i learned something tonight while listening to the grizzlies game
by bacci40 on May 23, 2008 2:20 AM PDT
Email
PrintDuring the game, doug mentioned that his sister would be doing a book signing at the park on the 31st.
So i googled Kellie Greenwald, and this is what i found:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=view_from_the_bay/everything_else&id=6017096
While Kellie may have Down Syndrome, she has her father's and her brother's gift of gab.
It still bugs me that Hank is no longer with the org, most likely due to baer, and that Doug may never get a shot to do pbp outside of st for possibly the same reason.
I know that this post has little to do with the goings on, on the field...just thought i would share.
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Doug Greenwald
Doug is a genuinely nice guy. When he comes through town with the Grizzlies, we always spend some time together talking baseball. I’ve not met a nicer announcer anywhere.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
Sorry, I never liked Hank Greenwald as an announcer. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, but aren’t they all?? The Giants have the best crew in all of baseball with Kuiper, Kruk, Miller and Flemming. If you’re not great, you look even worse when you’re on the air with these guys.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
Funny, I loved Hank. Thought he was a great announcer. I agree, the Giants’ do have a very good crew, without a lot of homerism. Krukow does occasionally dive me up a wall, however. Anytime an opposing player has a good game against the Giants, Krukow talks about him as though he’s the second coming of Jebus, Babe Ruth, Cy Young, and Budda all rolled into one.
I moved here when Greenwald was the announcer, so didn’t grow up with him or anything. I thought he was good, but nothing really special. I did like his relaxed delivery. I don’t know the circumstances of his ouster.
That said, I do agree that Jon Miller is a major upgrade. If they got rid of Hank to get Jon, it was the right decision (akin to replacing Sherry Davis with Renel). Millers descriptions, pipes, sense of humor and ability to engage broadcast partners makes him the best announcer I’ve heard in any sport. Kruk and Kuip make a great team.
On a somewhat related note, I also thought Greg Papa was brilliant when I moved up here and heared him do Warriors games. I know he’s not popular here with a lot of people, but I still think he’s pretty good at baseball nad football, too.
I’m also a big Ted Robinson fan and wish KNBR would dump Ralph and give Ted the job with Tolbert. Ted actually listens to what callers and guests have to say instead of just thinking about what he’s going to say.
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
Greg Papa is very good at the basketball and football broadcasting. I recognized him first at the guy who did Raider games on the radio.
And I also like Ted Robinson. But I liked Joe Angel too. I know I’m the only one.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 23, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I used to hear alot of bad things about Ted Robinson from Giant fans, so when he came here to become the Mets’ announcer I was expecting him to be terrible. Not only was he good, but because of his Giants’ ties, he talked about them alot during Mets’ games, which was great for me. He grew up a Mets’ fan on Long Island and being the Mets’ announcer was his lifelong dream, so I felt bad for him when he was fired for refusing to give up his second job as a tennis commentator. The Mets were starting their own network and decided they wanted a full committment from all their announcers.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
Some people
Some people just don’t like Ted Robinson—perhaps because he has a somewhat squeaky voice. But I find him to be pretty darn knowledgeable, and that helps me overcome any questions about his voice.
Yep. Give me someone who knows what he’s talking about and I’m good.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 24, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Chirpy. The word is 'chirpy.'
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on May 26, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
But I liked Joe Angel too. I know I’m the only one.
You just might be. I didn’t listen to many games when he was calling them. I could not stand him at all.
I like Ted – he’s much better than Papa. He’s also quite good on the call-in shows.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on May 24, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
One would think
One would think I could have gotten behind Joe Angel, given that my best friend used to date Joe’s wife (before she became Joes’ wife, I might add :). But the second time around, in particular, he just seemed to me to be little phoney and too cute.
I did love the story about Joe’s first round with the Giants though. He had just been hired and watching the pre-game practice in spring training when Lon Simmons brought Joe down a phone with a message that the station manager wanted to talk to him RIGHT NOW.
Since this was long before cell phones, Lon handed Joe an ordinary receiver, perhaps still with rotary dial. Joe, fearful that his job might be ended almost before it started, took the phone, mustered up his courage and spoke into the receiver, “Hello… Hello … HELLO!”
Not only was the station manager not on the line, the phone line - since it wasn’t plugged in anywhere - was dead. Suddenly Joe realized he had been had—to the delight of Lon and all the fans who were lucky enough to be there.
