him criticize that philosophy while he burns millions on an awful last place team while throwing away draft picks and short-changing our farm system. You could replace zito, rowand, winn, roberts, aurilia, kline, vizquel and durham with minor league players making the league minimum and we’d actually be just as bad, maybe a little worse now, equally devestating to watch but a hell of a lot better in the future.

by mark30perq3 on May 26, 2008 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, sorry

that’s half our position players, 2 of whom are above league average, 2 of whom are slightly below. The reason (most) minor leaguers are in the minors are because they cannot play at major league average caliber. I’ll give you schierholtz approximating league average, but we’d be looking at Lewis in CF, Ort in RF, Bowker trying to hit lefties at 1B and Velez/Denker at 2B, oh and Bocock/Burriss at SS. That’s an ugly lineup. Way uglier than we have now.

Let Schierholtz get regular ABs in Fresno, move Winn around the ASB, and hopefully Aurilia and/or Durham too, and we’re looking at about the same thing, but +3-4 Denker-level prospects.

by Viliphied on May 26, 2008 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, sorry

That assumes that we would not do anything else besides not pay millions of dollars for a crappy team. Free talent or players making $1 million or less has been available the last 2 years that Sabean has shown no interest in including Josh Hamilton (Rule V’d by Chicago then released and picked up by the Reds), Jack Cust, Dan Johnson, Mike Sweeney, Doug Mintkewicz, Sean Casey, Jorge Cantu, etc. However, assuming that we were stuck with Winn and Durham this year because of their contracts and that we offered arbitration to Vizquel in the hope of getting a draft pick and then replaced him through a trade for a blocked player or a waiver pick-up the line-up would actually be:

LF Lewis/Davis
2B Durham/Velez not Denker who couldn’t even hit .200 at AA
CF Winn
C Molina
RF Schierholtz
3B Castillo
1B Bowker/Aurilia
SS Player X (Barmes, Izturis, Everett, even Ochoa) not Bocock and Burris who should be at AA and High A respectively

While that team is not as good as the team we are currently watching we would have the #5 pick, 2 comp picks and our 2nd round pick still. We’d also have 17 million to spend in Latin America, going above slot in the draft and other player development acquisitions.
What would have been even better would have been to offer Durham arbitration last year and hope someone else signed him which would have given us 2 more high draft picks. Not signing Zito, Roberts and Aurilia would have allowed us to keep our 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks and saved us a ton of money. Free talent acquisitions for the league minimum like Josh Hamilton or Jack Cust would have been upgrades over Roberts and Winn.

by mark30perq3 on May 27, 2008 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Non-Competing

I still don’t agree with the notion that as we aren’t going to be competitive this year, there’s no point in signing good players as they aren’t going to do any good. There’s one thing non-competitive teams need in order to be competitive & that’s good quality players. You can’t just sit around & wait until you’re competitive before signing players because, firstly, you’re unlikely to be competitive with purely young players, and in the current climate of free agency, the players you want may never be available. That’s one (of a number) of the reasons, you see teams stuck at the bottom, year after year. The Tigers are probably the most oft-used example of a team rebuilding in that way. There are obvious caveats to make it worthwhile:

a) The player has to be good. There’s no point spending money on a load of average players, that’s the purpose of development. Rowand may not be able to keep his current level up, but he’s an above average player & a valuable player to have.

b) The player isn’t signed to a bad contract. When i first heard we were talking to Rowand, i was disappointed, because i felt we were going to overpay, but his contract is perfectly reasonable, so i was ok with the signing.

c) The player is old. There’s no point in signing mid-late thirties players who aren’t going to be around, or performing when you’re able to compete again. Rowand was 30, he may not be young, free agents never are, but he’s still young enough to be a useful player in a few years, when we should be able to compete.

d) The player isn’t blocking prospects who could perform equally or better in future. This isn’t the case for Rowand, the prospects we have in the outfield (Bowker, Schierholtz, Lewis, Ortmeier) are corner types, not centrefielders. The only prospect Rowand has blocked is Davis, and his ceiling is low, who’s never going to perform at the level of Rowand.

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on May 27, 2008 1:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I am not trying to negative here yet there are 3 highly possible violations of your own criteria here.

B – I would call it a better contract is Sabean had FRONT loaded it. Thus if we need to move him when he is older not a problem. And even if he stays good but is getting paid 8-10 million in his final couple years contending teams would be much more inclined to seek him out if their had injury or slump problems.

C – That has to be answered when we see what 12 million might have been used for in the off season’s of 2010 & 2011. A solid Journeyman catcher ? A nice shortstop? A legit first base bat? An arbitration eligible corner outfielder that a penny pinching franchise did not wish to pay? ( The later possibly involving the draft pick lost when we signed Rowand.)