I guess I should like Joe just because he put up with that. But I just didn’t. No “Adios pelota!” for me.
Greg Papa...
That’ just made me think lower of you Goof. You used to be up here but now…you’re down here.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
Howwie..
Stop hacking into Goofus’ account again. Remember what happened last time? People thought Goofus had gone on meds to help him.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
Hey man
If that was me I definitely would have made it more obvious that I was grabbing my crotch.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Hank
I actually liked Hank a lot as an announcer. You are right that the Giants have a marvelous crew now, but in the past they have had Lon Simmons, Al Michaels, Russ Hodges, Bill King and Lindsey Nelson, as well as Hank.
Of course, they’ve also had Bill Brown, Joe Angel and Tim McCarver—the last of whom I found to be badly ill-prepared.
By the way, Hank’s best feature was his humor. He could make a bad Giants’ game interesting—and had plenty of opportunity through the years to do so.
Nice Story
Thanks for posting this story. Take the time to view the video – it is inspiring.
I agree with you on Miller...
Best in the business, and with his national exposure I think he gets into the Hall of Fame someday.
Overall, the team of Miller, Kruk and Kuip, and Flem is hands down the best I have heard. I have lived in SoCal and while Scully is good, I’m sorry but I find his nasally voice a bit irritating. I have caught some Padres games and found the broadcasts to be totally nondescript. When I travel, I like to listen to the local game when I can, even if only to find out how the Giants are doing. Having been spoiled by our own broadcasters, I almost find the other teams’ homerism, bland banter, and unexciting play-by-play to be unlistenable
by baseballjunkie on May 23, 2008 12:32 PM PDT reply actions
how long have you been listening to Vincent Scully?
The game of baseball, especially in Los Angeles, have been blessed to have had the good fortune to listen to the likes of Vin Scully and Dick Enberg.
Scully is a great broadcaster...
don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against his skill as a broadcaster, I just don’t like his voice much. Unlike how I feel about Ralph Barbieri, where both the voice and the words attached to it drive me up the wall… but that’s another story!
by baseballjunkie on May 23, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Scully is not the man he once was
At one time, I’m sure he could go toe to toe with anybody in a booth, but today Jon Miller is far and away his superior.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point
Vince Scully may well be the best baseball broadcaster EVER—but Jon would seem to be his superior now. And of course, Vince always enjoyed being able to broadcast those games under the bright, cerrulian skies. Perhaps even during night games. :)
“I have caught some Padres games and found the broadcasts to be totally nondescript.”
That’s the nicest thing I’ve ever heard said about the Padres broadcasts.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 23, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
I can’t stand those guys. (Well, Mark Grant is okay, until he starts whining for strikes.)
by GiantsFanInExile on May 23, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
I don’t see how Jon could NOT get into the Hall. He’s a fabulous announcer, and as you said, gets national exposure (which his wife may not be in favor of). :) Actually, is Jon married?
Damn
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Errr… I mean… hmmm… I was speaking on behalf of my lady friends…?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it just me or is John Miller bordering on annoying during his national ESPN broadcasts? For some reason I have a hard time watching him do national games but I love him on the radio.
Was watching a broadcast a few weeks ago where Jon said something about Dustin Pedroia being “fleet footed.” One of my friends, a Boston fan, asked wtf he was talking about and said, “silly naive ESPN broadcasters.”
I bristled at the “naive” part and that she would group Jon in with the dreck in that station’s employ. Still, I’ll take her word for it that Pedroia is not fast and therefore, Jon made a boo-boo. I did make a joke and say perhaps he confused Pedroia with an actual squirrel, dashing to avoid oncoming traffic.
So I don’t know. I still think Jon is a professional every day of his life and everyone’s allowed to make mistakes. But that Pedroia remark is a very un-Jon-like thing to say.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 23, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
It could be that Miller was being mildy sarcastic
and your friend’s sarcasm detector needs to be adjusted.
I admit that I’m an extremist Miller fan, and he’s my favourite sports announcer.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Oh noes! We fell into the sarchasm!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 23, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I know what you mean
I don’t get annoyed by him, but it seems like Miller hold backs a little, does things differently, or even dumbs down for the national broadcast. Perhaps it’s because he’s dealing with a broader audience rather than Giants fans. Or maybe it’s the company he’s keeping.
The impression I always get from listening to Sunday night baseball
Is of a very quick person paired with a very slow person in a three legged race. To avoid injuring both of them, the quick person must slow himself down a little bit closer to the pace of his partner.
Only 924 games until the end of Zito's contract
I always just thought that ESPN has stricter (stupider) regulations for broadcasting conduct, and that it takes away a lot of what makes Miller great.
For instance, I just assumed that ESPN didn’t want Miller doing his impressions, or telling tangential jokes, or being particularly thoughtful. Funny thing, I never blamed Jon’s shortcomings on national broadcasts on Jon. I assumed it HAD to be the station he was working for.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 2:52 AM PDT up reply actions
If you were stuck in a booth with Joe Morgan, don’t you think your IQ would drop a few hundred points as well?!?
Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.
by PacBellBoozer on May 24, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Joe Morgan has forgotten more about baseball than Jon Miller ever will know. Why all the hatin’ on Morgan?
Joe Morgan
Was one of the best second basemen ever. He knows a lot about playing second base. Unfortunately, he’s not nearly as good of an announcer. The problem, as with many former players, is they are a product of their environment. Joe Morgan has very obvious biases. Middle infielders, manufacturing runs, no modern day team can possibly as good as his Big Red Machine Reds (hence his constant mentioning of there being no “great” teams). In addition, while Joe knows what he knows and he knows it well, he is absolutely clueless when it comes to things he does not know. Just because a person played the game (hall-of-fame level or not) does not mean that they are an expert on the game.
The worst part, however, is he makes no effort whatsoever to learn about the things that he does not know. When you say on air that Billy Beane wrote Moneyball, that’s bad announcing. As an announcer, he should know that or not mention it. I don’t listen to Sunday Night Baseball very often, but every time I do Joe is constantly saying things that aren’t very bright and Jon is always trying to bail him out. And, Howie might also be correct in that Jon can’t completely be himself, which makes it more difficult for Jon to bail him out. To make matters worse, Joe quite obviously gets upset when he is contradicted, even when it is gently or jokingly done. I was listening (last Sunday I believe) and Joe mentioned the great play by the second baseman and then when Jon mentioned the good scoop by the first baseman Joe said “Well, that’s his job.” As if it’s not the second baseman’s job to make the play he made. (I believe it was Robinson Cano and Jason Giambi). Jon decided to make a little running joke of it and Joe was very obviously annoyed that he was being disagreed with (even though the joking tone was very obvious).
Anyway, I don’t hate Joe Morgan as some do. It’s just very obvious that he’s not nearly as good at what he does as Jon Miller. And he’s got some very obvious failings.
Only 923 games until the end of Zito's contract
I believe it is deeper than that. I believe many people do not like the fact that Morgan has not embrace the Moneyball theory. Many people think there is no such thing as productive outs or that bunts are useless. I would love to see Morgan become a manager one day. Just about every time I watch a game and Morgan is announcing I learn something.
I don't know if it's deeper for others or not
But I was talking about myself there. Many of my points are brought up by others but I just laid out my case for not really liking Joe.
And not embracing the Moneyball philosophy, well, that is part of it. But not because he hasn’t embraced it. It’s because he did not really study it. He did not read Moneyball, he does not understand the philosophy. He just rejected it out of hand because it ran counter to the way he used to play the game and was therefore “wrong.” That is why his not embracing “Moneyball” annoys me. Not because he disagrees but because he disagrees without even understanding it. He’s part of that supremely annoying school in baseball that is irrationally antagonistic towards sabermetrics just because it runs counter to their thinking.
Incidentally, before this becomes an argument over sabermetrics, I actually do think there is something as a productive out. So I do not have a stake in this race.
Only 923 games until the end of Zito's contract
Bunts aren't useless
They’re just for weenies.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe many people do not like the fact that Morgan has not embrace the Moneyball theory.
Morgan does not understand the Moneyball theory. He’s never tried to understand it.
Have you ever heard him make a logical argument against the Moneyball theory (by the way, the Moneyball theory = purchasing undervalued players in order to compete with richer teams, but I assume you mean OBP+SLG-[Bunts + SB])? It’s not that there aren’t any arguments to be made against it. Morgan just can’t make them, because he has no idea what the book is about.