D is an assumption on your part. What makes you so sure at age 33 or 34 Rowand’s legs and such will let him play Centerfield well and not be Dave Roberts ‘07 defensive center fielding model? It is entirely possible he would have to be moved to a corner outfield spot.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 27, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

B)

Yes, if the Giants had front loaded the contract, Rowand would be more desirable as a trade commodity in the future. But, if they had front load the contract, they would actually have to pay Rowand that money now, instead of investing it, or using it on other players. If you front load the contract, the real monetary value of the contract increases.

C) A legit 1b bat for $12M? Seriously? Name him. Arby eligible corner OF from a penny pinching franchise? Which prospects are you going to trade? The draft pick lost when signing Rowand typically, on average, turns into a Jose Castillo type player.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 27, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

B)

Yes, if the Giants had front loaded the contract, Rowand would be more desirable as a trade commodity in the future. But, if they had front load the contract, they would actually have to pay Rowand that money now, instead of investing it, or using it on other players. If you front load the contract, the real monetary value of the contract increases.

C) A legit 1b bat for $12M? Seriously? Name him. Arby eligible corner OF from a penny pinching franchise? Which prospects are you going to trade? The draft pick lost when signing Rowand typically, on average, turns into a Jose Castillo type player.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 27, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On B-

If the contract is front loaded the team also regains some flexibility and basically "investing" that money in a better quality product down the road. Front loaded is not as ideal for flexiblity as over paying but for less years but it is there and it would be lining up more of the teams recourses in a the window they can use it on a more hopeful season. So instead of pay Zito and Rowand 30 mil in 2010 maybe its 25 million. Its not like 4 million dollars right now is going to make the ‘08, or ‘09, play off bound. But it could be for the 2010 & 2011 clubs.

On the pick mentioned in C)-

Castillo had some decent buzz in his first couple years as a pro. Not a player you get away with doing a 1 for 1 type trade but stack him with a couple other team controlled pieces and a penny pincher club might be interested. And the main point in the above post was it is no way an option now because the team has already spent the pick along with the money.

As for what 12 million with buy in a couple off seasons – Who the hell knows what will be there to be gotten and what the team will need? What we do know is we now is the team doesn’t have the 12 million and the prospect to be flexible with and has gained a player that could very likely be playing a corner outfield spot by that time.

Man I hope that last sentance does not turn out to be right.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 27, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With regards to front-loading the contract, rfloh has made some comments. Due to inflation, paying Rowand money in a few years time, is actually less money, than it would be if we paid him it now. Also, if we wanted to trade him, we could just eat those extra dollars & have the same effect (with the bonus as mentioned) In the current climate of back-loaded contracts, an even contract like Rowands is actually front-loaded in it’s own way.

With regards to the $12M spent elsewhere, the key is value for money. With inflation, it’s unlikely $12M is going to get you more then that it gets you now, which isn’t actually that much, it’s about Rowand’s market value. Also if you want to spend it elsehwere, then you’re got a hole in your team at CF, unless you viewed Davis as the long term answer. If we end up wanting to use it elsewhere, then we can always trade him, which is another reason it’s important not to overpay.

With regards to him being able to still play centrefield in a few years, then that’s a valid point, although i’d imagine his chances of being better than Roberts in the field are good. Also, his bat is decent enough, unlike Roberts, that he could still have some value at the corner outfield spots. Although obviously then he’s competing with our other outfielders, but then that leaves good trade options.

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on May 27, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is an excellent checklist for a bad team to have in mind when considering free agents. But like Dave, I tend to think Rowand violates A, B, and maybe C (age is relative) as well as D.

Erratic track record, injury history, inability to control the strike zone, plummeting speed indicators … Rowand was/is a very risky player to be signing to a long-term contract, the sort that tends to fall apart in his early 30s. Pecota, for instance, projects Rowand to be a pretty marginal player as soon as next year. So far Pecota looks stupid, but that doesn’t necessarily make Sabean smart.

by Evan on May 27, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you believe he violates A & B? He’s an above average player (even ignoring defence) & whilst his contract isn’t great, it’s pretty much market value or below. Is it based on deteriation rather than current level? Also, with regards to D, what prospects do you see him blocking?

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on May 27, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly I thought this diary was about Aaron Rowand’s illegitimate child.

Anyway, topic. I don’t hate Rowand at all, which is a big step up from my initial reaction to the signing. That’s a pretty good deal, to me.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 27, 2008 7:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying

we should sign more centerfielders?

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on May 27, 2008 10:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

you talk as if there is anything of vaulue other then center fielders.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 27, 2008 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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