When asked about it in one of his ESPN chats, he said “It’s typical if you write a book, you want to be a hero. That is apparently what Beane has done.” Even though people sent in letters pointing out that Beane did not write Moneyball, a week later someone asked what would Joe do to improve the A’s, if he were Beane, and Joe replied “I wouldn’t be Billy Beane first of all! I wouldn’t write the book Moneyball!”. Joe has never even been close enough to the book in order to see the words Michael Lewis written in huge red letters.
There’s disagreeing with a theory, an then there’s not making any effort to understand a theory while criticizing it constantly on national T.V.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Ooooh, this reminds me of an Amazon controversy, where this lady had given something a damning review obviously without reading it (actually admitting to not reading it).
The awesome thing about this story is that thousands of people went on Amazon and reviewed her book with one star reviews essentially saying “I haven’t read this book, but it sucks” in their reviews. Sometimes people are awesome. Sometimes they’re not. But in this case they were.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 25, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you referring to the lady who mouthed off on Mass Effect despite never touching the game?
http://kotaku.com/348355/quack-gets-amazon-book-rating-spammed
YES
That’s the thing.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 26, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
So then by “reading” it, I clearly meant “playing, looking at, or thinking about.”
I would say that potato potahto thing to comically brush this off, but nobody ever says potahto anyway, so what’s the point?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 26, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
And Jon Miller forgot more about broadcasting during yesterday’s pre-game show than Joe Morgan has ever known. The booth is a different game.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Regardless, knowing about baseball and knowing how to talk “to” an audience about baseball are two significantly different things. Morgan has great baseball knowledge. However, he has a very poor ability to speak about it in a broadcasting context.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 24, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Joe
I like Joe (although I often disagree with him). But I like Jon better.
Jon makes Joe Morgan the star of the show
Jon, as the play-by-play guy and the non-HOFer is making Joe Morgan the star of the show. That’s not what he does when doing his regular duties w/Giants. So on the ESPN cablecasts, he tones it down quite a lot, doesn’t do impressions, tell the great stories, hold court in his inimitable fashion. As with others, I really dislike Joe Morgan as an announcer and wish Jon were the star of the show, but that’s the role he’s playing in those games.
Joe Morgan is like lots of former stars who commentate on their sports many years later. Dick Button was one of the superstar figure skaters when he was skating, but that was a long time ago. He continued announcing world championships and Olympics many years after the #300 skater in the world could do a triple axel, but he could never give the current skaters their due. His last few Olympics were just hilarious, because he was so hypercritical of things that were unthinkable when he was skating. That guy was a b-i-t-c-h bitch. I put Joe Morgan in the same category as an announcer. Good guy, I’m sure, and I respect the litigation he has undertaken about being mistreated for his color, and certainly one of the handful of best 2b’s in history. But that doesn’t make someone an intelligent analyst of the current game or even a good analyst of the whole game even when he played.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on May 26, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Years ago
Years ago my dad baby-sat for Kellie along with the Speier kids during spring training when Kellie was attending the Speiers’ Christian school that they started. Hank actually sent a note to my mom when my dad died. And the two Speier kids next in age behind Justin flew up from Scottsdale for my dad’s funeral.
The other day I came across a very surprising “autograph” from Justin. It was on a ball given by Chris to my dad for his birthday many years ago. The kids all signed it too, including the printed signature - all caps - of “JUSTIN.”
I’m sure my dad got along great with Kellie Greenwald. He was one of those rare individuals who had a way with kids, even being able to get crying babies in church to be silent merely by holding them. I have no idea how he did it. I couldn’t even get my OWN kids to stop crying. :)
My pleasure
It was my pleasure to share this story—although I apologize about its becoming more about my dad than about Kellie. Then again, I knew my dad a lot better than Kellie, whom I’ve never had the pleasure to meet.
I did once have a neighbor with Downs Syndrome. She and I became great pals, and she will always remain “Kiddo” to me. I was “smarter” than she—but she was happier than I.
this was supposed to be about kellie
so i apologize for the editorial on hank…but i grew up mostly with hank, and when the team was really bad, the team of hank and al michaels consistently kept the listeners entertained
of course, no one was greater than lon
there is a reason why hank never made it in nyc…he refused to do the homer stuff….the fans there hated that
but again, this post really shouldve been only about kelly, and the amazing job that hank, his wife and doug did in helping her to progress to where she is today
as they note, the most important thing to do if one has a down syndrome child is to make sure that the child is stimulated from almost day one…as they did with kellie
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